Search FQXi

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Contests Home

Previous Contests

What Is “Fundamental”
October 28, 2017 to January 22, 2018
Sponsored by the Fetzer Franklin Fund and The Peter & Patricia Gruber Foundation

Wandering Towards a Goal
How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?
December 2, 2016 to March 3, 2017
Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.

Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics
Contest Partners: Nanotronics Imaging, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, and The John Templeton Foundation
Media Partner: Scientific American

How Should Humanity Steer the Future?
January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014
Contest Partners: Jaan Tallinn, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, The John Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American

It From Bit or Bit From It
March 25 - June 28, 2013
Contest Partners: The Gruber Foundation, J. Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American

Questioning the Foundations
Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?
May 24 - August 31, 2012
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, SubMeta, and Scientific American

Is Reality Digital or Analog?
November 2010 - February 2011
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation and Scientific American

What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?
May - October 2009
Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams

The Nature of Time
August - December 2008

Forum Home
Introduction

Order posts by:
chronological order
most recent first

Posts by the author are highlighted in orange; posts by FQXi Members are highlighted in blue.

RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

ari saaput: on 7/17/18 at 16:36pm UTC, wrote Teripang lautObat Kencing Nanah memang sengaja dijadikan sebagai bahan...

Dalibor Stys: on 7/21/10 at 5:56am UTC, wrote The think which I like on the approach of applying non-linear dynamics as...

Tobias Fritz: on 10/23/09 at 14:32pm UTC, wrote Dear William, thank you for sharing your ideas. It's an intriguing...

William McHarris: on 10/22/09 at 17:34pm UTC, wrote Dear Stephan Wechbach, Thanks for your comments — and especially for the...

Robert Oldershaw: on 10/19/09 at 3:21am UTC, wrote NM, Let me clarify. In the quotation of d'E-nat which you posted, the...

Nick Mann: on 10/18/09 at 19:51pm UTC, wrote DAMN. That's McHARRIS. Maximum apology.

Nick Mann: on 10/18/09 at 19:50pm UTC, wrote RLO, I think Bd'E is more than a knee-jerk sycophant and I'm sure Dr....

Robert Oldershaw: on 10/18/09 at 17:55pm UTC, wrote Greetings NM, I would say the Bernard d'Espagnat cannot think outside the...

RECENT FORUM POSTS

Steve Agnew: "There are some questions that do not seem to have answers in the classical..." in Schrödinger’s Zombie:...

Steve Agnew: "Yes, there are two very different narratives. The classical narrative works..." in Schrödinger’s Zombie:...

Joe Fisher: "Today’s Closer To Truth Facebook page contained this peculiar piece of..." in First Things First: The...

Steve Dufourny: "lol no indeed it is not a lot,like I said I liked your general ideas.I have..." in The Demon in the Machine...

Steve Agnew: "There are three assumptions...is that a lot? The aether particle mass, the..." in The Demon in the Machine...

Steve Dufourny: "Joe,so lol you speak to God or it has send you this information lol ?..." in First Things First: The...

RECENT ARTICLES

First Things First: The Physics of Causality
Why do we remember the past and not the future? Untangling the connections between cause and effect, choice, and entropy.

Can Time Be Saved From Physics?
Philosophers, physicists and neuroscientists discuss how our sense of time’s flow might arise through our interactions with external stimuli—despite suggestions from Einstein's relativity that our perception of the passage of time is an illusion.

Thermo-Demonics
A devilish new framework of thermodynamics that focuses on how we observe information could help illuminate our understanding of probability and rewrite quantum theory.

Gravity's Residue
An unusual approach to unifying the laws of physics could solve Hawking's black-hole information paradox—and its predicted gravitational "memory effect" could be picked up by LIGO.

Could Mind Forge the Universe?
Objective reality, and the laws of physics themselves, emerge from our observations, according to a new framework that turns what we think of as fundamental on its head.

FQXi FORUM
October 13, 2019

CATEGORY: What's Ultimately Possible in Physics? Essay Contest (2009) [back]
TOPIC: Chaos and the Quantum: Limits of Physics Involving the Physics of Limits by William C. McHarris [refresh]

Author William C. McHarris wrote on Oct. 2, 2009 @ 16:16 GMT
Essay Abstract

Nonlinear dynamics and chaos theory promise to change the way we think about nature, for nonlinear systems are the rule rather than the exception. Some of the counter-intuitive aspects of nonlinear dynamics show striking similarities to those of quantum mechanics. I show that certain paradoxes produced by the orthodox Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics have parallels in nonlinear dynamics and chaos. Thus, deterministic chaos could provide a bridge between the determinism so dear to Einstein and the statistics of Bohr's interpretations. Nonlinear dynamics and chaos involve infinite limits and conditional probabilities, so perhaps the progress of physics involves a deeper intuitive understanding of these.

Author Bio

With a B.A. from Oberlin College and a Ph.D. from the University of California, Berkeley, I went immediately to Michigan State University with a joint appointment between the Chemistry and Physics/Astronomy Departments. For some 35 years I was a practicing nuclear chemist/physicist at the National Superconducting Cyclotron Laboratory, first working primarily in experimental nuclear spectroscopy and progressing toward more theoretical topics such as the weak interaction. About eight years ago I found chaos theory and chaos theory found me, and I have been working with it ever since, trying to fathom a possible connection with quantum mechanics.

Stefan Weckbach wrote on Oct. 3, 2009 @ 09:38 GMT
Dear William C. McHarris,

i thought a long time about possible connections between deterministic chaos and quantum mechanics. I saw some similarities in the behaviour of fractal structures, especially in form of the attractor. That attractor in every fractal pattern led me to the conclusion that for example the interference-pattern in the double-slit experiment with single photons could be...

view entire post

report post as inappropriate

Florin Moldoveanu wrote on Oct. 4, 2009 @ 02:39 GMT
Dear William,

As a former nonlinear dynamics practitioner, I had enjoyed your essay very much. Did you consider ‘t Hooft’s approach of deriving QM as an emergent theory from a chaotic deterministic theory?

Regards,

Florin

report post as inappropriate

Robert L. Oldershaw wrote on Oct. 4, 2009 @ 02:45 GMT
Have you seen Tim Plamer's work on invariant sets, fractal attractors and QM?

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0812/0812.1148.pdf

A nice laymen's version of the arguments is given in the excellent book by Ian Stewart entitled "Does God Play Dice?"

Yours in science,

RL Oldershaw

www.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw

http://arxiv.org/a/oldershaw_r_1

report post as inappropriate

Robert L. Oldershaw wrote on Oct. 4, 2009 @ 02:49 GMT
Oops, that's Tim Palmer.

report post as inappropriate

Stefan Weckbach wrote on Oct. 8, 2009 @ 09:29 GMT
Dear William C. McHarris,

there is a brand new paper about experimental results concerning chaos and quantum mechanics. It is titled "Butterfly effect gets entangled: Chaotic behaviour emerges from quantum entanglement" and can be found under the breaking news as a twitter-link in the fqxi-community.

Perhaps it could be of interest for your topic.

Best,

Stefan Weckbach

report post as inappropriate

J.C.N. Smith wrote on Oct. 12, 2009 @ 15:23 GMT
Mr. McHarris,

Thank you for an interesting, well written, thought-provoking essay.

Fwiw, there's another nice treatment of the so-called Monte Hall Paradox in 'The Drunkard's Walk: How Randomness Rules Our Lives' by Leonard Mlodinow.

Cheers

report post as inappropriate

Nick Mann wrote on Oct. 13, 2009 @ 14:39 GMT
Dr. McHarris,

Very interesting.

Are you familiar with the work of Arjendu Pattanayak? Good stuff at Arxiv.

I love this understated (you could almost say tongue-in-cheek) take by the Templeton Prize's own Bernard d'Espagnat (quote):

Hence, to sum up, contrary to a view that seems to be widespread it appears that whoever considers himself to be an adept of objectivist realism cannot logically claim that the phenomena related to chaos violate determinism just because they are "chaotic." Let it however immediately be added that, anyhow, such considerations are, to a large extent, academic since they bear on classical physics and its laws. It is well known that, at the level of anything that might deserve the name "ultimate reality" or even just that of "microscopic reality," these laws are violated (we know that, at the microscopic level, only the quantum ones are correct). Elementary as it is, this observation severely diminishes the pertinence of the, sometimes uttered, statement according to which the advent of the theory of chaos constitutes one of the most important conceptual upheavals that ever took place in physics. But of course this is not to say that the theory in question is uninteresting as far as basic ideas are concerned. Quite on the contrary it has the considerable interest of showing that within classical physics there are phenomena that imitate intrinsically random ones to such an extent that they are operationally indistinguishable from the latter. ("On Physics and Philosophy" page 319)

report post as inappropriate

Robert L. Oldershaw wrote on Oct. 18, 2009 @ 17:55 GMT
Greetings NM,

I would say the Bernard d'Espagnat cannot think outside the quantum box.

His theoretical assumptions, derived from a thoroughly heuristic quantum mechanics and dubiously interpreted experiments, may be acceptable to the current crop of theoretical physicists, but I do not think they will hold up in the near future.

Nonlinear dynamical systems theory will eventually explain all the "weirdness" of quantum mechanics in a manner that is fully causal and deterministic. The revolution is already well underway.

RLO

www.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw

report post as inappropriate

Nick Mann wrote on Oct. 18, 2009 @ 19:50 GMT
RLO,

I think Bd'E is more than a knee-jerk sycophant and I'm sure Dr. McHenry with his declared respect for both Bell and Aspect would agree. Also unless I'm mistaken Espagnat's the guy who first realized Bell's inequality can be experimentally tested in the macroworld and without violation. That requires a certain offbeat imagination, indeed evinces a refreshing playfulness. Even demonstrates a mild readiness to flirt with danger.

report post as inappropriate

Nick Mann wrote on Oct. 18, 2009 @ 19:51 GMT
DAMN. That's McHARRIS.

Maximum apology.

report post as inappropriate

Robert L. Oldershaw wrote on Oct. 19, 2009 @ 03:21 GMT
NM,

Let me clarify.

In the quotation of d'E-nat which you posted, the sentence beginning; "It is well known..." is fatuous and unscientific in its arrogant assumptions that the Aspect-type experiments of Bell's inequality theorems are fully understood and definitively explained.

There are serious scientists, like Tim Palmer and J. Christian, among many others, including Dr. Mc Harris, who have published radically different assessments.

For d'E-nat to summarily dismiss nonlinear dynamical systems theory as a fundamental approach to understanding atoms and quantum "weirdness" is quite regrettable. I predict that he will be forced to revise his opinions considerably in the next 10 years, or less.

Yours in science,

RLO

www.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw

report post as inappropriate

Author William C. McHarris wrote on Oct. 22, 2009 @ 17:34 GMT
Dear Stephan Wechbach,

Thanks for your comments — and especially for the reference to the Nature news and article, "The Butterfly Effect Gets Entangled." It is heartwarming to find some experimental verification of chaotic effects in quantum systems, especially since the kicked top has been so thoroughly studied in classical chaos.

I also liked your comments about the Monty Hall problem. I think the so-called counter-intuitiveness of the problem starts to go away as one increases the number of doors, such that by the time the number becomes large, the probability of winning does approach 1. This is covered rather well in the Wikipedia entry on the Monty Hall Problem, where also a formal Bayesian treatment is given. There are links there as well to several papers on quantum versions of the Monty Hall problem, probably the best being the paper by D'Ariano et al.

Cheers,

Bill McHarris

Member Tobias Fritz wrote on Oct. 23, 2009 @ 14:32 GMT
Dear William,

thank you for sharing your ideas. It's an intriguing observation that the emergence of a discrete number of modes in nonlinear dynamics resemble the discretenss of observables in quantum theory. (Although note that the reason why the Tacoma Narrows bridge collapsed was in fact not resonance, but a self-exiciting oscillation.) Also the universality that you mention is present...

view entire post

this post has been edited by the forum administrator

report post as inappropriate

Dalibor Stys wrote on Jul. 21, 2010 @ 05:56 GMT
The think which I like on the approach of applying non-linear dynamics as hidden variable theory for quantum mechanics is the fact that then it would be rather general theory. For example, most systems biologists already accepted that limit cycles lie behind the stability of intracellular metabolism. Equally well population biologists work similarly, the metheorologists as well, many astronomers, economists .... In case that molecules are stable for the same reasons we may be approaching new universal theory.

report post as inappropriate

ari putri saaput wrote on Jul. 17, 2018 @ 16:36 GMT
Teripang lautObat Kencing Nanah memang sengaja dijadikan sebagai bahan utama, sebab di dalam teripang laut terkandung banyak kandungan dan senyawa alami yang semuanya sangat bermanfaat untuk sembuhkan masalah kencing nanah atau gonore ini. Beberapa kandungan dan senyawa alami yang ada di dalam teripang laut ini diantaranya adalah :

Mineral.

Asam DHA.

Kolagen.

Antiseptik alami.

Gamapeptide.

Protein.Obat Kencing Nanah Di Apotik

Chondroitin.

Mukopolisakarida.

Glikosida kertatin.

Asam amino.OBAT KENCING NANAH HERBAL

Omega 3, 6, 9.

Cell growth factor.

Glucosaminoglycans.

Philinopside A OBAT GONORE DI APOTIKdan B.

Lektin.

Itulah beberapa kandungan dan senyawa alami teripang laut yang merupakan bahan utama QnC Jelly Gamat sebagai obat kencing nanah (gonore).

report post as inappropriate