If you are aware of an interesting new academic paper (that has been published in a peer-reviewed journal or has appeared on the arXiv), a conference talk (at an official professional scientific meeting), an external blog post (by a professional scientist) or a news item (in the mainstream news media), which you think might make an interesting topic for an FQXi blog post, then please contact us at forums@fqxi.org with a link to the original source and a sentence about why you think that the work is worthy of discussion. Please note that we receive many such suggestions and while we endeavour to respond to them, we may not be able to reply to all suggestions.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Contests Home

Current Essay Contest

*Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams*

Previous Contests

**Wandering Towards a Goal**

How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?

*December 2, 2016 to March 3, 2017*

Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.

read/discuss • winners

**Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics**

*Contest Partners: Nanotronics Imaging, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, and The John Templeton Foundation*

Media Partner: Scientific American

read/discuss • winners

**How Should Humanity Steer the Future?**

*January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014*

*Contest Partners: Jaan Tallinn, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, The John Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**It From Bit or Bit From It**

*March 25 - June 28, 2013*

*Contest Partners: The Gruber Foundation, J. Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**Questioning the Foundations**

Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?

*May 24 - August 31, 2012*

*Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, SubMeta, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**Is Reality Digital or Analog?**

*November 2010 - February 2011*

*Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?**

*May - October 2009*

*Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams*

read/discuss • winners

**The Nature of Time**

*August - December 2008*

read/discuss • winners

Current Essay Contest

Previous Contests

How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?

Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.

read/discuss • winners

Media Partner: Scientific American

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

Forum Home

Introduction

Terms of Use

RSS feed | RSS help

Introduction

Terms of Use

*Posts by the author are highlighted in orange; posts by FQXi Members are highlighted in blue.*

RSS feed | RSS help

RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

RECENT FORUM POSTS

**Thomas Ray**: "(reposted in correct thread) Lorraine, Nah. That's nothing like my view...."
*in* 2015 in Review: New...

**Lorraine Ford**: "Clearly “law-of-nature” relationships and associated numbers represent..."
*in* Physics of the Observer -...

**Lee Bloomquist**: "Information Channel. An example from Jon Barwise. At the workshop..."
*in* Physics of the Observer -...

**Lee Bloomquist**: "Please clarify. I just tried to put a simple model of an observer in the..."
*in* Alternative Models of...

**Lee Bloomquist**: "Footnote...for the above post, the one with the equation existence =..."
*in* Alternative Models of...

**Thomas Ray**: "In fact, symmetry is the most pervasive physical principle that exists. ..."
*in* “Spookiness”...

**Thomas Ray**: "It's easy to get wound around the axle with black hole thermodynamics,..."
*in* “Spookiness”...

**Joe Fisher**: "It seems to have escaped Wolpert’s somewhat limited attention that no two..."
*in* Inferring the Limits on...

RECENT ARTICLES

*click titles to read articles*

**The Complexity Conundrum**

Resolving the black hole firewall paradox—by calculating what a real astronaut would compute at the black hole's edge.

**Quantum Dream Time**

Defining a ‘quantum clock’ and a 'quantum ruler' could help those attempting to unify physics—and solve the mystery of vanishing time.

**Our Place in the Multiverse**

Calculating the odds that intelligent observers arise in parallel universes—and working out what they might see.

**Sounding the Drums to Listen for Gravity’s Effect on Quantum Phenomena**

A bench-top experiment could test the notion that gravity breaks delicate quantum superpositions.

**Watching the Observers**

Accounting for quantum fuzziness could help us measure space and time—and the cosmos—more accurately.

RECENT FORUM POSTS

RECENT ARTICLES

Resolving the black hole firewall paradox—by calculating what a real astronaut would compute at the black hole's edge.

Defining a ‘quantum clock’ and a 'quantum ruler' could help those attempting to unify physics—and solve the mystery of vanishing time.

Calculating the odds that intelligent observers arise in parallel universes—and working out what they might see.

A bench-top experiment could test the notion that gravity breaks delicate quantum superpositions.

Accounting for quantum fuzziness could help us measure space and time—and the cosmos—more accurately.

FQXi FORUM

February 23, 2018

CATEGORY:
What's Ultimately Possible in Physics? Essay Contest (2009)
[back]

TOPIC: Quantum mechanics from a stochastic least action principle by Joakim David Munkhammar [refresh]

TOPIC: Quantum mechanics from a stochastic least action principle by Joakim David Munkhammar [refresh]

In this paper we begin by discussing the ultimate possibilities in physics. We then continue with a brief review of quantum mechanics and the history of action principles including a recent proposition of a universal action reservoir. We then move on to define a new least action principle for classical physics: a stochastic least action principle. We show that this principle yields the same result as Feynman's approach to quantum mechanics. We also show that it corresponds to classical physics in the case of S >> \hbar. As an example of the stochastic least action principle we apply it to the Einstein-Hilbert action of general relativity and obtain a form of quantum gravity. We also hint a stochastic differential equation approach to action based on the stochastic least action principle. In conclusion we discuss possible connections between our approach and other theories. Finally we return to discuss the open possibilities in physics.

Joakim Munkhammar is an independent researcher who holds a double masters degree in mathematics and astrophysics from Uppsala University 2008. He has published several reports and papers in pure- and applied mathematics and astrophysics. His current research interests include approaches to quantum theory and the unification of general relativity with electromagnetism.

Dear Joakim David Munkhammar,

Of course as per Albert Einstein’s statement, ‘I am convinced God does not play dice’ the probabilistic physics to deterministic physics may be the ultimate possibility in physics. But the search for hidden variables is the big constrain in Quantum Mechanics. We may have a long road map ahead to explore the Nature and in that also least action principle and path integral formulation are applicable, good…

With Best wishes

Jayakar

report post as inappropriate

Of course as per Albert Einstein’s statement, ‘I am convinced God does not play dice’ the probabilistic physics to deterministic physics may be the ultimate possibility in physics. But the search for hidden variables is the big constrain in Quantum Mechanics. We may have a long road map ahead to explore the Nature and in that also least action principle and path integral formulation are applicable, good…

With Best wishes

Jayakar

report post as inappropriate

Nice quote from Einstein. May be you are interested in having a look at 5-dimensional universe, an essay at http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1326

PicoPhysics is a deterministic theory and resolves most of issues resolved using probability in mainstream physics.

Look forwrad to your comments and evaluation of the essay.

Vijay Gupta

report post as inappropriate

PicoPhysics is a deterministic theory and resolves most of issues resolved using probability in mainstream physics.

Look forwrad to your comments and evaluation of the essay.

Vijay Gupta

report post as inappropriate

Dear Jayakar Johnson Joseph,

I believe that the final theory of Quantum Mechanics will be surprisingly elegant. Perhaps it is deterministic, perhaps it is not. Perhaps determinisism is not fully understood, in anyway we just got to keep looking.

Best Wishes

Joakim

I believe that the final theory of Quantum Mechanics will be surprisingly elegant. Perhaps it is deterministic, perhaps it is not. Perhaps determinisism is not fully understood, in anyway we just got to keep looking.

Best Wishes

Joakim

Good morning Jayakar,

You are correct. Finally Quantum Mechanics is surprisingly elegant. Based out of single three word sentence 'Space Contain Energy'. You are invited to review my essay at http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1326

Look forwrad to your comments and evaluation of the essay.

Vijay Gupta

report post as inappropriate

You are correct. Finally Quantum Mechanics is surprisingly elegant. Based out of single three word sentence 'Space Contain Energy'. You are invited to review my essay at http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1326

Look forwrad to your comments and evaluation of the essay.

Vijay Gupta

report post as inappropriate

Hi dear Joakim David Munkhammar,

Very interesting ,of course God doesn't play dice ,and he dislikes too the publicity ,hihihi I am laughing of course ,a little humor is good for fundamenatl researchs .

What I say is simple ,insert the fundamentals and invariances ,coherences and constants .

Thus the rotating spheres .

The gravity ,the mass is directly linked with this...

view entire post

Very interesting ,of course God doesn't play dice ,and he dislikes too the publicity ,hihihi I am laughing of course ,a little humor is good for fundamenatl researchs .

What I say is simple ,insert the fundamentals and invariances ,coherences and constants .

Thus the rotating spheres .

The gravity ,the mass is directly linked with this...

view entire post

report post as inappropriate

Dear Steve,

thanks for commenting on my paper. I had a hard time understanding what you wrote, but if it is on rotating spheres in connection with general relativity, perhaps gravitomagnetism is something for you to dig in to (effects of rotating spheres for example):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitomagnetism

This is also pretty much the source of gravitational waves as well, much in the same way as for light in electrodynamics.

/Joakim

thanks for commenting on my paper. I had a hard time understanding what you wrote, but if it is on rotating spheres in connection with general relativity, perhaps gravitomagnetism is something for you to dig in to (effects of rotating spheres for example):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitomagnetism

This is also pretty much the source of gravitational waves as well, much in the same way as for light in electrodynamics.

/Joakim

Hello Joakim,

It's likeable ,I am going to read it .Indeed the rotations are an effect of the ultim entropy

Don't worry about my writings ,I like catalyze the threads and my English must be improved hihih .

Sincerely,I invite you to insert the spheres ,fundamentals ,like I said a fundamental theory evolves .

The Theory of spherisation is a gauge and we can find details...

view entire post

It's likeable ,I am going to read it .Indeed the rotations are an effect of the ultim entropy

Don't worry about my writings ,I like catalyze the threads and my English must be improved hihih .

Sincerely,I invite you to insert the spheres ,fundamentals ,like I said a fundamental theory evolves .

The Theory of spherisation is a gauge and we can find details...

view entire post

report post as inappropriate

Hello Joakim ,

Could you tell me more about this interesting gravitomagnetism .

What do you think about the idea of Mr Baten about the protofields .

It's relevant in my opinion about the rotations ,the senses ,the angles ,the directions ,the velocities ,the orbitals ....and thus the polarity .

Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

Could you tell me more about this interesting gravitomagnetism .

What do you think about the idea of Mr Baten about the protofields .

It's relevant in my opinion about the rotations ,the senses ,the angles ,the directions ,the velocities ,the orbitals ....and thus the polarity .

Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

Dear Joakim,

I like how you shed light on one fundamental principle with different perspectives. This helps to gain new insight. I think I'll have to read your essay quietly three or four times in order to have a better understanding. At first read, I have the following questions: aren't you just counter Wick-rotating Feynmans least action principle and writing entropy in a new unit? When S_i goes to infinity you retrieve classical mechanics, but when S_i is of the order of a few h-bar, does your stochastic action principle have sense as you've lost the quantum interference effects of the complex exponential? I don't see for which experiments your principle can be of value in the quantum domain.

By the way, I promote the FQXi contest on my twitter profile and my blog. Would you mind if I post a quote of yours, linking to your essay?

Regards,

Arjen

report post as inappropriate

I like how you shed light on one fundamental principle with different perspectives. This helps to gain new insight. I think I'll have to read your essay quietly three or four times in order to have a better understanding. At first read, I have the following questions: aren't you just counter Wick-rotating Feynmans least action principle and writing entropy in a new unit? When S_i goes to infinity you retrieve classical mechanics, but when S_i is of the order of a few h-bar, does your stochastic action principle have sense as you've lost the quantum interference effects of the complex exponential? I don't see for which experiments your principle can be of value in the quantum domain.

By the way, I promote the FQXi contest on my twitter profile and my blog. Would you mind if I post a quote of yours, linking to your essay?

Regards,

Arjen

report post as inappropriate

Dear Arjen,

thanks for your most valuable comment. The idea of the stochastic least action principle is to eliminate the need for an action principle coupled with an additional principle for quantum mechanics. As this theory is equivalent to quantum mechanics in its current setup I am not sure if it gives any new direct testable predictions (other than the ones in quantum mechanics). I don't think I have lost any quantum effects when S_i is finite. The Wick rotation on the quantum wave function creates an ensemble of actions. The other way around is that the stochastic least action principle on regular mechanics creates a fundamental uncertainty in the action of a system. Only upon observation the action revealed, before that it is fundamentally hidden. So in an interference situation (eg double slit experiment) the stochastic least action principle merely states that the particle has a weighted probability of travelling all paths (actions) through this slit. Under Wick rotation this is equivalent to Feynmann's approach to quantum mechanics and should thus have the same dynamics.

The expected action from the stochastic least action principle is indeed sort of an entropy with a different unit.

Perhaps the truly interesting stuff happens if one investigates the stochastic differential equation approach. That is an open problem as of now.

I hope I have given you some adequate information.

Feel free to post anything on your blog/twitter!

Best Wishes

/Joakim

thanks for your most valuable comment. The idea of the stochastic least action principle is to eliminate the need for an action principle coupled with an additional principle for quantum mechanics. As this theory is equivalent to quantum mechanics in its current setup I am not sure if it gives any new direct testable predictions (other than the ones in quantum mechanics). I don't think I have lost any quantum effects when S_i is finite. The Wick rotation on the quantum wave function creates an ensemble of actions. The other way around is that the stochastic least action principle on regular mechanics creates a fundamental uncertainty in the action of a system. Only upon observation the action revealed, before that it is fundamentally hidden. So in an interference situation (eg double slit experiment) the stochastic least action principle merely states that the particle has a weighted probability of travelling all paths (actions) through this slit. Under Wick rotation this is equivalent to Feynmann's approach to quantum mechanics and should thus have the same dynamics.

The expected action from the stochastic least action principle is indeed sort of an entropy with a different unit.

Perhaps the truly interesting stuff happens if one investigates the stochastic differential equation approach. That is an open problem as of now.

I hope I have given you some adequate information.

Feel free to post anything on your blog/twitter!

Best Wishes

/Joakim

Dear Joakim ,

I inform me a little about this gravitomagnetism ,it's interesting,the similarities with Maxwell and GEM equations seem relavant if the synchronization is made with fundamentals and the correct number .All is there the correct number and its serie of course .

You give some ideas for my activation concept thus acceleration towards a stable rotations of quantum spheres .This Dark matter is relevant about the evolution and the contraction of our Universe and the polarisations .I must link the orbitals rot ,the spin rot ,the acceleration ,the waves and the mass of course .

The differences at the Planck Scale between the gravity and the electro magnetism are very relevant too .There The ideas of Mr Baten can be correlated too .The mobility and the rotations thus is specific .

The ratio of Mr Klingman in his essay between interactions is relevant too for a real taxonomy and a real topology .

Best Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

I inform me a little about this gravitomagnetism ,it's interesting,the similarities with Maxwell and GEM equations seem relavant if the synchronization is made with fundamentals and the correct number .All is there the correct number and its serie of course .

You give some ideas for my activation concept thus acceleration towards a stable rotations of quantum spheres .This Dark matter is relevant about the evolution and the contraction of our Universe and the polarisations .I must link the orbitals rot ,the spin rot ,the acceleration ,the waves and the mass of course .

The differences at the Planck Scale between the gravity and the electro magnetism are very relevant too .There The ideas of Mr Baten can be correlated too .The mobility and the rotations thus is specific .

The ratio of Mr Klingman in his essay between interactions is relevant too for a real taxonomy and a real topology .

Best Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

Steve and Joakim,

We handle the analytic continuation of a Euclidean path integral* to recover a probability amplitude from a partition function in order to treat the twin-slit experiment in an arXiv paper. Thanks, Joakim, for pointing out the Lisi paper, it was just what we needed to get from the graphical formalism to the quantum and classical in our program!

Mark

*That is, Wick rotated. Joakim, you call this Minkowski, but Zee calls it Euclidean. I'm using Zee's nomenclature here and in the arXiv paper.

report post as inappropriate

We handle the analytic continuation of a Euclidean path integral* to recover a probability amplitude from a partition function in order to treat the twin-slit experiment in an arXiv paper. Thanks, Joakim, for pointing out the Lisi paper, it was just what we needed to get from the graphical formalism to the quantum and classical in our program!

Mark

*That is, Wick rotated. Joakim, you call this Minkowski, but Zee calls it Euclidean. I'm using Zee's nomenclature here and in the arXiv paper.

report post as inappropriate

Dear Mr Mark Stuckey,

Nice to know you .

My point of vue is this one .

Here with the contest ,I see many systems extrapolated with Lie Algebras and complexs ,octonions ,quaternions etc etc ...all that is imaginary ,it doesn't exist HIGGS ,extradimensions ,multiverses ,hidden variables.....

These extrapolations are too simple and too complex with its derivations .The symmetry is false

Why beause each sphere is specific thus the symmetry is specific .

If a balance isn't made ,it's impossible .

Only 3D and a constant of evolution where the mass becomes .

A physical model is different than a mathematical model .Only the physicality is important ,the maths are a tool .A very good tool but without a balance between imaginaries and reals ,it's impossible ...these extrapolations are falses .

A real theory evoves and completes the fundamentals ,our laws .The constants ,the coherences .....

I am very surprised that the sciences community don't focus more on fundamentals .A real work continues and evolves .

In conclusion ,an axiomatisation ,a physical formalization takes all its sense when the balance is made .Without that it's a lost of time .

It doesn't exist higgs ,extradimensions ,strings ,multiverses,hidden variables,bizares particles...no our system is simple ....the rotating spheres .the number is specific .all must be classed with pragmatism ,a real topology exists ,not these imaginaries .

Best Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

Nice to know you .

My point of vue is this one .

Here with the contest ,I see many systems extrapolated with Lie Algebras and complexs ,octonions ,quaternions etc etc ...all that is imaginary ,it doesn't exist HIGGS ,extradimensions ,multiverses ,hidden variables.....

These extrapolations are too simple and too complex with its derivations .The symmetry is false

Why beause each sphere is specific thus the symmetry is specific .

If a balance isn't made ,it's impossible .

Only 3D and a constant of evolution where the mass becomes .

A physical model is different than a mathematical model .Only the physicality is important ,the maths are a tool .A very good tool but without a balance between imaginaries and reals ,it's impossible ...these extrapolations are falses .

A real theory evoves and completes the fundamentals ,our laws .The constants ,the coherences .....

I am very surprised that the sciences community don't focus more on fundamentals .A real work continues and evolves .

In conclusion ,an axiomatisation ,a physical formalization takes all its sense when the balance is made .Without that it's a lost of time .

It doesn't exist higgs ,extradimensions ,strings ,multiverses,hidden variables,bizares particles...no our system is simple ....the rotating spheres .the number is specific .all must be classed with pragmatism ,a real topology exists ,not these imaginaries .

Best Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

Hello all ,

sorry to derivate dear Joakim David Munkhammar on your blog,

I just finish .

The origin of mass is simple ,complex and simple .

Complex in its combinations.

Simple in its system .

The rotating spheres imply all ,and imply the mass too .We needs a physicality ,and this physicality must be correlated with our constants and fundamenatls laws ,

the quantum mechanics ,our perceptive system and our cosmological dimension are under the same laws ,with variables of thermodynamics and evolution .

Best Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

sorry to derivate dear Joakim David Munkhammar on your blog,

I just finish .

The origin of mass is simple ,complex and simple .

Complex in its combinations.

Simple in its system .

The rotating spheres imply all ,and imply the mass too .We needs a physicality ,and this physicality must be correlated with our constants and fundamenatls laws ,

the quantum mechanics ,our perceptive system and our cosmological dimension are under the same laws ,with variables of thermodynamics and evolution .

Best Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

Dear Mark,

glad to have been helpful. I wish you good luck in your pursuit of a better foundation for QFT.

Joakim

glad to have been helpful. I wish you good luck in your pursuit of a better foundation for QFT.

Joakim

Steve,

I make no sense what so ever out of your posts. I don't think physics is composed of only "rotating spheres" and if it was it would be explained by equations. Thus write it in equational form and from there we could debate it. By the way, since you asked for it, all information that one could possibly want about gravitomagnetism is located on the wiki site (or in links from there, in particular Mashhoon's papers).

Joakim

I make no sense what so ever out of your posts. I don't think physics is composed of only "rotating spheres" and if it was it would be explained by equations. Thus write it in equational form and from there we could debate it. By the way, since you asked for it, all information that one could possibly want about gravitomagnetism is located on the wiki site (or in links from there, in particular Mashhoon's papers).

Joakim

Joakim ,

I invite you to see the whole in all centers of interest,you shall see spheres everywhere .Al equations must be adapted ,if not it's a lost of time .

Thanks for the link ,interesting the gravitomagnetism .

Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

I invite you to see the whole in all centers of interest,you shall see spheres everywhere .Al equations must be adapted ,if not it's a lost of time .

Thanks for the link ,interesting the gravitomagnetism .

Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

Dear Joakim ,

It's nice your kind of thoughts.

I d like add something .

When you develop an equation ,I invite you to insert fundamenatsl correlated with our physicality .If not your equations are falses like imaginaries .

You know the thermodynamics PV =n RT ...More the mass ,mc²....G mm'/r²..or F=ma ...and many others with a good referential with good limits ....in all serie you must insert fundamentals and rationals .

Even when you calculate dear Joakim ,with Fourier ,euler ,pythagore,ostrogradski,dirac,and many others all depends of your referential .There thus it exists two kinds of maths ,falses or trues ,physically speaking .

The velocity of rotating spheres est proportional with the mass ,m v simply with a complexity in the details of synchronization .

Now I shut up and I calculate the rotating spheres hihihi

Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

It's nice your kind of thoughts.

I d like add something .

When you develop an equation ,I invite you to insert fundamenatsl correlated with our physicality .If not your equations are falses like imaginaries .

You know the thermodynamics PV =n RT ...More the mass ,mc²....G mm'/r²..or F=ma ...and many others with a good referential with good limits ....in all serie you must insert fundamentals and rationals .

Even when you calculate dear Joakim ,with Fourier ,euler ,pythagore,ostrogradski,dirac,and many others all depends of your referential .There thus it exists two kinds of maths ,falses or trues ,physically speaking .

The velocity of rotating spheres est proportional with the mass ,m v simply with a complexity in the details of synchronization .

Now I shut up and I calculate the rotating spheres hihihi

Regards

Steve

report post as inappropriate

Login or create account to post reply or comment.