Perhaps, the simplest form of this argument may be that “God cannot know that He is God, because He cannot distinguish Himself from a being deceived by a devil (or by his own mind) into believing He is God”. (And there exist, indeed, persons believing that they are God.)

The mind in cause may think that God’s attribute is omniscience, expressed by the condition

(1)...

view entire post

Perhaps, the simplest form of this argument may be that “God cannot know that He is God, because He cannot distinguish Himself from a being deceived by a devil (or by his own mind) into believing He is God”. (And there exist, indeed, persons believing that they are God.)

The mind in cause may think that God’s attribute is omniscience, expressed by the condition

(1) “contains all possible true statements in propositional form”.

Even in this case, as it is explained in the article above, the mind can falsely believe that it has this attribute. I agree that, indeed, believing in your own omniscience does not imply you are God.

* * *

But I will try to provide a slightly improved tool for checking the godness.

The condition (1) should refer to a world, a universe, in which the statements can be true or false. In that world, there may be an Altoona, there may be something called sky, which can have something named color, etc., or it may be not. If the world is a model (in the sense of Model Theory), then it should be a model for the theory consisting in the collection of statements from (1).

I would replace (1) by:

(1a) There is a model W (real or created/induced by an E.D.).

(1b) The mind M should contain all possible true statements about the world W in propositional form.

(1c) The mind M should be able to know in finite time (or better, instantaneously) all the consequences of the statements from (1b), including the consistency and completeness. Its knowledge should be found to be consistent and complete. It should know all future and past developments.

(1d) The mind M should be able to verify in finite or instantaneous time the experimental validity of its knowledge.

I assume, of course, that M masters perfectly the critical thinking :-)

The world W may be created by an E.D. or not, but this is irrelevant. If M can check the validity, consistency and completeness of its knowledge about W, then M will know that it is the God of the world W (being this world real or illusory).

Let us now assume that W is embedded in a larger world W2.

(Q) Does the existence of a God2 for W2 diminish the “godness” of the God of W?

(A) I would say that the answer to (Q) is “no”, except of course if we allow the God2 of W2 to change W or M “during the game”, preventing thus M from satisfying the conditions above. If God2 stops interacting with W, and if M satisfies the conditions above, then M is a God of W. There may be more gods for W (including God2), because there may be more minds knowing the same thing. They may be distinguished only if they have other attributes, or if they have knowledge about other stuff besides W.

Let us assume now that at some time, God2 changes the rules of the game. If M already checked its omniscience about W (for example if it can do this instantaneously), then it contains all the past and future of W. Changing the rules simply creates another W’ and another M’. But inside M there was already an identical copy of W, with its own time, with all the future and past consistent, and M is its God. Illusory or not, this world existed, and having its own timeline, it is too late to be changed. It gained eternity.

In conclusion, I think that M may content itself with the idea of being the God of the world W. There may always be the possibility that W is only part of a larger world, but this is irrelevant, W being logically closed.

view post as summary

Brian Beverly,

You said:

"History has shown time and again that what we consider to be gods or god is merely the personification of our ignorance. Does god know that it is god? I prefer to ask the question; do the ignorant know that they are ignorant?"

My words:

I too appreciate science and scientists. I enjoy the benefits that science has led us to. Yet there is...

view entire post

Brian Beverly,

You said:

"History has shown time and again that what we consider to be gods or god is merely the personification of our ignorance. Does god know that it is god? I prefer to ask the question; do the ignorant know that they are ignorant?"

My words:

I too appreciate science and scientists. I enjoy the benefits that science has led us to. Yet there is something very limited about our science. I have no religion. I do not know the cause of our existence. However, I am certain that science is only discovering what has been provided for us by something else other than us. I do not know what that original source was. However, I think that intelligence cannot arise from dumbness. It can be imagined that dumbness can lead to intelligence; but, no one can show the means by which that is possible. I think the reason for this failure is because dumbness can never rise above dumbness.

We may wish to be free of obligation to some source other than ourselves. If we could convince ourselves and others that the credit for our progress belongs to us; then, we would be the most important things of which we know. The feeling of greatness that we would achieve would last only as long as it takes for us to realize that the source of all intelligence can only be equal or greater intelligence.

I do not know the origin of our intelligence. However, I am certain that we are learning that which we are encoded to learn. We receive all of our information via photons. The photons arrive from all directions. They originate from a plethora of sources. They are mixed to the degree that their information should seem to be a random storm with no meaning beyond causing changes of velocity. Yet we pick patterns out of the storm of photons. How do we know about patterns? How do we know any meaning for those patterns? Yet, from that storm of photons we learn about ourselves and the universe.

It seems strange that photons, as described by science, carry only information about changes of distance for periods of time. It seems very strange that information about distance and time can be deciphered by us to tell us about love. I think that we have a great deal more to learn about photons and the properties of the universe. We need to learn about: What it is that is given to us that allows us to understand anything. I say given because we did not give it to ourselves. It came from the particles of matter that the earth surrendered to be assembled into our individual selves.

Those particles of matter cazme, much earlier, from sources other than the earth. Way back in the very beginning of the universe, those properties necessary for the potential development of human intelligence must have been in existence. Those properties allowed for the development of individual portions of intelligence, read this as human beings, that are capable of comprehending its source. The universe gave birth to parts of itself capable of comprehending itself. No scientific theory that we yet have rises to this level.

Our scientific understanding still languishes at a very low level. We interpret the universe as being mechanical. I use this term in a broad sense not limiting it to macroscopic examples of machinery type operations. The mechanical concept I use is one of inanimate, unthinking actions supposedly resulting from one or more of the theoretical fundamental forces of nature. It is the material universe as defined by theoretical physics. It is dead and yet is full of useful action. It does not include properties of awareness and intelligent purpose. It is a universe described as being the opposite of intelligent life. It is what causes us to feel isolated, alone and insignificant. Yet it purports to describe the nature of a universe that gave birth to us.

James

view post as summary

James,

You have a great deal of insight into concepts that most would like to ignore. The usual answer to questions about such concepts is that intelligence is just a chance happening and is just the result of an extremely great number of individual chance happenings that taken together created intelligence. This ignores the established fact that all intelligent beings are extremely...

view entire post

James,

You have a great deal of insight into concepts that most would like to ignore. The usual answer to questions about such concepts is that intelligence is just a chance happening and is just the result of an extremely great number of individual chance happenings that taken together created intelligence. This ignores the established fact that all intelligent beings are extremely complex and highly ordered high potential energy structures that contain hierarchical ordered substructures that fulfill purposes that are abstract from the overall purpose of the whole structure and that exist in a world that is made in such a way that it actively works to destroy such structures by creating disorder and dissipating the energy to the surrounding environment (entropy). We spend most of our lives fighting against entropy and in the end it wins. As relatively intelligent beings we make ordered high potential energy structures, but find that overall we still add to entropy by dissipating more energy to the surrounding environment than we are able to extract and concentrate to make them. As soon as we finish constructing such objects they start to deteriorate. Even the simplest viable self-sustaining living creature contains a structure composed of a large number of complex subassemblies. It would not be reasonable to believe that all of those subassemblies would be produced by a base structure (that tends to destroy such things) by chance at the same time in the same place and would all exist long enough without being destroyed by entropy to some how come together to make a living creature that would then live long enough to reproduce and create a sustainable population. One thing that is often ignored about probabilities is that if, as an example, the probability was such that it took 6 billion years (it would be much longer in practice) to create the first living creature by probability and if an evolutionary change occurred with the same probability (it would likely be a much shorter time because it would be less complex than the original whole creature) with about 6 billion people in the world now we should see an evolutionary change on the average of at least one per year in man alone. We should be seeing a much larger number in other simpler creatures (such as single celled creatures) because of their much greater number. The frequency of evolutionary changes should be increasing exponentially along with the population. An example of this concept in the real world is the fact that even though the half-life of some isotopes is on the order of billions of years, we can still observe the decay of a large number of atoms of such an isotope if the sample contains a large enough number of atoms.

We not only are limited in our ability to learn by our built in structure and coding, but are also limited by the nature of the external world that we exist in. If all things in the world really did occur strictly by chance with no variability of probability science would not help us to understand the world at all. As an example if the world was made such that when any two objects collided they would sometimes pass through each other, sometimes bounce off each other at random angles, and sometimes break into small pieces that would then fly off in random directions, and there was be no way to determine which would happen in any given case, science would be of little help to us in any practical way to understand that phenomena. It is only because the world contains repeatable rules of behavior that entities in the world adhere to in their interactions with each other that enables us to gain anything by the use of science. Another factor in the way that the world is made that gives us to be able to understand parts of the world that we can not see or sense directly is the fact that forms and actions that we can see are repeated in similar forms in those things that we can’t see. As an example, we can see water waves, but we cannot see directly the wave behavior of light photons, but because it behaves in a similar way causing refraction under some circumstances, etc., we can understand much about light by observing the behavior of water waves. All we are really doing with science is learning what the built in rules are and how to use them to fulfill purposes that we desire to accomplish. The way that the world works in these and other ways suggest that it was designed to allow us to be able to learn about how it works. This and the complex structure of life forms suggest an intelligent creator. The world just does not look or act like a world created and governed by random chance events.

To All,

As to the Question: Does God Know He is God? In Isaiah 46:9 God says, (Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:). From this statement it is clear that God is saying that he does know that he is God and that there is no one else like him (no other Gods). This may not seem logical to us, but you must remember that we are limited to just part of this creation while God exists outside of it. We do not know anything about his world outside of the creation so its nature may make it possible for him to determine that he is the only God. He is also much greater than us so he may be able to search out and understand things that we cannot because of our limited intelligence. He is also saying that he is in complete control of the creation to make what ever he says come to pass and that he can and will do all that pleases him. This is not surprising since he created the world that we live in and therefore would know everything about it and how it works. In order for him to make it in the first place he would pretty much have to have absolute knowledge of it and the absolute ability to control it.

view post as summary

Georgina,

I did not mean to imply that God is only external to the creation. I was only pointing out that according to the scriptures, God existed before he created the world and he says that there are no others like him. He therefore can exist in the place that he was in before he created the world and the implication is that he exists there alone without others like himself. When he...

view entire post

Georgina,

I did not mean to imply that God is only external to the creation. I was only pointing out that according to the scriptures, God existed before he created the world and he says that there are no others like him. He therefore can exist in the place that he was in before he created the world and the implication is that he exists there alone without others like himself. When he created the eight dimensional world, he divided it up so that the lower four make up the three that we live and move in and a hidden one that is used to make our energy work the way that it does by giving it the variable mass, frequency, and wavelength effects that we now have some understanding of. These first four dimensions are called the earth. We are primarily trapped in the earth although our matter also uses the fifth dimension to generate the curvature that causes an energy photon to take a curved path that closes back upon itself to create a matter particle. The fifth dimension is called the first heaven or outer court and is ruled by creatures called the powers that control much of what goes on in the earth for God. Man will be given power over this level near the end of this world. The sixth dimension is the second heaven and is controlled by creatures called the principalities. The principalities are the mediators between the angels and the powers. Our matter does not have access to this level, so it is and always will be beyond our reach while we are in this world. The seventh dimension is the third heaven and is ruled by the angels. The paradise of God is in the middle of the third heaven around God’s throne. It is the place that those who are saved go when they die until Jesus returns to the earth for his thousand-year reign on this earth. They return with him and are resurrected to live in his kingdom with him for the thousand years (advanced training). The eighth dimension is reserved for God the Father and his only begotten son Jesus Christ. God has not told us about what the world beyond his eight dimensional creation is like, but he is the only one that has access to it. All we know is that it must exist because he had to have some place to exist in before he created this world. Of course it could be that his being itself is that place. In that case he would just have to have removed some of his motion from the part of him that would become the place for the creation. Of course he would have used some motion to make the basic dimensional system of the creation and then later more of his motion to make the energy and matter etc. that was later introduced into the dimensional system. Each type of God’s creatures mentioned above can have some access to lower levels, but does not have access to higher levels. As an example, angels have been sent down to the earth at times to do things here for God. God, of course, has complete access to the whole creation and is omnipotent over it. He would not necessarily need to be present in all places at all times to have complete control over it. He could get information about the state of all places at all times through sensors, as an example. Remember the speed of light limitation may not apply to him. I am not saying that he is not present at all places at all times, as that would work also. Since he says that he created the world, God could not be the creation because he would then have to preexist himself to create himself. For the most part body parts both send and receive signals from other body parts, so they likely have some level of knowledge of their existence as a part of a larger entity. Though this may not be conscious knowledge at the same level as exists for the body as a whole. Remember that each cell has all the recorded information in it necessary to generate the whole body, so in that sense each cell contains all the information about its oneness/connection to the whole body. It is unlikely that the individual cells can consciously process all that information. It is just made that way as an image of how it will be to be members of God’s body in the world to come, in that we will then know the whole body even including God (the head of the body). The idea that the world created itself is not very practical when it is examined very closely. First it does not exist as the kind of chaotic world that would come about from pure chance motions and actions, but is built up upon specific logical rules that allow for the production of the energy and matter structures that can be used to build complex ordered hierarchical physical and logical high potential energy structures such as ourselves. Second the world is not increasing in overall energy concentration and order, but is continually dissipating energy over larger areas and breaking down overall order (entropy). It is not creating itself. It is slowly destroying itself. Even living creatures that try to reverse entropy actually add to entropy overall. If the world became self aware and intelligent at some point, it must have some kind of suicide complex or something because the way that it is going it will destroy itself. I suppose that it could be aware of what is going on, but just be helpless to stop it. It would not be much of a God though if it can’t preserve its own existence let alone the existence of its followers. The world outside of living creatures does not evolve it devolves or slowly falls apart. You can read my comment to James to get some idea of some of the problems with the concept that life evolved starting from a very simple first life form and then advanced in complexity over time by mutations. As you can see the biggest problem would be how to get the production of all of the necessary subassemblies in one place at one time for a long enough time without them being destroyed by entropy in a world that is programmed to destroy such things, so that you could have any chance that the first life form could be formed. The time frame for each of the subassemblies to form by chance would be very long, but the timeframe for all of them to be formed by chance in the same place at the same time would be too long to have ever happened. Another problem is that the time from when all of the subassemblies were in existence together until they combined to form the living creature would have to be very short, so that none of the subassemblies would be destroyed by entropy before the living creature could be assembled. The problem is that with all of the at least millions of pounds of subassemblies lying around from all of the living creatures that die every year, we ought to see many new living creatures formed. Instead they just all turn to dust (deteriorate). One could argue that there has been some change in the world so that it doesn’t happen now because they are destroyed faster etc., but it would seem that a simple experiment could test that assumption. You could take a large sample of very simple one celled creatures and kill them in such a way that the subassemblies remain intact and then place them in a container that contained the environment that you believed would promote the production of life and see if it works. If anyone has tried it I haven’t heard of any success. I used to be more on the side of evolution, but the more that I looked at it the less sense it made.

John,

I need to go to bed now and get some sleep, so I will try to answer your comment tomorrow. I’m not trying to ignore you. I’m just trying to get some sleep so I can have some chance of giving you an intelligent answer. Wow what a concept, sleep, chance, and intelligence. Maybe the universe just needs a good night’s sleep and it will awaken the next day with enough intelligence to fix all its problems instantly. Then again if we are that intelligence, maybe we just need to get everybody together for a good simultaneous sleep-in and we will be able to solve all the world’s problems instantly the next day when we all awake together. A good night’s sleep will likely also decrease my silliness quotient.

view post as summary

It seems to me that the puzzle of God not being able to be sure to be God is a subtle variation of Gödels undecidability theorems.

If we consider the infinite mind to be a deduction/induction system - be it really infinite or merely finite - then, at least one thing must remain unexplainable: namely the explanation system itself (call it IM, GOD, TOE or whatsoever). That's a direct...

view entire post

It seems to me that the puzzle of God not being able to be sure to be God is a subtle variation of Gödels undecidability theorems.

If we consider the infinite mind to be a deduction/induction system - be it really infinite or merely finite - then, at least one thing must remain unexplainable: namely the explanation system itself (call it IM, GOD, TOE or whatsoever). That's a direct consequence of Gödel's findings (call this findings the ED or whatever).

"an infinite collection may fail to be exhaustive"

That's the first crucial thing of the whole line of reasoning that led to the assumption that God isn't able to know for sure he is God.

Cantor thought about infinity a lot and as we know he broke down under it. Why? Because "infinity" is only another word for "no borders". So it is a contradiction in itself to attach to the very concept of infinity any kind of a border (like "not exhaustive").

From Gödel's and Russell's findings we know, that, whatever references to a totality (the idea of infinity, hence "no borders") cannot at the same time be a part of this totality (in our case the idea of "not exhaustive - hence, "borders"), without falling back into the paradoxes of self-referential undecidability.

Remember Gödel's findings: The statement "this statement is not provable" seems to be true and indicates that the system is not complete. That is well-known. Maybe one can attach this conclusion also to every *infinite* system. But in that case we have the above mentioned contradiction in terms. The only alternative would be, to consider the whole system of which this statement arose, as inconsistent. The latter is also unsatisfying because one would run into an infinite regression of proving statements to be valued either true or false. What to do? Gödel's own response to that was

"[...] consistency with existence manifestly presupposes the axiom that every mathematical problem is solvable. Or, more precisely, it presupposes that we cannot prove the unsolvability of any problem.”.

GÖDEL, Kurt: On formally undecidable proposition of Principia mathematica and related systems I. (1931). In: Collected Works, Vol. I, pp. 145-195.

That would mean, by adding some more axioms into a system, one can solve some more questions. But even this would never come to an exhaustive end. Therefore the problem remains also in the case of a finite mind.

The real problem is the question if a conscious mind really could be *no more* than a aggregation of true statements in propositional form. For me it seems there is something missing. A formal system like the one which contains some - finite or infinite - true statements in propositional form isn't able to know forever that it at least cannot know one thing: there exists a true statement that cannot be proven inside this system.

It further seems to me that a couscious mind, be it infinite or finite, must be also able to grasp this (Gödel's!) truth as we humans are able to do it. No (Turing-)machine could do that!! So it seems to me that the IM knows why it cannot know for sure that it is complete without running into a self-referential loop. This IM/FM - for being not only a simple Turing-machine - should be aware of the conclusion that it deals only with abstract, Boolean-like knowledge of true and false values which affirm to each other again and again their existence and their "right to exist" as mutually exclusive and exhaustive (for example the polarities between infinite and finite). No machine could grasp this truth, as Rudy Rucker has illustrated very pretty in his book RUCKER, Rudy: Die Ufer der Unendlichkeit. Frankfurt a. M. (Krüger) 1989, pp. 211 f. So every system that can grasp the truth of Gödel's findings must be conscious as well as able to decide between truth (deduction) and merely assumption (induction).

The assumption (induction) made in the whole argument of IM's/FM's undermined by an ED is that a GOD who knows that he's GOD can consist only out of a mere Boolean system of logic. If he indeed would so, not only the IM/GOD/FM could be undermined by an ED, but also the ED and so on in an infinite regression could be undermined by other ED's and last but not least the whole argument *could* be inconsistent and therefore not valid - due to Gödel's findings. So what is your choice? Inconsistence or incompleteness? Due to Boolean logic it seems to me that such a choice has to be made - but this is only an *assumption*, the same assumption as the one considering a conscious being (be it GOD, IM or FM) to consist of nothing more than Boolean logics. The latter is only an assumption that had to be *proven*. Has anyone out there a proof for that (i don't think so...)? My *assumption* is that i cannot know everything and therefore many options remain possible, well in the sense of Gödel's statement above. Furthermore my assumption is that every abstract knowledge like Boolean inductions/deductions cannot distinguish between definite truth and assumption. But i can. Therefore i must be more that just a system of Boolean mutually exclusive values. This also holds true for the case that an ED baffled me to mistake my latter assumptions as truths instead of mere assumptions. Because if these assumptions would in turn be only assumptions, nothing is lost: The probability that i could be wrong remains and therefore the possibility that i could be right. And therefore the ED is just another word for my limited knowledge about the concret border between those things that could be thinkable in general and those things that could be unthinkable in general. But that's again a game of polarities. It seems to me that a world transcending these polarities doesn't need answers anymore, because there aren't anymore questions to ask. But this doesn't necessarily mean that in such realms there couldn't be awareness/consciousness anymore.

view post as summary

What terrific responses, across the board. The first thing I want to say is that FQXi Community readers are among the most interesting and original thinkers on the net, and refreshingly sincere in tackling deep questions. It’s a pleasure to read.

I should underline, by the way, the use of such phrases as “for the purposes of argument” in my original post. That is, I’m not...

view entire post

image: jared

What terrific responses, across the board. The first thing I want to say is that FQXi Community readers are among the most interesting and original thinkers on the net, and refreshingly sincere in tackling deep questions. It’s a pleasure to read.

I should underline, by the way, the use of such phrases as “for the purposes of argument” in my original post. That is, I’m not proposing that any God actually exists or has certain characteristics; this is just a thought experiment to get at the idea of Absolute Knowledge—which, as several have argued here, seems to be an *a priori* impossibility. (We could have the same discussion about an infinite computer that retains all true propositions in some way, though it’s harder to work that scenario, even in the imagination.) I only mention this because FQXi isn’t a space for theological debate *per se*, but for scientific discussion – albeit a type of science that comes awfully close, at times, to metaphysics.

But to the issue at hand.

Cristi Stoica said:

(Q) Does the existence of a God2 for W2 diminish the “godness” of the God of W?

(A) I would say that the answer to (Q) is “no”, except of course if we allow the God2 of W2 to change W or M “during the game”, preventing thus M from satisfying the conditions above. If God2 stops interacting with W, and if M satisfies the conditions above, then M is a God of W. There may be more gods for W (including God2), because there may be more minds knowing the same thing. They may be distinguished only if they have other attributes, or if they have knowledge about other stuff besides W.

This is exactly the point. Even an Infinite Mind (computer, what have you) containing all possible truths, and thus exhaustive in its knowledge, could not be sure that it *was*, in fact, exhaustive in its knowledge. It could only be certain that it knew everything about the cosmos—however we want to define the term--in which it found itself (in Cristi’s terms, it would be a “God of W”). Even if that cosmos were spatially infinite, as ours seems to be, and in that respect representable by an infinite number of true propositions, the I.M. might still only be in possession of a kind of localized infinity.

The application to T.O.E. is right there. If a T.O.E. is ever found—and here I mean not just a G.U.T. with gravity jury-rigged in, but a complete, maximally comprehensive T.O.E.—it may look very much like an exhaustive account of reality. (For the moment I’m going to assume Philosophical Materialism, or the claim that “reality” is equivalent to “physical reality.”)

Ideally, such a T.O.E. would explain any phenomena encountered, indeed any phenomena that could be encountered. This would be an accomplishment of the first water, worthy of serious reflection. A certain side of physics would be complete. Humanity would at last know How Things Work.

But even so grand a construction as this, if it ever comes to pass, is only ever going to be equivalent to the I.M. believing itself to have exhaustive knowledge. We, the future possessors of the T.O.E., might *still* be surprised at a later date to find that what we have been pleased to call Everything is only another subset—that our reality is, say, riding on a deeper reality, which is perhaps riding on a deeper one still.

Indeed, if the past four centuries have taught us anything, it’s that nature is almost relentlessly larger and more complex than we formerly imagined. Ptolemy must have thought he had a T.O.E., in a certain way. He wasn’t even close. I recognize the weaknesses of the analogy, but there remains a profound and principled problem with any claim to exhaustive knowledge.

Why is that a big deal? Only because when philosophically minded cosmologists and laypersons speak of T.O.E., they don’t mean “Theory of Everything Around Here,” or “Theory of Everything We Know So Far.” They mean Theory of *Everything.* A T.O.E. is a different kind of animal than any other kind of theory. Yet I have grave suspicions as to whether we could ever know that such a theory was complete.

We may simply never know that we know everything . . . even if, in fact, we do.

view post as summary

John,

Intelligence is both a state and a dynamic system. It is a state because it is composed of a structure that is built up over time to allow us to manipulate and interpret knowledge in an appropriate way for the current circumstance and to generate the appropriate response(s). It begins as a state with structure that is built into us when we are formed. This structure is supplemented...

view entire post

John,

Intelligence is both a state and a dynamic system. It is a state because it is composed of a structure that is built up over time to allow us to manipulate and interpret knowledge in an appropriate way for the current circumstance and to generate the appropriate response(s). It begins as a state with structure that is built into us when we are formed. This structure is supplemented by the addition of new path structures to successful responses to the most commonly encountered input circumstances that we experience. These circumstances along with the best responses to them that we have experienced are stored as information in our knowledge base. If we experience the same set of circumstances enough times, path flow structures are constructed that connect the input circumstance recognition circuitry directly to the proper output generation circuitry so that the response becomes automatic. The knowledge base also starts out with a built in knowledge base state that is given to us when we are formed. It too is dynamically changed as we gain new knowledge. As an example, the first time you see a car it might be a blue car. At that time you have no reason to believe that cars come in any other color, so you store that a car is blue. When you later see a red car, you now know that color is a variable property and you update your knowledge about cars to include this fact. If someone were to ask you what color cars are after you had seen the first car, but before you had seen the second car, your answer might be that cars are blue. Your answer to the same question after you had seen the second car might be that cars come in more than one color, at least blue and red. In this case your answers are mainly an output of the stored color knowledge that is stored in your knowledge base so very little intelligence is necessary to give the answer. The differences in the two answers represent more the dynamic change that has occurred in the knowledge base. That is why you will not likely see such questions on an intelligence test. Instead you will more likely see lines or dots or various shapes that possess some commonality or pattern with the intent of seeing if you can recognize it. The problem with such tests is that there is generally an assumption that intelligence is something that you either have or don’t have and that it can’t be developed. In reality that type of intelligence can be gained through the proper application of pattern recognition and processing training. In fact true intelligence is much more complex than such tests can evaluate and deals with many more types of patterns than are included in the tests. It is also inextricably joined to the knowledge database to allow for the recognition of common patterns, etc. Knowledge can be acquired through the use of intelligence, but it can also be acquired without it. In the example above, the knowledge that cars are blue is gained by simply recording the color information from the visual input. No true intelligence is required to gain that knowledge. After seeing the second car, you might use your intelligence to recognize the pattern that if cars come in two colors they may also come in more than two colors. If you had previously observed the pattern that people in this world will generally consider less of you if you tell them that you don’t know the answers to their questions and that they will think even less of you if you give an answer that is false, you might use your intelligence to generates an answer that shows the knowledge that you do have about their question, but hides any lack of knowledge that you have. So instead of saying that cars come in red and blue, which would be interpreted by them to be that you believe that they only come in red and blue (you noticed that pattern in their behavior earlier also), you might say that cars come in colors, such as red and blue, which leaves open the possibility of other colors also without you having to admit that you don’t really know if they do or not. This is a much more advanced type of pattern recognition and beating of one pattern against another or joining them together, etc. than can be tested for by using standard intelligence tests that concentrate primarily on mechanical patterns and forms. It is also a part of pattern recognition that utilizes a great deal of processing of stored information from the knowledge database to accomplish. To sum it up, both intelligence and knowledge begin with the fixed state that is built into us when we are formed and both change dynamically due to the information inputs that we experience during our lives. They both work together dynamically to allow us to gain more knowledge and intellectual abilities.

You are right that our present understanding is greatly based on our past experiences and those of others before us, but that is not really bad because contrary to the belief of some, we don’t really live in a world of chaos chance happenings, but in a world that is based on set rules of structure and operation. As we learn more and more about those rules through our experiences, we become more able to understand the present structures and motion conditions and more able to use them wisely for our benefit and for the benefit of those who come after us. We live in a world that is composed of a continuum of motions. The storage in our knowledge base of previous motion conditions (experiences) allows us to see the patterns that would not be able to be seen if we only had our present motion conditions to go on. By seeing which motions continue the same and which ones change we can understand such things as that we live on a planet that is rotating on its axis so that we get light from the son for awhile and then we get darkness for awhile in a continuing repetitive cycle. If we lived only in the present without access to the state of motions before the present, we would look out on the world and see the sun light and know that the sun produced light that benefits us, but as soon as the sun went down we would lose all recognition that it ever existed and believe that we live in a world of darkness until it came up again the next day. The stored records of past occurrences that we have in our knowledge base give us the ability to recognize changes in motions and the ability to see and understand repetitive motion structures. They also allow us to extrapolate those motions out to get an idea of what the future will be like. The world is as it is. The future is no more chaos than the present or past. It is just a continuance of the motions that moved from where they were in the past to where they now are in the present and will continue to move in their paths to new locations in the future in the continuum of motion that has existed from the beginning of the world when God introduced it into the dimensional system that he made to contain it. It only looks like the past is more ordered than the future because we have already seen and processed the past motion conditions and can directly see and process the present conditions, but the future motion conditions are still beyond our present ability to see and process so they seem to be less sure and more chaotic, but when they come and are processed we see that they were the same as those conditions that came before them. Let me assure you that as long as you live in this world you will remain in the present and not fall back into the past. We don’t create structure from chaos. The structure is already there present in the world. All we can do is learn to recognize, come to understand, and use the structure that already exists. That is what physics and all sciences are about.

You are right that Jesus was a Jew, but as the Christ (the only begotten son of God) he brought the New Testament (covenant or agreement between God and man) to the world. He wasn’t just trying to start the Old Testament over again. The Old Testament was based on physical actions. You were commanded not to kill another and if you did you would be judged for it, but in the New Testament not only would you be judged for murder, but also if you hated someone without cause. It changes from exterior actions of the body to interior actions of the spirit and soul, as an example. It is also based on better promises than the Old Testament. You are right that those in control were not willing to accept the changes that God made. This was likely in part because under the Old Testament the sons of Aaron had the office of the priesthood with one chosen each year to be the High Priest and the rest of the Levites had the office of service of the tabernacle, but in the New Testament Jesus is the High Priest and all that are in Christ are made priests and kings and are made parts of the temple or tabernacle, which is God’s body. This means that the Old Testament priest and Levite positions were no longer necessary and since the Levites received a tenth of the tithe given to God by the people and the priests received a tenth of the tithe given by the Levites to God they would have lost their respected positions and the money that came with them. This same Structure exists in many areas of life today even in the science establishment, so those who have the top positions often feel threatened by new ideas especially if they perceive them to be contrary to positions that they built their careers on or that they have publicly backed. In Christ, however, God has made us all equal under Christ, so there is no room for boasting of our accomplishments to put ourselves above others and neither is there a need to feel bad about yourself if you have not done anything that others would think to be special. You are right that he did not come to start a new religion, but just to introduce the next step of advancement in the one that he had already begun with the Old Testament in which he prophesied that he would do so several hundred years before he did it when he said in Jeremiah 31: 31-33, Behold, the days come, saith the LORD that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them saith the LORD: but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. When Jesus came, he merely carried out the next step of providing the new and better covenant that had already been promised by God as part of the old covenant.

Before God made the creation there was no group. In the future after this world is ended and the new world has replaced it we who are saved will be God’s body and Christ will be the head of the body and God will be the head of Christ in much the same way that our bodies are subject to our souls and our souls are subject to our spirits. God (the spiritual absolute) has made us and is bringing us up by his word that over time prepares us and makes us worthy to become parts of him when we are joined to him as members of his body. The fullness of which occurs in the world to come. It will be a much better world than this one is and we will be in it in a much better and closer relationship with God. Two of the reasons that God gave us the absolute conditions of perfection and then allowed us to fall from that perfection was so we would learn that we need him to attain and maintain that level of perfection and also so that we would see that none of us is better than another because we can only have and do what God gives us and he considers not on the basis of what we have, but on the basis of what we do with what he gives us. In the end if we do what he gives us to do with what he gives us to do it with, we are all considered the same. Whether you are given to be a dishwasher, a trash man, or a physicist; if you do the work that he gives you to do for him, you are all equal. Not that there will necessarily be need for all of the above mentioned jobs in the world to come. As I said before, a planetary organism would not be a very good god because it would only take a large meteor, or an expansion of the sun, or such an occurrence to destroy it. Not a very powerful god. Any god that has to live in this world, but can’t control everything in this world cannot guarantee its own survival let alone the survival of its followers.

view post as summary

"We may simply never know that we know everything"

Interesting point made by William Orem. The line of reasoning above results from the well-known incompleteness calculus of Gödel, especially the formulation of it by Chaitin's findings of necessarily but never sufficient axioms of a system to answer every question for sure that could follow out of this system.

The problem with every...

view entire post

"We may simply never know that we know everything"

Interesting point made by William Orem. The line of reasoning above results from the well-known incompleteness calculus of Gödel, especially the formulation of it by Chaitin's findings of necessarily but never sufficient axioms of a system to answer every question for sure that could follow out of this system.

The problem with every knowledge is, that it in general divides (decides) one thing to the expense of making another question undecidable. Remember the complementary of which-way-information and interference. Gaining which-way-information in quantum mechanics makes it impossible to gain an interference pattern at the same time (for the purpose of deducing that there is a "wave" at the same time as a "particle" in the experimental setup). The same occurs in our mind: Every act of "knowledge" must be an act of distinguishing and therefore drawing a border between two sides, between two alternatives. The one side is the "objective reality", the other side are our "subjective axioms about that reality" (proven or unproven) that enable this concrete distinction. Without the act of distinguishing there could be no knowledge. And building axioms is indeed such a distinction itself.

How can one overcome Gödel's incompleteness for the purpose of being not restricted to Chaitin's results? If one takes the above identification from knowledge with distiction for a fundamental fact of all existent knowledge, one has to conclude that the *complete* set of all knowledge is congruent with all that exists. For the purpose of knowing all that exists, all that exists has to be *undividable* from a consciousness that would be God's view of himself and hence congruent with himself. If all-that-exists has this property of undividable consciousness, there wouldn't remain a thing that would be *unconscious* in the sense of unknown.

What we have made with our above line of reasoning was to eliminate the border between object and subject. What we have gained with that is the assumption that *maybe* nature could be in all its parts gradually conscious and all that conscious stuff could be interconnected by the property of consciousness. The most coherent conscious view of all-that-is-conscious would be God's view, including the "higher truth" that all truths *except* the one that follows depend on where one draws the borders inside all-that-is. This would imply that this coherent consciousness was prior to the act of knowledge, hence the act of drawing a border, not the other way round. It would further imply that the idea of God to fabricate an act of division in the sense of Boolean logics/dualities can be "undone" by "eliminating" one side of the fundamental border of that inital distinction/duality. In concrete, one has to assume that all the polarities we must deal with in this world and therefore also all propositions, true/false-values, light/dark-values, good/bad-values are only observer dependent for an observer which has *not* the coherent consciousness of all-that-exists (God). Letting besides one value of our two-valued world could reveal that there must be more than just antagonisms from which all-that-exists is fundamentally "build" of. That seems paradoxical, because "letting besides" something should in the human mind not denote that something can be *increased* (namely *awareness* and the feeling of being *true*), hence can be more than it was before. One would conclude that letting besides one side of the border must either result in light (God) or result in darkness (E.D.). But nonetheless, it seems that only paradoxical thinking can bind togheter one's world of thoughts, ones world of ideas to a oneness. Therefore only "illogical" thouhgts could bind togheter a TOE to be complete and consistent. It is clear, that for the aim of my lines of reasoning, no TOE that is exclusively built on math and Boolean logics could achieve to be fundamentally complete, because math and Boolean logics are tools of decision, hence distinction, not tools of unification.

So the question whether we can ever know that we know everything denpends on the possibility/impossibility of connecting our own consciousness to the consciousness of all-that-exists (call it God or whatsoever).

view post as summary

Paul,

Intelligence is a state, but not an absolute state. As Stefan points out, distinction and unification are contradictory. Therefore knowledge is inherently subjective and finite, since it entail distinctions.

The theological problem is that if you have an absolute state of unity, than all opposites and distinctions blend out into a neutral medium. That's why the absolute would...

view entire post

Paul,

Intelligence is a state, but not an absolute state. As Stefan points out, distinction and unification are contradictory. Therefore knowledge is inherently subjective and finite, since it entail distinctions.

The theological problem is that if you have an absolute state of unity, than all opposites and distinctions blend out into a neutral medium. That's why the absolute would be the essence from which distinctions arise, not an ideal of distinctions from which our subjective reality is simply an imperfect model.

It's not that we create order out of pure chaos, but that our function of knowledge is inherently subjective, while the reality in which we exist is not, so there is no such thing as an objective perspective to perceive all potential input into any particular situation. Again, as Stefan pointed out, the process of making distinctions limits the totality of available knowledge. Reality isn't deterministic because of this fact that limits the field of knowledge from any one perspective. Even if the laws governing the actions are deterministic. Determinism depends on knowledge of all input being available. The idea of a monotheistic God is that it is this both complete and infinite store of information, yet they are contradictory. So we do create our subjective order out of the subjective chaos of input we receive.

The relationship of this dichotomy plays out throughout religion. The Christian Trinity is a good example. God the Father is the old Testament God of order and knowledge, the past. God the Holy Ghost is the God of Mystery and the unknown, the future. God the Son is the flesh and blood intersection of the present.

With Christianity, Jesus is the emotional core, but it was Constantine adopting Christianity as the official religion and using the cross as a war totem which gave it the predatory linear focus that made it a top down political entity and not just a bottom up social movement. In Islam, Mohammand combined these two functions.

Yes, God as a planetary organism would be potentially mortal, but that's what makes it really matter. If ones beingness is immortal, all sense of desire, feeling, emotion, etc. are cost free and meaningless. There is no distinction in total unity.

You say that as long as I live, I'll never fall into the past, but that's the point. When I die, I will. Just as those who stop learning quickly become isolated from what is going on around them.

Stefan,

Paradox gives reality the multidimensional character to keep it from being monochromatic. Between black and white are not just shades of grey, but all the colors of the spectrum, broken apart and constantly re-assembled. Good and bad are not an overarching moral code, but the basic binary code of biological calculation. Even amoebae distinguish between beneficial and detrimental. What is good for the fox, is bad for the chicken, yet there is no clear line where the chicken ends and the fox begins. Nature creates and consumes. It is only our subjectivity which gives it meaning, because meaning is what is left when what is meaningless is distilled away. Which often has meaning from some other perspective. We create order out of the chaos.

view post as summary

John,

It is true that our intelligence is not an absolute state because changes to our ability to recognize patterns, etc. must be made to accommodate changes in input information because we have not experienced all possible input data patterns and their combinations. We could expect that God on the other hand would have knowledge of all possible patterns and their combinations so his...

view entire post

John,

It is true that our intelligence is not an absolute state because changes to our ability to recognize patterns, etc. must be made to accommodate changes in input information because we have not experienced all possible input data patterns and their combinations. We could expect that God on the other hand would have knowledge of all possible patterns and their combinations so his intelligence could be at the absolute state.

It is true that knowledge is based on distinctions, but our reality, which is the object of our knowledge, is also based on distinctions because it came from the knowledge of God. In reality meaningful unification for us is the understanding of the fullness and joining together of the totality of the distinctions that God made when he created the world. Otherwise to know and completely understand all the distinctions that God made and how they are all interconnected and joined together to generate what exists in the creation. Lets start from the idea that God is the true unity in that he knows all things and knows all the possible choices or distinctions that can be made and all of the resultant interactions that any set of those choices would yield. We don’t know if that set of complete knowledge is finite or infinite. The first question is do we have direct access to God so we could possibly get that level of unity from him and secondly if we could do so, are we able to contain it in ourselves or are we inadequate to do so? When we look around in the world we don’t see complete unity. Instead we see distinctions. When we look at the sky we don’t see that all of the colors are joined together in unity in its appearance. If they were the sky would be white, but a distinction has been made somewhere that causes it to be blue (in general not counting clouds, etc.). We can trace that back and see that it is because of the gas that was chosen (a distinction) to make it up. We could trace it back further to see why that gas mixture was chosen or why that gas mixture makes the sky blue, etc., but at each step we would see that a choice or distinction was made to follow one possible direction and to not follow others that could have been taken instead. The world is the result of an innumerable number of such decisions or distinctions that were made by God in making it. The problem is that all we have to go on to try to understand God is the creation that he has made and given to us to live in. This means that we cannot get more information about God than he has in some way put into the creation. The answer to our first question is that we can’t approach directly to God to get the fullness of his unity directly because he has chosen (made a distinction) to not allow us to do that, at least at this time. Because we have not yet been able to even fully understand the limited set of distinctions that God made when he made the creation it is probably a safe bet that we are not at this time prepared to understand all of the possible choices that could be made and all of their interactions for all sets of choices. To say it another way, we are not currently ready or able to understand God’s unity completely. One problem with what Stefan said is that it is based on the assumption that God would make a decision and that after he made it he would no longer have access to all of the decisions that would then be excluded. Sort of like the idea that if you are in the middle of a city and make a choice to travel in one direction, you have excluded all of the paths that are behind you. It is true that our minds tend to work that way in general so that when we make a decision it tends to block us from seeing other ways and making decisions in other directions, but it is not that easy. We all know people who spend much of their life traveling down a path to a certain belief only to later make an abrupt change in the opposite direction to a belief that is mutually exclusive of their first belief. It is therefore possible to reverse decisions that were made and travel in the opposite direction to gain an understanding of that opposite path also. Because God’s mind is much greater than ours, it would not be too much to expect that he could follow down all possible paths and determine all possible outcomes from all possible sets of decisions so that he would truly possess the unity of all possible thought in himself. Once he had that unity he could choose the best limited set of decisions that he could use to fulfill any purpose that he desired to accomplish. This world that he has made is the result of such a choice. It does not contain the fullness of that unity because his purpose in creating it did not require it. It is true that the models of reality that we currently have are imperfect, but if over time we are given to be able to determine all of the decisions that were made by God to make this world and all of their interactions so that we can completely understand what God’s purposes were in making the creation and how the world will fulfill those purposes so that our mind is the same as God’s mind in that limited set of decisions, we will then be able to say that our model will be perfect and the objective and subjective sets will be equal in meaning and we will then be the same as God in that limited area of knowledge and the intelligence that made the generation of this world possible. Of course, that would still likely be only a small subset of all possible knowledge and intelligence.

You are right that to have true unity in the sense that you knew all possible decisions and all of their possible interactions in all possible sets of decisions, you would then be in the best place to make the proper decisions (the best decisions would naturally arise in your mind) that would fulfill all your purposes. We are definitely not in that position, but there is no reason to believe that God is not in that position, so I don’t see any theological problem there.

It is true that we are limited by only having a local perspective, so that things do not appear the same to us as to someone in another local perspective. God on the other hand has the true global perspective with complete access to all motions in the universe from the beginning of the creation when he introduced them through the end of the world. For God all of the motions that he introduced into the world at the beginning of the world work continually from the beginning of the world to its end to fulfill his purposes in making the creation. He says that he knew the end from the beginning. This implies that he figured out everything that was going to happen in the world before he made it. I don’t know about you, but for me the world does not appear as chaos when I look at it through my subjective senses. I see ordered structures that change very little (the earth always holds me to it and the sky is always up above) and even many changes that occur are repetitive (the day and season cycles always repeat). To me chaotic would be waking up on the ceiling because gravity decided to be repulsive for a random period and when I would go to the kitchen and put a cup of water in it to make coffee it would come out as ice because microwaves decided today to remove heat instead of adding it, etc., and things just decide to randomly appear and disappear and change shape around me. That would be chaotic. We live in a relatively stable and ordered world even according to our subjective senses. I don’t remember God mentioning whether knowledge (store of information) is infinite or not.

I suppose that you could look at it that way, but in fact God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost all have existed together from the beginning of the creation and will continue to exist that way through the end of this world.

Since it came from God who is the top, Christianity was a top down entity from the beginning, though men may not have always perceived it that way from lack of knowledge.

To me it means more that my relationship with God can continue and continue to grow in love, knowledge, feeling, emotion, and desire, etc. without end because you know that all of the labor and time that is put into the relationship will not just be a waste of time in the end and that the relationship can keep growing stronger eternally. When I was working I had to work long hours to get the resources to be able to enjoy a smaller amount of free time. Now that I am retired, and have adequate resources to enjoy life, I find all aspects of life more meaningful and pleasurable even though it now does not cost me in terms of my time as it did before. I can now pursue doing things that I could not have done when I had to pay for every minute of free time with a lot of work, so I see eternity as a positive benefit and an enhancement to my relationship with God rather than a detriment.

Of course, for those who are saved death just means continuing life in a different better place, falling into the past still does not happen to such. You are right about learning. That is why I continue to apply myself to gaining more understanding of how the world really works, etc. The only negative thing is that after you go so far you find that you have fewer to share the discoveries with because most have in essence all dropped off into the past in comparison. I still do enjoy discovering more though even if it is just for me to know. It just goes to show that isolation can occur at either end of the spectrum. I still prefer to be on the leading edge though.

view post as summary

Dear John,

i would like to "differenciate" my line of reasoning for the purpose of better understanding. Many of the things you wrote i can subscribe; indeed, i had many own lines of reasoning that are identical with yours.

The distinction-process i mentioned is to some limit "scaleable". Imagine an infinite void that is a oneness. Draw the first distinction. The result would be the...

view entire post

Dear John,

i would like to "differenciate" my line of reasoning for the purpose of better understanding. Many of the things you wrote i can subscribe; indeed, i had many own lines of reasoning that are identical with yours.

The distinction-process i mentioned is to some limit "scaleable". Imagine an infinite void that is a oneness. Draw the first distinction. The result would be the distinction between a oneness and a distinction. I don't want to say that God couldn't be more than such a mysterious "void". If he would, it is hard to imagine that this void can draw at some point of its existence a distinction. So either God is more than the void or the void is simply more than we can imagine (both possibilities could well be one and the same). For the purpose of our discussion i label the void here with God. So, the first distinction is drawn, there exists now a left side and a right side. That's pretty equal to mathematical reasoning in some sense. Both sides are equal in an equation (not always, that's the crucial point as we see later).

The left side is still the oneness, but what about the right side? It seems at first glance that the right side is the result of a distinction, therefore one could label it with the word "distinction". But what we divided is still the "same" at both sides of the border. Only a perspective was for this reason established. For God, surely the Fox and the Chicken are equally valued. The chicken eats worms, the Fox eats Chicken. But from a subjective perspective of one of the living beings it looks not so symmetric. If God is all-that-exists in his own right, how can he create living beings that don't contradict hiself being already all-that-exists? He has to divide himself and camouflage himself in the perspective of us, hence making a distinction inside himself. What could be the purpose of this tricky manipulation?

Creating some finished and equal beings with the same properties as God would mean that God can create more than "all-that-exists", means he is the sovereign not only of all-that-exists but also of all-that-not-or-not-yet-exists. This could be also a possibility, indeed. Maybe only from our perspective the both possibilities are mutually exclusive. Maybe existence is not the right word for the realms of God. Maybe we are here to continously come into real existence, not knowing yet what it really means to exist. So why coming continously into existence and not as an abrupt pop-up event?

If God is the "mother/father" of all distinction-processes, even at the right side as well as at the left side of the original distinction there is some essense of God in it. In this sense, if we are somewhat "fractals" of God's properties, discovering God would mean discovering oneself more and more. I don't mean this in a self-inflationary way. Because i think that the most important properties of God haven't much to do with knowledge, but more with delight, harmony and creativity and wisdom. These things can only be gained by a continous developement of oneself, not by a single pop-up event. Because if the latter would be the case, the emotions of one's identity would be not the emotions of that self, but the emotions that are created and put in by God by the pop-up-event. I assume that if God exists, he don't want us to be perfect clones of himself, wants us to have some free will, a own personality and so on. It's the same as for our own children. Personally i wouldn't like to get a child that i determined in every emotion, thought and desire.

In this sense i don't believe that God made a fixed set of distinctions, be it finite or infinite. If it nonetheless would be so, then all mathematics could surely also exist already in a platonic realm with all it's distinctions and equalities already made. I rather assume that we are totally inside of God, but God isn't already totally inside of us. That's somewhat an "unequality" which could lead to a better understanding of our relationship with the absolute. Remember a hologram. A single piece of this hologram can reproduce the whole original structure - only less sharp. Something is missing. So in every conscious fractal of God there's a kernel of God in it, but not yet the complete essence of God.

For the purpose of drawing nearer oneself to God, it is in my opinion inevitable to explore the own unknown sides of oneself. If we do so, we learn to perceive the present in a way that isn't anymore so much determined by the past. God surely could be able to bring us into existence by some single pop-up-events. But he wants us to be also *responsible creators* as he is, and bringing some beings into existence via pop-up-events would mean determining the emotions of such beings independent of any development of these beings out of the void (and without fear of death and all the hard struggles of life for the purpose of realizing what this void is able to implicate). Dependence is necessary to gain some independence in the future. Therefore every own creation of such a being poped-up out of the void would be determined also right from the start and moreover, some of these possible creations would be surely amateurish and even horrible. So it seems to me that we learn via distinction-processes to responsibly create and to be more and more independent. Creativity in my opinion has something to do with love and passion. Every mother/father would lead her/his children - a product of a "creation" - to independence but would not install to much independence too early. that would be wisdom.

Surely my lines of reasoning are somewhat analogies or even anthropic tautologies, but, surprisingly, knowledge can be gained not only by a distinction, but sometimes also by analogies. Analogies are "similarities", and, who wonders that one can gain some knowledge via analogies if there wouldn't be a fractal structure of reality that enables these "similarities"? Take the interference-pattern of two stones thrown into a sea. Via this one can deduce that in an quantum mechanical interference-experiment a single entity (name it "particle", "Bit" or whatever) obviously can take both ways.

My result of these lines of reasoning is, that even God doesn't know everything - everything about our development and the development of the whole physical universe. That's so, because we are fractals of God and a part of God, developing in many ways towards him. In this sense he could be understood as an "attractor", but no more in a strictly mathematical sense but more in an emotional sense of coherent existence. If one takes the border between knowing/unknowing not too serious, knowledge itself is somewhat more relative in comparison with emotions and coherence. Emotions indicate pretty well where we stand right now, abstract knowledge can't indicate this because it is a secondary concept of God.

view post as summary

Heck. I have to be back to work in an hour...

Paul,

I think we have to agree to disagree. Again. My point is that the western conception of God in more of an answer than a truth, ie. what people want to hear, than what really makes sense.

To quote, "It is therefore possible to reverse decisions that were made and travel in the opposite direction to gain an understanding of...

view entire post

Heck. I have to be back to work in an hour...

Paul,

I think we have to agree to disagree. Again. My point is that the western conception of God in more of an answer than a truth, ie. what people want to hear, than what really makes sense.

To quote, "It is therefore possible to reverse decisions that were made and travel in the opposite direction to gain an understanding of that opposite path also."

Yes, God is all things, but when you add up all things, they cancel out to an equilibrium. We spend our life desiring the ideal, but God is not the object of our desires. It is the source of our ability to desire. It is the essence, not the ideal. We attain goals all the time and than move on to new ones. If we didn't think these goals would solve our problems, we wouldn't desire them. The problem is that any goal attained just sets our sights a little higher, but the larger reality is that when we don't seek to move forward, we fall backward.

Lawrence,

Yes, the western concept of God as the ideal has been very powerful in motivating large social movements, but the spirit of humanity is that rawness of awareness all life possesses.

Jason,

I didn't say, Discover our limits. I said, Explore our limits. One is a goal. The other is a journey. Even proposing the fantastical, whether religious or purportedly scientific, is a necessary method of examination. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Stefan,

You certainly have a clear perspective. One point though;

"I rather assume that we are totally inside of God, but God isn't already totally inside of us. That's somewhat an "unequality" which could lead to a better understanding of our relationship with the absolute. Remember a hologram. A single piece of this hologram can reproduce the whole original structure - only less sharp. Something is missing. So in every conscious fractal of God there's a kernel of God in it, but not yet the complete essence of God."

It is that missing part which makes us who we are. It's the separation that is the distinction. It is the fact that our individual point of reference is what we measure the rest of the entire universe against that gives us this overwhelming sense of being and clarity, even though we are so frequently overpowered by it. When we die, we lose that and melt back into the whole.

Steve,

It is up to us. We would just be spoiled children if we were to wait for some higher order to save us.

There is a time when what comes before is the model we follow, but eventually it becomes the foundation we must rise from.

view post as summary

Lawrence,

It is the nature of the beast that we all possess this sense of clear eyed objectivity, but that our efforts to explain it to others, interpret what others have said, etc. creates some pretty bizarre descriptions. It does present an enormously interesting puzzle to try to reverse engineer. It's also safe to say that any model generally accepted by a number of people, isn't going...

view entire post

Lawrence,

It is the nature of the beast that we all possess this sense of clear eyed objectivity, but that our efforts to explain it to others, interpret what others have said, etc. creates some pretty bizarre descriptions. It does present an enormously interesting puzzle to try to reverse engineer. It's also safe to say that any model generally accepted by a number of people, isn't going to be understood by a fair number of those people and mutations occur.

As to the concept of and term "God," it has any number of meanings to people. For reference, consider all the ideas and interpretations of time put forth in the recent contest. Now multiply that by a few billion. Personally I would describe my version by my recent comment to Paul, that it is the source of desire (and awareness), not the idealized object of it.

From a biological perspective, I do think humanity is developing the characteristics of a planetary central nervous system. Not so much the top down authoritarian model that would be based on our current model of centralized authority, but a more organic yin/yang relationship, where the mind reacts to the situation more than it attempts to confine, define and control it. History and physics show closed sets collapse.

In that process I think it would prove very useful to co-opt the term God from the top down monotheists and reconfigure it as a bottom up source of awareness, rather than the top down idealization of it. It would go a long way to changing the terms of debate in any number of social, economic, political and religious conflicts.

One other factor of the monotheistic model is that it has a literary narrative structure, that while it has any number of plot twists and characters, ultimately it goes from beginning to end. Genesis to Armageddon. Quite literally it is time stamped and has a due date. Just as Paul points out that various aspects of the Old Testament are said to forecast the events of the New Testament, so to are there predictions and prophesies which will fit events of the future and given the large number of economic, ecological, social, resource, etc. bills coming due, it is safe to say we are in a fair approximation of the Biblical end times. What this means is that when it does all come crashing down, what come next will be, in many ways, a fresh start. Yet one in which everyone will be trying to define. That is why I put so much effort into trying to figure out what the essential reality is. At the very least, it allows me to see through all the competing agendas. Humanity will survive the coming mess, but how well is an open question.

Jason,

What does it feel like? Is it like an emotional expansion, followed by an intellectual consolidation? High tech can be quite a head rush, when you think how young it all really is, compared to how long civilization has been working toward it.

view post as summary

Steve,

I tried doing this as a file, but wrote it on email and it won't convert and download, so if William wants to change or delete it... I'm writing it for a friends publication. It ties several of the points I've been making here to a further observation about economics. It's my effort to pose another paradigm for humanity.

Between Culture and Nature on Planet Earth

In...

view entire post

Steve,

I tried doing this as a file, but wrote it on email and it won't convert and download, so if William wants to change or delete it... I'm writing it for a friends publication. It ties several of the points I've been making here to a further observation about economics. It's my effort to pose another paradigm for humanity.

Between Culture and Nature on Planet Earth

In trying to make sense of life, there is a constant tension between moving forward and reviewing the past. We neither want to be stuck in the past, or miss any lessons it might have to teach us. There is no one guide to the future, so it is a constant process of adaption. Often the corrections are so natural, we make them subconsciously, while other times they are the source of endless agonizing. The larger society goes through this process and political coalitions form to advocate for various propensities, such as conservatism looking to the presumed order of the past, as liberalism leans to the as yet formless energy of the future.

What is time itself? Is it a narrative path along which we travel from the past to the future? That is the common assumption on which our knowledge and the concept of history is based. It is Newton's absolute flow of time and Einstein's relative fourth dimension of space. There is a problem though. The past is a generally agreed upon series of events, while the future is an infinite number of possibilities, fanning out from the present. According to Relativity there is no absolute measure of time and since Quantum Mechanics says the laws of nature are not entirely deterministic, many physicists propose that multiple realities emerge whenever the laws governing the progression of events are not deterministic. Schrodinger's Cat is both dead and alive.

What if some basic logical error exists in our thinking? There are natives of South America who think of the past as being in front of and the future behind the observer. That is because their frame is the event, not the observer. Something happens, is observed and then is past. We, on the other hand, are a few degrees removed from this basic reality. For us, time is that series of events recorded in our minds and history books.

Are you confused? Consider this; If two particles, waves, whatever, collide, it creates an event. While the physical reality proceeds from past events to future ones, those events go the other way, from being in the future to being past. So which is the real direction of time? Are we traveling this path from the past into the future, or does the activity of what is present create a series of events which go from being future potential to past circumstance? Does the earth travel the fourth dimension from yesterday to tomorrow, or does tomorrow become yesterday because the earth rotates? This logic means that time is a property of motion, not the basis for it. It has more in common with temperature, than space. Energy creates and replaces events. The arrow of time goes from the event happening to its observation, not from the observation to the event(s), so Schrodinger's Cat hasn't multiplied before it's observed. There is no such thing as a dimensionless point in time, as that would require a cessation of the very motion being measured. Time is the measurement, not what is being measured.

The past is information. The future is where the energy goes.

Reality is composed of energy manifesting structure and information. While the energy is neither created or destroyed, its constant activity is creating and consuming the information. The timeline of energy is from past events to future ones, while the timeline for information and structure, being created and consumed, is from future to past. While this structure is constantly evolving, it does so at varying rates, so that change can be rapid or undetectable. As long as structures can absorb as much or more energy as they lose, they continue to exist, but this requires adapting to the information which the consumed energy manifests, whether it is an organism eating food, or an institution adjusting to changes in the larger culture. As institutions become more powerful, they tend to become less adaptive and insular, while provoking external reaction. As long as structures grow and adapt, the future is an evolving continuation of the past. When they can no longer adapt, the future becomes a reaction to the past. Evolution and revolution.

While our brains are of the physical reality that goes from past to future, our minds are the record of events which scroll away into the past. Eventually though, our lives are units of time that begin in the future and ultimately recede into the past.

This dichotomy is analogous to the top down order, vs. bottom up process of Complexity Theory. Order is the information receding into the past, while process is the energy expanding into the future.

Space, on the other hand, isn't simply three dimensions. Dimensions are really just linear projections. Lines. Three dimensions are simply the coordinate system of the center point. While relativity tried to model time as an additional dimension, based on the narrative series, it did succeed in showing that space cannot be considered a three dimensional grid, because the perspective is distorted from one point of reference to another. This is evident in basic political terms, since everyone has their own view of reality and they often clash, yet both points of view are correct, relatively speaking. You could say the Arabs and Israelis use different coordinate systems to define the same space. There is no universal perspective, as the more universal a concept is, the more generalized and inconsequential it is to any particular situation. It is this infinite dimensionality which make life dynamic, since there is no ultimate pattern into which it can settle. The brain feeds on chaos and turns it into order. Without that constant stimulation, it stagnates. Than again the opposite effect is that if we cannot discern order in the chaos, we would literally go insane.

When you have large numbers of points moving about, the one concept which does define the overall situation is temperature. The scalar level of activity. In fact the same logic which uses the speed of light to say time is a fourth dimension of space, could use a given amount of energy to say temperature is an additional parameter of volume, since a change in the volume of this energy would have a proportional effect on its temperature.

So time and temperature are actually quite similar, as emergent effects of motion. They describe the conceptual dichotomy of narrative and the larger network of activity from which we distill the narrative.

Physics is trying to solve a problem arising from our intellectual distance from reality, not a problem with reality. Other disciplines, such as biology, neurology, computer sciences, etc. are working around this conundrum in their own fashion.

Since thinking is conceptual reductionism, we tend to be focused on the contrasts, rather than the connected medium. With morality, this is the conflict between good and bad. The popular assumption is of a conflict between two extremes, but the attraction to the beneficial and repulsion of the detrimental is the primordial biological binary code, of which we are complex manifestations. It evolves from the bottom up, rather than proscribed from the top down. What is good for the fox, is bad for the chicken, yet there is no clear point where the chicken ends and the fox begins. Life is a bootstrapping process of creation and consumption. Success is being the foundation of what comes next, while failure is being fodder for it. Both are necessary and all are part of the larger organic process. While we like clear and easy answers, rather than hard and painful truths, it should be remembered that between black and white are not just shades of grey, but all the colors of the spectrum.

We think of God as an all-knowing absolute, but the universal state of the absolute has no division, while the distinctions of knowledge are relativistic feedback loops of information and judgement. The essence of interpersonal morality, to treat others as you would have them treat you, is moral relativism. A spiritual absolute would be the raw essence of consciousness from which complex organisms rise, not an all-knowing moral ideal from which humanity fell. When society does prescribe moral absolutes, it is confusing, since the linear assumption is that if a little of something is good, than a lot must be that much better and if anything is at all bad, than it must be all bad. There is no conceptual regard for reciprocity, reaction, balance, laws of unintended consequences, silver linings, etc. These are derided as moral relativism and people are expected to line up with the good and fight the bad. The result is endless chaos as masses of people are herded around complex situations by simplistic assertions of good and bad.

Monotheism began as an idealization of social hierarchy and the wisdom of elders, but it overlooks the more fundamental process by which society regenerates this order, as each generation dies off and is replaced by the next. The top down order is periodically replaced by bottom up processes.

It was polytheists who developed democracy, as tribes and cults interacted and had to compromise, while monotheism gave us the divine right of kings. While it is necessary to have a common set of goals and standards for any group to co-exist, it is more effective to have one built on a sensible foundation of common goals, than one chasing after abstract ideals. The perfect is enemy of the good.

Even though our religions remain monotheistic, our political institutions are largely democratic because they need the ability to regenerate from the bottom up, as old ways and leaders get stagnant and rigid. Now our social hierarchies are not so much a matter of political power, but economic weight, as wealth accumulates to those most adept at controlling the flow of it. It is becoming increasingly obvious this situation is both unstable and destructive to both society and the environment. The question is how to institute a system which combines healthy bottom up growth, with effective top down leadership and the ability to adjust both to changing circumstances. The old system of adolescent greed and fear, constrained by government regulation and protection, becomes less effective as the level of economic and social complexity increases.

A potential solution might lay in a reconsideration of money, that institution of collective trust on which our mass society is based.

Money functions as both a store of value and a medium of exchange. These work at cross purposes, because as a store of value it is a form of private property, while as a medium of exchange it is a form of public utility, similar to a road system. Most people focus on their own wealth in comparison to others and thus think of it as private property. The reality is that the system belongs to whomever guarantees its value. We do possess the money we hold, in the same way we possess the section of road we are driving on. You own your car, house, business, etc, but not the roads connecting them. Money is a similar medium. It was one thing when money signified some commodity you had stored or traded and its value was entirely based on that underlaying commodity, but now the money supply far exceeds the underlaying value of the real economy and so its value is maintained by the ability of the government to support it through taxation. This means that it has broken away from being an actual store of value and it is now entirely a medium of exchange. While this is potentially catastrophic, it presents an opportunity to change the basic economic equation.

Believing money is private property encourages people to hoard it. The problem is that capital is subject to the laws of supply and demand, with the lender as supply and the borrower as demand. Since the supply of capital must be balanced by demand for it, there must be sufficient borrowers for this notational wealth, or its value will collapse. The problem is that political power is on the side of those with money, rather than those borrowing it and this lack of balance regularly creates situations which swell the supply of money, while depleting the abilities of those borrowing it. This results in periodic credit collapse, as masses of borrowers default. We are at an extreme state of this particular situation, since lenders have persuaded the government to borrow massive amounts of its own money back, lowered loan standards and blown enormous bubbles of excess circulation, essentially pari-mutual wagering, aka, derivatives, to hold this surplus notational wealth. Now that the bubble is collapsing, the powers that be are engaged in even more destructive behavior, by issuing ever more debt and currency to keep the bubble from imploding. Since the money supply already exceeds the value of the general economy, the only way to prevent this additional money from being seriously inflationary is to draw ever more value out of society and the environment in order to support and pay interest on it, to the increasing detriment of world health.

Consider how it would change public perception of monetary wealth, if we were to come to the realization that the monetary system really is now entirely a form of public commons? The practice of hoarding excessive amounts would lack moral, logical and eventually legal justification. If people understood monetary value constituted public property, than they would be far more reluctant to drain value out of their social networks and environment to put in a bank in the first place. We all like having roads, but there in little inclination to pave more than we have to. In this situation, the same would apply to monetizing our lives. Other avenues of trust and reciprocation would have the space to develop.

We made politics a public trust, why not do the same with the banking industry? As the currency is a public utility, so profits from its administration could be public income. A public banking system would not be one huge behemoth, but consist of institutions incorporated at every level of governance, so that individuals could bank with the ones which funded the services they are most likely to use. Different communities would seek to provide the best services with these funds, otherwise they would lose business and citizens to other communities. As it is, banking doesn't need the inventiveness for which private enterprise is most suited, but the stability that is the strength of the public sector.

The lack of extreme amounts of monetized wealth might also reduce the potential for bloated regimes to develop.

The only unit which fully defines humanity and life is the earth. Possibly humanity is the embryonic central nervous system of a planetary organism. Otherwise we are just top predator of a collapsing ecosystem.

Regards,

John B. Merryman

Sparks, Maryland

view post as summary

John,

I hope you got to work on time.

I never agree to disagree. I believe that it is always best to continue to try to find common ground to open up understanding as long as the other person is willing. You never know sometimes you say something in a little different way and it suddenly becomes clear to the other person. There was a time that I would have at least partly agreed...

view entire post

John,

I hope you got to work on time.

I never agree to disagree. I believe that it is always best to continue to try to find common ground to open up understanding as long as the other person is willing. You never know sometimes you say something in a little different way and it suddenly becomes clear to the other person. There was a time that I would have at least partly agreed with you about the western conception of God in general, but even then it always made sense to me that if the world was created by a God, that God would have to be very intelligent, well beyond our abilities in order to create a system as complex and organized with complex interacting rules of construction and operation that is well beyond anything we can do as is evident in the world that we live in. This leaves out most eastern religions because if they actually have a god it is often some mindless force or even in some cases the religion looks at man as that god, etc. so it would be evident that it could not create this world. The concept that the world created itself was all that was left and after analyzing that concept I found it to be lacking also because the world that would come from mindless chance happening would not look like the one that we live in. After I had obtained a better understanding of how the world works than I had at the beginning even beyond the level of the current scientific community, so that I could find no one else that had found out many details that I came to understand and had by chance (at least I thought at the time it was by chance) decided to look at the Holy Scriptures (Christian Bible to you) and found that it contained information on the structure of the heavens and earth (creation) that was in agreement with what I had found out even including more that I had not yet determined myself at that time, I thought it good to look into the western religions in more detail. I found that much of the information that I had found in the New Testament book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ was also present in the Jewish Old Testament. I found that the Old Testament predicted the coming of the Messiah and the establishment of the New Testament, so they work together as a unit and agree in overall content. They did not predict Islam and the Islamic text did not agree properly with either the Old Testament or the New Testament and had many inconsistencies in itself that were not present within the Jewish and Christian scriptures. At this point I looked at the various versions of the scriptures in English and found that all the versions with a copy write had left out certain information apparently in an attempt to make them simpler to understand or to make it different enough in content, so that it could get a copy write. I was then left with only the King James Version without a copy write. As I studied the Old and New Testaments further, I found that it addressed things that I had previously had a hard time accepting as the result of the creation of an intelligent God such as why the world appeared to be only a temporary structure and why it seemed to be designed to deteriorate over time. In the long run when I understood the details of the scriptures better I could see that the world’s structure fit perfectly into the purposes that God had created it for according to the scriptures. You are right that it is an answer, but it is also the only answer around that actually does make sense as the truth.

Yes the ability to reverse ones path and go in the opposite direction when the evidence suggests that you are on the wrong path or that there is a better one that adheres closer to reality is a good skill to learn because it will allow you to get out of dead end paths. Another skill is to learn to examine as many paths as you can before you start to travel down any path and continually examine any new paths that you come to along the way down the chosen path.

Actually, according to the scriptures God is not all things. He is good, but he is not evil, for example. If your concept that all things cancel out to an equilibrium were true we would all be better off to try to learn as little as possible because the closer we would get to knowing all things the less we would actually know because it would be mostly canceled out. We all know that in truth the more knowledge, wisdom, understanding, ability, resources, and power, etc. to do things that we have the more that we can do and the more effectively we can do it. As an example, if God knows and completely understands all things it would not mean that all that knowledge and understanding is canceled out so that he can effectively not know or understand anything and not be able to do anything, instead it means that he is able to always know the best way to do anything that he desires to do. If this was not true, people would not send their children to school to learn as much as possible so they can do more in the world. Under your theory companies would hire the most inexperienced people with the least training because then most of any small amount of knowledge that they had would not be canceled out. You are right that God is the one that is the source of our ability to desire. For me and I suspect also for all that get to know him and understand what he has done and is doing for us, he is also the object of our desires and is the ideal to us. We seek goals and when we attain them we realize that we did not fully understand all things involved because as we work toward our goals we learn more, so that when we reach the goal we now understand enough more that we can see that we could have done better, so we generate a new goal that includes use of the new information that we gained in fulfilling the previous goal. We find ourselves in an endless cycle of always having to replace old things with new and improved things as our knowledge increases. God on the other hand can determine from the beginning when he is forming his goals the ultimate best way to do things, so he does not have to get caught up in the endless progression cycles that we find ourselves in because of lack of complete knowledge and understanding. Given our circumstance of not knowing and understanding all things, you are right that it is best for us to keep moving forward in our effort to gain more knowledge, understanding, etc., so we can learn more about God and the world that he has made and be more successful at doing his will (the highest that we can set our sites) and not fall backward away from him or come short of the goal. In the King James Version of the scriptures it says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. It does not say fallen from God, but that all were not able of themselves to make it all the way. That is why he sent his only begotten son Jesus Christ into this world to help us make it the rest of the way by overcoming sin.

view post as summary

John,

I understand the existential philosophies of this world that basically say that you cannot really know anything except possibly that you exist. In this concept the world that we know could be completely subjective and may not have any similarity to true reality. The problem with that philosophy is that even though you may just be a computer in a box on God’s desk supplied with...

view entire post

John,

I understand the existential philosophies of this world that basically say that you cannot really know anything except possibly that you exist. In this concept the world that we know could be completely subjective and may not have any similarity to true reality. The problem with that philosophy is that even though you may just be a computer in a box on God’s desk supplied with inputs that represent a completely false made up world, you still get hunger pains if you don’t eat, whether or not the food really exists, so you still find yourself living in this world and going along with its inputs to you because it is all that you have. The next step is to say that maybe the world really does exist somewhat as it appears (is objective), but since you receive all of your information indirectly (subjectively) you can’t know that for sure, so maybe you should still not accept it as all fact. You are still left with the same problem, as before, however, in that those indirect inputs of information are all that you have to go on and live your life in. You are right that all of our knowledge is subjective and that the information that we store and the concepts that we derive and store from that information input is only a small subset of all of the possible information that could conceivably be gathered if one could simultaneously gain all of the direct or even indirect information that exists in the real world (assuming that it is real). From that you can correctly deduce that we are incapable of attaining absolute knowledge because we don’t know if any of the input that we receive is in any way a true representation of the real world in the absolute sense and even if it is, it is just a small portion of the total amount of information that you would need to be able to attain complete knowledge of the real world. The fact that our knowledge is so limited gives us no ability to truly determine whether God (the one producing the input) is limited in a similar way or not because he may have a whole world of his own separate from ours in which he may be anything from a small part to the complete world. If he is his complete world, then it is possible that he could have complete knowledge if he can know himself completely, as an example. The only way that you could have any chance of finding that out at all would be if God gives you any indication of the answer to that question in the input that he gives you, since he has not chosen to communicate to you in any other way. I believe that this is a valid reason to look at the input to see if such information exists in the input. Of course, if God were to not exist, other considerations would have to be considered, but this BLOG topic is based on the assumption that he does exist and only asks the question of whether he can know that he is God. The only truly rational response is that it is possible that he could, but we don’t know because of our lack of knowledge about him and the world that he lives in. To attempt to apply any limitations that we are subject to, such as the speed of light or limitations that we find in our own abstract inventions such as mathematics would be foolish because we don’t have any idea as to whether they apply to him or not. I have attempted to provide the information that I have found about God in the input information, that fits into the concept (assumption) that the world is a real existence (is truly objective), that the (subjective) information inputs that we receive are at least a close representation of that world, and that leads me to believe that God exists and created this world that we live in. I have also provided information that I have found as to what God’s purpose was that he is fulfilling through the creation and operation of this world. I have not found much information about what God’s existence is like or about details of what the world that he lives in outside of this creation is like. Since the new world that he says that he will make for the ones that are saved is much larger and better than this world, it is apparent that he has access to resources and abilities that are much greater than were necessary to produce this world. The new world is based on at least 12 dimensions, as an example, compared to the 8 dimensions of this world.

I know that you are focused on the concept that the creation somehow created itself and is god or that it somehow will evolve into god, but that does not appear very likely to me for several reasons. One is that for the creation to have happened by the big bang (I do believe that you said that you don’t believe in the big bang either so we may have agreement here) all laws of physics that existed before and at the time of the big bang would have to have been different than they are now. Most laws of conservation would be broken by the big bang, etc. There are no other credible natural creation (without an intelligent God) concepts around. The multi-verse ideas are not scientific because they are based on pure speculation without any scientific evidence. They are purposely designed to set the multi-verse outside of testable range in the same way that God is claimed to be. This puts both concepts in the same situation of being believed mainly only by faith without proof or even any scientific evidence to speak of. Multi-verse ideas are primarily atheist creation stories and are no more provable than the concept of the creation by God. The concept that the world is somehow evolving toward some higher level in which it will ultimately be god does not fit into what we see in the world. First, if you look at the world outside of living creatures, it is slowly losing overall order, averaging out energy, and causing the higher mass and lower mass atoms of matter to change to different elements near the center of the spectrum around iron. In other words it is breaking down through entropy. Living creatures do tend to build up complexity, but at the cost of even greater overall deterioration to the world as a whole. Moreover the concept that living creatures are advancing by random mutations through natural selection is an erroneous concept because natural selection does not cause advancement, but merely adaptation to the environment. Creatures would be selected to live only by how well they can fit into the environment. This means that if the environment were to change by some event so that it would be most favorable to giant fifty-foot unintelligent amebas, they are what you would get. That would not fit into my definition of advancement, but I guess that it may fit into some people’s definition. People see all the range of living creatures and assume that there has been a progression from the smallest and simplest to the largest and most complex, but we are not seeing any of these types of changes in the world today even though the present number of living creatures in the world is enough that statistically we should be seeing many evolutionary changes each year. One present concept is that the dinosaurs once ruled the world and only a natural event (large meteor hit, etc.) changed that rule. If this happened it shows that it was only chance that would have allowed man to arise and take the top position in the world. In the absence of that chance natural event, the dinosaurs would likely still be ruling the world not by intelligence, but by size and strength. This could happen again at any time and wipe out man this time. The natural advancement of the world to become god is not very likely because some natural event would likely occur before it could be completed that would destroy it. To some degree the concept of natural advancement probably comes from the fact that if you look at a young child and watch it grow you see what appears to be a natural progression of advancement. This is partly true, but where does it come from? First most of the apparent physical growth comes as a result of programming that is built into the child’s DNA structure at conception, so there is no real basic increase in progression. There is just a playing out of the complexity that is already programmed into the child from its beginning. The child also appears to grow in knowledge, intelligence, and mental and physical abilities. When one looks closely, however, it can be seen that most of that increase in mental, knowledge, intelligence, and physical abilities comes from either the natural preprogrammed development of the brain, etc. or from the training received from others. Overall people have not changed during recorded history. Most earth god concepts are based on the idea that man is basically good, but behaves so badly because of a bad environment. Many have tried to change man by changing the environment, but man is still the same. As a matter of fact those people who have put in the greatest effort to change the environment for the better have actually been some of the worst offenders of man’s environment. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao all tried to make the world over to make that perfect environment so that the perfect race of man would develop, but all ended up killing millions of people and left the world environment worse off because of their attempts by negatively affecting the lives of many more millions of people. All the evidence is that man is basically bad and the only way that I have seen a positive long-term change in anyone is by introduction into and application of the scriptures (God’s word) in a man’s life. I had intended to make this post much shorter, but I wanted to show you that I understand the concept that man cannot know anything about the external world in the absolute sense (we cannot have any knowledge that is guaranteed to be true), but also show that in our daily lives we always end up living them accepting what we see and otherwise sense as real and acting accordingly. I also wanted to cover the concept that has been proposed by some in this BLOG that god did not exist before the creation of the world, but is somehow now evolving and show that this concept is contrary to our everyday experience in which we are continually being bombarded by experts in many different fields telling us that the world is getting worse not better. Whether it is the increases in murders and massacres of large numbers of people by other people and the killing of millions of babies each year by abortions, etc. showing the increase in man’s inhumanity toward man, or the apparent increasing rate of the deterioration of the environment, such as the melting of the polar ice caps, etc, or the lower test score results of school students showing an apparent loss of mental ability in the next generation. In addition to this there is no real theory that I have seen proposed that would cause such advancement from nothing to god. Natural selection of random mutations only produces adaptation to the environment not true advancement and I have not seen a coherent presentation of any other theory explained that could cause such an advance from nothing to god.

view post as summary

Steve,

In the past, I also struggled with the question of why the world showed all the signs of being a temporary structure that is made to run down and wear out. In my early years, it also bothered me that the world seemed to treat the people in the United States more favorably than those in most other places on earth, but over the years that protection from great storms, earth quakes,...

view entire post

Steve,

In the past, I also struggled with the question of why the world showed all the signs of being a temporary structure that is made to run down and wear out. In my early years, it also bothered me that the world seemed to treat the people in the United States more favorably than those in most other places on earth, but over the years that protection from great storms, earth quakes, floods, fires, and other natural and man made disasters seemed to be decreasing. This pattern seemed to have no relation to anything that could be traced back to it as the cause of it. I could not find the cause of the protection or of its decrease in terms of man’s actions or natural laws. Some of man’s actions were definitely negative to the overall state of the world, but they were insufficient to cause the decrease in protection and they were distributed too evenly around the world to not cause similar problems in other places also. Moreover this did not explain the cause of the protection in the first place. It was not until I began to study the Holy Scriptures that I found an answer. For those who do not believe in God as the creator of the world with power over the world to do, as he desires with it, the answer cannot be found because they will never connect the changes with a greater power. They also will not understand the actions of man that cause God to make these kinds of changes in the world. When I read in the scriptures in the Old Testament about Israel, I found that God made promises to Israel that he would bless them as long as they remained with him. He also promised to curse them if they left him to worship false gods. He actually lists the specific blessings and curses in the scriptures and I found that the protection that I had observed agreed with the list of blessings and that the decreasing of that protection corresponded with decreases in the blessings and increase in the curses. I began to look in the scriptures for any similarity between Israel’s behavior in leaving God and turning to false Gods and the accompanying responses from God and the behavior of those in the United States and the observed negative changes seen in the United States. I found many similarities. For example, a great change away from God is evident beginning in the 1960’s. During that decade one thing that happened was that the Supreme Court more or less band reading of the scriptures in public schools. Immediately American children’s test scores on standardized tests began to decline and the decline has not been reversed to this day even after throwing large sums of money into the school systems around the country to try to find a way to reverse the problem. One of the blessings that God had promised Israel was that he would give them knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. The curse was that these things would be taken away from them. Another thing that happened in the 1960’s was that the Supreme Court sanctioned the killing of babies by abortion. Since then somewhere between 1 and 1.5 million children have been killed on average in the United States per year for a total of over 40 million killed from then to the present. It is interesting that the people of Israel did a similar thing when they left God and began to follow the false God Baal. They killed their children by passing them through the fire to Baal. God said that he would not have asked them to do such a thing and that it would not even come to his mind for them to do such a thing. He said that the earth would spew them out because of the shedding of innocent blood. This among other acts of man in the United States explains why the protection would have been there in the first place because the nation and its laws were founded upon or at least in great part were in agreement with God’s laws for man and why it would have been taken away as man went away from God and God’s laws and began to do the things that he told them not to do. So far this trend away from God and his laws has continued from the 1960’s to the present and the associated decrease in protection has also continued. In the scriptures the most likely long-term outcome is that the nation is destroyed. There have been some cases where the people repented and came back to God and were then restored to his favor, so I encourage people to return to him and I wait to see what happens. So far when I look at various places in the world, man’s relationship to God and man’s condition in the world follow this pattern. Man without God looks only for natural connections between man’s actions and their effects on the world, so it is not possible for him to connect bad things happening in the world to man’s killing of millions of children, etc. because he cannot find the connection link, since he is denying its existence.

It is interesting that you see that love is spread by information because that is the way that it is described in the scriptures. Man has built in laws (information structures) that are programmed into his make up that include a type of love. This love is connected to survival of the individual and allows a man to give love in order to get at least that much love in return. This is the kind of love that is predominant in the world without God. In this type of love one will marry another to receive love from the other, but may not even think about the need to love the other. If he does return the love that he receives, he will be offended if more is asked of him than was given to him. This type of love does not work very well because people almost always over estimate what they have given and under estimate what has been given to them. If you ask someone who’s marriage has broken up the reason for the break up and they respond that they did not receive the love that they had expected from the other person, their relationship is almost certainly based on this type of love. There is another type of love that is not natural to man, but is given to man by God in his word. God created this type of love by first giving man laws to keep that man in his natural state could not keep. The laws that God gave are good and include the other type of love, but man’s natural laws that are written into man at birth are selfish laws designed for survival and gain for the individual even at the expense of others, so man could not understand the fullness of them and keep them. God said that if a man kept his laws throughout his life, he would be saved by his own works of keeping God’s laws, but if he did not keep the laws of God he would die as the penalty for the sin of disobedience. As can be expected, everyone has failed to be able to keep them. God did this on purpose so that man would see that he needed God to save him (because God made man to become his body, so man is not made to be sufficient to live on his own without God). God then sent his only begotten son into the world to live a perfect life to fulfill his laws, so he could be the perfect sacrifice for the people, so that they could have their sins forgiven and be saved. In this he not only provided for salvation for all that willingly receive and believe on his son for the forgiveness of their sins and the restoration of their relationship to God, but he also demonstrated true love in that his son (who was the only one that was worthy to not die because he had kept God’s law) willingly died for man in man’s place to pay for man’s sins (not when man was almost perfect and at least close to worthy to be saved, but when man was living in sin and destroying his own life and the lives of others in his sin) so that man could have a chance to be restored to God. His love went out to us who cannot in anyway return his love for us, so we can be saved even though he suffered torture and death at the hands of the ones he was saving. This type of love is not natural to man and requires the information that is supplied in God’s word to reprogram man’s internal program information, so that he can understand and exercise this type of love. Those who receive God’s love are the lighted ones.

The ultimate connectivity is when we who are saved are all joined together in the body of Christ, with Christ (God’s only begotten son) as the head of the body and God as the head of Christ in the same way as we have a body that is ruled by our soul that is in tern ruled by our spirit. Then we all who are members of that body will experience the fullness of the love that you desire to have, both with each other and with God. God has given each of us the choice to either become members of his body or not. You must actively choose by accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Those who do not choose to become members of the body become part of the machinery used to make his body members, but after the body is made they will no longer be needed and will be destroyed along with this world which will also no longer be needed. A new, bigger, and better permanent world without entropy, etc. will replace this world as the place for God and his body to be joined together in and live in together without end in perfect love for one another.

As far as this world is concerned, we cannot make it better ourselves without God. When we leave God we leave the blessings of God and come into the curses. Everything we do in that condition will work against us even the things that seem the most reasonable to us to do and the world will only get worse. If all would come to and remain with God the world could greatly change for the better in a short time.

When we are with God he can and will give us the knowledge, wisdom, and understanding to know how to restore the earth and he will make our labor to do so prosper, but it can’t be done without him because he will not allow it. There are great parts of the creation that man is not yet even aware of the existence of that can be used to supply us with all that we could ever need or use, but God has set each thing in its own time and he will give them to his people at the proper times and places.

There is no real hope of obtaining what you are seeking for from the world without God. If you were an intelligent car that could think, would you be better off putting your hope in the manufacturing plant that made you to take care of you or in the one that made the manufacturing plant, so that it would make you, so that he could have you to act as an extension of his body to take him where he wants to go. The one that made the plant has the real power, ability, and desire to take care of you. The plant just follows his orders. The plant becomes expendable after you are made, if he made you to last without end. We who are saved are like parts of that car, except much better because we are not only an extension of his body, but together we are the whole body itself.

I have looked around me in this world and some of the things that I have seen are mentioned in this post to you and my other posts on this topic that you can read if you wish. I do desire to change the world for the better. It is just that I see the problem from a different viewpoint than you do. What I see is that the problem is not the growth or lack of growth of earthly plants, but the fault is in man. The answer is not to serve the earth, but to return to and serve God. We need to trust not in an imaginary evolution from nothing to God, but to trust in the God that made all things. I understand the appeal of the evolution concept because it basically says that man will eventually become God by his own works. It is the same deception that Eve fell for in the Garden of Eden that began sin in the world that “Ye shall be as gods”. It didn’t work for her and it won’t work for anyone else either. You can actually become a part of God, but only in the way that he has set up for it to happen. The action that works to make the world better is that action that God has given us to do, which is to preach (speak) the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the people of the world. Each one who receives God’s word and is changed into one of the lighted ones by it makes this world a little better. The movement that I am a part of is of God not man and goes far beyond this universe. It goes beyond science because it is controlled by the one that does not need science to try to understand the universe because he made the universe and knows all details about it from direct experience. Man’s life is not truly improved by external conditions, but by the change in the inward parts of the man that can only come from God by his Word. There are those who have all that money can buy and yet live inward lives of sorrow and despair and spread that sorrow and despair to others and make the world a worse place to live in regardless of how well the earth supplies their needs and desires and there are those that are poor in this world that inwardly live lives of joy and love in Christ and spread that joy and love to others and make the world a better place to live in, both by what they do and by what God does for them in the world that they could not do themselves no matter how hard they try. The end result of the spread of that joy and love and God’s response to it is both a world that recovers to provide all the resources that man needs and a life of love and joy for all in the world.

view post as summary

Hello Paul ,Jason ,all ,

It's so complex and simple in the same time .

The christian message of love is a road of universality .When I read the bible ,the Talmud ,The Coran ,the bouddhism ,........we find always the love and universal message .Those informations of love are a secret of the harmonic evolution.

You know Paul ,I live in Belgium and the main religion is the...

view entire post

Hello Paul ,Jason ,all ,

It's so complex and simple in the same time .

The christian message of love is a road of universality .When I read the bible ,the Talmud ,The Coran ,the bouddhism ,........we find always the love and universal message .Those informations of love are a secret of the harmonic evolution.

You know Paul ,I live in Belgium and the main religion is the catholicism ,I see some realities ,the people prefers the christianity than the catholicism ,it's different I think .

Indeed Jesus and his message is a pure love.....When I had 16 years ,I was fascinated by that ,...........These informations of love permits to harmonize the evolution ,and permits too to decrease the chaotics effects .

I think ,Paul ,we must create this Eden ,a beautiful Earth is Harmony and complementarity ,it's a rule of the human ,a catalyzer of love .All must be respected ,the minerals ,the vegetals ,the animals ,the evolution .

The human potential in complementarity and love can do many things ,so many things .

I beleive it's important to balance the personnal vision and the universal vision .Never we must impose an ideology because the love is the love ,on the other side we must act on ground ,it's a reality ,I am a horticultor too since any years ,the secret is the ground on Earth .Without an optimization of soils ,it wxill be difficult for our future .The love is that too ,the complementarity with the nature and all its creations in evolution and optimization towards harmony.We have all around us and many secrets are still to discover .

We see God everywhere in all things ,God says us ,act my babies ,he loves us and helps us by love informations and the discoveries of sciences .

Act is important because without that some people wait and it's too personal I think ,it's two points of vue ,act or wait the divin act ,if we consider those informations ,we must admit too the act,it's the rule of human I think ,act in love and universality .

In all case ,thanks for your article it's relevant .

The humanity is like a rainbow ,a diversity of colors united in the Light ,

it's difficult to turn off a big fire with one water drop,nevertheless a whole of drops makes Ocean......

sincerely

Steve

view post as summary

John,

I am glad that you have taken the first step of accepting reality. In a way the structure of the world is very simple. It is the details of how all of the simple parts are made and how they interact with each other that get complex. We live in a world that is composed of two main parts, the dimensional system and the motion that exists within that system. All of the sub-energy...

view entire post

John,

I am glad that you have taken the first step of accepting reality. In a way the structure of the world is very simple. It is the details of how all of the simple parts are made and how they interact with each other that get complex. We live in a world that is composed of two main parts, the dimensional system and the motion that exists within that system. All of the sub-energy (dark energy to you), energy, matter, all fourth and fifth vector structures that exist outside of man’s present knowledge and ability to detect except to some degree as dark matter on very large scales of detection, etc. are composed completely of motion. All you need to figure out is how the first five dimensions are structured and how they interact with one another and how each kind of motion entity that exists in them is structured and you have all you need to understand how reality works. I have supplied a lot of the basic information that one would need to begin to understand how it all works in the information that I have already entered in various places on this site. I have provided it primarily in layman’s terms so it is easy to understand. Of course, that means that some things have been provided in approximate forms that must be modified in more advanced applications (similar to Newtonian Gravity compared to relativity, etc.) and in some places I have used over simplified concepts that would need to be fleshed out to go very far in some areas, but it is enough to begin with and work out many details. The world could really care less about you either way. It just follows the rules that it was given to follow from the beginning when it was created. It is the one that made it and controls it that might under certain circumstances have sympathy to you or your concerns. You are definitely right that destruction is an essential part of this world. As a matter of fact it is slowly destroying itself. Not only are all of the atoms slowly changing to those in the center mass range around iron, but although people don’t yet know it, given enough time all matter particles will turn into energy photons and all energy photons will turn into sub-energy particles and all sub- energy will eventually travel at the same velocity and in the same direction in the lower three dimensions, so that there will be no differentiation of motion in the universe. It is just made to run down and nothing that man can do can change it. As a matter of fact man inevitably will speed up the process by breaking down the matter particles to get energy and by spreading the excess energy out into space to keep the local temperature acceptable. A better way to put it is that you can’t have your matter and eat it too. You can’t really have tomorrow (the future) at all and you are stuck in today (the present) and can’t get out even if you want to. You are right that there is no time dimension. There is just a continuum of motions that continually travel through distances and interact at various points with other motions. The number of energy photons does not remain the same because some change into matter or sub-matter and some sub-matter and matter particles change into energy photons, etc., so the total number of energy photons is continually changing. It is total motion that is conserved, which brings up an interesting question. Why don’t those motions cancel each other out, so that all the motions just disappear? Figure out the answer to that question and you will be a long way to understanding more advanced concepts. You are right that the motions are just recycled. The real problem is the motion differential dissipation. You can have all the motions still present in the world, but if they all travel in the same direction with the same velocity, you end up with a world that cannot support life because life requires the change of motions from higher motion levels to lower motion levels to support its functions. This world is made, so that will ultimately happen and nothing can be done to stop it. It is entropy at work.

As part of my work here, I look for and examine patterns that I find in this world to discern and define larger overall structures in order to determine the relative intelligence of their source of production and I have found that the scriptures contain some of the most interesting and advanced structural patterns in existence. Many of those patterns have explained the interactions and the purposes behind many of the patterns that I had seen in the world, but had not understood their meanings and some have pointed out patterns that I had not observed in the world until I was led to them by the pattern structures found in the scriptures. I suppose, though, that what is extremely interesting and useful to one can be stuffy to another that is not interested in such things. It is the same with all aspects of science. Some people just aren’t interested in science at all because their focus is on other things like art or sports, etc. To them the things that they place their focus on are very important to them just like understanding as much as I can about the world and how it works is important to me. The Bible does not frame my view of reality. It is the combination of the patterns that I have viewed in reality with the patterns that are in the scriptures and how they interact and work together that is truly interesting. As Steve might put it, it is the complexification of complementarity between the two that joins them into the harmony of the whole. I don’t know about cold, but if you want facts that are hard to understand, the scriptures contain some facts that are well beyond the understanding of anything that man has found so far in this world. Of course anything is only hard before its time. After its time has come even high school students usually have some understanding of things that were hard to understand before their time had come. Since the scriptures contain information not only about the past and present, but also contain information about the future all the way to the end of this world and even some information about the world to come, it is to be expected that many of those types of things will not be understood by many.

I find your comment to Steve about the commandment of God to go forth and multiply very interesting because it is a problem that I had trouble with in the past also. I found that the problem was not with that commandment, though, because the universe is large enough to accommodate all the expansion that man could possibly accomplish for a very long time. The problem is why have we not been allowed to open the next door to our cage and enter the next larger room. From the beginning the world has been to man like a cage within a cage, within a cage, etc. As we have expanded in population, God has opened up new and larger areas for us to expand into. The last such opening was the opening up of the new world of North and South America to expansion. The next opening will be to leave this world for the moon and later Mars, etc. These things are obvious. The real question is why God has not given man the ability to open up these areas yet. In the 1960’s it seemed like we were on the way to doing so with the first man on the moon, etc., but then it was all shut off. This was also the time that there was a great shift away from God, so I see this as another part of the pattern of blessings to curses transition. Since that time physics development also has slowly ground more and more to a halt. It is like a tree branch that has been cut off from the tree (the source of its nourishment). It stops its growth into new areas and begins to consume itself so that at least some part of it can live on, but it is in the long term an exercise of futility unless it is grafted back onto the tree. If it is grafted back on it will once more be able to get the resources that it needs to expand into new areas and prosper, otherwise it will die. God is the source of all of our knowledge, wisdom, and understanding. He is the one that allows us to find and be able to utilize the resources that we need. He is also the one that gives us the keys to the next area for us to expand into. Man has gone so far away from God and is so focused on how to divide the dwindling resources that remain that he has not considered that if he were to join back to God the source of all things he would be supplied with all that he needs and more. The progression from blessings to curses suggest that God does not suffer fools forever either and is certainly able to use the laws of nature that he created to accomplish his goals.

view post as summary

Paul,

I'm not convinced entropy rules the universe. It applies to a closed system losing usable energy, but is the universe closed? Energy does coalesce into matter, but then matter breaks back down into energy and while light radiates out to 13+ billion lightyears, that also means we are absorbing energy from the same area. Since I'm one of those who think redshift is due to something...

view entire post

Paul,

I'm not convinced entropy rules the universe. It applies to a closed system losing usable energy, but is the universe closed? Energy does coalesce into matter, but then matter breaks back down into energy and while light radiates out to 13+ billion lightyears, that also means we are absorbing energy from the same area. Since I'm one of those who think redshift is due to something other than recessional velocity, that limit on the distance light travels is simply a horizon line, not the edge of a finite universe, so it is an infinite cycle of expanding energy and collapsing mass. Time is a process, not a narrative dimension that goes from beginning to end.

Why doesn't it collapse into a neutral medium? Possibly because the equilibrium is just not stable. It might be that the 2.7k temperature is all the energy space can hold in stable form, while concentrations above that start the process of gravitational collapse, which reaches its final stage with the stars and galaxies that break down this matter and radiate it back out, creating the illusion of expanding space, just as gravity creates the impression of collapsing space.

I am quite sure that the Bible contains far more information than I could ever possibly digest, especially in light of the millennia over which it has been written and edited. But than again computers, biology, atomic structure, etc. contain far more information and unusual connections, relationships, etc. than I could ever possibly imagine.

In the contest about time, there were a fair number of extremely well thought out and received essays on various interpretations of "block time." That being the effort to explain time as a linear dimension along which events are strung. One of the main problems this concept of time has is projecting the seeming determinism of the past onto the future. It would seem logical enough that if there is a narrative direction that seems readily apparent to past events, that it should continue to manifest onto future events. This results in any number of explanations, the most remarkable being those saying the future branches out into these multiple realities and is only defined by our observation of one of them. As I keep pointing out though, time goes the other direction. Events occur and recede into the past. Our observation of this is due to the fact these events selected us, not us them. It's not simply that the victors write the history books, but only the survivors are left to tell the tale. The wave of future potential collapses in the present and recedes into the past. So in a sense, prophetic narrative is an early form of block time, or at least derived from the same basic principle that time is a narrative dimension along which events exist and we travel.

Now again patterns do repeat and we can often deduce hints of the future in the past, but the process does have a bias toward seeing this series leading to our perception of it, since we are the ones selected by the process.

I'm also not saying I don't believe in my own understanding of a god, since I do feel we are all part of one larger whole and that when we begin to understand that and not just meditate on our own particular belly buttons, we will begin to reach for that next stage. We are separate, but part of a larger field effect, just as our brains consist of separate neurons that function as one larger field effect.

We are not going off this planet, until we get it right first. It's a big old universe out there and we have many lessons to learn from our trials here, with many false starts and dashed hopes along the way.

view post as summary

Jason,

It looks like we have somewhat similar histories in terms of religious experience and exposure to evolution and other science concepts, etc.

I also had early teachings in a denomination that turned out to be in error and not according to the scriptures that caused me some problems when I was young and actually led me away from God. It wasn’t until after many years of...

view entire post

Jason,

It looks like we have somewhat similar histories in terms of religious experience and exposure to evolution and other science concepts, etc.

I also had early teachings in a denomination that turned out to be in error and not according to the scriptures that caused me some problems when I was young and actually led me away from God. It wasn’t until after many years of following after an understanding of the world around me through science that I found out (when I read the scriptures) that God was not as I had been told that he was. I had pretty much been led to believe that God was there to answer my prayers to give me what I desired. When it didn’t happen that way at a time that was important to me, I was offended. When I put that concept of God together with other religions concepts that seemed to be saying that anyone could approach God in any way that he pleased by any set of rules that he made up and it would be ok with him, it did not make much sense to me. Most religions seemed to be saying that although each religion usually had some certain works that God wanted a man to do to get to him or to become a god himself, etc. and each religion differed somewhat in what those works should be they all still seemed willing to say that it was ok for the people in the other religions to come to God in their own way and any way they did it was acceptable to him. It looked to me like God was the servant to give everyone what they wanted and had to accept any kind of relationship that was offered and the people were acting like they were the gods. God did not seem to have any real purpose for creating the world at least not any that made any real sense. When I read the scriptures I found a different situation. I found that God had a purpose when he made the creation and us in it, which was to make a body for himself. We were given the chance to become members of his body. As such, it was only reasonable that he would expect us to do his will instead of the other way around. After all, none of us would want our body parts to just go off and do whatever they want to do instead of what we want them to do. It is also reasonable that he would expect us to accept the order of things that he had created, such as accepting Christ as the head of the body and God as the head of Christ. Considering that God made these things to work in that way to fulfill his purpose, if someone approaches him in some other way than the one he has established or wants a different relationship with him than the one that he is making, it is not hard to see why this would not be acceptable to him and that person would be rejected. Those that come to him and accept becoming parts of his body in the way that he desires are the ones that are accepted by him and those that are not willing to accept his offer, but want some other way to come to him are rejected. The body that he is making will last without end so once it is made this world will no longer be required by him because he will make a new better world for him to live in within his body. He will then reclaim all of the motion that he had put into this world back into himself, which will cause this world and everything in it to be burned up because his motion is much greater than the motion in this world. The end result is that those who accept becoming members of his body according to his design will be saved and live without end with him in his body while those who reject him altogether or try to come to him in some other way contrary to his acceptable way will be destroyed also. He gives everyone the chance to choose which he would rather have. The bad thing isn’t that God destroys those that reject him, but that when they have the chance, so many people reject having such a close relationship to God as becoming members of his body. I believe that many convince themselves that God will accept them even if they reject him and his plan and try to get some other relationship with him, but he says they can only come to him through his chosen one Jesus Christ his only begotten Son. I am glad that you are happy to have God in your life. Just remember that he will only accept you into his life if you come to him in the way that he has set up for you to come to him through Jesus Christ. People don’t really have to worry about ideological disagreements with other people. The only real problem is if you have an ideological disagreement with God because he is the one that decides what he will accept and what he will reject. If you come to him, follow him, and love him in the way that he has given for us to do in the scriptures, he will accept you and you will have the true joy that no one can take away from you.

I pretty much agree with you concerning evolution

It is not that there are many true Gods, but only one true God. Some worship false Gods that don’t exist, so their worship is in vain, some worship the true God in a way that is not pleasing and acceptable to God, so their worship is in vain also. It is the ones that worship the true God in the way that he has made to be acceptable to him that get eternal joy in the true meaning and intent of God in his love and in the love of his body in which we who are saved will all generously share in the richness of our life experiences together and share the continual revitalization that can come only from God.

God does give each of us the freedom to believe as we will, but he encourages us to believe him and choose the way that leads to life and not death. He says in the scriptures, I set before you life and death, choose life. It is not God’s will that anyone should perish, but that all would come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved, but in order to truly give people the freedom of choice he has to allow those that choose death rather than life with him to get their desire.

view post as summary

Steve,

The scriptures talk about a time when Satan would rule in the church. This came to pass in the early church when the Roman Empire sanctioned the church and the church changed from a persecuted minority to an accepted institution that was looked up to and it became popular and a positive mark of distinction to be a part of the church. Many entered in that were not of God only to get...

view entire post

Steve,

The scriptures talk about a time when Satan would rule in the church. This came to pass in the early church when the Roman Empire sanctioned the church and the church changed from a persecuted minority to an accepted institution that was looked up to and it became popular and a positive mark of distinction to be a part of the church. Many entered in that were not of God only to get acceptance as being good people by others for the gain that they could get from that association with the church. They began to change the way the church was run in order to make gain for themselves such as requiring sinners to pay penance in order to have their sins forgiven, etc. Ultimately the hierarchy of the church got so perverted that they set up the pope with the idea that he was God on earth and considered what he said to be greater in authority than the scriptures. This organization became to be known as the Roman Catholic Church and was responsible for much of the evil that was done in God’s name in the dark ages. God said that he would fight against the church controlled by Satan with the sword of his mouth. This came to pass with the development of the printing press that allowed the scriptures to be printed in large quantities at a price that many more people could afford thus giving God’s word to the people. The result was the protestant movement as people found out that the rules of the Catholic Church were not according to the scriptures. The Catholic Church says that it has now reformed, but it still holds onto many of the traditions that were started in that time. The protestant denominations that broke off have discarded many of the traditions of the Catholic Church and are closer to the scriptures in their practices, but generally have not escaped those traditions entirely. It has been a progressive movement back toward God with people slowly finding and coming to accept that some of their practices are not according to the scriptures and either changing them or breaking off of the group that they are in and forming a new group that walks a little closer to agreement with God’s Word. This is in agreement with the scriptures that predicted that this would happen also. It is best to just get the scriptures and read directly what God has to say to you than to go through others to get it.

You are right about Jesus and God’s message of his love for us that comes to us through him.

The point is that man cannot create Eden. God created it for man and man only destroyed it in his sin. Only God can restore the earth to that condition, which will happen when Jesus returns and rules this world for a thousand years near the end of this world. Until then the best that we can do is to return to God so that the curses will be taken away and the blessings will be restored, so that the work that we do will then be blessed by God and will make the earth better. The scriptures talk about a time like that happening at the end of the time that we are in. At that time God’s people will have work to do and God will bless us in that labor and the earth will get better. Those who attempt to do it without God will see their works cursed and they will fail. I don’t really think that many will be persuaded by my words to that effect though because in the scriptures God says that when a person begins to leave him he begins to worship the creation instead of the creator, so he is not really in control of himself and cannot stop himself from doing so because God has made it to be that way. The only way to reverse that behavior is for the person to return to God. I find it interesting that God has set some things like that up to work in a certain way and under those specific conditions people always behave the way that God says that they will.

You are right that we should not try to force others to believe in a certain way both because you really can’t do that and also because God has given it to man to be able to choose him or not. We who are of God are supposed to preach (speak) the Gospel to others, but it is up to them to receive and believe God or not as they choose.

My experience is that without God man has very little potential to accomplish anything of true value. As an experiment I have gone to government planning meetings and said flat out, This is the way to really solve the problem you are working on and this other way is the way that you can get more money, but it will not solve the problem. They always pick the way that will give them the money, but won’t solve the problem.

When one is of God the personal vision and universal vision are the same so there is no balancing necessary. The true harmony is to be in harmony with God the creator of nature and all things. You will then also be in harmony with the nature that he created just as he is because he can then give you the understanding of the secrets of how his creation works and what he desires for you to do to take care of it. Then God, man, and, nature will truly be one in harmony as a whole.

You are right that God gives us all of the information that we receive and all of the abilities to use that information that we have and that he has made the world so that even the invisible things can be clearly seen by the things that are seen because he has made similarities or images of the invisible things in the things that we can see. If he had not done this we could not understand the invisible things. These images also let you know about God because he has made images that tell us about him also even though we don’t see him directly.

It is important for us to act by coming to God through his word and receiving him as our Lord and Savior by Jesus Christ. It is then also important to act to preach the Gospel to others so that we can all come together in Christ to act as God has given for us to do, so that he will restore the world through us in the way that will really work to make a better world for all.

We believe the same in many ways, but on the most important subject we disagree. You believe in the creation to save you and give you a good life through evolution and I have followed those concepts out to their end and have found that they don’t work, so I believe in the creator of the creation to save me and give me a good life both in this world and also in the world to come. My analysis of man has come to the conclusion that (except under the influence of God in Christ) man is basically a destructive creature both to himself and to others. That is why it has been decided to withhold certain advanced technologies from man until it is necessary for man to have their understanding in order to complete long term structural plans for this world. It may then be necessary to implement certain control mechanisms to assure satisfactory results. Of course that could be modified if man returns to God in large enough numbers to assure adequate positive structural control.

In reality what will happen is that when man returns to God at the end of this time because of the famine that will come from trying to make a better world without God, fourth vector structuring technology will be given to those who are of God and they will rule over the world. In accordance to the way that man usually behaves, after God gives him the ability to overcome the famine and be prosperous again he will again leave God thinking that he no longer needs God and can take care of himself with his new knowledge. He will become very evil again and at that point God will destroy the Gentile nations and give the rule over the world to Israel. There is much more that happens beyond that and man will eventually be given fifth vector technology near the end of this world. Too bad man cannot just come to God and stay there. Much suffering such as the coming famine could be avoided and the world could be a wonderful place to live. There are so many possible wonderful things that man is missing out on that are well beyond your current ability to conceive. The problem is that all of those things can be used both for good or evil and the greater the knowledge the greater potential for greater destruction and man cannot be trusted to not use it to create that destruction. Actually man can be trusted to use it to create destruction. Then again God uses all of this to create his body members, so in the long run much good comes from it all. Not that you are likely to believe any of this anyway, at least at this time. It is always interesting to do information insertion tests like this and see what results.

You are definitely right that man can be united in the light because Jesus says, that he is the light of the world and we can truly be united together with God in him (the Light).

view post as summary

John,

To give you some hints that may help you to answer your first question about whether the universe is closed or not first consider whether or not it is finite or infinite. At this time science considers that the universe is expanding. If the universe were already infinite would there be any place for it to expand further into? Even if it is infinite the speed limit of light that you...

view entire post

John,

To give you some hints that may help you to answer your first question about whether the universe is closed or not first consider whether or not it is finite or infinite. At this time science considers that the universe is expanding. If the universe were already infinite would there be any place for it to expand further into? Even if it is infinite the speed limit of light that you mention would limit interaction to the area within the present reach of light and effectively close the system to the expanding area that light can reach from the beginning making it behave like an expanding closed system within the infinite system. If it is finite it is a closed system even if it is expanding. If the universe is expanding it just means that the dispersion of motion equally into all areas of space, which basically is entropy, will occur faster and the ultimate amount of motion per unit of space will be lower and approach closer to zero over time. It has been known for a long time that if you put matter that contains a lot of motion (lets say a boiling hot cup of coffee) into a room that contains a lower amount of motion (lets say it is at zero degrees C) the motion in that matter will begin to dissipate from that hot matter into the cold room so that eventually everything will be at the same temperature (contain the same amount of free motion per unit of space). In the example given, the cup is small in comparison to the room so the whole system will eventually be at close to zero degrees C. This is the situation with our universe. The amount of matter and energy, etc. is small compared to the amount of space, so if all of the motion in the universe were evenly distributed in space the temperature of space would still be very low. If the universe (amount of space) is expanding, but the amount of motion contained in it in matter and energy, etc. stays the same, that ultimate distributed temperature is just getting lower over time. It has been proven that the greater the temperature difference is, the faster the distribution occurs, so the greater the expansion rate is, the faster will be the overall motion breakdown and distribution throughout space because the expansion effectively lowers the temperature (amount of motion) per unit of space. Even if space is not expanding, the end result of total motion dispersion will result in a very low amount of motion per unit of space. If you believe that the universe is not expanding, you might want to believe the old steady state theory of the universe that gas clouds are condensed by gravity into stars that then radiate energy out into space and eventually explode to create new gas clouds that then condense into new stars in a never ending cycle. It sounds good on the surface, but like most things when you look beyond the surface things often look different. One problem is that stars produce their energy by combining lighter elements like hydrogen into heavier elements and when they explode they don’t convert the heavier elements back to the lighter ones. On the contrary, the explosions generate even more heavy elements at the expense of lighter ones. The end result is that over time there would not be a large enough quantity of the lighter elements (mainly those up to iron) to support the generation of energy by new stars. On the other end the heavier elements are continually breaking down over time into lighter elements so that the end result would be a world without both the heavy and light elements. These two types of reactions (fusion and fission) account for most of the useful spontaneous energy production in the universe. I won’t get into the natural process of breakdown of matter into energy and energy to sub-energy, etc. because I would have to cover things that are not for current release, but after all of the lighter and heavier elements were gone the next thing that man would have to do to survive would be to begin to break down matter particles to convert them to energy necessary to preserve life in the world. This would ultimately result in all matter being turned into energy. The breakdown from energy to sub-energy would have to take place naturally without man because man needs matter to survive. Basically matter contains a higher potential energy (total motion) state than is contained in most energy photons that are produced in the world. Energy photons can be produced that contain a great enough fourth vector velocity to produce matter particles when they collide, but it is an up hill operation against entropy to produce them for the most part, so they are produced at a greater cost to the overall motion content of matter than they can add back into the total motion content of matter by generating matter particles. The end result is that the conversion of matter into energy ultimately results in an increase in total energy in the world and a decrease in total matter in the world. It is similar to chemistry where although reactions can go both ways, they only occur naturally in the direction that causes a change from a higher state of total motion to a lower one. You can only get the reaction to go the other way by the input of external energy (motion). The end result is that much more motion is drained from matter and converted to energy than is generated in matter by the conversion of energy to matter. As an example, all of the visible light energy that is produced in the world is lost to the production of matter because the photons do not contain enough motion to produce a matter particle if two of them collide. The only way that the situation would change is if the universe was to collapse back upon itself, but that would not allow life to survive in it either. Either way man and all of his works would ultimately be destroyed so all his work would be in vain. We agree that time is not a physical dimension.

Again, it sounds good on the surface, but things don’t work that way in reality. Gravitational collapse, for example, in the creation of stars does not for the most part create matter from energy or even create matter at all. It just causes matter that is already in existence to be brought closer together to the point that fusion begins. Some of the energy produced by the conversion of some of the motion contained in the matter in the star causes an expansion that offsets the gravitational contraction of the matter in the star to create a stable balance so the star does not contract further or expand outward. The rest is dissipated out into space as photons of various frequencies dependent on the specific type of reaction that made them. Stars thus mostly cause a one-way dispersion of motion from matter into energy. If matter were actually created in any area that was above 2.7K, we would be seeing matter created around us all the time since our ambient living temperature is well above that, but we don’t.

You are right that the whole creation contains a great amount of information.

In reality all that really exists is the present conditions of motions. Each motion entity contains information such as its position, direction, and motion amplitude. Its current position, the direction that it is traveling in, and its current motion amplitude define its next current present position in the next present motion conditions after the current state of those conditions. As it progresses from one set of present motion conditions to the next its position information is updated to its new current position. Interactions with other motion entities can also cause its direction and, or, motion amplitude information to be changed also. There is no real future or past in existence. Time in the sense that one thing happens before another (order) or that a motion takes a certain period to cross a certain distance are just due to variations in relative motion amplitudes and distances traveled. They are the result of comparing recorded motion conditions with other recorded motion conditions or the present conditions and identifying which of a number of motion entities arrives at a certain position first or comparing a motion entity that travels through a certain distance with a certain motion amplitude (its period) with another motion entity that travels through its own distance at its own motion amplitude (its period). Periods are generally constructs of a series of many present motion conditions of a motion entity to show the overall flow of motion of the entity and therefore only one very small part of a period exists in the current present motion conditions. The rest of the individual motion conditions that make up the period are viewed only through stored records of previous present motion conditions. Order can be determined within the present motion conditions such as the instantaneous order of positions of three motion entities that are all traveling in the same direction to determine the one that is the farthest along in the direction of travel, the one that is second farthest, and the one that is last, or it can extend over many present motion conditions such as the order that the same three entities pass a predetermined finish line position in which case it is again fully viewed only by looking at stored records of previous present motion conditions possibly along with the present motion conditions. The past is just the motion conditions that were present, but are no longer present and therefore no longer exist. Our sense of the past comes from our ability to store the current motion conditions in records and to organize sets of these records of current motion conditions in the order that they occurred. The future to us is the result of extrapolation of motion entities’ motions (as determined from records of their past positions, motion amplitudes, and directions along with their present conditions) out to determine where the entities will be in later present motion conditions that have not yet occurred. These extrapolations can be stored, so that they can be referred to later and can be compared to other such records to give us a broader overall sense of the future. These conditions that we view as parts of the future do not exist in the present motion conditions and if they do come to pass (if our extrapolations are correct) they are not in the future at that time, but are a part of the current present motion conditions when they occur. In this sense one could say that the future emerges from the present, but that would not really be completely correct, because it is really the next present set of motion conditions that emerge from this current set of present motion conditions. It would be better to say that the present continually emerges or flows from the present. If you cause a change in a motion in the current present motion conditions such as changing its direction through an interaction, that change will be transferred to the next current present motion conditions. You never change the future because it does not really ever exist. You also cannot change the past motion conditions because all that you have is a set of stored records of what used to be current present motion conditions that no longer exist because they were replaced by later current present motion conditions. You always only exist in the current present motion conditions because that is all that currently ever exists. In this context prophetic narrative that is true (actually comes to pass) would either have to be something that is obvious from the current present motion conditions, is a blind luck guess, or comes from a source that knows for sure what the specific later current motion conditions will be. If God knows the end from the beginning as he says that he does in the scriptures (planned out all motions and all their changes before he actually created the world), it would not be a difficult thing for him to do.

Yes the patterns can make extrapolation of what is called the future obvious in some cases, but the scriptures contain information about things to come that are too specific and disconnected from the main overall flow of motion in the system to be anywhere near obvious, such as predicting the name of a certain ruler hundreds of years before he was born or predicting Jesus’ birth place, that he would be born of a virgin, be put in a manger, flee to Egypt to escape being killed with the other children that were killed in an attempt to kill him, that he would be brought up in Nazareth, etc. again several hundred years before any of it happened. I have not personally counted all of them, but someone once told me that there are something like 240+ predictions about Jesus’ life in the Old Testament that all came to pass.

Without the reprogramming that only comes from God, man is basically a selfish, individualistic creature. Although it is not always the case, for the most part social interaction skills are primarily used to get others to do what is desired for the benefit of the individual using them usually at the expense of the other person. Given man’s condition, if he somehow developed the ability to link minds with others he would just use it in the same way and cause even more destruction.

Man as a whole will not get it together until Jesus returns, but man will leave this planet before that time. There will be a base on the moon that will be the control and transport hub of twelve star systems. It will be several hundred years before that happens, however. Man does go through many trials, but generally does not seem to learn much from them that lasts. Some learn, but those that come after them do not seem to be able to accept the results of the trials of the previous generation, but seem to have to repeat the same errors over and over. You are right that there will be many false starts and dashed hopes along the way. If only not so many of them were needless because they could be avoided.

I looked at your recent post to Matt and noticed something that I should have seen before, but didn’t. Because you do not believe in God as the creator of the world, you consider any such belief to be the product of man that is completely defined by the men that make it up. You, therefore, do not consider that God could actually be a being that exists as an intelligent being that is the prime definer of all things because he made all things. Instead of man defining the meaning of God he has defined the meaning of man and all other things including himself from his personal experience and has given man the definition of himself in the scriptures that he has provided for man to allow man to know him. It is evident that there are people who do make up their own false god in their image or in a way that is pleasing to them, but that does not mean that the true God does not exist or that he just wants to be any way that man decides to define him. In the scriptures God does say that when someone starts to leave him he worships the creation rather than the creator, so that means that he does make his own definition of God with the creation as his source. No matter how many people make up false definitions of who God is, it does not change who he really is because his true definition is his actual characteristics that exist as part of his actual existence. As an example, if a thousand people say that someone is stupid, it would not make that person really stupid if he is really very intelligent. Those who defined him to be stupid would just be wrong. The true nature of the definition of God is generated by the actual characteristics of his existence, not by man’s whim.

About your comment to Jason:

If you leave God (the one that knows all things and the only one that can give us the true global perspective of the world we live in and the only one that knows how all the world works) and technology (the source of most of the useful tools and the source of much of our ability to observe the world directly and indirectly and gain information from those observations that has in tern greatly increased our understanding of the world) out of your consideration when planning how to make the world a better place to live in, I believe that you will effectively be walking around with your head in the clouds without the ability to understand the complex systems that are at work in the world. Economics is one of those complex systems. I am not sure if you are proposing a system where people cannot own private property, but if you are it has been tried before many times and has always failed in the long run. Because people without God are inherently greedy and selfish they will not work hard if they do not directly get the reward for their labor. They will do the minimum and try to take the maximum that they can get from the system. Moreover, there will need to be rulers and they will take extra large shares of what is produced for themselves just like in any other government in this world. These and many other things would need to be addressed. Maybe you could give more details of your plan.

view post as summary

Jason,

Personally I am very much embedded in my world, as the family and the business go back over three hundred years in this area. In fact the farm is art of a parcel an ancestor originally received in 1714 and before that, they lived where Baltimore City is now. I'm a 12th generation American. I say Marylander, except the first few were in Virgina. Which is where I was today, at a horse...

view entire post

Jason,

Personally I am very much embedded in my world, as the family and the business go back over three hundred years in this area. In fact the farm is art of a parcel an ancestor originally received in 1714 and before that, they lived where Baltimore City is now. I'm a 12th generation American. I say Marylander, except the first few were in Virgina. Which is where I was today, at a horse show with my daughter.

How I relate to it is that I did enough traveling when I was young to realize I could never beat what I had here, yet I'm not focused and obsessive enough to compete at the level those I know do, So I've spent my life working for/with various relatives, from my parents to my ex-wife and now for an older sister. This has allowed me the mental freedom to really take stock of the world as best as I could, without having to buy into any restrictive institutional frame of mind. Essentially I've carved out my own little space and am very good at what I do, even if it doesn't pay alot. My network would have trouble replacing me, though they probably will have to someday, as it involves a constant level of personal risk.

Paul,

I realize what science currently think of how the universe works, but they trade one set of questions for another and also don't provide much hope for how it ends. I think ideas will change over the coming years though. One emerging concept is that it doesn't begin with a singularity, but collapses and expands in a cyclical process. This theory raises many issues, such as whether these collapses might be the entirety, or if it is an interlocking network of processes/universes. One of the questions I keep bringing up is that current Big Bang theory argues space itself is expanding, not just the material of the universe. If this is so, wouldn't the speed of light have to increase proportionally? Otherwise it isn't expanding space, but an increasing amount of stable space. This throws a monkeywrench into the Doppler effect explaining redshift, which requires an increasing distance in a stable medium to work.

Yes, a horizon line would limit direct energy, but those sources of direct energy would have their own parameters to draw from. They keep finding what looks like mature galaxies and galaxy formations to the very edge of what is visible, so I waiting to see what new information the improvements on the Hubble will give us.

To the observations about time, we are close to agreement. I would point to your explanation to observe that the only other timeframe to emerge from the present is that information we store of past events, so isn't it worth considering that if motion creates time, it isn't a dimension along which we are traveling from past to future, but the series of events which go from being in the future to being in the past? We thought for much of human history that the sun traveled across the sky from east to west. Now we know it's the earth rotating west to east. The same applies to time. We perceive it as a narrative path from past events to future ones, but it's the other way around. Only the present exists because it is the physical reality and its motion creates these series of events that go through this process.

Just because I am more than a little shy about making spiritual claims of received knowledge doesn't mean I don't think the spiritual side of the equation is fantasy. It just means I think it is far more complex and deeper than we can ever possibly know and is not entirely benign. The problem with defining anything as an entity is that means it is finite. So if there is a specific spiritual point of focus for this particular planet, that doesn't mean it is the God of the entire universe. It is the essence of totalitarianism to claim your particular guidelines are the point of focus for the entire universe. There is no node that is not part of some larger network. Even the Big Bangers are starting to admit that.

I'm not even saying this spiritual entity doesn't know what the future of this particular planet is. I've had enough strange things happen to never say never, but looking for prophesies of Jesus in the King James version of the Old Testament is a bit much. One really needs to go back and examine the evolution of languages and story telling, not just the particular record surrounding the processes which led to this particular version. It is an exceedingly rich and fertile process that naturally creates coherent and compelling narrative. It would be ridiculous to think any such story could survive, if it didn't provide an overall purpose, function, point of reference, story line, with all the requisite characters, plot development, climaxes, etc. You are talking the mission statement of western civilization. It better tie together! Of course, for much of that history, we also thought the sun moved across the sky, pulled by horses. You do need to consider how processes develop from the past into the future, vs, how we perceive them from the vantage point of a future that doesn't see all the choices not taken.

As for technology, as you point out, it does create problems as fast as it solves previous ones and we really are far more limited in terms of resources than most people care to admit. Yes, new solutions will come along, but than so will much trauma. My economic point, if you care to reread it, doesn't say anything about no personal property. It points out that the monetary system is already a public utility and if we were to admit that, it would reduce the tendency to create abstract wealth, which is profoundly destructive of tangible value, since our tangible resources are exploited as rapidly as possible, to create and sustain this bubble of abstract value. So by agreeing that the abstraction of value made it part of the public commons, than people would not destroy their communities and environment to support this illusionary wealth. Money is necessary to a functioning modern society, but than so are roads, which work quite well as public property and there is little inclination to pave everything over, because it is public property. If we treated money the same way, then people would find more natural avenues of personal and communal exchange to complement it. If you take the time to think it through, you would find it genuinely libertarian. Having everyone clinging to "their" money only benefits those really controlling that money. If we grow the brains to understand how it works, we wouldn't worship this noose around our necks!

view post as summary

Jason,

It is good that you see and understand the image of God’s body that he has made in your body. It is important to remember that an image of something is not the same as the real thing. An image is generally less than the fullness of the real thing that it is an image of. For example, a photograph of you is an image of you and has an appearance that is somewhat like your actual...

view entire post

Jason,

It is good that you see and understand the image of God’s body that he has made in your body. It is important to remember that an image of something is not the same as the real thing. An image is generally less than the fullness of the real thing that it is an image of. For example, a photograph of you is an image of you and has an appearance that is somewhat like your actual appearance, but it is only two-dimensional. If you make a moving picture of yourself, it can move around in its two-dimensional world. But it is not really conscious like you are and therefore cannot control where it moves, etc. You do control the members of your body in a way that is similar to God’s control over his body, but God did not burden you with nor allow you to have the ultimate control over your body that he has over his body. There are things that go on in your body automatically that you have no control over such as an individual cell’s production of the proteins that it needs to function properly and to reproduce itself. God on the other hand has complete knowledge and control of all things that go on inside his body. Your cells probably do not have the ability to consciously consider you as god, but they may comprehend at some level that they are a part of a larger overall structure because most cells have some interaction with other cells. You cannot achieve biological immortality because to do so would be contrary to God’s will. Death of the body entered into the world through the sins of Adam and Eve as the punishment for sin and your body is a part of Adam and Eve’s body passed down to you through all the generations between them and you. Your body must therefore die for God’s word to be true. The only exception that I see to that in the scriptures is that those who are in Christ and alive when Jesus returns may not actually go through death, but they will still go through a change so that their body will be able to live the full thousand years of Jesus’ rule on this earth. That looks to be at least several hundred years from now so I doubt that anyone that is currently living on earth will escape going through death. Your cells cannot successfully oppose the natural laws of entropy because they have been established by God as a part of the structure of this world and all things in this world including your cells are subject to the laws that God has built into the world, especially those that pertain to all things in the world like entropy. The only way that could be changed would be for God himself to make an exception to the rules for your sake. He has done so in certain limited cases, such as causing the clothes of the people of Israel to not wear out during their 40 years of wandering in the wilderness to demonstrate his love and care for them, but you have no control over such things yourself. You would have to talk God into doing it for you and he has mainly done such things only to show his power to the world, etc. so don’t count on it. You are right that God wants us to obey his will, not because he is all powerful and could force us to obey him or punish us if we don’t, but because he shows us what he is doing and why and we come to understand that it is because he loves and cares for us and that all he asks us to do is for our benefit in the long run so that we can all live together with him in his body and grow together in love by the effectual working of all of the body members as one in him. There is a war between good and evil both in this world and also all the way up to and including the angels in the third heaven. This is why it is important to compare what you may hear from men or other spirits with the scriptures until the time that God fully dwells in you so you can know if they are of God or not. It is God’s instruction book to you that tells you what good and evil are and lets you know what you are to do and how to do it while you are in this world. If someone (be it man or angel) tells you to do something, but God tells you not to do that in the scriptures, you will know that that spirit is not of God. God does want you to destroy evil and if you look around in the world you will be led to believe that you destroy it by doing the same evil acts yourself, but just being better at it than the bad guy. You see this concept all the time as an example on television and movies where the good guys stop the bad guys from killing people by killing them, etc. If you follow this path however you will just cause more evil in the world. A general principle that God has established that works in the world is that as you sow, so shall you reap. This means that if you try to fight evil with evil you will only plant more evil in the world and it will just make things worse. God on the other hand says overcome evil with good. To those of this world that does not seem like it will work because they are evil and that is all that they know how to use. If you chose to follow God, however, he will show you in the scriptures how to use the weapons that actually work to overcome evil and as he says they are mighty even to the pulling down of kingdoms. The weapons of the evil one only generate destruction including the destruction of those that use them, but the weapons of God are given to make alive and to restore the love and all good things that make life worth living. God will also give you the ability to identify the evil and good intents of others in the scriptures. The price can be high, but it is nothing compared to the reward. To kill a lower creature to save a man would not be against God’s will, but look for other alternatives that God may provide that would be better. It takes continuing in God’s word to learn and understand how to use the best way to do things and how to use the abilities that God gives us to work things in the way that is most pleasing to him in those things that he gives us to do. You have a good beginning understanding about the body, but remember that the true body is the body of Christ in which it is true that the way you treat the other members of the body of Christ is the way that God will treat you. That is why God commands us to love one another even as Christ loved the church (another name for his body) and gave himself for it. Talking to your body will not likely accomplish much, but talking to other members of the body of Christ can be of great value. It is good to compare what you are told by others with the scriptures to see if what they tell you is true though as there are pretenders that would lead you away from the truth and other babes in Christ that may not know the full truth yet and so could confuse you. Prosperity is one of those things that most ask God to give them and if it is his will for you to be rich in this world’s goods that is fine although more may be expected from you in return in terms of using that wealth to do God’s will, but remember that the Gospel was preached to the world very successfully by the twelve apostles and Paul all of which were not rich. As an example, Paul who was the one most responsible for the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentile nations worked as a tent maker to get the money to take care of his needs and also to help others in need and still was able to spread the Gospel to those nations. Wealth can be good, but can also be a trap it depends on whether you can control it and use it to do God’s will or whether it controls you.

It does seem like it would be good if all would be saved or if those that did not choose to be of God did not suffer punishment for it, but remember that God does not force us to be his. He gives us the choice to be his and be saved or to not be saved and not be his. The ones that are not saved are not saved because they do not make the choice to be saved and it is not hard to make that choice. The punishment and death that result from making the wrong choice act as a motivator to move some to make the right choice because of the fear of those things in the same way as the penalty of death or imprisonment for the crime of murder will cause some to not kill for fear of the punishment. It is just another way for God to encourage men to make the right choice. The real problem is not that God is bad to man, but that man is bad to himself. We all have feelings for others such as desires that they be saved, but we must remember that all have been given the right to make the choice for themselves. We can show God’s love for them in our love for them though, and it sometimes can make the difference. Patience is a hard thing to learn, but it is very important to do so. God says in your patience possess ye your souls. For example God says that if you train up your children in the way that they should go when they are young, when they are old they shall not depart from it. I have found that this is true, but you must patiently wait through those years in the middle when they may not go in the right way until they learn better and see that what they were taught is the best way to go. Remember that when you are saved you have all eternity, so what is a few hundred years. You may not get to experience some things in this world that you would desire to see, but will not come to pass until after you leave this world, but you will also avoid many very bad things that will happen later in this world. This is really not a bad time to live in this world compared to many other times. We are each set in the time that is best for us.

There are some things that are important and other things that people make important to themselves, but really aren’t. It is best to see what God says is important in the scriptures and take care of those things because your life can depend on it. Your words tell me that you really know that there are really only two possible real choices. You say that Christians believe what they believe and others believe what they believe. You already know that all the other religions are the same so choosing any one of them gets the same result. The only one that gives a different result is the Christian religion. In the Christian religion God is not just some generalized being that you can define in the way that you desire him to be. He is a being that is very intelligent and does things to fulfill his purposes that please him. He has created this world for a purpose, which is to make a body for himself to be a help to him through eternity. He has designed that body so that it will last without end and so that it will work willingly with him without end. To accomplish that in the development of its members he has chosen to make it in a certain way so that there will be no future divisions or other problems that could destroy the body or make it ineffective. That is why each prospective body member is given the choice to accept his offer to become a member of his body or not. He only wants those who truly desire to be a part of him in his body and are willing to accept his only begotten son Jesus Christ as the head of the body and God as the head of Christ. He has figured out how to make a body in which we can all live without end in love for one another and for him and his son Jesus Christ. This can only work if we accept him in the way that he allows us to in accordance to his will. As an example, Jesus said I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh to the Father, but by me. The only way that you can approach or come to God then is by Jesus Christ. If you try to come to him in some other way you will be rejected. This means that if he is telling you the truth all the other religions that say you can come to God in some other way are false. This means that you must make a choice. You can either choose one of the other pre-made gods or make your own designer god to suit your desires and be accepted by most people in the world as ok or you can choose the one God who says that he is the only true God and that you must accept him and come to him in the way that he desires and has set up for you to come to him to be accepted by him. You should already know which is the real God. You are made in his image. If you were the true God would you want people to just make up what ever characteristics that they desired to apply to you and you would then accept them according to those characteristics treating each person the way that he wants you to treat him or would you want people to know you as you really are and accept and come to you the way that pleases you. Otherwise, do you want to be with people that want to be with the real you or those that only want to be with you if you are something other than what you really are? The answer is even easier if you need for the people to accept you in a certain way so that your plan for an endless life with them will work. You know that a relationship based on a false understanding of who you are by the other person will not likely last. Beside all that the way that you wrote the paragraph tells me that you already know the answer either consciously or subconsciously or some one else wrote it and they know the right answer. That is because when a person writes two groups and then writes a property of each group they will almost always write so that the first property mentioned is the one that applies to the first group mentioned so in your paragraph you have the groups Christians and others followed by the properties culture and evil. So you have Christians, culture (the body of Christ) and others, evil.

You are right that God does desire to have a very close relationship with us as members of his body. The image of that relationship that he has made for us to give us an idea of the depth of that relationship is marriage. Man is made in the image of God and the woman is made in the image of man. In marriage God commands the man to love his wife as Christ loved the church (the body of Christ) and gave himself for it (referring to Jesus’ willingness to die on the cross in place of us so that we could have our sins forgiven and be saved). The woman in marriage is commanded by God to submit herself to the man as the church (body of Christ) is subject to Christ. If a man and a woman are married to each other and perfectly keep God’s commandment to them it would be a true image of the relationship that God will have with us who are the parts of his body. Of course, most people don’t keep those commandments perfectly and then it still would only be an image, so the real relationship will be much better than earthly marriage. The scientific community is made up of people and it therefore reflects the overall condition of the people that it exists in. If the people are mostly of God the scientific community will also be oriented toward understanding God and his creation. If the people are mostly not of God it will be oriented toward attempting to disprove the existence of God. Maybe he just wants you to search out and find the answer yourself. It’s not that hard really.

On you later post:

I am glad that we agree on so many things.

There are both those that are good (of God) and evil (of the enemy of God or Satan) in all levels of creatures from man up to and including the angels. The occult has to do with communication with those who are not of God, but are of Satan. If you are of God it does not make sense to have a relationship with those who are of Satan that desire to destroy you. There really is a war going on and you don’t want to be in the middle of it until you are prepared to survive it. When you are fully prepared you will have Christ and God the Father living in you and you will not need to have others help you because you will have the one that has all the power in you and he will show you what he is doing and you will follow him and do as he does. It will appear to others that you are saying and doing the things, but it will actually be God doing them through you with you in agreement with him. Until that time comes you are given God’s Word (the scriptures) to follow. You must do first things first. The scriptures will lead you through the changes that must first occur in you to make you ready to receive Christ and the Father into you, so you will be in agreement with him at that time. God at times does send angels to men to accomplish certain purposes, but you will not be able to tell an angel of God from one controlled by Satan until you get your spirit exercised in God’s word to know the good and the evil. Actually you can pick up a snake and the only way you can get immortality is for it to be given to you by God. He is the only one that has it to give. The same goes for God’s power. The hellfire and damnation penalty is for those who willingly work for Satan. There are things that have been given to those that live in higher levels of the creation, but with God you do not need to be too concerned about learning how such things work because God can use them if he desires to for you or he can do anything he wants to in the creation even without such things. I do understand your curiosity though and it is up to God how much that he will give you concerning knowledge of such things. Remember that all this creation and all of the things in it will all be destroyed except God’s people at the end of this world, so all the knowledge that you get about this creation will eventually be of little use when it is gone. The new creation is the really interesting one.

view post as summary

John,

The cyclical universe is not a new concept. If our universe was just one of many in a mega-verse it would make very little difference to us because we are trapped in this universe, so we and all that we have built up would still be destroyed when it collapsed. I won’t go into the expansion topic right now, but consider that a decrease in the size of matter, etc. looks the same as...

view entire post

John,

The cyclical universe is not a new concept. If our universe was just one of many in a mega-verse it would make very little difference to us because we are trapped in this universe, so we and all that we have built up would still be destroyed when it collapsed. I won’t go into the expansion topic right now, but consider that a decrease in the size of matter, etc. looks the same as an increase in the amount of space. The red shift is at least partly caused by sub-energy interactions with energy photons.

We can easily see the mechanism in our universe that changes a large amount of matter motion into energy motion just by looking up at the stars or by looking at the blue glow in a nuclear reactor (fusion and fission). Tell me how I can see the mechanism that changes that large amount of energy motion back into matter motion in this universe to balance it out, so it can be stable indefinitely. (I could have talked about fourth and fifth vector motion, but I wanted to keep the concept simple using only common easily understood terms.) The Hubble information may give some usable information, but remember it can’t give any information about anything that might exist beyond the light horizon, so it can’t prove whether the universe is infinite, etc. I am not saying that it can’t be done. I am just saying that man’s current technology can’t do it. I also won’t go into dispersion of structures in infinite systems, etc. right now.

We agree that time is not a physical dimension. Events don’t go from the future to the past because the future does not exist and it, therefore, can’t have any events in it to go anywhere. All events occur in the present and only can change the next present moment when they come. The change of a particle’s direction due to an interaction at the present moment is a continuous process that occurs completely in the present. The present is a dynamic continuous process. The past does not exist either, so nothing can be in the past. The sun does actually travel across the sky from east to west when viewed from a point on the earth. It all depends on the observer’s point of view. According to Einstein, all observers’ points of view are valid and none is preferred over another. I guess that it could be considered that the earth is standing still and the whole universe is just rotating around it. I have always been amazed at how the small engine in my car can rotate the earth under it that way.

It seems to me that if a being lived in an infinite universe and filled it up so that it was all that existed in that universe and was, therefore, infinite. It could still be defined by its properties such as that it is alive, it is infinite, it can do an infinite number of things, etc. and that defining it as an entity (being or existence) with those properties would not make it finite. Here is a question for you, so I can understand your concept of infinite better. If a being existed in a two dimensional infinite universe so that it stretched out infinitely in all directions within its two dimensional universe, but somewhere within it there was a 1 mile square area that it did not occupy, would it be an infinite being because it stretched out in all directions to infinity or would it be finite because it did not occupy that 1 mile square area? Of course, there would be some lines in which it could not be considered to stretch out to infinity in both directions because they would intersect the 1 mile area, but there still would be an infinite number of lines in which it would stretch out in both directions to infinity. It doesn’t seem inconsistent that the God of the entire universe could have created this planet as an important focus point for him in fulfilling his purpose for creating the universe. He could also make whatever guidelines he desired and make them the guidelines for the entire universe, since he made the entire universe. He could give these guidelines to man to follow if he desired to do so and also apply them to all of the universe. It would be totalitarianism, but as the creator of the entire universe it would be his property and his right to do with it as he pleases. Scientists actually desire that the guidelines that determine the operation of the universe are universal rather than having one set of physics rules apply to this planet and another different set apply to another planet or the sun, etc. So far it appears that those rules or guidelines are universal. If you look at this world as a network with each motion within it being a node, God could be looked at as the master node that connected to all motion nodes in this world with the ability to completely observe and control all of those nodes. He would also be the only node that would consist of only himself in the network outside of our world depending on whether you considered a single node network a network or not

I could be wrong, but I believe you have the belief that the scriptures are just a story book made by men to suit men’s plans, needs, or desires and would contain many errors due to translations, etc. compared to the original meanings at the time that each part was made. If that is what you are implying, you make a common error of those who don’t believe in God and that is to assume that there is not God to write the book and therefore it must just be the work of men. Secondly, some say God may exist and the scriptures may have been given to man by God, but it has undoubtedly been changed by men to suit their needs or desires since its original introduction by God when it has been translated into different languages or errors in transcription, etc. would have occurred that would have changed its meaning. All of these beliefs come down to looking at God as though he is just another man with no power to keep men from making such changes or to control the process of making and translating the scriptures, so that no errors were made or if they were made, making it so that they would not change the meaning in any material way. In fact though, if God could make this world, he would be able to keep his word in the world the way that he gave it originally, so that we would get the same meaning in our language as it had in the original language at its original introduction. In the scriptures God says that his word (the scriptures) will outlast this world, so that covers the other main possible problem, which is that God may have given his word to man and then just gone off and allowed man to mess it up because he had no real interest in assuring that it is preserved even though he would have the power to do so. Actually the Old Testament says that God hung the earth upon nothing. It also talks about the circle of the earth, so anyone that read the scriptures would have known that the earth is not flat. I have found that the scriptures describe things about how the world was made that are still not known by man in this world. The Dead Sea scrolls date back to about 100 AD and contain about 95 percent of the Old Testament and it has been found to agree with newer versions of the scriptures such as the King James Version. This would leave a possible window of about 60 years after Jesus’ resurrection for someone to have redone the Old Testament to include references about Jesus, but in 100 AD the concept that the earth was hung upon nothing and that it was not flat, etc. would be well ahead of their time. The concept that all matter and energy, etc. (the forms that exist in the earth) are composed of motion is clearly in the Old Testament scriptures, but even today man does not fully recognize that, even though it should be evident to most by now from observations in the last fifty to one hundred years or so.

It is not the technology that causes the problems it is the improper application of the technology that causes the problems. It’s an operator problem not a problem with the tools. If you count coal, nuclear fuels, oil, natural gas, and renewable fuels there are enough energy supplies to last another 200 to 300 years if wisely used. Food is a little more variable because it depends both on God giving good weather for crops and man expanding the use of modern farm machinery and techniques to poor countries, etc. Things greatly depend on when people return to God. It is true that the abstract wealth is a tool of those who control the economy to maintain their position of wealth in the world by having such great wealth in comparison to the average man that if the value of the money goes down greatly they will still have adequate wealth to maintain their standard of living or even increase it because those without that wealth will have nothing and have to work for them for very little just to survive. Without God people always fear that something could happen that would take everything away from them. No matter how much a person has he can always imagine some catastrophe that would take it all away. In addition to that people are greedy and desire to control others to get them to do what they want. More money makes them feel better about themselves because they can rationalize that the wealth is a sign that they are in some way better than others. It also gives them more control over others. If you shift wealth away from money to ownership of real and personal property, as an example, the wealthy would just take ownership of most of that property leaving most people with very little. The rich would bid up the price for land, houses, cars, furniture, appliances, etc. so high that the average person would have to rent these things instead of buying them. If the economy went bad the average person would not be able to make the payments and would lose everything in the same way that it works with the money now. My point is that the rich will always set up the system so that they are sure that they can maintain their wealth compared to the average person so that they will always be able to maintain their living standard and so that any problem in the economy such as a famine, etc. is always carried by the average people or the poor. I still am not sure exactly what you are saying about the money though. It appears that you are saying that all money would be owned by the public (government) and not owned privately. So, if I went to work, what would I get paid in and if it would be money how would things work differently than they do now? Would it be confiscated in some way if I decided to save it instead of immediately spending it or what?

view post as summary

Paul,

I first began to question the BBT upon learning that gravitational collapse and universal expansion have to be balanced for the universe to be as stable as it is. According to measurements, it appears to be. If the process of expansion is being neutralized by gravity, such that the space between galaxies is expanding at a rate equal to which it is effectively falling into them, where...

view entire post

Paul,

I first began to question the BBT upon learning that gravitational collapse and universal expansion have to be balanced for the universe to be as stable as it is. According to measurements, it appears to be. If the process of expansion is being neutralized by gravity, such that the space between galaxies is expanding at a rate equal to which it is effectively falling into them, where is the expansion? Yes, it gets lots more complicated as to the mechanisms, but that quite a long topic. I should note that the effect attributed to dark energy is close to what a cosmological constant would be and Einstein originally proposed the CC to balance gravity.

What I'm saying about time is that it is an emergent effect of motion, just like temperature. Lawrence has been speculating on another thread about how classical reality emerges from quantum energy. You and I both agree that all that physically exists is this field of energy. The way that the classical reality emerges is through those contracting vortices of structure and expanding bubbles of energy in that field. It creates configurations and replaces them with the next, as this energy moves about. What we think of as time is this emergent effect, not a fundamental dimension. So events, which do not exist except as they are present, go from being future potential to past circumstance. The reason we can never square the circle is because our minds are linear, but reality is a network and so there are always loose threads that our models try to ignore.

You point out Einstein saying all observers points of view are valid, then switch to your religious message and say this planet is special. What if there is another planet with intelligent life on it and those beings had a central idealized individual. Would you say to them that no, their ideal is false and only Jesus is the one true way to the infinite spirit? Yes, lots of signs in the Old Testament do point to Jesus, but put it in the context of the times. Everyone was looking for a Messiah and Jesus did go out of his way to play the role. Remember the part about having them fetch him a donkey, because the prophesies said the Messiah would ride into Jerusalem on one? How about all his followers laying a path of palm fronds. They knew what the prophesies said and they were consciously trying to fulfill them. Now don't think I'm trying to debunk the story. What it did was to create harmony on lots of different levels and tie people together in ways that were not consciously intended. Early Christianity strongly influenced and was strongly influenced by the ancient Greeks. As I've mentioned to you previously, it had a deep emotional connection for them because it reflected their primordial tradition of the Year King. Which was to designate a young male as such, treat him like royalty for a year and then sacrifice him at the spring bacchanalia. So Jesus' crucifixion over Passover provided a connection for them to adopt a monotheistic tradition, since their polytheistic religion was loosing focus and didn't tie them together. That Jesus and Zeus are so phonetically similar probably didn't hurt either.

The fact is though, that it's now two thousand years later and we have to figure out the next step, not just keep pushing the rewind button. For all those people who are not Christians, Jesus really is another tribal deity. There has to be some person or process that can unite all people the way that Jesus united so many, so long ago. Jesus' symbol was the fish and it's been argued that it signified the dawning of the age of Pisces, just as we are a few years away from the actual dawning of the age of Aquarius. So possibly it has something to do with water.

As for the idea that no matter how you structure society, the rich and the powerful will always find ways to enslave the rest of us, keep in mind that one of their primary tools over the centuries has been monotheism, which legitimized the divine right of kings and the whole notion that the source of all life and power was a divine father figure, so that anyone with a position of authority could play the role of minor deity over those under them. That's why I keep pointing out that the universal state of the absolute isn't an ideal. It's essence. The source is what we all rise from, not an ideal we fell from. Those at the top of the social order are there for only as long as they remain there, whether because they are doing a good job and deserve to be, or because they have seized power and are holding on until the pressures grow too great. Remember the father is of the previous generation. It isn't eternal, but a stage we reach and then pass on. Those higher up the evolutionary and social ladder are emergent layers of evolution that depend on those below them, far more than those below depend on those above. In fact, in nature, emergent levels tend to be predatory for the purpose of controlling the growth of those they depend on. If they succeed in destroying the health of those below them, then they are no longer necessary.

If we understood that money really is a form of public utility, which it is, this doesn't prevent anyone from making reasonable use of it, but does mitigate against excessive hoarding of it. It's the hoarding of money that destroys economies, because ever more has to be issued and this drives up prices and forces ever more assets to be monetized to support its value, when it would be far more economically and ecologically wise to conserve limited resources and those which don't regenerate as fast as we use them up. As it is, so much is wasted and destroyed as everyone has to race each other to gain as much wealth as possible, because it's so easy to fall behind otherwise. The way the system is set up now, it is like an enormous hurricane, sucking up as much energy as possible and sending it all crashing back down, when what we really need is a controllable convection cycle that pulls energy out of where is is excessive and puts it where it has the most long term benefit. This doesn't mean lots of large scale social programs to support lots of people who are not giving back to society, but getting back to localized economies and communities that generate and recycle their own wealth and assets. As I said, the banking system should be a function of local government, not huge private or public banks. That way, the organic foundation will be solid enough to support a broader economy, without wasting as much resources. It's an idea to work with, because what we have is close to collapse.

view post as summary

John,

I am not saying that I believe in the Big Bang Theory. What I am saying is that even if the universe is not expanding, it is still not balanced and is going down a one-way road in which matter is changed into energy. The thing that is missing from the stable universe theory is the mechanism that balances out the easily evident conversion of matter to energy by producing a...

view entire post

John,

I am not saying that I believe in the Big Bang Theory. What I am saying is that even if the universe is not expanding, it is still not balanced and is going down a one-way road in which matter is changed into energy. The thing that is missing from the stable universe theory is the mechanism that balances out the easily evident conversion of matter to energy by producing a large-scale change from energy back into matter. You still did not answer my question as to what that mechanism is or how I can observe it. If such a mechanism exists and you know what it is and how it works, show it to me so we can be together in that area of knowledge. So far all I see is the great conversion of matter into energy. This makes sense to me because matter particles are a higher motion content structure than energy photons on the average. This would naturally cause matter to tend to dissipate into energy as a normal extension of entropy. It also makes sense from the standpoint of the scriptures because this world was only intended to be a temporary place for God to use to produce his body and it will last long enough for that to be completed. Yes sub-energy (dark energy to you) has a lot to do with gravity, etc., but I can’t go into that now.

Yes a motion through a distance of space at a specific motion amplitude generates a period and its order of position compared to other such motions. Such periods and orders of position are parts of the standard definition of time. Temperature is an average effect of a large number of motions each traveling with its own motion amplitude through its own distance. Because temperature is an average large-scale effect of many motions, the period and order effects of each individual motion are hidden from view. Actually I go beneath quantum theory to the nature of the structure that generates those effects. At that level one can understand the cause of each quantum effect possibility and can then get back into the situation of being able to accurately predict which of many possible effects will actually happen in a given circumstance (instead of just the probability of each possible effect) once the appropriate technology is developed to permit observation and control on the size and motion amplitude scales involved. Actually, all that really exists is the current individual motions that make up all of the motion entities such as energy photons and matter particles, etc. that exist. The contracting vortices and expanding bubbles are just images made up to explain the fact that they really don’t know what is going on that causes the various possible interaction results and their probabilities of happening in a given interaction. Just because you don’t know why or how some interaction can generate several possible outcomes or figure out which outcome will occur in a particular interaction does not mean that it is caused by pure chance. The fact that all possible outcomes that appear in reality do not always have the same probability shows that there is a hidden structure behind the scenes that causes that variation. An entity’s motion progression through space is accomplished through changes in its position information. The changes in its position information are generated by a combination of its direction and motion amplitude information. The direction and motion amplitude information can only change due to an interaction with another motion. As I have said before several times, we agree that there is no such thing as a physical time dimension.

When I want to pass on some information to someone, but I am not sure whether he is willing or able to accept it, I will often make what is to me a humorous remark that contains the information hidden in it to see if the other person picks it up. The Einstein comment was such a remark. I thought you might get it with the remark about the small engine in the car turning the earth, but it is not important, so I will go on. God does not specifically exclude the possibility of man on other planets, so to me it is an open possibility. The earth is not just this planet. It is the four dimensional system containing the lower four dimensions of the eight dimensional creation. If God did create man on another planet, Jesus may have been sent to that planet also or he could intend that man from this planet will eventually go to that planet and bring God’s word to them in that way. If Jesus had appeared to them also, their central idealized individual would be the same as ours. If they had just invented such an individual that was not real, it would be best for them to come to the true God through Jesus Christ so that they could be saved also. It would just in that case open up another people in another place for those who are of God in this world to preach the gospel to. There are some things like those that you mention that one could consider that Jesus could have read about them in the scriptures and then just have purposely done those things to fulfill the scriptures. That is why I picked some of the things that Jesus could not have controlled if he was just a man. I suppose that you could say that maybe Hared could have been in on the whole thing and sent troops to Bethlehem to kill all the children under two years old there to fulfill the scriptures that said that would happen when he heard that Jesus was to be born in Bethlehem from the wise men (who I guess were also in on the whole thing) just so Jesus’ parents (who would also have been in on the whole thing) would have a reason to flee to Egypt with Jesus to fulfill the scriptures that said that would happen, but to me that would not be very credible. I suppose that there might be some conspiracy theorists that might fall for it though. I don’t know about you, but if I was just a man, I would not want to play a part that would end in terrible torture and death after only three and a half years of fame during which many people would try to kill me. After all if I was just a man, I would really have no assurance that they would not succeed way before the three and a half years was up. God did use similarities in false religions to bring people out of them and into Christ. That just shows how much power he has over things to make them all work together to accomplish his purpose.

I do realize that those who do not chose to receive Christ need to rationalize their choice in their minds and also to others. After all, to turn down the perfect life for eternity would not make one look very wise unless some reason that at least seemed to be reasonable could be thought up. I know. I also went through that phase of life in my rebellious early years.

There have been many times since that time so long ago that Jesus has united large groups of people in Christ in revivals at many places around the world, so he is not outdated as you imply. The fish symbol came about because some of the disciples were fishermen, so when Jesus called them to follow him he said, Follow me and I will make you to become fishers of men. He thereby signified that they would use his word to catch men and bring them to him so that they could be saved.

Before they used monotheism, they used polytheism, and atheism, etc. They will try to use whatever they can to divide and control people. The fact that people use things for wrong purposes does not mean that those things are wrong (or right for that matter). It just means that those people are wrong to try to fulfill evil purposes. Pretty much everything that a person can do can be used for bad purposes. Should we, therefore, consider everything to be wrong and just sit in a corner and do nothing for the rest of our lives so we won’t be thought to be wrong? People have used atheism to put a man up to the people as a God. Is that any better? I have heard that some even put the earth up as God. The only real question is, who is the real God? Is he a big piece of rock, just a man, or the one that created the universe? The fact that people try to imitate him either to try to discredit him or to try to get people to do what they want has no bearing on his reality. I look at it more that the universal state of the absolute (God) is the ideal one that we can rise to (not by our own ability, but by him raising us up to be as he is by his power). I am not sure where you get the fell from part, even God in the scriptures says, All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Notice he says that they are coming toward him not falling away. They just can’t make it all the way because of sin, which is why Jesus came into the world so their sins can be forgiven. In man the father passes away because man the image of God is not as good as the real thing, but in God the Father is eternal life that does not pass away. The problem is that you tend to look at God as though he is just a man. This is normal for those that start to leave God. You can’t help it because God has made man that way. It is one of the signs of that condition.

If I am reading you right you are saying that each city or town should have and own its own banking system to be used only for local purposes. Would each bank issue its own money or would there be a central federal bank that still issued a single currency? Would I be limited to only working, buying, and selling things in the city I lived in? Could I still save some of my money in the city bank or would that be prohibited? Could I put some money in another city’s bank if it paid more interest, etc.? Would there be any commerce between cities and if so, how would that work? What if I lived out in the country on a farm? Hint. Sometimes things that look like close to collapse are just the results of the actions of some to control others and get them to do what they want them to do so they can get gain from them. Of course, many get caught in the middle and either suffer loss or are used as scapegoats to get peoples’ minds off of the ones that really cause the bad effects. It is interesting how, if it was not all planned, the bad real estate loans are set up in phases that are divided up over the period from the end of 2008 to into 2012 as to when the payment increases occur. This period is about the same as that of the great depression of 1929 to 1933. It looks to me like the economy was preloaded to keep the negative bias going for that period. To me it does not seem reasonable that intelligent bankers would allow themselves to be set up for such a fall unless there was some other purpose that they desired to accomplish that they thought this would allow them to accomplish.

On your later post:

From the standpoint of those in charge, the ability to create a variable money supply is considered a positive benefit. If they want to get money from the tax payers for something that would not be approved by them all they have to do is create the money that they need and the tax comes in the form of a decrease in the value of the taxpayer’s money, which they are not likely to connect as a tax to them. One of the operative concepts of the current economic structure is that if you continually add extra money into the system, you keep the economy expanding and going at a good rate. If it is carried out properly, the expansion of the money supply is controlled to keep it in line with the acceptable range of economic expansion. That it wasn’t controlled properly shows either incompetence on the part of those that caused the problem or it was purposely designed according to someone’s agenda to accomplish some other goal. So far the main effect of policies has been that the wealth of most has been diminished by the decrease in value of their assets such as real estate (the average person’s house), the types of investments that the average person is locked into in their government sponsored and controlled savings plans (401K, IRA’s, etc.) such as stocks and bonds, etc. through the mutual funds that they are allowed to have in those plans and by the increases in prices that have been allowed to take place such as in the price of gasoline, etc. At the same time large amounts of taxpayers money has been transferred to the banking and financial industry. At this time the ones that are generally in the best situation are those that put their money into bank CD’s etc. when the interest rates were still high (5 years at 5% or above) and still hold those long term CD’s. Ultimately whether such will come out unscathed depends on whether the banks are allowed to fail also and (if they are) whether the government backs its commitment through the FDIC to reimburse the depositors for their losses. It is evident that the commercial sector will not be protected as can be seen in the way that the automobile industry has been handled, at least from the perspective of the employees who will lose their benefits and likely much of their pay in the bankruptcies. The companies and those who own and run them may come out ok in the long run. This lowering of average wages and benefits is an evident part of the agenda. There are other things in the works that will further lower the effective living standards of most. The currently scheduled changes to infrastructure planed for the next several years are some of these things. New power plants and upgrades to existing plants and changes to green initiatives will be primarily paid for through increased costs to the consumer. This will likely increase bills by 40 to 50 percent or more. The same will apply to sewer, water, and trash service upgrades. This will hit lower income people the most because such things are a greater percentage of their income and they tend to live in older houses that are not as well insolated etc. So far most of the government infrastructure money is aimed more at things such as roads and bridges that the government has not yet figured out how to offload from the tax base into separate payments for individuals as has been done over the years for other public responsibilities of the government such as sidewalks, sewer, water, trash, electric and natural gas power, and telephone services, etc. This means that none of the infrastructure money will filter down to the average person except possibly in the form of better roads and bridges, etc., but the costs of the overall infrastructure repairs, replacements, and upgrades in other areas will filter directly to the consumers in the form of greatly increased bills for the same amount of usage. Most of these increased bills will take place in the 2009 to 2013 time period. This is also the period in which the loaded real estate contracts will continuously phase in higher loan payments for many. Isn’t that an interesting coincidence? Oil and gasoline costs are also currently going back up. You are right that current policies are mostly destructive if the goal is to quickly return the economy to positive expansion, but the question is whether that is the true goal of those involved in making the policies. At this point most of the money that has been given out by the government has not yet entered into the economy at large. The large banks that have received it are not loaning it out for the most part. Instead they are keeping it as reserves to cover for such things as a bank run, etc. The only thing that has slowed down the rate of fall this year has been the effective tax rebate for working people and the $250 payments to people on Social Security, etc., but most of this has now occurred or has been discounted in peoples spending plans and so the fall is likely to increase again in the near future. Most people with revolving credit such as credit card debt will continue to see their bills increase due to increased interest and fee costs and increased minimum payment percentages, etc. For the next 3 to 5 years the stage is set to keep an upward pressure on the costs that need to be paid by most people while at the same time keep a downward pressure on wages and benefits. I’ll leave it up to you to figure out what the results will be and what the intent of those that caused it was. As to whether the goal of those who caused this wealth contraction for the middle and lower classes in the United States extends to completely changing the economic and, or, political structure of the government, as you seem to be embracing, is yet to be seen. People tend to be very foolish in the things that they will allow under such circumstances. You could end up always having to praise fearless leader for his compassion in saving you from the capitalist pigs, or else. Of course, fearless leader will really be the same people that once were the capitalist pigs. You won’t know that, however, so you will be happy that he saved you so you can work hard to preserve the Peoples Republic of the United States, or else.

view post as summary

Jason,

Because man is basically selfish, greedy and naturally desires to fill his life with as much pleasure as possible while at the same time experiencing as little displeasure as possible, it is natural for him to consider anything that helps him to fulfill these goals as love while thinking of anything that is in any way the opposite of these things as not love, but as something bad. ...

view entire post

Jason,

Because man is basically selfish, greedy and naturally desires to fill his life with as much pleasure as possible while at the same time experiencing as little displeasure as possible, it is natural for him to consider anything that helps him to fulfill these goals as love while thinking of anything that is in any way the opposite of these things as not love, but as something bad. In my experience in the natural world without God when I was young, I found that it is not until one has children that he cares for that this concept of love is found to be lacking. When his young child decides that he wants to play in the busy street, he is not likely to tell him “I would not do that myself, but because I love you and I don’t want to hurt your feelings, or make you unhappy in any way I have to say do whatever makes you happy.” Instead because he truly loves his child, he will quickly run and pick his child up and take him out of the busy street to protect his life even if it makes the child unhappy or angry with him. A similar reaction would usually result if the child were a teenager thinking of experimenting with cocaine or other dangerous drugs for the same reason. You then begin to come to the understanding that to love someone is not just the easy part of giving them that warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from giving them everything that they desire and always agreeing with them to make them feel good about themselves, but can also be the hard part of telling them that they are wrong and trying to keep them from doing things that they desire to do that are destructive to them if they do them or that would be hurtful or destructive to others and therefore would be wrong for them to do.

I find myself in that condition with you. I could tell you to just go and do whatever you desire and be happy, which would be easier on me because it would make you happy with me, but at the same time I would know that unless someone later corrected you and gave you the truth you would not be saved. It is God’s will for me to love you in truth, so you can be saved, not just make you feel good, so I have no real choice. I must tell you the truth regardless of how it makes you feel toward me, for your sake. If you come to God and he asks you to do a similar thing for someone else, you will come to understand that although it is not pleasant for you or the other person, it is just a part of your training so that you can learn what true love is and how to give it to others and it can mean salvation to the other person.

The problem is that it is not a matter of what I believe or desire or what you believe or desire that really matters. If you really desire a true love relation with God, what really matters is what God desires. In the scriptures Jesus says, (I am the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.) Your problem is really not with me. It is with God. I have just informed you of what God says about how he will accept you to come to him. If you believe that God did send his only begotten son Jesus Christ into the world to die for you so that you could have your sins forgiven so you can be saved and to lead you to God the Father so you can have a restored love relationship with him and the Father, then you should see that he is telling you how to come to the Father in the way that he will accept you, so you can have the relationship with him that you desire. Since Jesus said, (The words that I speak unto you are not my words, but are of the Father.) Your real problem is not with God’s son Jesus Christ either, but with God the Father who said those things through Jesus. If you really desire a relationship of true love with God you would out of your love and care for him desire to come to him in the way that pleases him. If you are not willing to do so you are just seeking a selfish earthly love. In that case you desire for God to give you what you want and to make you happy, but you don’t really care for what he desires in love from you. In that case instead of desiring for God to be your love, you just desire for him to be your servant. A true love relationship goes both ways.

Not everything that is different from the bible is evil. It is not evil to eat ice cream, for example, even though it is not mentioned in the scriptures and, therefore is different from the scriptures. It is only those things that are contrary to God’s will for you that he has expressed in the scriptures that are evil. In this case since God says clearly that you can only come to him by his son Jesus Christ, if someone tells you that you can come to him in some other way, his action is evil because it is a lie and he is really trying to deceive you to keep you from coming to God in the way that God will receive you. Ultimately, his action leads you away from God and salvation and if followed will end in you not being saved. That is why it is evil because it is an attempt to murder or destroy you. When you understand this you can see that it is not giving you wise counsel, nurture, healing, inspiration, or love. A person that gives that kind of advice to you either actually hates you and desires to destroy you or is confused himself and does not know the truth. That is why I say that if you really want a love relationship with God come to him though the way that he has given to you by the scriptures which is God’s Word or communication to you that is intended to bring you to him and let him tell you directly who he is and how you can get what you desire with him. If you want to start out easy, start with the New Testament. It will not offend me if you go directly to God through Jesus Christ through the scriptures because my desire is that both you and God get the relationship together that you both desire, if your desire is a true love relationship.

God gives blessings to all both good and evil. Jesus said to his disciples, (Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you, and persecute you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.) Receiving God’s blessings is not a sign that you are either good or evil to God because he gives them to both because of his love for all. It is good that you are being nudged to do good works now you are also being nudged to God to do them for him. He will give you the truth so you will no longer need to continue to pursue it and he will give you his Spirit so you can truly inspire others in the truth.

view post as summary

Paul,

I didn't realize the issue of energy turning to matter was even a question! Fission and fusion. Even in Big Bang terms, the universe starts off as an enormous burst of energy and out of that condenses increasingly complex forms of matter. Star dust. Don't plants essentially photosynthesize matter out of light? Yes, I've added some speculation to that, such as that light travels as an...

view entire post

Paul,

I didn't realize the issue of energy turning to matter was even a question! Fission and fusion. Even in Big Bang terms, the universe starts off as an enormous burst of energy and out of that condenses increasingly complex forms of matter. Star dust. Don't plants essentially photosynthesize matter out of light? Yes, I've added some speculation to that, such as that light travels as an expanding bubble of energy and the photon is the initial point of condensation from which mass starts. My observation is that if this is a normal cycle, then gravitational collapse and radiant expansion are the two sides of it and since we(established science) agree that gravity causes the measure of space to collapse, than it seems reasonable to figure it is an effect of light radiation that causes our measure of space to expand, i.e.. red-shift. If light does expand as its own wave, i.e.. a bubble, not as individual photons, this may be part of the reason for the red-shift.

I'm NOT saying physical processes are not deterministic, in the sense that their interactions may be ordered in ways we can't measure! What I am saying is that this process of ordering is future potential, i.e.. the range of possibilities, being ORDERED, i.e. the wave of probability collapsing in the present, into the specific circumstances of the past!!!!!!!!!!! In other words, The future becomes the past. Tomorrow becomes yesterday. The problem is with establishment physics trying to treat time as a linear dimension that goes past to future and having it fan out into the many worlds of probability.

I understood the comment about the car making the earth rotate, I just didn't comment on it. The same principle applies to time as well. We think of time as going past to future, but the events we use as markers are going the other way, from future to past. See above.

It's not that I'm atheistic, rather I think reality is in its wholistic sense, a field effect, not just a bunch of point particles interacting and creating the field effect. Essentially the points are interactions, rather than distinct units. What is a set, other than the relationship between the inside and outside. This conundrum seems to be what string theory is about. We want to describe reality in terms of these points, but they keep breaking down into energies and ordering, vibrations and dimensions. How this ties into religion is that the monotheistic paradigm is also built up from this point of focus concept. As with early neurology looking for the seat of consciousness within the brain and finally and grudgingly accepting it's a field effect among all the neurons and their feedback loop of sensory input and cognitive output, so to do I think theology is going to reach a point where it is accepted that consciousness is a field effect without a specific address.

Yes, Jesus is the conceptual focal point of western civilization and there might be some larger sense orchestrating the process, but I think it will eventually open up into some larger understanding of reality that doesn't need a specific point of reference around which to harmonize. The problem with the concept of meaning is that meaning is what's left when all that's meaningless has been distilled away. Since everyone has a slightly different perspective, we end up destroying everything because we all have slightly different priorities and what is meaningful to one, is meaningless to another. The aliens are just not going to buy into Jesus.

As for the fallen part, that's pretty much from Genesis, the apple of knowledge, original sin, etc. Remember the part about getting kicked out of the Garden of Eden and knowing pain, death, etc?

I'm saying the currency should be national, but the banking system should be incorporated at all levels, national, state and local. That way, every entity, from large corporations to individual people, would bank with those systems that funded the services they used. If you didn't like your local bank, you could use the system in another locale, but it would use profits in its area. If you really didn't like the way the system was being run, you could move to another town. That would encourage the elected officials of any area to do the best they could, or they would lose citizens and business to better run areas. And likely get voted out by those remaining.

Yes, the money supply has to increase along with the economy, but one of the main causes of it increasing much faster than the real economy is the belief that everyone hoarding as much as possible makes everyone richer. There is no happy medium between the collective and the individual. It is a constant swing between one to the other, as particular individuals gain lots of power and influence and lose it to others, collectively or individually. Political power was itself originally a function of personal influence and property. It was called monarchy. We have allowed that patent to expire and now political power is a collective trust. Do you care to go back to the old way? Money was also invented and has evolved as a form of individual power. Someone once sent me a note from a bank in Illinois with a picture of an ancestor on it, since he founded the bank and it issued its own currency. In fact I get a few hundred dollars a year from an an old family trust because one of my ancestors, Louis McLane Jr. was president of Well Fargo back in the 19th century. The fact is though, that with the creation of the Federal Reserve system, Old John D. Rockefeller outsmarted himself. While it may be a private system that is run by and for the banks, by making the Federal government ultimately responsible for its stability, he took the first step toward making money a public trust. It is no longer based on gold reserves, etc. It's entirely based on the ability to tax. Which means its strength is based on a healthy tax base, not the power of the wealthy. So as I said before, the law of supply and demand applies to capital. If you don't have healthy demand for capital, i.e. well treated and prosperous borrowers, you can't have a healthy supply of capital. You just have periodic credit collapses and all the social and environmental damage they incur.

view post as summary

Paul,

I am speaking from personal experience when I say this. There is nothing positive to be gained by a head-on confrontation with you or other Christians I have met; but there are deep fundamental disagreements. Let me make my point with a story. There is a man who is dropped off in the woods, but his memory is wiped clean. He can talk and reason, but he doesn’t know anybody or...

view entire post

Paul,

I am speaking from personal experience when I say this. There is nothing positive to be gained by a head-on confrontation with you or other Christians I have met; but there are deep fundamental disagreements. Let me make my point with a story. There is a man who is dropped off in the woods, but his memory is wiped clean. He can talk and reason, but he doesn’t know anybody or anything about the locals. But he is hungry and scared. Let’s say he is discovered by a lonely women who takes him in, feeds and clothes him. She has two neighbors and they argue about religion all the time. One day, the man who lives across the street comes over and says hello; he is friendly and for all practical purposes, he is a good man. He is looking for new members to join his church. Here are his reasons for why the man should join his church.

1. My God is the Creator is must be worshipped.

2. Any and all other religions are abominations to God and those worshippers are lost, rejected by God and will probably go to Hell.

3. You must, and I repeat, MUST, approach God only through our scriptures or you are lost and will probably burn in Hell.

4. I can Save you from the eternal torment that awaits you, but you must read only our scriptures. Anything else is spiritual poison that will cause you to burn in Hell.

5. I say this by the authority of what is written in our Holy book. Anything outside of this holy book is of evil, Satanic, of the devil and will cause you to roast in Hell like a stuck pig.

6 It says here in our holy book that it is better that we pluck your eye out or cut off your hand if it’s necessary to Save you from Hellfire and damnation.

7. Our God is a loving God.

The man runs into the lonely women’s tent and hides behind her. He is having a major anxiety attack. She loves and comforts him. The next day, the man goes outside and bumps into another a neighbor. The frightened man asks, trembling, are you going to try to save me from hellfire? The neighbor, a scholarly man holding a book entitled, “The Physics of the Occult, Explained”, begins to speak. Sir, do not be frightened, I can explain the mystery of God to you.

1. I have found the one true God and he is a loving God who wants his children to be happy.

2. The God Power can be channeled to heal, raise the dead, produce miracles and manifest everlasting life. This same power can be misused to create Hellfire and pits of daemonic damnation; for those that create such abominations to control and frighten others shall reap first what they have created.

3. One does not use the power of God to beget evil for that evil shall visit unto you. You shall reap that which you sow.

4. The powers of Creation are handed unto thee, miracles and everlasting life are thy birthright. But a warning to those whose sins and imperfections are not cleansed, such powers may bear a weight too great for your soul to bear. It is better to leave such powers to those who are the jewel of compassion and wisdom.

5. To the one whose soul is cleansed of sin, whose heart is pure and whose knowledge and wisdom are true, go forth and create the blessings that others may use and enjoy. Be mindful of what you create, for you too shall reap of your own creations.

6. God loves us and wants us to be purified of sin. He wants us to accept him into our heart so that He may bless our lives and use us as instruments to bless the lives of others.

7. Jesus is perfected in the eyes of God. Jesus Christ resurrected and ascended into heaven to live with God, forever. So too shall others demonstrate Christ consciousness, which means love, compassion and perfection. So too shall others find their way to God, happiness, and everlasting life (which means immortality).

view post as summary

John,

Yes it is a great problem for anyone who believes in a balanced or steady state type of universe because the fusion reactions in stars are slowly converting all of the elements lighter than iron into heavier elements so that eventually they will all be gone and the fission reactions that occur naturally in the heaviest elements are slowly breaking them down to lighter elements....

view entire post

John,

Yes it is a great problem for anyone who believes in a balanced or steady state type of universe because the fusion reactions in stars are slowly converting all of the elements lighter than iron into heavier elements so that eventually they will all be gone and the fission reactions that occur naturally in the heaviest elements are slowly breaking them down to lighter elements. Eventually all that would be left would be the middle elements. Both of these types of reactions convert matter into energy in the process. Unless there is some reaction that somehow restores these elements by converting energy back into matter, in such a way as to replenish them, the time will come that stars will no longer have fuel to burn. Fusion and fission reactions produce almost all of the usable energy in the universe. Once they are gone the only way for man to get useable energy will be to convert matter particles to energy photons through processes that man is not yet aware of. In the long run all matter would be converted into energy. At that point the world could not support life and would essentially be dead. There is more to it than that, but you should be able to get the idea. The first motion in the universe was in the form of sub-energy, then energy came into being and last of all matter was formed. The problem is that energy photons contain more motion than sub-energy particles and matter particles generally contain more motion than energy photons. Motion generally flows from higher motion areas to lower motion areas due to entropy so that in the end the overall area of space in a closed system contains the same amount of motion per unit of area. In an open system, the motion spreads out in all directions into all connected areas that have a lower motion level. If the open system is real world space, which contains very little motion on the average, the motion sink effect dissipates the motion until it is essentially the same as that of empty space unless the area that is dissipating the energy contains an internal source of motion generation such as a star or is close to an external source of motion that contains a higher motion content than it does such as an area of space that is close to a star. Although stars can maintain an output of a great deal of motion in the form of energy photons, they do so by removing it from matter by combining two light atoms like hydrogen together to form a single heavier atom like helium. The helium atom contains a little less total motion than the two hydrogen atoms do. This means that a helium atom cannot break down into two hydrogen atoms again unless extra motion (energy) is added. That is really what entropy is all about. Motion naturally disperses. To concentrate it again requires the addition of external motion. In the process of concentrating it again some of the external applied motion is added back in to bring the total motion up to the level to the point that there is enough in the area so that the breaking down of the helium atom into two hydrogen atoms becomes a flow of motion from the higher external motion into the lower motion content helium atom to bring its motion content up to the point that it can divide into two hydrogen atoms again. That operation causes the motion content of the external applied motion to decrease by the amount that is added to the helium atom to cause it to divide. The total motion content of the applied external motion and the two hydrogen atoms is the same as it was before the change with the external motion and the helium atom. At this point it sort of sounds like you have just transferred motion from the applied external energy motion back into the matter with no cost. The problem is that when you concentrate all that energy motion into any real world container, a great amount of it leaks out of the container and is dispersed into space. In practice you dissipate more motion into space than you concentrate back into the matter, so the overall end result is an increase in entropy. Remember that all that external energy motion ultimately came from matter somewhere else. Even if you look at the big bang theory you see that in the beginning the universe would have contained a very great amount of motion under a great amount of pressure because of the small size of the universe at that time. The theory is that at some point due to expansion the pressure got to a point that matter came into being. As the universe continued to expand and the motion in it continued to disperse, the amount of motion in space became low enough so that the creation of matter could no longer take place because it now would be an up hill operation requiring more motion concentration than was available. This is just a general idea, but you should get the concept. It would actually be more complicated than that. Photosynthesis is a chemical reaction. It only affects how existing atoms are joined together with other atoms into molecules. It mainly involves only the outer shells of electrons in the atoms as far as how they are shared between atoms, etc. No new matter particles are produced and the internal nuclear motions are not changed (The number of protons and neutrons in the nucleus of the atoms remains the same, etc. Even photosynthesis requires external applied energy to work because it is an up hill reaction that increases overall motion content of the molecules. It gets that extra energy from the transfer of matter into energy in the sun that is received here on earth as sunlight. We already previously went over the expanding bubble theory of light and it won’t work because the force at any point on the bubble would decrease with the square of the distance from the center (starting point of expansion) of the bubble. After a short distance there would not be enough force at any point on the bubble to form a photon. It would certainly be too weak when that distance became billions of miles.

You are still thinking quantum physics when you talk about range of possibilities and the wave probability of collapsing. When you get below to the level that produces those apparent quantum effects, you find that they are caused by the effects of the various continuous motions within the interacting particles of energy and matter. To determine the actual outcome of an operation you just need to know about and include the various states of all of these motions in all of the interacting particles at the point of the interaction. The big problem is not to figure out the various motions involved and how they can produce all of the possible outcomes. The big problem is to develop your technology to the point that you can sense and properly phase all of those motions at the point of interaction to produce the specific outcome that you desire. Once you can do that you will be able to always produce the specific outcome from the interaction that you desire. At that point all motions and interactions are again seen to be completely deterministic. At that point in your knowledge if you could stop all motions in the universe and find out the position, direction of motion, and motion amplitude of each motion, you could calculate all of the motion progressions and interactions and outcomes of those interactions and the motion progressions resulting from those interaction outcomes, etc. you could know for sure what the future would be like in every detail when you started the motions again from where you paused them, at least as far out as you calculated them. The only thing that could mess you up is if God decided to change any of them, etc., which he has done from time to time. From this you should be able to see that it is the present conditions of all the motions in existence that determines how they will be at a later present that does not yet exist that you might desire to call the future. The present holds the seeds of all later presents within it, not just some possible potential of what those later presents could be, but all of the actual details of all of those later presents within it and each of those later present moments is completely predetermined by the state of the properties of all of the current motions that are now in existence. Except as they are altered by God. In the same way the present properties of all of the motions in existence could be extrapolated in reverse to fully understand all previous presents that you would likely want to call the past. In actual fact, except as altered by God, any present moment’s motion conditions holds within it all of the ones before it and also those after it, but the current present motion conditions are the only ones that we have direct access to and the ability to directly examine.

See my comments in the above paragraph.

I know that you are not an atheist because if you were you would not want to talk about God at all. The third and last step that a person takes that completely separates him from God is to not want to keep God in his remembrance. At that point God gives him over to Satan and he will then do all kinds of evil. He will actively try to remove anything that has anything to do with god out of his life at that point. A country as a whole exhibits the average conditions of its citizens and the United States currently exhibits the signs that God has given for a person that is taking the second step away from God. If the movement away from God continues, the United States will not be a very good place to live in once the third step has been taken. What I am telling you is that once you get below the quantum level it is the motions of the particles and their interactions that again determines the outcomes. The particles are not point particles, however. There is the possibility of particles traveling from other fifth vector levels, etc. and appearing here, but in general they don’t just come into and go out of existence as is proposed by quantum theory. Man is just over simplifying things by considering all particles as point particles and not knowing about and, therefore, taking into account the various internal motions that are present inside of the particles and their effects on interactions between particles. Once you understand these things you can then see how God could have planned out the whole progression of the universe before he made it and began by introducing the motions into it in the way that would result in it going down the path that he desired. He would also have planned any changes to it that he desired to make as it progressed to get all of the outcomes that he desired. Man’s spirit and part of his soul is not made of the matter and energy of this world.

The problem with your concept is that the world doesn’t work that way. In reality the world works by defined ordered rules of meaning. When you start your car it doesn’t start out in a random possible direction and after it (or you) finds out that its current direction is wrong then select another random direction until it has distilled all of the wrong directions away and then go in the right one. It goes in the direction that is defined and determined by the direction that the wheels are aimed in. When you turn the steering wheel there are predetermined meanings recorded in the various steering mechanism parts that determines the change in the direction of the heading of the wheels. The things that we make are composed of a large set of coordinated meanings formed into structures that play their parts out according to those built in meanings. The world works that way also. What we need to do is to look for and understand all of the various meanings that God has placed into it. Science, properly applied looks for and finds those meanings and uses the understandings gained to look for and understand the next deeper set of meanings, etc. It is not a matter of looking randomly at all the possibly infinite number of possibilities and hope that the right one just happens to fall out to you after you have distilled all of the other ones away or eliminated them. That is the problem with a lot of the current approaches to science like string theory. Instead of looking at what is observed and getting the understanding of those observations and then generating a theory that explains the observations and then looking for the new observations that the theory suggests should be able to be seen, etc., a mathematical theory is made up with much of it not tied to any real observations that comes up with so many unknown variables that are not tied to anything in reality so that you end up with about10X10^500 possible combinations and you have no way to figure out which one if any actually represents the real world. I guess they just follow your method and randomly examine them all until they have distilled away all the wrong ones for the next several thousand years to figure out which one is the right one, unless none is in which case you generate some new random math theory and try again. It is true that without God people are selfish and individualistic and mainly work to do those things that they think will get the greatest gain for themselves without much consideration for others or the overall results of what they are doing, but the only way to cure that is for them to come to God and get the software upgrade that works to change them in all the right ways so they can all have the true perspective and be able to work together in love for one another. What makes you think that the aliens haven’t already bought into Jesus, at least the ones that you really need on your side to survive. It could be that otherwise you might not be here now. Or you might just be slaves of those that would use you to take away all of your resources and then leave you to die.

I can see how you could interpret that part in that way, but it is interesting that God says that they came short of his glory because of their sin. With God it is more that man came part way to him, but just couldn’t make it over that hurdle of sin, so he sent his son Jesus Christ into the world to help man get passed that hurdle by being able to have his sins forgiven, so he can continue the rest of the way to him by Jesus.

I thought that there already are banks incorporated at all of those levels although I am not sure about the local. I know that there are small banks in some small communities that primarily attend to the needs of the local population regardless of how they are incorporated. If you can go to banks anywhere, people will still mostly go to where they can get the best terms on the type of banking that they need, which is what you have now. If a big city bank pays a higher interest rate on their CD’s than the local bank, someone that finds out about it will likely go to that bank to get his CD’s out of greed. Because he can move if things get bad in his local area, he will not likely consider it that important to do everything for the benefit of the local community, especially if it costs him in less return on his money, etc. Those running the local banks would also likely invest outside of the local community if it gets them a better return. The city that I live in caters primarily to the rich. Large amounts of city taxpayer money is spent making Large museums, theaters, convention centers, and sports arenas, etc. and when they are done the ticket prices are so high that a lot of the middle to lower income people can’t afford to go to them. Then because not enough tickets are sold to keep them going, they take more of the taxpayers money to keep them operating for those few that can afford to pay the price. The people never seem to learn. They always get talked into voting for the next thing that comes along. Of course, many of the ballots are purposely made to be confusing as to what is really being voted for and usually keep the full costs hidden until after approval, etc. What is happening is that many of the middle and upper class people move out to the suburb communities that are incorporated so they don’t have to pay the high taxes, but are still close enough to the attractions that they can go to them easily. The main city communities are getting poorer as a result. So you see another example of greed in action.

Actually the real problem is not that people are hoarding or saving their money, it is that so many people are spending more than they make and ending up in great debt to the point that they can’t pay even the minimum payments. The country would really be in much better shape if everyone spent less than they made and saved a reasonable amount of their money so that they always had a positive net worth. It would be expected that most families would have to buy their first home on time, but if wages and house prices are reasonable they should be able to pay it off in ten years or less and then be out of debt for the rest of their lives. I was in the lower middle class during those years and it took me nine years to pay mine off. If this pattern was followed by all, only about one fifth to one fourth of the people would be in debt at any time and a downturn in the economy would not have nearly as bad or as prolonged an effect on the people. Except for a house all other things can be bought for cash as they can be afforded. Although a new car can be too expensive to afford for someone starting out, a used car can usually be gotten in an affordable range and a person can then work up to a newer car each time a replacement is needed until a new one can be afforded. After a generation or two of proper behavior by all in this way, people would have enough money saved when they passed away to leave good inheritances to there children so that the next generation might be able to buy their house outright instead of going into debt to get their first house. The result would be a downturn proof economy. There are basically two problems that cause people to not live this way. First, people are brought up to look only at the short term and not the long term results of their actions and have not been brought up to learn to have patience, but instead are encouraged to believe that they need everything immediately. Debt also tends to be promoted as a good thing instead of as a failure to control ones desires. Have you seen the commercials on TV that encourage people to sign the title of their car over to get a loan so that they can go on a vacation? Secondly, as the American people have been systematically robbed of their wages and benefits in recent years especially since about 1973, wages have in many cases gone down to the point where one cannot make enough money to have a reasonable living let alone save any money. This is especially true for those who are trying to raise a family. The bad thing is that the downward direction is likely to continue for quite some time yet. The same things apply to the country as a whole. At the end of World War II the United States was the richest country on earth. In a little over fifty years it has become the greatest debtor nation on earth. In the last forty some years it has gone down from about thirty-five percent of the world economy to about twenty percent. At that rate of decline it will only be about five percent of the world economy in another forty some years. With somewhere around five percent of the world’s population it would no longer be a very important country in the world. If every person and every company in the United States had a positive net worth there would be no major downturns in the economy. It is the heavy leveraging of debt that makes it so susceptible to major downturns when all of that credit collapses after some of the debt becomes unmanageable. The big crash in the United States will come when one of the nations that holds a lot of American debt decides it is too dangerous to hold any longer or for some reason decides to act against the United States and sells large amounts of the U.S. debt that they hold all at once. As the U.S. economy becomes a smaller part of the global economy that will be more likely to happen because there would be less of a negative effect in their economy as a result of doing so then. Those who are just starting out could see that condition come about before they get to retirement age. Of course this is just another part of the blessings to curses change as more people leave God. Actually God’s form of government is a kingdom, but it works differently from earthly kingdoms. In earthly kingdoms the king takes resources from the people to have what he needs to run the kingdom and also have what he desires for himself. The higher up someone is in such a kingdom the more of the people’s money he can get to use to fulfill his responsibilities to the king and to have for himself. In God’s kingdom, God is the source of all things so he supplies everyone else’s needs. Those who are high up in the kingdom have the most responsibility to disperse the needed resources to the people. Every one there always has a positive net worth because all of his needs are supplied by God just like all of your body parts are supplied what they need in your body.

view post as summary

Jason,

I do have compassion for your situation because I spent over twenty years in a similar condition. When I was young, I was told that if I prayed to God when I needed help he would help me. When a time came that I could not get something that I thought I needed very much, by my own works, I prayed to God and did not get what I prayed for. From this I drew the conclusion that God...

view entire post

Jason,

I do have compassion for your situation because I spent over twenty years in a similar condition. When I was young, I was told that if I prayed to God when I needed help he would help me. When a time came that I could not get something that I thought I needed very much, by my own works, I prayed to God and did not get what I prayed for. From this I drew the conclusion that God might not exist (mostly out of anger because I did not get what I wanted, which had to do with my desire as a young child that my parents not get divorced, but that their love for each other and for my four brothers an I be restored to its fullness). It seemed to me that my desire was something good for all involved, so I couldn’t understand why God did not give it to me. Even then I could not bring myself to completely separate from God as an atheist, but instead I became an agnostic with the belief that God might exist or might not exist, but I did not see enough evidence to be sure either way. I had been brought up in Christian doctrine to some degree. I had not been led to actually read the scriptures, but mainly had been given books to read that gave general principles. Mostly it contained such things as that I should love my neighbor and included a few details about what that meant like that I should not kill or steal, or commit adultery, etc. I decided to do those things and thought that if I did them then if God did exist he would surly save me, as I had heard something about the need to be saved, but not many details. I looked at some other religions that mostly said that I should look inside myself to find God, but when I honestly looked at myself I found that no matter how deeply I tried to look into myself, I could not find in me anything worthy to be called God. I had been told that God created the world so I understood that he had to be of much greater intelligence and have much greater abilities to do things than I had. Some said that God could be found by meditation, but although it may be relaxing I could not find a way to have the intelligent conversation with God that I knew he had to be capable of and that I greatly desired to have with him that way. Some talked about channeling God’s forces, but they could not demonstrate them to me themselves and as hard as I tried myself I found that I could not do such things either in all honesty. I eventually gave up on finding God directly, because all the ways that I tried did not work and he did not seem to be interested in having the conversation with me that I desired to have with him. I began to see if I could find any signs of God’s existence that he might have left for people to find in the world that he had created. I looked at men’s philosophies and found all of them to be lacking in any help. It seemed that most were more interested in explaining away reality instead of understanding it. I next looked at science and found that at least there seemed to be an attempt to understand the world around me. After many years of work, I had put together many concepts that gave me understandings of how many things worked in the world. I could find no one else in the world that had figured out these things. It meant that the world was a much different and much larger place than others around me had found, which was very exciting to me. It also meant that the world was slowly aging and dieing, which was depressing because it seemed that there could be no long-term meaning to a world that was going to end because all one could build in knowledge and structures, etc. in the world would ultimately be lost. During this time I had been very lonely and I found myself crying out to God to give me someone to spend my life with in this world. Not long after that I met the woman that became my wife and we had three children together in a few years. I was much happier after that. That was the first time that it looked like God had actually answered my prayer, but I was too logical to allow myself to think of one such happening as more than coincidence. She was a Christian and wanted to take the children to church and since I still didn’t know if God existed or not I thought it would not hurt anything so she did. Once when she was at church and I did not have anything to do, I saw a copy of the scriptures on the coffee table and thought it might be interesting to look at it. I had found that often books were written so that the overall point of the book was brought out best and most to the point at the end of the book, so I started with the last book of the scriptures, The Revelation of Jesus Christ. As I began to read it and got to the place where John was taken up into heaven, I found to my surprise the complete pattern of the concepts that I had figured out about how the world was put together in front of me in the scriptures. I could find no other source of those concepts anywhere in the world and I had looked for some time, but here it was in a book that had been written almost two thousand years ago. As I looked at other parts of the scriptures I found other places that agreed and some places that added to the information that I had found out and increased my knowledge greatly over time. I finely came to the conclusion that this book could only have been written by the one who had created the world. At last I was beginning to get the intelligent conversation with God that I had desired at least in a letter written to me that told me much about him and answered more and more of my questions as I delved deeper into his word. I found that God said that the world would indeed wax (grow) old, but it now made sense because I found that he also said that this world was only intended to be a temporary world in the first place, in which he is creating his body. Not only that, he told me that he is going to create a new much better world for him to live in his body in. He told me that he loved me and that I could be a part of his body and have eternal life in him. I knew that I was not really worthy because I found that contrary to my belief before I had come to know God all my works to do good to others was not enough because I found that I was only keeping the second commandment in doing that and not really doing that very good compared to all that he said it meant to keep it. I found that I was not keeping the greatest commandment of all, which was: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. I found that in all those years that I had not really believed fully in his existence, I was not pleasing him and therefore not truly loving him because God said: without faith it is impossible to please him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. As much as I had thought that I was a good person keeping God’s commandments, I found that in fact I was a miserable failure. I felt bad about that, but God first showed me that I was not alone in that condition because he told me: All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That made me feel a little better because at least everyone else was in the same boat, but that was still not too good because the boat was sinking. Then God showed me that he had foreseen that problem from the beginning of his creation and had prepared a way for us to be freed from our sins, (he had previously told me that our sins had made us all worthy of death). He had sent his beloved only begotten son Jesus Christ into the world to live a perfect life so he would be worthy to live and not die. His son had then willingly given up his life for us and died in our place so that we could have our sins forgiven by believing in him and receiving him as our Lord and Savior. Because we receive forgiveness for our sins and, therefore, receive our life through Jesus Christ, God saw it right to give Jesus to be the mediator between him and man (the one whom we must go through to come to him) and to be Lord or ruler over us. This is not bad as some seem to think because he both knows and understands how to communicate acceptably with God the Father and also knows and can have empathy and compassion with us because he lived in this world as a man and knows of our weaknesses first hand, so he can communicate acceptably with us also. As an example, if we fail and sin, he acts as our advocate before God the Father for our sin to be forgiven. He passes on to us the things that the Father desires to communicate to us in the way that we can understand and accept and he passes on to the Father the things that we desire to communicate to the Father in the way that we would truly desire, but can’t find the way to properly express. The best example of how it works is to look at the example that God made. We are made in his image and in us we have a spirit that generates all of our intents or purposes as to what we are to do. Our spirit communicates with our soul, which is half made not of flesh like our spirit and half made of flesh like our body. Our soul receives the intents of our spirit and translates them into thoughts. These thoughts are then sent to our body to generate actions in our body and the body carries out those actions. Our spirit is the image of God the Father. Our soul is the image of God’s son Jesus Christ. Our body is the image of God’s body, the body of Christ of which we can become members or parts. It also works in the other direction also so the body can communicate its needs and desires to God the Father through his son Jesus Christ. If someone tries to come to the Father directly instead of going through his son the first problem is that he cannot get his sins forgiven in any other way than through receiving Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior so he would be trying to come to God when he is still in his sins and worthy of death. This would not be a good idea. Secondly we are nothing in our ability to think in comparison to God. He says that his thoughts are above our thoughts and his ways are above our ways. All we have to do to plainly know that is to look at the creation that he has made. We really don’t know how to talk to him acceptably, especially before we have been taught about him through his Word, Jesus Christ. The best news of all though is that when we learn God’s commandments and come to be able to keep them through Jesus Christ being our Lord and are thus prepared to receive him, Jesus promises to come into us and live in us. Not only that, Jesus says that God the Father will also come into us and live in us. At this point you can have what I believe you really desire, which is to communicate with God without going through the scriptures because you will have acquired all that you need to obtain from the scriptures to be able to know God and communicate acceptably with him. At this point he will bring to your remembrance any part of the scriptures that you need to communicate to someone else when he sends you to preach the gospel to others. He can also work through you his power to heal and bring back to life and other powers that you have shown a desire to have when you preach the gospel to others in truth as a witness that you are of him and speaking his word to them in truth.

Lets look at your points and try to examine them in a little more detail to see how they hold up. I will try to expand or change them to be in line with my true intents for man number 1 (I assume he is the one that you are likening to me) and point out what I see in man number 2.

1. God is the Creator and he loves you and desires to have you accept him as your God. If you do, you will be his people and receive all of the benefits that come with that position. As his people he will expect you to do according to his will or in other words serve or worship him. He has given you free will and you can either accept his offer or refuse it. It is your choice. If you choose to refuse his offer you are not required to worship him, but you also do not get the benefits that those who do choose to become his people receive. There are many benefits that his people receive. The greatest benefit is to have eternal life as members of his body.

2. God has made this creation to use in making his body. This body must be made so that it can be a help to him throughout all eternity with no divisions or fighting or other problems that could either destroy it or make it not function properly for him. Because of this he has chosen to construct it in a manor that will fulfill his requirements. Those who accept the offer to become parts of his body must agree to those requirements, which include among other things that they accept his only begotten son Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and as their mediator between them and God. Refusal of these things shows that they have no real intent to become responsible members of his body. They are in essence refusing to become body members by their own choice and are rejecting themselves from it.

3. Because God has chosen Jesus Christ to be the only mediator between him and man, you can only come to God the Father by him.

4. God can and will save you from the death that you deserve because of your sins, but you must believe in and receive his son Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior so that you can get your sins forgiven and be freed from that death and be able to become a member of his body and have eternal life in him.

5. Anything that is contrary to God’s will is evil.

6. You turned that one around from the way that Jesus said it. He said that it would be better for you to do those things to yourself if it would prevent you from having to experience the conditions of hell to show you just how bad a place Hell is, in that it is worse than those things.

7. God is Love. He offers you the perfect eternal life, but in order to allow you to have free choice he also has to provide an alternative. In order to encourage you to make the good choice he made the other choice very bad. He says I set before you life and death, choose life for why would you die. The real question is not whether God loves you. The real question is do you love God? If you do it is an easy choice to choose the perfect eternal life with him over eternal punishment. It can only be those that hate God greatly, that would turn down the perfect life with him to spend eternity in torment without him.

1. Very good as written in that there is only one true God and he does desire for his children to be happy in his love for them and in their love for him and one another.

2. God’s power is accomplished by God himself either directly or through someone who is his. God actually does the work although it may look like the man did it. It is in the hands of God alone to give everlasting life to whom he will. God made both heaven and also hell for his own purposes. These places along with death hold the issues from this world until the judgment at the end of this world. Heaven also has many other purposes. Man could not make either of them. If God really gave his power to create and destroy to man, this world would have been destroyed long ago. This does show however a selfish desire to have God’s power instead of accepting God’s use of it. The evil in the world goes all the way up to the angels in heaven in that Satan an angel is the head of it. As such he is above man in power and can fool some, but God has the true ultimate power over all of the creation including the angels and he will do according to his will. We who love him accept and rejoice in his use of his power because we know that he works all things for good for all who love him, for those who are the called according to his purpose. We don’t need to channel his power. Instead he uses his power through us as he wills.

3. It is not possible for a man to use God’s power for evil as God is always in control of his power and won’t allow it to be used for evil. Man can only do those evil things that God allows as the choice that is opposite from good within the range of the abilities that he has given to man at any given time. Those who are above man can only do those things that God has given them power to do and God is in ultimate control of all of their abilities and powers so that his will is accomplished in all things. We who are of God rejoice in this that God restrains the evil from destroying the world until his purpose is complete.

4. All creation is under God’s control. It is true that you need to be cleansed from your sins. Only Jesus Christ can cleanse you from your sins. Eternal life is only the birthright of the ones who enter into life into the body of Christ through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

5. Those who are perfected in Christ would be much as you have described here. The commandment is to go into all the world and preach the gospel unto every creature. This could be looked at as creating blessings in those who receive God’s word and become saved.

6. Very good as written (details of how it can happen are left out though)

7. Pretty good except that we can’t find our own way. God has made his own way for us to come to him and he reveals it to us.

Over time I have gone from being angry with God for not being my servant and giving me what I desired when I did not know much about him, to a deep and abiding love for him as he has revealed to me himself and his love for me. This love is manifested in my desire to please him by doing what he desires for me to do to please him. Because I have gone through all of this myself I can recognize in others their condition and position in relation to God by their words and deeds. In your story it is clear that the second man is the one that you consider to know the truth so although you mention God as the creator in the first man’s words it is not clear if you actually believe that he is or just present that as someone else’s belief, etc. so I will restrict my comments primarily to what is revealed to me about you and your beliefs in the second man’s words.

1. You recognize that God is loving and that he desires that his children be happy or that he desires good for them. This is true and good that you understand this.

2. You do not seem to understand that God has any other purpose that he desires to fulfill and for which he made the creation other than the purpose that his children be happy.

3. The relationship you show between God and man seems to be limited to people loving each other so they can all be happy in order to please God and learning how to take power from God and use it to create things either in the world in reality or possibly just in the minds of others. This is not clear because you talk about man creating pits of daemonic damnation, etc., which as we look around the world we do not see in reality, but I could understand that you may just be talking about the effects that talking about such things could have on the minds of others to cause them to fear such things and cause them to suffer because of that fear, which you seem to be greatly concerned about. You are right that man should not make up false things that do not really exist to cause others to suffer from fear of them. Of course, if God made such a pit (hell) for the storage of those who willingly serve Satan until the judgment, knowing about it would be a good thing for those who would use that knowledge to find out how they can escape it and then follow through and go in the way that will avoid their falling into it. In truth it is always good to know as much as you can about the bad things that exist in the world, so that you can avoid them. Being reminded about the existence of such things only seems bad to those who have already made the decision to go down the path that leads to that pit and know that falling into it will be their end result. Your comment number six in the first man’s statement, which was turned around from the way that it is given in the scriptures as I noted above, was actually given in its true form by Jesus Christ whom you admit is perfected. He tells us about the hell fire and that it should be avoided. Did Jesus Christ the one you admit is perfected just make that up to cause people to suffer needlessly or was he warning us of something that really exists that is so terrible that we should avoid it at all costs?

4. You do recognize that man has a problem with sin that can cause man to do evil things and that he needs to be cleansed from that sin to be perfected. This is a good understanding, but no explanation of how that can be accomplished is given

5. You do recognize that God wants us to accept him into our heart and that the result is that he blesses our lives and uses us as instruments to bless the lives of others. This is very good, but again no explanation is given as to how to do so. Moreover this is closer to the true way that God works in man than the channeling concept given above it.

6. You do accept that Jesus Christ is perfected and was resurrected and ascended up to God the Father. This is also a good understanding although he actually ascended into a place (the highest place in the creation) that is above the highest (third) heaven that is reserved for him and the Father only. The reason that God has placed him as the mediator between him and us is that he is really much more than just a man. He is specially prepared of God to be able to communicate both with him and with man. God the Father created the whole creation by him and within him we move and have our being. He is more than the whole creation in truth for it is within him. He suffered to become a man for us, but he is really more than all of us together. Another good thing is that you do understand that we can be perfected also, but no mention of how is given.

The biggest thing that I find lacking is any understanding of What God desires in a relationship with man. It is as though he desires for us to have loving relations between ourselves, but that he has no desire to have a real loving relationship with us. Even your mention that God wants us to accept him into our heart is given only in the context that it is so he can bless our and others lives. You seem to have no concept that God desires any real loving relationship between him and us. That he may want us to come to him or treat him directly in some way or do things for him that are pleasing to him. You show no real love relationship with him. There is no evidence of an actual care for God or an understanding that he even desires such a relationship or what it is like. The whole thing demonstrates a selfish viewpoint of trying to understand God only to find out how to use him so we can have him provide good lives for us with no concern for what he may desire from us for his benefit. If one mentions that God says that he desires for us to come to him in a certain way (through his perfected son Jesus Christ) that pleases him, the response is as though it would be too much for him to expect us to do anything for him unless it is only directly for our benefit. Even if God did not have any plans that required us to come to him by Jesus Christ in order for those plans to work correctly, it would seem to me that we would and should be willing to accept his desire just to please him for all that he has done in creating us and for being so concerned with our happiness. The rebellion demonstrated against any mention that he desires such a thing of us shows a lack of love toward God and his desires on the part of the man number two in your example. The man number one in your example at least does present that God desires us to take some actions for him even though they are presented more as a threat than as his will for us to please him. There is at least the concept presented that maybe we should look for what will please God and do those things (ideally out of our love for him instead of because of a threat to us, that should never be needed), even things that aren’t just commanding us to treat each other well or giving us special powers. It is not just that we have love and compassion for one another that is important. It is also that we have love for and the willingness to please God, not only in those things that seem to be for our benefit, but also in those things God may desire just because it pleases him or in things that may benefit us, but we may not understand how. God desires for us to have a much deeper relationship with him than most consider. It is in the depths of that relationship that you will gain the understanding of how all that he has made works so that you will be able to not misuse his creation and learn how to truly love him and one another, not with the love of the world that is selfish, but in the true depth of the fullness of love that surpasses knowledge. You will then come to see that his purpose goes beyond people in this world learning how to love each other into a joining of him and we who are his together in one that leaves this world and all of the things concerning it behind for the generation of a new and better world in which we are all one in him in the fullness of love through eternity.

On your later post of June 21, 2009:

For some, you are right that looking at the things concerning this world is not really that important. Those who come to God in his Word are told directly by him that this world is temporary and will later be replaced by a better eternal world. For those who for one reason or another don’t look into God’s Word, God has left a witness of these things in the creation so that it should be evident to those who observe it. It is not that the world would die a natural death a longtime from now that is important. It is the fact that you gain the understanding that God does not intend this world to be all that we ever have, but has planned a better place for us to live out eternity in that is important. It can get our sights off of the world or some part of it like this planet as the important focus of our lives and cause us to direct ourselves toward God to seek out and understand his purpose for making things this way. When we see that what God will save from this world is only his people and that his intent is for us to be a part of him, our focus can change to the really important works of perfecting our relationship with God and then working with him in the creation of his people and bringing them to maturity in him. You need to look at things from a different perspective. It is in using the tools that God has given to us to figure out the universe that entropy was discovered to be a law or rule that God built into the universe as a part of how it works. It is clearly built to grow old and deteriorate and in the long run wear completely out. The way that it will wear out will take all of the matter and energy with it so that nothing that we build in it or store in it in any way will survive. It is a wakeup call from God to all that think that they are going to make this the perfect world to let them know that it is not God’s intent to do that. If they want to survive they need to come to him and become a part of his work that will be saved. You are right that not everything that has achieved maturity will die. Those who achieve maturity as God’s people will be saved and the new world in which we live will be eternal also. That is the point. It is the maturity of God’s work that will survive, not man’s work outside of him. The tools tell us that this universe is not cyclical. You are right that the world economy will exist in some form until the end of this world. The fate of individual nations is not as sure because some have passed away over time. You are right that they are sometimes better, but the replacements are not always better. The government in Germany changed in the 1930’s, but Hitler’s new government was not an improvement and also did not prove to be more resistant to the problems of the past. Often new governments don’t learn from the past and suffer the same fate as those before them. The United States is a good example of the problem. It was formed by people who were predominately Christians or at least many of their beliefs were formed by the Christian communities that they were brought up in. The result was a government that was formed by those that understood the nature of man and, therefore, they divided power so that no one man could completely control the country and lead it astray. Its laws and public codes of conduct were based predominately on Christian principles so God blessed the nation and made it the greatest and richest nation on earth. After that, however, the people began to leave God and now the nation has declined greatly and so far is still continuing in that direction. People never seem to learn.

Yes, losing someone that you love can be about the closest thing that you can come to death without really dying. Thanks be to God for restoring her to you. These kinds of things give us a little hint at how it must have been for God to allow his son Jesus Christ to be tortured and die so our sins could be forgiven and we could be saved and the suffering of Jesus in going through that death to save us. In your recovery you have experienced a little image of what the resurrection will be like at the end of the world, although the real thing will be much better. God shows us many things in these images that he gives us to go through in our lives, if we recognize them. They, like all learning experiences, are not always pleasant to experience, but you could not have experienced the good image of the resurrection and understood its true significance if you had not first experienced the image of death. It is the fullness of seeing both extremes that let us see and understand how great the gift of God to us is in freeing us from the death that we deserve because of our sins, through Jesus Christ and offering us resurrection and eternal life in him.

I have found that when one sees that this world has an end, one can escape many false beliefs that center efforts on trying to perfect this world (often by doing things that are contrary to God’s will and only make things worse) and allow him to redirect his efforts toward the perfection of his relationship with God and others so that he can become a mature member of the body of Christ and then help others to reach the same condition also. In the process he also learns from God more about how his creation works, so he can do the works concerning this planet that actually result in making it a better place for us to live in while we are still here and so that it is preserved in that condition for those who come after us until God’s work in this world is complete.

view post as summary

William Orem,

I want to express appreciation for your patience in allowing some “not-so-physics” discussion. The I.M., F.M. and E.D. are real things that need to be sorted out.

Steve,

There is healing for you when you are ready to receive it.

Paul,

A lot of what you say is true and has relevance. About a year and half ago, I began a perilous journey. At...

view entire post

William Orem,

I want to express appreciation for your patience in allowing some “not-so-physics” discussion. The I.M., F.M. and E.D. are real things that need to be sorted out.

Steve,

There is healing for you when you are ready to receive it.

Paul,

A lot of what you say is true and has relevance. About a year and half ago, I began a perilous journey. At that time, I was depressed because I feared that there was no afterlife, no soul; at the time, I couldn’t see anything in the physics to support such ideas. I believed in Theosophy and Higher Spiritualism, as I still do today. Theosophy is soft and gentle; I think I needed a slightly harder nudge from the God. I can’t get into details, but I have used occult techniques involving healing and transmutation; but like I said, it was too gentle to be decisively noticeable. But I knew that Christianity and the Christian God had tremendous power; possibly not so gentle. I had to take the risk; I also have Attention Deficit Disorder, so doing bizarre, out of the box stuff is part of my nature. I noticed that my Holy Bible was crackling with electricity. When I opened it up, the words on the page began to float on the page. I decided to risk eternal damnation by placing the Holy Bible within an arrangement of healing artifacts (I can’t give more details about that, sorry). I wanted to see if the two approaches to God and good were compatible. What I witnessed blew my mind. I watched thick, powerful healing energies begin to flow across my arrangement. I had a vision that seemed more like blood magic, but it left me feeling healed in a very deep way. But I was scared that I saw blood in the vision. I had mixed New Age techniques (crystals/spiritual light) with the blood of Christ. I was viscerally healed! My mind was blown by the experience. The two were compatible and could produce healing. But I was frightened by the symbolism of the blood magic; I didn’t know what the vision meant and I was not about to start spilling anybody’s blood to pursue it. They were compatible, but did I unlock the door to evil magic? It seemed more likely that I didn’t understand what I was seeing. I backed away from it for over a year; but it left an impression upon me that it was something I wanted and needed to discover within a safe and honorable context.

I agree with you that approaching God directly is like handling Infinite Power/Infinite Light that will seek out one’s moral flaws very quickly; it will leave a scorch mark if one’s intentions are evil. It is very important to approach God through an advocate such as Jesus Christ. I would urge you to keep preaching the gospel to others. I am drawn to the idea that New Age/crystals/Buddhism/spirituality can be unified with God and Jesus Christ. The philosophies are not compatible, but they both express love and compassion (in different ways).

I have been a student of the Ascended Masters for more than twenty years; I love them. I also love God. I cling to both and cannot give up either. I am trying to unify the two by allowing the differences between the two philosophies to fall under the category of “limitation in human understanding”. This can be explained by simple Venn diagrams. I am not attempting to unify God and Satan; Satan is evil and will lead to ruin. I am trying to unify two halves that are both loving, honorable and good. The differences have to do with trusting God versus taking personal responsibility for one’s own actions. To what extent do we allow God to work through us? I respect that you worship God. If God asked you to sacrifice a baby, would you do it? Would you kill (murder) for God? If you worship God, can you still deny a request that is evil? I had this issue stressed to me by God and the Ascended Masters. If I was asked to do something that is evil or dangerous (for example, driving on the highway with my eyes covered), I am not to follow that command.

Paul, I cannot abandon the Ascended Masters, the best example I have of what is good, noble and honorable. I also cannot abandon God because there is something powerful that draws my attention. It makes more sense that the ideologies and philosophies are incomplete. There is always room for new wisdom.

view post as summary

John,

If you believe God in the scriptures, the motion that started the world and generated the forms within it was introduced by God when the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. This would have been the sub-energy. Then he said let there be light and the extra motion that changes sub-energy to light was introduced into some of the sub-energy making it light. Later he made...

view entire post

John,

If you believe God in the scriptures, the motion that started the world and generated the forms within it was introduced by God when the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. This would have been the sub-energy. Then he said let there be light and the extra motion that changes sub-energy to light was introduced into some of the sub-energy making it light. Later he made the matter by adding another motion to some of the energy photons. If you believe the big bang theory it was somehow introduced in some unknown way that was the cause of the big bang. That is the problem with that theory; all of the theories break down and are of no help when you get back to the beginning of the big bang so no one can use them to determine what would have been there before it or what actually would have caused it to start. When entropy is complete all areas of space will have the same energy density and you would be right, but at this time an area that contains a star has a much greater energy or motion content than empty areas around it. The amount of energy or motion that hits the star from other distant stars, etc. is much less than the amount that leaves it and goes into space around it. That is a very good point and is evidence that the world is not infinite and ageless. Even if they contained black holes that changed the energy and matter that had previously fallen into the black hole into electrons, this would not restore the light elements because you would also need to have large-scale proton production because all atoms contain both. Moreover most of the material that entered into the black hole in the beginning would have been matter not energy, so only a small amount of energy would actually have been changed into the electron matter. Since protons are more than 1800 times the mass of electrons, most of that matter that fell into the black hole would have been protons, which would then be converted to electrons. This would only increase entropy because protons contain more motion than electrons. It would require an uphill reaction against entropy of more than 1800 electrons to generate one proton. One scenario is that after all of the lighter elements were used up, the remaining matter might collapse due to gravity into black holes because it would no longer be offset by fusion reactions. If this occurred and if over time all that matter in the black holes was later ejected as electrons this would pretty much destroy all protons from the universe leaving only electrons, photons and sub-energy for the most part. It does not take much to change electrons into photons.

We never can predict the position of motions exactly, but we don’t really need to for most practical purposes. All we need is that it be accurate enough to get the precision needed for what we are doing. To predict the result of a type of reaction between two particles of matter as an example, you would need to be able to have precision down to a certain portion of its wavelength. At this time that sounds impossible, but with advanced fifth vector structuring techniques it can be done. It is the old size and speed scale problem. It is generally easy to get an accurate enough measurement of position and motion amplitude as long as you have something much smaller in size and faster than the thing that you are measuring to use in the measuring process. The basic problem today is that man has not found anything smaller and faster than the particles that he is measuring to use in the measuring process. To add complexity to the problem particles are not solid little point objects, but combinations of motions that are continually changing position and causing the mass to change etc. There are ways around this, but man will not be able to do it very easy for quite some time. Some fourth vector techniques can help some. All of the mass and energy of particles is a function of its various motions. Most of a matter particle’s rest mass is due to the angular motion components introduced due to its fifth vector motion. Most of an energy photon’s dynamic mass effect is due to the angular motion components introduced by its fourth vector motion. Sub-energy particles only have a small amount of straight-line mass effect due to its sub-light velocity in some direction in space. All particles exhibit some mass effects due to straight-line motion, but it only becomes significant in combination with fourth or especially with fifth vector motion components. Because sub-energy does not contain these other components its mass effect is extremely small and undetectable at present by man, at least as single particles. It is not necessary to consider time to be a spatial dimension to get accurate measurements in space. All that is needed is to define specific positions in space and determine certain motion amplitudes of the particles along with structural phasing for the interaction.

Things could get pretty bad for sure.

What you are not seeing is that the main difference between earthly kingdoms and God’s kingdom is the source of resources. For earthly kingdoms the source is the people in the kingdom. These resources are very limited. In God’s kingdom God is the source of the resources, so they are not limited. From what the scriptures say the new world will not be subject to entropy. Things that we make will last and not decay as they do here. Motion seems to be conserved. Entropy is caused by the fact that in this world motions tend to disperse evenly into space. All that would be necessary would be for motions to not disperse that way or for all motions to be of equal value, so there would be no uphill reactions, etc. God may have a much better way though. All people use resources whether they are of God or not. I used to be worried about all of the wasted resources due to wars, etc. until I realized that the universe contains plenty enough resources to last as long as this world needs to last. It is mainly a question of when the next door will be opened up to man to the next larger area of resources. The latest news is that they plan to return to the moon by 2020 or so. The laws of nature are really laws of God that he built into the universe when he created it. They work very well or we wouldn’t be here.

To All,

I May not be able to respond on this BLOG much any more because after these BLOGs get to about 145 entries all I get when I try to access them from my computer is a black screen, so I have to go to someone else's computer to see and respond to the BOLGs after that. This means that I can't check it very often. I am making a special effort for you John to answer your post to me, but it will likely be a longer time before I get access again. Sorry, but I have tried to update to the latest Windows XP and Internet Explorer and it didn't fix the problem.

view post as summary

Paul,

Thank you for taking the time and effort to continue this conversation, even if we don't agree.

For one thing, you really have to consider the essential consequences of understanding time as a consequence of motion and energy, not the dimensional basis for it. The concepts of beginnings and endings are an emergent property of time and if time is an emergent property of...

view entire post

Paul,

Thank you for taking the time and effort to continue this conversation, even if we don't agree.

For one thing, you really have to consider the essential consequences of understanding time as a consequence of motion and energy, not the dimensional basis for it. The concepts of beginnings and endings are an emergent property of time and if time is an emergent property of motion, there is no beginning or end for motion and energy. It just changes form and location.

Stars don't accumulate photons, it's a process of collapsing gas and plasma. If the universe is infinite, it can't expand and disperse any more. It's simply a matter of whether all the energy can be stable in equilibrium. It wouldn't take much perturbation off the mean for the universe to exist as it is.

In an earlier post, you pointed out that if light traveled as a wave front, it would quickly get too weak to condense out as a photon. Since light is continuous, it would not be just an ever thinner wave, but an ever more dispersed field, so it would simply take longer to collect the energy to form an individual quanta of light, thus they would be redshifted, ie. broader wave patterns.

I realize you have very profound reasons for believing what you do, but so do I have for believing what I do. I'd always been a natural theist, in the sense of seeing the connections and motivations flowing through this great big process of life, with all its fractal layering and seeing myself as just one small cell in a larger organism, but about 16 years ago, I had this insight that anything truly described as an absolute God would have to be so far beyond any possible comprehension as to be practically irrelevant to how life functions. It might be the basis and the entirety, but all the detail in between would only be relative to all the other detail. As well as the fact that there could very well be a spiritual realm every bit as complex as biological life, it would still be relativistic to have definition. This thought literally made me dizzy. It took three days for me to really accept it and on that day, I got a telephone call that my father had died. After that, it seemed as if all the protective layers had been peeled away and the layer left open to the universe was me. To the extent reality is relative, I am my own point of focus and while the universe seems to be at my fingertips, I was equally controlled by everything else, so the sense of karma has only grown stronger. When you put yourself on the scale against God, it becomes a matter of how you define God, because it is otherwise beyond definition, but when you put yourself on the scale against everything else that is, it exists and if you manipulate it, it pushes back, so there is no hiding in churches, or holy texts. It is everything and anything, from a bird flying by, to people on the other side of the earth. There are no easy definitions between good and bad, predator and prey, Christian and heathen, American and foreign, people and other life. Even between plant and animals. It's all that elemental desire in all its complexity and simplicity. Expanding out and pushing forward. Falling back and regrouping. One big sea of being and doing.

view post as summary

Chris,

Hmmm. I don't know how much help I can be, if you are trying to get this accepted by the physics community. If you just want some insights though..

When I first trying understanding physics thirty years ago.. God, has it really been that long?...I was just trying to understand how the world worked and mostly found myself skimming through various books on the subject, trying...

view entire post

Chris,

Hmmm. I don't know how much help I can be, if you are trying to get this accepted by the physics community. If you just want some insights though..

When I first trying understanding physics thirty years ago.. God, has it really been that long?...I was just trying to understand how the world worked and mostly found myself skimming through various books on the subject, trying to make sense of something. I agree spacetime geometry doesn't make sense as anything more than a map. How one book, I long forgot which, described it, is that since nothing exceeds the speed of light, than internal atomic activity, ie. the electron spinning around the nucleus, has to slow as the external speed increases, so that the part of the spin going the direction of travel doesn't exceed C. Thus when velocity has reached the speed of light, all internal motion has stopped. That's why a photon is timeless. It was only afterwards, as I began to understand the personalities and politics of physics that I really began to understand that they really think it is the geometry, not the mechanics.



While I try to stick fairly close to my point about time being the events going future to past as opposed to it being a dimension along which we experience events for the reason that it is so simple and obvious, at least to me, I do have various slightly more complex reasons to think that space really is a form of absolute geometry. Not an aether, as that implies some physical property, but as an equilibrium state and void. The absolute AND the infinite. I bring it up because that would explain why the speed of light is stable. This raises other issues, such as action at a distance, but another point first.

That part about two clocks on a rocket ship measuring time at different rates seems nonsense. Why would the light signals matter? What if the ship consisted of two cylinders, with a clock at the front, middle and rear. Would the one in the middle run slower than the one in the front, but faster than the one in the rear, yet at the same rate as the one at the rear would run to it? Also acceleration means they will eventually reach C and so both clocks must be slowing anyway. Whatever their position relative to one another, the same G force is applied to each and so their clocks must run at the same speed. The spaceship isn't stretching. On the earth, a higher position means a lower G force.

How is it that gravity attracts? I think is is some form of atomic implosion, or collapse and that radiation really is the opposite expansion/explosion, so that light is the anti-gravity. If we want to experience gravity waves running through space, we simply have to open our eyes and it floods in. Think about it; A star burns, a super-nova explodes, galaxies shoot lasers out their poles, the ripples on the pond of the universe are light.

To clarify a point I made earlier to Paul, if light expands as a continuous expanding field of energy, not as photons, or distinct waves, but when it connects to mass energy, such as a telescope, or some other measuring device, it condenses out as a quanta of light, i.e, a photon. Much like gravity and surface tension make drops of water the same basic size. Now as that field of energy expands outward, it dissipates. So just as dripping water slows the rate of drips, but doesn’t shrink the size of drops, as you turn the faucet tighter, so to would it take longer to form a quanta of light as the field of energy becomes weaker. This would give the appearance of redshifting of waves.

Also it would explain action at a distance, since entangled photons are really the same larger photon, just as two drops of water become one, so that then sending them in different directions, you are expanding the single wave front, much like you might hear the same sound from a radio station at the same time, by two radios on opposite sides of it, but at the same distance. For this reason, I don't think light needs an aether, but is its own expanding medium.

Suffice to say, this isn't going to help you win any supporters in physics, but you did ask.

view post as summary

Jason,

What were you healed of? Did the healing last? God’s power is truly greater than you could ever imagine. You saw the difference between the power of the others (not decisively noticeable) and God (powerful healing energies). You really don’t need the others. When you come to God in the way that you did, you are putting the others up to God as though they are equal to him. ...

view entire post

Jason,

What were you healed of? Did the healing last? God’s power is truly greater than you could ever imagine. You saw the difference between the power of the others (not decisively noticeable) and God (powerful healing energies). You really don’t need the others. When you come to God in the way that you did, you are putting the others up to God as though they are equal to him. This is an offense to God and although he might have mercy on you because of your ignorance and that your intention was not for evil, it is not recommended, especially now that you know better. I suggest that next time you come to God our Father without the others and see what happens by asking him for the healing in the name of his beloved only begotten son Jesus Christ.

Only God can unify anyone with him and he has chosen to unify us to him only in his son Jesus Christ whom he has prepared for that purpose. You put your finger on the real problem when you said that their philosophies (beliefs) are different from God’s and not compatible. When they say something that is contrary to God’s word, they could only be saying that God (the creator of the universe) does not know the true answer or that he is trying to deceive you with a lie. Both would be untrue so they would be lying to you. They could just be ignorant themselves so that they are telling you a falsehood, but just don’t understand the truth, so they don’t know that they are telling you a lie, but in that case they are not going to be of much help to you if you are looking for the truth. In any case you are much better off to come to God for the truth by the one that he has prepared for that purpose than to try to go through others when he has specifically excluded that as a valid option. One of the reasons that God has chosen just one to come to him by is to avoid the boasting, fighting, and backbiting that would occur if he allowed all to come to him directly. There would be the fights of who was the most loved by God, who deserved to be the closest to him or have the highest position because of their own works, etc. Instead God has provided that the one that we all owe our lives to (because he is the only one that could do the best work possible of saving our lives by offering his perfect life in our place) be the only one through whom we must approach to him. This makes the rest of us all equal to each other before him and avoids all those problems.

I was an agnostic for over twenty years so, I know how one can get used to a way of life and not want to give it up even though it is wrong. You probably have it harder than I did, however, because I had previously decided that all the others were not worthy to worship as God and that they could not help me. Ultimately you will have to make a choice because God will not allow you to stay on the fence forever. The problem is that it is not beyond man’s ability to observe and understand the truth. You can’t escape making the decision that way. You do understand one of the main differences between God and the others. The others say that you can either come to God or become like God by doing good works to work your way to heaven, so to speak. Remember that God disallowed that partly to avoid the fights of who did the best works and therefore deserves the best place by God or the most in blessings from him, etc. Personal responsibility for ones own actions is still present because you are responsible to accept him in the way that he allows for you that is acceptable to him or not and you are ultimately held responsible for the choice that you make, etc. God’s works are the works that are of him and are expressions of who he is and what he is. They result from who he is in his inner being. When he tells us to love him and each other it is because that love is within him for us and is the way he is in his existence. The works that he does through us reveal his love. That is why the works that he did through Jesus were all to help others and not to destroy them. He fed the people, healed them, and raised them from the dead. He preached the gospel to them in truth so that they could be saved. These are the kinds of works that are God’s works. There are also works of the devil (Satan) that come from the way that he is in his being. He lies to people to deceive them, and tempts them to get them to do evil to each other and attempts to get people to go away from God so they will be destroyed. Those who are of Satan (controlled by him) exhibit those kinds of works. Killing babies is an example of a work of Satan. God would not ask his people to sacrifice a baby because it would be contrary to the way that he is. In this world the promotion of the killing of babies has been mainly done either by those who worshiped false gods such as Baal or by those who aren’t of God such as those in the pro-abortion movement. You should recognize that most who oppose abortion (the killing of babies) are Christians. You do have a good understanding, but you should understand that if you are asked to do evil, it is not God that is asking you, but someone on the other side. That is why you need to read the scriptures because in them God gives you understanding as to what is good and what is evil so that you can recognize both of them and then understand whether each person that you come into contact with is working good or evil in the world. There are many in the world that are confused and don’t really understand what is good and what is evil, so that they do evil not even knowing that it is evil, but often think that they are doing good. These can often be helped just by showing them the truth in God’s word. There are also those that know that what they are doing is evil, but they have been deceived by Satan into believing that in the end the result will be to bring about some greater good, which in reality will not happen because the evil just begets more evil in the world. These not only must come to God to get the understanding that what they are doing will not work, they must also come to understand that they are following the wrong one and must change over to following God. There are also those who know that they are doing evil and are willingly following Satan to try to destroy the world and all that dwell in it. They can usually only be helped to escape their condition if they come to understand that Satan also desires their destruction in the end. That fear can sometimes cause them to consider what they are doing and repent and come to God and be saved. In a few the burden of considering all of the evil that they have done can bring them to the point that they cannot continue in it. At that point they will usually go in one of two ways. They will either give Satan his final victory over them by killing themselves or they will change and come over to God’s side and be saved. Because they understand Satan and his ways they can often be very effective in overcoming him in doing God’s works in the world.

When you come to God you will see that he is truly the best example of all that is good, noble and honorable because he is the source of and the true expression of all that is good, noble and honorable in all his ways and works. You are right that the ideologies and philosophies of all the others are incomplete and lacking and in error even if they had a good intent when they made them. All of the others are just small parts of the creation just like us and don’t have all of the knowledge, wisdom, and understanding that God has because of his position of having created the world and having a global perspective of it. You are right that he can very powerfully get your attention and call you to him when it is your time.

On your post to John and me on June 23, 2009:

Both my youngest son and I had problems with focusing on what we were doing and being easily distracted when we were young, which I believe would probably have been diagnosed as ADD except that when I was young ADD was not known and it never became a problem for my son because I home schooled him from kindergarten through high school. I found that in me the problem was that my metabolism was faster than most people’s. This meant that I could pickup and understand concepts faster than most. I found that while my teacher was still explaining things to the students I had already attained understanding of the subject and became bored. I would go off in my mind thinking about something else and then would miss things that the teacher covered later. The answer to me was twofold. First I read the textbooks and if it was a subject that I was interested in, I would read other books on the subject. Because I could read at my own rate I could pick up much more without getting sidetracked due to boredom. The second part was to concentrate on paying attention to the instructor and the subject. This was the hardest part to learn, but in some ways the most rewarding because I could then get information from others more effectively and completely. It takes a lot of work, but it can be learned. When I home schooled my son, I taught him these things also. In addition I came to the conclusion that if he worked faster internally than most people this could be an advantage in doing those things where speed would be an advantage. I had him take typing and concentrate on speed. He got up to about 100 words per minute. His error rate was a little high, so I had him concentrate on that and he eventually got to where he could type at 85 to 100 words per minute with an error rate of only one or two errors per page of single spaced 12 pitch text. If your problem is the same, you may be able to do some things better than most people and probably can learn to concentrate with practice to be able to at least do reasonably well at staying focused on what you are doing so that you can pick up what you need to from others and stay on the subject in your own thoughts. I found that another benefit is the ability to think more deeply about things than most others. We all have advantages and disadvantages in comparison with others. The key is to find and accentuate your advantages (the things that are easy for you) and then to apply much effort on your disadvantages (the things that you find hard to do). In the end you can come out way ahead on the easy things and at the same time be able to adequately do the other things also. Using this technique my son was able to score in the 98th percentile on the ACT college entrance exams, enter into the honors program at college and this year he graduated Suma Cum Laud from college, so I know it works. This was all done without the use of any drugs. Many children today are given very detrimental drug habits by being given drugs that actually make their learning situation worse rather than better because they never learn to overcome their problem. I also have found that those who study the scriptures also have an advantage in all other areas of study. I believe that is because God’s word contains much information that cannot be found anywhere else and also because God promises knowledge, wisdom, and understanding as blessings to his people.

If you are serious in your relationship with your girl friend, so that you desire to marry her, you should treat her the same way that God tells you to treat your wife and marry her if and when she is willing. To husbands God says, Love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church (his body), and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: for we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them. Another thing to remember is that you cannot make her marry you and she cannot make you marry her. It is God that joins a man and a woman together as husband and wife and it is for life. God says concerning marriage, What God has joined together, let not man put asunder. If you really want her to be your wife you should first go to God through Jesus Christ and cry unto him to join the two of you together in marriage, then treat her in love as God commands you to, being willing to suffer for her if you need to. This means that you will have to help her in her vulnerabilities and weaknesses and over time try to give her what she needs so she can overcome them. The really deep relationship that you desire can only fully come when both of you are grown up in Christ. In the end though it is up to God to decide whether to join the two of you into one flesh in marriage because he knows whether the two of you are right for each other. You are right to place God first in your life.

Yes. Superstring theory is a progression from string theory and attempts to describe all particles and forces as vibrating strings. Just like string theory before it, there has been a proliferation of different superstring theories with no way to isolate the one that represents reality or to even determine if any of them do actually represent reality. Some estimate that there may be at least 10X10^500 possible different theories. It was determined that by adding another dimension to string theory one could come closer to unifying gravity with the other forces and better describe the fermions, etc. On a conceptual basis the back and forth vibrations of strings can generate a somewhat realistic approximation of the effects of the fourth vector motion in and out of our three dimensional structure, so it can come somewhat close to describing the particles that contain fourth vector velocities, but do not contain fifth vector velocities. As an example, it can do pretty well at describing the energy photon, but not the proton. The fourth vector motion of a particle generates an angular component that is at a ninety-degree angle to the direction of travel, which fits well with the general concept of oscillations of a string at a ninety-degree angle to its length. The fifth vector velocity creates an angular component in the three-dimensional structure that exists as a repetitive continually changing three-dimensional pattern. This is mostly why you get the same inertial effect in an interaction between matter particles regardless of the directions that they are traveling in with respect to each other before the interaction. The continually changing angular components pretty much always are at differing angles at some point during the interaction and thus demonstrate the observed inertial resistance to motion change. Such theories usually generate more than a hundred constants compared to about twenty for the standard model and to a great degree they do not coordinate with anything in reality. I have not generally seen any information given as to what the strings are supposed to be constructed of or such things as the shape (circular, square, or triangular, etc.) or size (diameter, etc.) of the cross sections of the strings that would seem to be important to determine their various oscillation properties etc., but those may be built into the individual theories as some of the constants as I have not delved that deeply into the details of the various theories. One conceptual error that seems to be a part of most of the theories is the concept that a one-dimensional string can have curvature. This may be a possible math construction, but in the real world in real space, curvature requires two or more dimensions because it is a structural result of the interaction between two or more dimensions. Put simply curvature requires something to curve into. Since curvature is generated as the result of a continual change in spatial position in at least two dimensions it cannot exist in reality in just one. Moreover it is the result of motions with varying motion amplitudes in each of the participating dimensions that are out of phase between the participating dimensions. Of course, you can have small dimensions that curve in the other existing dimensions. It is generally much easier to look at things the way that they really are rather than to make up some abstract math model that comes out with similar results, but in which you don’t understand what is actually going on.

On your post on June 25, 2009:

It is really not sick or perverted. You are still playing in God’s workshop, but this time you are doing it in the right way, if you follow his example. What you are doing when you humble yourself to her is an image of Jesus humbling himself when he came down and became a man so he could save us and join us to him as his body (his wife). Of course it is just an image because you are really not greater than her like Jesus is so much greater than man, but as we follow him we learn much of how to truly love one another. This is the part of the workshop that is the most important part to become proficient in because it has to do with working with God to fulfill his purpose and intent for making this creation, which is to make his body members. He is slowly training you even though you do not fully recognize it yet. When you do recognize it and learn more fully from his word how to do it right, you can graduate from being a child just playing in the workshop and often interpreting things the wrong way and causing problems, to being his helper and ultimately his son as a member of his body. Then he can use you to do the work that takes the real power, the power to turn men into his body members. This is the greatest transmutation of all. Men’s concepts of transmutation are just poor images of God’s works in an attempt to fulfill their selfish desires for gold, or other earthly things, etc. Only God can change a man into a member of his body and the work is only begun in this life. It takes another thousand years in this world when Jesus returns here to rule for that period and then also takes the change to the new body in the world to come, but he has given us to do some of the work here as part of our training. The desires of men to have powers so that others will look up to them as something important is all useless vanity. The real important skills are those like learning how to truly love God and one another that make you useful as an help meet to (worthy to help) God in his work in this world and later in the new world also. He can use his powers through you though if and when it is useful for him to do so to fulfill his purpose. Doing the real useful work in the workshop requires some real hard work and sometimes suffering on your part, but then Jesus won’t ask you to do for him any more than he has already done for you and probably much less. You do get a little of the idea of how much he gave up to come down from being in control of the complete creation, which he made, to be just a man in the earth and not only that, he did not come as a king or to use great powers to force us to do his will, but as a servant, he took care of the needs of others in his works and preached the gospel of our salvation unto man. He did not come unto us as a tyrant to force his will on us, but he came in love, giving us the freedom to willingly choose to accept his offer of salvation or to refuse it, while all the time trying to persuade us in his love for us to make the right decision for eternal life in him. This is what you must do for your girl friend in a figure or form, though it will not be near the expression of the fullness of the depth of love that Jesus has given to us.

view post as summary

John,

You are welcome. I thought you could maybe use the motion generation of mass information. We cannot learn much from those who completely agree with us although it can give us that warm and fuzzy feeling of acceptance. Generally, even if in the end I find that I was completely right and the other person was completely wrong, I usually find new ways to look at the information that I...

view entire post

John,

You are welcome. I thought you could maybe use the motion generation of mass information. We cannot learn much from those who completely agree with us although it can give us that warm and fuzzy feeling of acceptance. Generally, even if in the end I find that I was completely right and the other person was completely wrong, I usually find new ways to look at the information that I had not considered before, so I end up with a more in depth understanding than I had before. In reality we all pick up new understandings from others over time.

Time is a result of motion through a distance. It is the duration thus created and when two or more motions exist the concept of order also comes into being. There could have been a beginning of motion from a motionless condition. Before the introduction of motion there would be no time, since time is generated by motion through a distance. An energy photon is composed of motions. It also would not exist before the introduction of motion into the dimensional system. The introduction of motion into the dimensional system would, therefore, constitute the beginning of both motion and time. Energy photons could then be generated when some of those motions somehow gained enough motion to exceed the speed of light so that the excess motion would be transferred to the fourth dimension to generate the energy photon’s frequency, wavelength, and variable dynamic mass effects. You can see that if the universe started out without any motion in it, there would have been a beginning to both motion and energy and even time. Motion seems to be conserved so that unless it is removed from the universe, (which God will do at the end of the world in order to reclaim his motion that he put into it) it will always be there. Energy photons are complex motion structures and it is possible that they could cease to exist. Energy photons can have interactions with sub-energy particles such that their fourth vector motion is slightly decreased. Over a long time the photon’s fourth vector motion could be depleted turning it into a sub-energy particle. The time would be very long, but eventually all energy photons would be converted and cease to exist as energy photons, so energy could have an end. The beginning of motion introduction into the system would generate the concept of beginnings because it would be the first beginning of motion. It would also be the beginning of the first period of time or the beginning of the first duration, so you could say that the concept of beginnings would emerge from the beginning of the first period of time. If we assume that many motions were introduced simultaneously, all those motions would continue in their initial directions until the first interaction between two or more of them. The first natural ending would be the end of a motion’s initial path direction or motion amplitude level as a result of the first interaction. Since that motion would have moved through some distance and, therefore, generated some duration from the introduction of that motion into the system, it could be said that the first ending would be generated from the end of that first period of time, so that the concept of endings could be said to emerge from time also.

Just as some small amount of the light (photons) from distant stars strikes the earth, so also does a small amount of light from distant stars (photons) strike the sun and also all other stars from other distant stars. These photons add a very small amount of energy to the sun and other stars. My point, however, is that the stars emit a much greater level of energy (photons) than they receive from such sources, so that the end result is that large amounts of energy is dissipated from these concentrated sources of photons into space where they tend to spread out evenly over time so that the end result over a long enough time is that all the concentrations of motion are dissipated evenly throughout space leaving all space at the same motion level. This is the end result of entropy. We see this happening all around us in the universe. What we don’t see is any method going on to reconstruct the lower elements that are being depleted by their combination into higher elements to change some of their mass into all those energy photons that are emitted or to concentrate the photons that are emitted and are being spread equally throughout space back into a localized form as they were in when they were parts of the motions of atoms of the lower elements before those motions were decreased when the lower element atoms were joined together into higher element atoms that contain a smaller total amount of motion, which then give off the excess motion in the form of those photons that are emitted. Since we have a limited distance that we can see due to the speed of light, it is not possible for us to determine whether the universe is infinite or not. If the universe is infinite, however, the universe itself could not disperse or expand any more, but that which is in the universe can still spread out more equally in the universe through time. The point of entropy is that the stability point is the equal distribution of all motions in the universe and every thing that we see from observations in the world indicates that the stability point is the equal distribution of all motions throughout space.

The problem with your field concept can be seen using a simple thought experiment. Suppose you have a light that you can turn on and off very quickly and is very bright when it is on. You turn it on for the length of time that equals one wavelength of the particular frequency that the light emits and then you turn it off. When it is on it generates a spherical field around the light that is one wavelength thick. You then turn the light off. As the field expands outward from the light the volume between the light and the field does not contain the field because the light, which is the source of the field is now turned off. This volume contains only empty space. We therefore have a spherical expanding field that is one wavelength thick moving out from the light in all directions. This electromagnetic field decreases in strength with the square of the distance. This is because it is spread equally at all points in the sphere and the size of the sphere increases at a faster rate the farther it moves from the light. An observer one mile from the light would be able to collect enough energy from the one wavelength thick field wave front to generate a photon, but an observer 10 billion light years away would see a field wave front that would be too dissipated over the 20 billion light year diameter spherical single wavelength thick field wave front to have any chance of generating a photon. This could possibly be tested with light from a pulsar, etc., but one easier way that your theory could be tested would be to down scale it to a manageable size. You could use a very dim directional polarized light source like a laser that would only emit a very narrow beam of light that would either contain say 10 photons or by your theory would generate a field that could condense out 10 photons while it is on for a very short time. You could then place a very sensitive sensor that could detect the 10 photons at a distance of let’s say 10 feet and measure the time that it took the light to reach that point and allow the photons to be detected. You could then move the sensor to a point that is let’s say 1000 feet or whatever distance that you calculated would make the field strength too weak to allow it to condense out all ten photons from the light. The sensor would still sense all 10 photons if photons were generated at the laser. If the light travels in the form of photons it should reach the second point in exactly 100 times the amount of time that the light took to reach the first test position of 10 feet or the multiple of the difference if some other distance was used than the 1000 ft in the example. If the light travels as a continuous field, however there would be some additional time required for the photons to condense out of the weaker field at the farther test point that would be additional to the basic travel time. In addition to that it would seem that if you had the laser on for only one wavelength time the field would be very thin and would probably weaken enough so that all ten photons would no longer be able to condense out of it as it passed by the sensor. Since in this experiment the field is not continuous, but very thin, it would be expected that there would not be time as the one wavelength wave front passed the sensor to build up energy to generate as many photons at the farther test point as it did at 10 ft. The end result is that if your theory is correct you would either see the extra time for the photons to condense out at the farther test point or you would see fewer than 10 photons condense out at that point than if the photons were generated at the source and traveled to the sensor directly. The path would have to be free of dust or anything else that could interact with the photons to assure a valid result. You could make the light dimmer, but leave it on for a longer time so that it still would generate 10 photons at the 10 ft point to see if that allowed more of the 10 photons to be condensed out at the farther test point because of the extra thickness of the field to allow more energy to collect. Moreover, there is no known storage mechanism to store the energy from one wavelength and then add it to the next wavelength behind it, etc. to collect and build up the energy to the point that a photon could be condensed out of the field. What do you see as the mechanism that condenses the photon out of the field and how is the energy stored at the point of photon generation until it is enough to condense out a photon? If there were some mechanism to store the energy from one wavelength in the field and then add the energy from the next wavelength to it, etc., the photon that would be produced would not be red shifted. It would only be delayed for the number of wavelength times that were required to collect enough energy to condense out the photon. One problem with your wording is that a quanta is supposed to be the minimum amount of light that you can have at a given frequency and wavelength of light. In order for you to collect energy over time to build up a quanta, you would have to be collecting the energy in some amounts that were smaller than a quanta or smaller than the minimum amount that you can have.

I can understand how you might consider God to be so far beyond your comprehension and you would be right if you had to try to understand him completely on your own with no information provided by him that would tell you about him, but he has provided information to us that gives us knowledge about who he is, what he is doing, and how we fit into his purposes. You are right that we are not capable of understanding the complete depth of his existence, but he does tell us that he created us for a purpose and our lives are tied up into his purpose for creating this world in that it was created to allow us to become parts of his body and making this body for himself is his purpose for creating this world including us. This means that God is extremely relevant to how life functions because he created it and is using it to fulfill his purpose here and we are the main focus of his work here. It is not that we can fully comprehend God, but that he comprehends us and has given us information in a way that we can understand that tells us that he desires a relationship with us and tells us the manor of that relationship and how we can obtain it. God made all the detail and is continually in control of all of it. He planned out all of the details from the beginning to the end before he began to make it, so all of it is relevant to him. We don’t see or understand the relevance of all things because of our limited abilities, but he gives us the knowledge of those things that are relevant for us to know for us to be able to be the part of his work that he intends for us to be. The spirit is also a complex structure. There are some things in this world that are relative, but in reality most things in our daily lives tend to be more absolute than relative. The world is such that most things tend to stay the same unless they are changed by someone or something. Things do relate and vary depending on other things, but those relationships are also often absolute or at least always variable in limited pattern dispersions. You can certainly make yourself your own point of focus, but it is not that you must do so. You could also make God your focus and live your life with your focus on learning about him and how you can relate to him and him to you. It is true that those without God generally focus on themselves as the center of their concern in life. That is where the relativism concept comes in. Each person in that condition considers all things relative to how they affect him and his interests. It is looking at things only from that narrow viewpoint of one’s self interest instead of considering as many viewpoints as possible or going to the one that has the true global viewpoint that makes everything seem to be relative. The real important thing is not how we define God, but how God defines himself to us because in reality he is as he is and although he may not tell us everything about himself because it would be too much for us to comprehend, what he does tell us about who he is gives us the best limited set of information about him that we can understand and use in our relationship with him. When everybody makes up their own definition of God, you will get each one making a different God to satisfy his own desires of what he would like him to be, so you get the idea that God is relative, but if they are all different only one of them could really be describing the way God really is and it would be likely that none of them would get it right. God is as he is though in reality and even millions of people making up false gods in their minds relative to what they desire him to be won’t change him or who he is in any way. The problem with the idea that everything is relative and can be defined by each person the way that he desires is that every person will define everything for his own gain and with his own selfish desires in mind with the end result being the breakdown of society. Everyone will define what pleases him to be good and anything that displeases him to be bad. Suppose I ask you to do some work for me that will take 1 hour to do and I say that when the work is done I will give you 10 dollars. You finish the work and ask me for the money and I give you a dime. You tell me that I am cheating you, but I say that I have merely defined the dollar as 1 cent to the dollar on any money that I must pay out and as 10,000 cents to the dollar on any money that I am to receive from others. I see nothing wrong with this, as all things are relative so I should be able to define anything as I desire to, relative to me as the focus. I, therefore, am being good to you because I paid you what I owe, but you are being a bad person because you are trying to cheat me out of more than I owe you. Who would you be to try to force your interpretation (that a dollar is worth 100 cents whether it is on money that is coming in or going out) on me. Your interpretation seems to be very foolish to me because I would have to pay out more and receive less and since my focus is only on me and my viewpoint relative to myself, I have no reason to consider the effects that my interpretation has on you or anyone else. My point is that we don’t really live that way and the closer people get to actually living that way the more society breaks down. We do recognize that many things in the world are absolute so that we can all use the same definitions for those things and even things like the dollar that are just made up by us can be set by agreement to a specific definition that we all agree to accept and go by in our relations with each other. If you were standing on top of a thousand foot high building, you could ignore reality and define it as only being one foot high, but I would recommend that you not jump off of it even if it would only be a one-foot jump to you. The best definition of God is not the ones that we might make up, but the one that he has made up and has revealed to us both in the things that he has made in the creation that tell us about him and also in the scriptures in which he has set those things down in a way that can be easier to see and understand. Of course, if a person has taken the second step away from God and, therefore, does not believe God’s word to be true, it will be harder for him because he will only have the world to look at to find God’s definition of himself and if the person is only focusing on himself he will not likely find it. In my case I found enough of it in the world so that when I looked at the scriptures I could see that they are true. At that point I could look at the world to confirm other things that were given in the scriptures that I had not previously noticed and the confirmation has always been there. Of course, I was looking for God to see if he really exists and if so how he really is instead of just making up a definition of him in my mind to suit my desires, so my focus was more on him than on myself. Actually, I have found that the more I focus on what is around me and the less I focus on myself, the closer I get to understanding things the way that they really are because I don’t get in the way and distract myself from seeing things as they are. I have found that many of the things that happen to me in the world are actually images of things that God has done, is doing, or will do in the world to give me a better understanding of them and the effects that they have both on God and also on us. Some of these things are not pleasant to experience, but going through them gives one a much deeper appreciation for what God is going through to accomplish his purpose here and a sharing of his experiences in a way that more closely joins us to him in a depth of understanding and fellowship that we could not obtain in any other way. As an example, God does not give us the commandment to preach the gospel because he could not do it himself. He could just give it to people directly if he desired to do so, but when I do it I share in the experiences of Jesus when he did the same in this world and can then much better understand what he went through to do it for us, so we could be saved. Even though I understand that he suffered much more than I have in doing it, I still get much more of an understanding than I could from just reading about it. One interesting thing that I have found is that even when I didn’t believe in God, he caused me to go through these images of his works. I just did not see and understand them then because I didn’t know about what he was doing so I could not see the similarities. It opened up to me that the things that happen to me are not just random happenings, but have purpose and that I can learn much from them that I was blind to before. These things are one of God’s ways of communicating to us that he exists and what he is doing. It is one way that God pushes back on us. We who are in the church (the body of Christ) do not need to hide. We are given much work to do in the world. We also don’t need to hide in the scriptures because the same things are written openly in the world for those who care to look and see them. Although a complete understanding of God’s definition of good and evil (bad) is complex because there are rules and some exceptions to those rules that must be understood and considered in actual applications to get a complete understanding, the differences can be understood. The definitions of Christian and heathen are not that difficult. A Christian is one who has received Christ as his Lord and savior. Heathens are those who have not done so and are therefore separate from God. In the long run it is all about being an acceptable part of what God is doing, acceptable to God that is.

view post as summary

Jason,

I am glad to hear that you are in good physical health. It is definitely worth suffering some pain to find God. What are the symptoms that you suffer with the ADD? I ask that because there are many conditions that I have seen identified as ADD. You don’t have to answer if it is too personal. I believe that much of what is called ADD is the result of environmental conditions and...

view entire post

Jason,

I am glad to hear that you are in good physical health. It is definitely worth suffering some pain to find God. What are the symptoms that you suffer with the ADD? I ask that because there are many conditions that I have seen identified as ADD. You don’t have to answer if it is too personal. I believe that much of what is called ADD is the result of environmental conditions and is reversible. Some of the problems are also caused by drugs that people are sometimes put on for it.

Those who are true Christians and grown up in Christ do not do violence to others. Our job is to heal the broken hearted (broken minded) not to destroy them. In the Old Testament God had people do such things so that we could see that doing things that way doesn’t work. In the New Testament we are commanded to not do such things and we don’t need to because God says, Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. In my experience I have found that God can do much more than I would consider doing if I took vengeance myself, (not a scare tactic just an observation). There are some who are babes in Christ that don’t yet understand and may do some of those things because of their lack of understanding. There are also many that claim to be of Christ that really are not. These also may do these things. God does use them and others though to do his will in the world to take care of his people.

Male and Female is not something that pertains to God. He creates directly by himself as he did this world and us in it. Male and female were made for us as an image so that we could get an idea of the relationship that he intends for us to have with him. He made the man in his image and the woman in the image of man so that in a perfect marriage between a man and woman who are both perfect we could get a glimpse of the relationship that he desires to have with us joined to him as his body members. It will be much better than the image, of course. In the world to come we won’t be male or female. God himself is compassionate and healing above all others as can be clearly seen in the works of healing that he did through Jesus in this world and in the fact that Jesus came and gave up his life for us, so we can be saved. You have the wrong idea of how it is to come to God, if you do so with good intent in your heart to get to know him and have an honest desire to do his will and please him. If you have much stress and are under heavy burdens you should come to God in the scriptures. Jesus says, Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. When I came to God he showed me that I did not need to be concerned with proving myself and my worth to others or worrying about what others would try to do against me for their own advantage at my expense, etc. I found that he is more than able to take care of me in any situation and give me all that I need. When I home schooled my son, which I was at first not sure that I could do successfully and worried about it, God showed to me in his word how he has made for us to be able to learn things in the best way and I found that it worked better than any other way that I had previously seen anywhere else. In all aspects of life God knows the best ways to do all things in the creation because he made it and knows how it all works. I found that most of the mental suffering that I had experienced in the past was because I tried to take on the world by myself and found that I wasn’t good enough to handle it. When I gave my life over to God to take care of me I found that he could do a much better job of it than I ever could. This allowed me to be free from all of those useless burdens so that I could apply myself to doing the really important things in life. I find it interesting that most people at some point in their lives find out that they really can’t control their lives, but they always seem to be compelled to put on a front to give others the impression that they can. At the same time all the others are doing the same thing. I find it kind of comical. It is sort of like the emperor has no clothes story. They are all afraid to come out and admit it for fear of what others will say. It is so ingrained into society that you could lose your job if you tell your boss that you really can’t promise that you will do something for sure because you can’t be sure that something won’t come up that will prevent you from completing the work, etc., but inside you know it is true. This is just one of many stresses that people put on other people in every day life that God can free you from because he shows you that he never intended for you to take on that kind of responsibility. He can free you from all of the heavy burdens that others put on you. God says that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but that is not the kind of relationship that he desires to have with you because he later says that perfect love casteth out all fear. When you first come to him, you must come to him as a servant willing to do as he says, but as you follow him he will show you what he is doing and why he has you do the things that he asks you to do. In the end you will understand that what he asks you to do is all for your good so that you can be prepared to be a capable member of his body. After he has told you all these things he will no longer treat you as a servant, but as his son and you will see that the love that he gives to you gives you the knowledge, ability, and desire to return love back to him and your relationship will change from one of doing his will out of fear of what he will do if you don’t, to doing his will out of love for him to please him because you now understand that he is only asking you to do what is best for you, him, and all of the members of his body and that we are all one together. When your search is completed and you have found God or more perfectly are found of God, you may no longer need the ADD.

The offense is not that you are not a Christian, but that you would put some small part of God’s creation up to him as though it is equal to him. The worst offence that someone can make that way is to deny God’s existence and put himself up as God. Next would be to put up some other man, some other lower creature such as a bull, or some dead thing like a god carved out of a tree, etc., as God. God says that such people will carve their god out of a tree and then burn the rest of the tree in the fire to cook their meal and not consider that they just burned up some of what they made their god out of. In these cases people try to replace God with something that is much less than he is. You did not do anything that bad. You should realize that the true God who created the whole universe that we can see and much more that we can’t see is much more than all of the things that he has created. The ones that you call the ascended masters were just people like us. Even if they were to have ascended in some way they are still nothing in comparison to the one that created them along with the rest of the universe. The angels are above and greater than us, but God just calls them ministering spirits. When John was taken up into heaven he started to worship an angel that showed him things about the world to come, but the angel said, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. If one of the highest beings except for God the Father and his Son tells you he should not be worshiped, but directly tells you to worship God, some man whether ascended in some way or not is nothing in comparison to his creator, God. I didn’t mean to imply that God’s intent is to smite you for doing what you did. I am sure that he understands that you just did not know any better and he would be delighted that you were at least trying to come to him the best that you knew how to at the time. When I first came to God, I did some stupid things also. God probably got a good laugh out of some of them. We just don’t know any better until he shows us in his word what he desires and what he dislikes for us to do. He understands that and has compassion on us in our ignorance. The only real problem is if someone willingly goes against God’s will after he has shown to him how things really work and what he desires for him to do and why it is important for him to do things his way. That would be willful rebellion against God and is sin. Even then God can have patience and long suffering with and use compassion on such a person if it is what he needs to bring him to repent (turn away from) his sin, ask for his sin to be forgiven and return to God. There are some, however that will not respond to compassion, but with some of them God will use fear because they will respond to that. It is better for someone who goes away from God to experience loss and return to God out of fear than for him to be lost and not saved. Those who return and stay with God come to realizes that God’s correction was for their benefit as children in this world that have good parents realize (after they are grown up) that things that their parents did to correct them when they were young were for their good even though they did not think so at the time. It is always easier to see and understand those things much later, especially after you have children of your own and you have to go through similar things yourself. The best thing to do is to stay with God in his love and compassion. My experience when I came to God (or really when he called me to him) was similar to yours in that God gave me knowledge that I desired and used that knowledge to draw me to him except that when he showed himself to me I did not hesitate to come to him and try to learn all that I could about him because I did really desire that relationship with him. I have talked to some that were called in a more painful way though, mostly because they did not respond to him when he called. There are some like that recorded in the scriptures. Jonah, for example, was told by God to go to Nineveh and witness to the people there that because of their great evil he was going to destroy them, but he refused God and got into a boat to go to a different place. God caused a great storm and when the crew found out that it was because of Jonah they threw him overboard so their boat would not sink. God then had a Whale swallow him and he lived in the whale’s belly for three days. He then repented and God caused the Whale to vomit him back up onto dry land. Needless to say that he then went to Nineveh and witnessed to the people as God had asked him to do. It may sound like God is kind of hostile toward both Jonah and the people of Nineveh, but when they heard from Jonah that God planned to destroy them, the people of Nineveh repented of their evil and returned to God and so were saved from that destruction and at the same time were no longer doing evil to others. The scare tactic as you might call it worked to make Nineveh a better place to live because the people there were made to be better by God’s action. Figuring that you are wise enough to take God up on his offer of salvation in Christ, you owe him much more than some volunteer work. You owe him your life and there is no way that you can pay him back. As I said he doesn’t really need your work. It would be easier for him to do the work that he gives you to do himself and he would do a better job at it. The work that he gives us to do is really for our benefit so that we can learn about him and his work in this world and partake in fellowship with him. It is your kindergarten class. If you were unwise enough to turn him down, you wouldn’t owe him anything and he also wouldn’t owe you anything including salvation and life in the world to come or anything else in your life in this world. You would have no reason to complain to him regardless of what happens in your life because you would be choosing to live completely separate from him. It is not that God would be offended if you turn him down and don’t accept Christ. It would be more like how it would be to you if you asked your girlfriend to marry you and had a brand new mansion prepared for her to live in with you and offered to give her anything that she desired in terms of riches and your time with her and your love and care for her and told her that you desired to be together and do all things together with her without end and you could actually give all that to her and she would tell you that she would rather spend her life with several worthless people that would give her nothing and would expect her to work hard for them instead.

Since you say that your problem is your stress level and Jesus says that if you come to him he will give you rest, I suggest that you get a copy of the king James scriptures with Jesus’ words in the New Testament in red print and just read his words and see if it helps your stress. You may be surprised.

On your post of July 1, 2009:

I am Glad that God has brought the two of you together again. I hope it all works out well for you both.

Superstring theory is only an approximation and is not really how the world works. There are still many things about the creation that man has not yet been given by God to understand. There are places that exist that man knows nothing about and many concepts that have not yet been given that will greatly change people’s lives in this world. All of the things that people have been given in the last one to two hundred years, such as radio, television, cars, airplanes, cell phones, and computers, etc. are nothing in comparison to some of the things still to come. Fifth vector structuring technology will offer something close to what you desire because it will offer the ability to do things that would today be considered contrary to the laws of physics, but such laws change all the time with new knowledge, as man's understandings come closer to the true laws. That will not happen in our time in this world, however. Fourth vector structuring technology could be given at any time that the people are ready for it, however, and it also offers some surprises.

view post as summary

Steve,

Yes, choosing the good way is the most important thing to do and love is the basis of that way. God summarizes the good way with the following two commandments: 1.Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and with all thy strength and 2. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. I find that many do not really want to keep the...

view entire post

Steve,

Yes, choosing the good way is the most important thing to do and love is the basis of that way. God summarizes the good way with the following two commandments: 1.Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind and with all thy strength and 2. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. I find that many do not really want to keep the first commandment even though it is the most important one to keep because you cannot keep the second one unless you keep the first one. I find many that would like to get others to keep the second commandment. As a matter of fact when I was an agnostic, I agreed with that commandment and thought it would be good if everyone kept it. I even tried to keep it myself. I found that I failed to do so very well, however. It wasn’t until I came to God that I came to understand why I couldn’t keep it no matter how hard I tried.

First I found out that Rousseau was wrong. Man is not born good. That is a myth. Anyone who has raised children knows that. I raised four of them and what I found is that children are naturally programmed to be selfish. A young child lives by learning how to manipulate his parents to get them to do what he needs and desires. As a child grows, his manipulation skills get more sophisticated and he begins to apply them to other people besides just his parents. When a child is young, he cannot do anything in exchange for what he gets others to do for him, so his manipulation skills are developed toward getting others to do things for him without any cost to him. Unless the child’s understanding is corrected as he gets older, so that he is given to understand the true meaning of love and compassion for others and is taught to do things for others in return for what he gets from them and also learns to give to others that are in need when he has the ability to do so without expecting something in return, he will naturally develop into a very selfish person who expects everyone to do everything for him and will not consider that he should do anything in return or that he should give anything that he has to those in need, etc. If the child is not corrected he will come to believe that everyone else owes him anything that he desires to have, so he will not see anything wrong with lying, or cheating others to get them to give him what he wants from them. In extreme cases he will just take what he wants from others. Since some others (especially those like him) will resist him and because he is programmed for survival, he will not see anything wrong with using violence to get what he wants. Truly loving your children includes giving them the true understanding of the meaning of love and compassion and the correction to them that they need as they grow, so that they can grow up as loving, compassionate, and, responsible members of society. I have found that without God man’s concept of love is limited. Those without God generally will give to others as long as they get at least as much in return, but most will not give more than they will get back unless they get something else that they value as enough to make them come out even in their mind such as public recognition as a good person that they can then use to get more gain from others, etc. This built in selfish type of love limits man’s natural abilities, so men cannot live and work together effectively with others in a way that is best to produce a good life for all. This is why you always have the rich who take more and the poor who get less than others. Man also has other built in weaknesses in his built in programming such as a built in strong desire to have sexual relations without also having a strong built in desire to first be sure that provisions have been made to take care of the children that can result. This has resulted in the killing of millions of children by abortion. Abortion not only is a result of that problem, but is also an easily seen example of man’s limited natural ability to love others because their own child’s life is considered of less value to the parents than their comfort.

Good and evil were both created by God. They are parts of God’s generation of our ability to have free choice. Some of the choices that God produced are neutral in that all of the possible choices concerning such a thing are acceptable and basically all of equal value. You may choose vanilla ice cream while I may like chocolate, but both choices are of equal value so it is just a matter of personal likes or dislikes. God also made some choices to be unequal with one of more value than another. He had to do that in order to allow us to choose him or not because there is no one equal to him. He created another choice with a value that is much less than him (Satan) both so we would have a choice and also so that the choice would be easy for any reasonable person to make the right decision. In order to separate those who really desire him from those who just desire what would give them the most gain for themselves, he allowed the other choice (Satan) to try to deceive people to believe that they would be better off to choose him by telling them that they could be like God, etc. In addition when God made the creation he made it to work in certain ways and not to work in other ways, so that man could have choices to make with different values that would determine how successful he would be at making things in the creation work for his benefit. As an example, he made man and woman and made it so that they could come together and produce children through sexual relations. Because the children need complete care when young and only gradually gain the ability to take care of themselves, he created marriage to provide that the man and woman would be joined together for life, so that together they would have the ability to take care of the children that they produced over the many years required. In the context of marriage the strong sexual desire that each would have for the other would bring them closer together in love for each other and encourage them to stay together. He also gave them natural feelings for the children, so that they could endure all the hard work necessary to bring them up properly. Of course people can also make choices to do things in a different way than the one that God made that works, but when they do so the result is not good. Men and women can make the choice to have sexual relations without first preparing themselves to have the resources to be able to take care of the children that are produced or by not first being joined together in marriage so they are not both fully committed to take care of those children in a loving relationship together. The result is unwanted children with no one to take care of them. This causes many problems such as having children that are brought up by only one parent (most often the mother) without adequate resources and time to properly bring them up. When these children grow up they tend to be much like the selfish people described above or have various other problems that make them to not perform as responsible members of society. Another problem is the introduction of abortion as the way to get rid of the unwanted children. The end result of that is that the value of life in the minds of the people is greatly diminished in the world and this causes people to treat each other worse in many ways in addition to destroying the lives of their own children. One reason that people have sexual relations without marriage is because they desire to do so with many people instead of just one as God intended, but the result of doing so is a great increase in diseases that are spread in this manor. So you can see that when the choice is made that goes along with God’s design of a system that is a part of his creation in the world, the result is good and those that make that choice benefit from working in accord with the way that the creation is made to work. When a choice is made that goes against the way that the creation is designed to work the result is bad and generates problems that then generate other problems and so on, so that much harm is done to the world and those who live in it. God calls the choices that work to make a better life, the world a better place to live in, that work to join us to him, and help us to grow up into perfected members of his body good and he calls the choices that make life worse, the world a worse place to live in, that work to separate us from him, and keep us from growing up into perfected members of his body evil. Because he loves us he desires that we have the good and not the evil, so he has given commandments to us in his word that tell us the choices to make that will work for our benefit. He made the creation, so he knows how it works so he can give us commandments that (if we do them) will make the world work for us. He also gives us information in the scriptures that helps us to understand about him, what he is doing and how the world works, so we will know that the commandments that he has given us tell us the best way to do things with him and in the world. You could look at the scriptures as the operator manual for the world. As an example, If you buy a new car you could decide to drive it backwards everywhere you went instead of driving it forwards the way it is designed to be driven, and you may have some success at doing so, but you would find it much harder to control with the steering in the back and having to turn around to look behind you, etc. and, therefore, much more prone to getting into accidents from loss of control. If you somehow got good enough at driving it that you could take it out on the freeway, you would find that you have another much more serious problem. Because the transmission is designed for forward driving, you would find that if you drove for any very long distance at high speeds in reverse the transmission would overheat and fail. Then you would not have a drivable car at all. The world works in much the same way. You can sometimes do things contrary to the way God designed them to work, but the more you do so and the longer that you do it, the more that things start to break down and the failures can spread to other systems, etc. so that in the end you make your life and everyone else’s lives worse. You also cause much destruction in the world that can take much work by many to repair to restore the systems to good operating condition. More importantly the scriptures are our guide to knowing and understanding how to work with God and become members of his body, which is the ultimate goal of God for creating this world in the first place. His whole purpose for this creation is to produce his body. If you lose sight of that you are of little use to him in fulfilling his purpose and you will be destructive to yourself, the world, and all others that live in the world.

You are right that the education and taking responsibility to do according to what is learned in the proper education is fundamental. That is why God has given his word (the Holy Scriptures) to us. It contains what we need to know so that we can do the good that will make our lives better and work in accordance with the purpose of God’s work in this world and so we can know to not do the evil that will make our lives worse and that would work contrary to the purpose of God’s work in the world.

Without God man is naturally selfish and destructive. He just makes things worse, not better over time. This can be seen clearly throughout history in times in which man has left God, especially when it occurs in powerful nations that have a great worldwide presence, such as in the United States in the present.

Both the bad and the good are real and are parts of God’s creation. We can’t change the bad into good or the good into bad. All we can do is to choose to do the good and chose to not do the bad if we desire to make things better. We really can’t do the good and not do the bad of our own selves, but if we choose to do the good and choose to not do the bad under God’s leadership, God will work through us to do the good and keep us from doing the bad and work in the world to make the world a better place and will join us to him in the body of Christ and bring us up in his love to be perfected in him.

Man can try to unify the good systems and use the adapted sciences, etc. all he wants to, but without God it will only make things worse. I have seen it many times and it always works the same. Man without God just does not understand that God controls all things and allows his people’s works to produce good, but causes the works of those who reject him to produce bad results.

It is the evolution, spherization, and harmonization that are imaginary.

Intelligence can be used either for good (to find cures for diseases) or for evil or bad (to create new diseases). It is a neutral tool. It is the condition of the one that uses it that determines if it is actually used for good or for evil. Those who are of God will use it for good, but those who are not of God will use it for evil.

On your Post of July 3, 2009:

There is great harmony in God the Father, his son Jesus Christ, and the perfected members of his body, of which we can become members. This is because we are all one. This harmony extends into this world through such members of his body that are in the world and works to increase that harmony in the world.

The bad is truly weaker than the good, but men are often deceived to follow the bad rather than the good because of their lusts, greed, and desire for power and to think more of themselves than they really are. Mass is not a basic existence. It is a derived existence in that it is generated by motion. Mass effects are primarily displayed due to the fifth vector motion of motion entities that we call matter particles. It is also somewhat derived from the fourth vector motion of such particles and is responsible for the dynamic mass effects of particles that do not contain a fifth vector motion such as Photons. Because matter particles can be changed into energy photons and visa versa, the total amount of mass effect in the universe is not constant. Because of entropy, motion tends to travel from high motion content entities such as matter particles to lower motion content entities such as photons. This means that over time the mass content of the universe will decrease not increase. If this world were to continue on for a long enough time all matter particles would break down into energy particles and the energy particles would then break down into sub-energy particles. This means that all complex structures would break down and cease to exist. All that would be left would be sub-energy.

You are right that the bad information is weaker than the good information because the bad information is false (not according to reality) while the good information is according to reality or true. If men always made decisions rationally and logically based on reality the good would always be chosen. The problem is that most men would like to be more than they are in reality. They would actually like to be God themselves and make the true God to be their servant. This cannot actually happen in reality, but they would rather live in a fantasy than to accept what is actually a great improvement of their condition as sons of God in his body compared to their present life. It is their irrational desires that make the lie to be stronger in their mind than the truth because the lie fits closer to their selfish desires than the true reality.

Yes, the Christian message is the true information.

Yes, the people in Christ accept the truth and reality. They respect both God and the creation that he made because it is his work.

Yes, the best way that we can act for our fellow man is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to them so they can know the truth and try as hard as we can to get them to come out of their fantasy and to come back to reality so that they can be saved and not lost.

Praying to God is a good work that can help, but you are right that God does command us to go into all the world and preach the Gospel unto every creature.

You are right that there are many in the world that work against God and try to deceive people so they won’t be saved.

Yes, God is love and he was, and is, and is to come.

view post as summary

John,

I didn’t forget gravity. I just won’t go into that much at this time because it would require giving detailed information about fifth vector structuring and some details about sub-energy that it is not yet time for man to know. I have already given more information than I had to start with and the scriptures give more information on top of that so you already have a head start,...

view entire post

John,

I didn’t forget gravity. I just won’t go into that much at this time because it would require giving detailed information about fifth vector structuring and some details about sub-energy that it is not yet time for man to know. I have already given more information than I had to start with and the scriptures give more information on top of that so you already have a head start, if you want to try to figure it out for yourself. I’ll just say that it doesn’t work as explained by current theories, although they can be looked at as approximations. Approximations always fall down in the details, however.

The problem with your theory is that a given element always gives off light that is sensed as photons of the same frequency and wavelengths. This is because the light is emitted to carry off motion that is excess when an electron moves from a higher energy state (higher state of motion) to a lower one in an atom and because an electron cannot just have any state or amount of motion in its path, but is only allowed to take specific paths with specific amounts of motion. The specific paths that are allowed have to do with the stable combinations of the electron’s fourth vector and fifth vector velocities that generate internal frequencies, wavelengths, and variable mass effects in the electron in relation to those of the other constituents of the atom among other things. The outer electrons in a given atom are the ones most responsible for this emission and a given electron can have several stable energy levels that it can move between. The amount of motion that is freed when an electron moves from one of it’s stable motion state levels to another one in not the same as when it moves from another one or skips a whole stable level to go to the one below it, etc. This means that a specific type of atom can give off photons of more that one frequency and wavelength, but there is a limited number of discrete wavelengths that an atom of a specific element can give off. All of the different frequencies of light that a specific element can give off are called its spectrum and that is what spectrum analysis is all about. By looking at light that is coming from a certain source you can determine the elements that it is composed of by the frequencies of light that it gives off. It is not quite that simple when you are talking about fusion reactions, but the principle is the same so that the fusion of two atoms of each element is also identifiable by the amount of excess energy that is converted from the mass of the two atoms into fourth vector motion (to generate a photon) as a result of the reaction. If your theory was right, the more you heated up a source of light to produce a brighter light, the higher frequency and shorter wavelength would be the photons that you would get. In reality you just get more photons of the same frequency and wavelength. If the amount of motion is conveyed by an overall field then the output of motion from many atoms in a local source would be combined to create a stronger field and the stronger field could condense out photons that contained more motion (higher frequency and shorter wavelength) than would be produced by a weaker field, but this is not actually seen in reality. Instead you just get more photons of the same frequency and wavelength. This can be seen by examining the photoelectric effect. You can take a light that emits photons of low frequency light and no matter how bright you make the light it still can’t knock electrons out of the atoms because the motion contained in each photon (as demonstrated by its frequency and wavelength) is not enough to raise the electron from its current energy state to the point that it can escape the atom. On the other hand you can take a source that emits photons with sufficient motion content and even a dim source can cause some photoelectric effect by knocking electrons out of atoms due to the greater dynamic mass effect of the greater fourth vector motion contained in those higher frequency and shorter wavelength photons. If the strength of the field determined the frequency of the photons that condensed out, it would not work that way because the very bright light source would produce a much stronger overall field out from which photons would be condensed and would, therefore produce higher frequency photons than the weak source would.

God is neither male nor female. When he refers to himself while communicating with man he uses the male form so as to be in accordance with the structure of the image that he gave to man, in which man (male) is made in the image of God and woman (female) is made in the image of the man. This is merely to minimize confusion on our part and to keep the image consistent in form. In the world to come we won’t be male or female either, so the worry about such things is just much ado about nothing.

view post as summary

Hi all ,

Our Story shows us our spirituazl evolution .

Let's take the Book of Death ,the Egyptians 2000-1500 before the Christ .

It was the first book about life and death ,the universal link in fact .

About 1400....still the search of secrets ,mysteries ....like the Mysteries of Eleusis ....and that continues ....

about 1200 Moise and the Judaism ...Yahvé to...

view entire post

Hi all ,

Our Story shows us our spirituazl evolution .

Let's take the Book of Death ,the Egyptians 2000-1500 before the Christ .

It was the first book about life and death ,the universal link in fact .

About 1400....still the search of secrets ,mysteries ....like the Mysteries of Eleusis ....and that continues ....

about 1200 Moise and the Judaism ...Yahvé to Abraham ...and the "Arch of alliance"...1200-350 the Bible ,the holy scripture,ta biblia (the books)...the first different roads ...perhaps some vanity people still for the checking .....The torah and the christian bible ....Oh My God ...Job ..and Jonas and the big fish...Guttemberg in 1400 after ....

In the same time in Asia ,the Hindouism (1200 1500)...Brahma,Vishnou Shiva...the search of the eternity ..

Between 1000 and 960 ,David and Bethsabee....and Jerusalem and the messianic message (Missiha)....many prophets appear between 850 and 550 before The Christ ,......Jeremie,Elie,Isaie,Amos.....and many books appear too .

In Greece,many philosopjies too appear in correlation with the search of the eternity ,truth.Let's take Orphea ....Orphism...pythagorism....platonism....and the mythes too logically .Humans continue to discover this Universe and its dynamics of evolution .

In Iran ,Zarathustra(660-583) and Mazdeism ....the monoteism .... There is there an important point between Orient,Asia.....In India between 600 and 300 before.....many philosophies appear...(jainism,Upanishad.....)

And that continues with Siddartha Gottama Bouddha(566-486),Confucius (551-479),Lao Tseu(570-490),Tchouang tseu (350-275)......humans try to understand still and always ,we interact ,........and the Greece too on the other side of our Earth ...Socrate(469-399)....Platon(482-347)....Epicure(400-300)..
..the Hindouism in Asia continues too with the Bhagavad-Gita...(200before-200 after)

And 200 before the Christ we can't read the sriptures ,The Apokruphos,and our eyes can't see ......The old Testament and the new testament ....due to some revolutions by some people ....and the diaspora ......It's the result of Essenians(Hassidim) and the scriptures of the Mer morte...What I find intriguing is the Board of Twelve and the Master of Justice .

Our Earth Story continues and ...

The Christ ,the divin master appears and the second person of the trinity ....and he says ,Don't go to beleive what I am come to discriminate the Law or prophets ,No I am here to accomplish ...Matthieu V,1-17....And the mountains can be ......the Christionaity ,Pierre ,Paul,Smon,....the redemption on the sky ....between 70 and 100 the four books and the acts ....the secrets of the divin with the apocalyps ,Babylon .

The world is a whole I think and all must be studied ,between the first and fourth siecle the apologists ,the christianism ,Irenee,Clement and the Stromates,the hypotyposes...the eternity always .

And that continues with the two Carthagians ,Hilaire ...the oeucumenics Concils (Constantinople,Chalcedoine,Ephese).....and the fathers of the desert...the world contnues to change everywhere ,it's important to know that I think.

In Europe between the medieval and 1500 ,many systems appear and in the same time in 571 Muhammad born and Islam .

When I analyze this period ,it's a crucial point .between 600 and 900 ,many expansions appear in secrets and that everywhere ,in fact some complexifications but implying choatics systems .

The problem is not the message ,but the human comportments and that in all cultures ,religions ,countries .....The power ,the envy ,the monney ,the dictature,the wars.....it's a question of human comportments and Time .

Our Earth turns still and continues to evolves .....between 1000 and 2009 Oh My God Where are we ,what is this crazzy world .It's time to understand the truth and act in this way of love simply .

There I agree about the bad ,it's a human invention but at this time this invention implies many problems because all is a question of good comportments in correlation with our foundamental and universal laws thus a question of bad or good governances simply .The responsability like human is not a joke ,the fact to understand the universal dynamic in evolution show us what we aren't alone ,but unfornutaly,a bad governor don't understand that .But He can evolve it's a message of hope ,he can understand the ultim quantum code of love .Thus The bad will disappear .The question is when .Thus what will be our complementarity ,our velocity of evolution,thus when shall we understand what we are all linked and it exists any differences between all things ,all is unic ,precious and linked ,united in the light .

Humanity is like a rainbow ,a diversity of colors united in the light,

It's difficult o turn off a big fie xith one water drop ,nevertheless a whole of drops makes Ocean....

Sincerely

Steve

view post as summary

Jason,

If you would like to truly have a relationship with God, the only way to get it is through Jesus Christ. Your fears are not well founded though. Jesus’ willingness to die on the cross for us so we can have our sins forgiven and be saved demonstrates that God’s love and compassion toward us is greater than any others. How many others have done that for you. God does not expect...

view entire post

Jason,

If you would like to truly have a relationship with God, the only way to get it is through Jesus Christ. Your fears are not well founded though. Jesus’ willingness to die on the cross for us so we can have our sins forgiven and be saved demonstrates that God’s love and compassion toward us is greater than any others. How many others have done that for you. God does not expect you to come to him as a perfect being with punishment waiting for anything less than perfection. Instead he died for us when we were in our sins so we can have our sins forgiven and come to him and he can teach us and work with us to make us perfect. When Jesus started his ministry on earth the twelve disciples that he chose that ultimately became the twelve apostles were not perfect when he chose them. In one place when he was teaching them he said, If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good gifts to them that ask him. It is evident that they were not perfect, but were called by him when they were still evil. Even in that evil condition, when they responded to God’s call and came to him willing to accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, God was willing to be called their Father. The same applies to us today when we come to God truly desiring to get to know him and have a loving relationship with him and desire to not just try to get what we desire from him, but also to please him and do according to his will and desires (when we desire a two way love relationship). The only ones that need to fear God are the ones that reject him by not accepting his offer of salvation through his only begotten son Jesus Christ and those who desire to come to him only to get what they can get for themselves by making God to be their servant like Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver because he was just there to get gain for himself and did not really care for God and his desires. It would be truly ironic for a man to fear to come to God in the acceptable way in which he would not have any reason to be fearful and as a result end up in the group of the unsaved that really do have a reason to fear God, but to not have the fear of God that he should have there that might lead him back to God to be saved. I have seen many that are similarly deceived in this world, however. My hope is that you will not be one of them. If the masters are part of the same hierarchy, they will tell you that you should go through Jesus Christ to get to God the father and that it is necessary for you to do so to be saved. If they don’t do so they are not of God, but they could be part of the hierarchy of the other side. Since I came to God he has shown many things to me that not only satisfy that need for wonder, but at the same time have given me to understand that the world works in ways that are much different than most think. As an example, I once went into a Laundromat to wash my clothes and after putting my clothes into the machine I sat down to wait for it to get done. I noticed another man sitting there who was trying to throw wadded up sheets of paper into a wastebasket several feet away. He always missed, however. As I watched I began to see a faint clear wedge shape in front of the wastebasket. When the man threw the paper ball it would either hit the wedge on top in which case it was guided by the wedge to go over the basket or it hit the bottom of the wedge and was guided by it to hit the front of the basket or the floor in front of it. I watched this happen for several minutes and then said in my mind, OK now let it go in. The wedge shape changed to a dual wedge that was positioned so that the paper balls now either hit the bottom of the top wedge and was guided into the basket or it hit the top of the bottom wedge and was guided into the basket. I watched again for several minutes and he always got it in the basket. It was apparent that the man throwing the paper balls was not aware of what was going on. He was just glad that he started to get the balls into the basket. So much for everything just happening by chance. It was evident to me that God was allowing me to see something that most people never get to see and that he showed me that he hears and understands my thoughts or he would not know of my request to change what he was doing. When he changed his action in response to my request, he showed me that he is in complete control over such things and that his demonstration to me of these things was for my benefit and learning. You are right that God does not like magic because it is a deception, but he can demonstrate his power to you at the proper time because it is real and true. The main concept is that God desires for you to come to him rather than going to lesser sources. It is good that you see that God is the hidden hand that makes spiritual or any other kind of healing possible. You might also consider that he can also give you the right words to say or keep you from saying the wrong words to others. God is greater than all the magicians and sorcerers, etc. in the world put together. He can show you things that none of them can and he doesn’t need to resort to deception to do it. After all, he is the one who wrote the book that we live in.

view post as summary

Steve,

Your welcome.

I wasn’t just talking about a math model though because all math models are at best images or similitudes of reality, but are not the real thing. They are just abstract language representations. Because of man’s limited knowledge, they are generally greatly lacking and leave a lot to be desired. I find it better to work with reality and only use math when...

view entire post

Steve,

Your welcome.

I wasn’t just talking about a math model though because all math models are at best images or similitudes of reality, but are not the real thing. They are just abstract language representations. Because of man’s limited knowledge, they are generally greatly lacking and leave a lot to be desired. I find it better to work with reality and only use math when it is an explicit part of that reality. The state of quantum physics and string theory today shows what can happen when theories based completely on math models divorced from reality are allowed to run wild. You tend to end up with a lot of gibberish that adds very little to understanding, but instead can greatly hinder a better understanding of reality.

I agree with you that we see stars, planets, and some things that have been interpreted by some to be black holes (I won’t talk about black holes right now because it would require going into areas that are currently not open for dissemination), but we don’t really see evolution. With the large numbers of living creatures around us the probability would be increased to the point that we should be seeing many evolutionary changes every year now, but we don’t. With the large amount of the biochemical machinery necessary to build living creatures that is spread around in the world from creatures that have died, we should be seeing many new life forms coming about from it, but we don’t. It all just turns back into dirt through entropy. The main support for the theory of evolution is the fossil record, but that data can be interpreted in other ways such as that in the past there were many other types of living creatures in existence that have now died out, which is much more in accord with what we actually see in the world around us, as science has observed several species go extinct in the past one hundred years, but has not observed any new ones being formed. God is the creator of the ultimate language of building, but it is not built upon a math model similar to man’s. First it should be evident to anyone who studies any written language in this world that math is only a small part of a language. This is because it is not sufficient of itself to describe the world around us in an intelligible and timely way. We use words and larger multiword constructions in addition to math to allow us to construct higher level hierarchical meanings and relationships that either can’t be expressed at all in math form or would be too unwieldy in math form for us to understand or use in relation with other such meanings and relationships. Most of man’s present written languages use an abstract form that starts out with letters that for the most part do not have any meaning in themselves. In the English language this would be the letters a through z. These letters are combined together to produce words that do have some meaning. The words are still abstract forms in that you would not know what the word represents just by looking at it if you had not been previously informed as to its meaning. These words are combined together into larger multiword assemblies called sentences at the next higher hierarchical level to show more detailed meanings and to show relationships between meanings. These hierarchical layers of structure continue up through paragraphs, chapters, books, etc. The end result is a structure that is still completely abstract in that you could not look at a book and get any useful meaning from it if you did not know the language to allow you to read it. God’s language of the creation starts out in much the same way with letters that are written in the form of motions. These motions are combined together in specific ways in five dimensions for our world (not counting the heavens, etc. that we cannot experience directly) to generate particles of sub-energy, energy, and matter, etc. At these first two hierarchical levels the language is mainly abstract to us in our level of interface with the world. The matter particles are combined together at the next level to produce atoms of the elements. This is the first level that exhibits literal translations in that there are large- scale objects that we can observe that are composed of large numbers of atoms of an individual element. At this stage light photons are used to interface and transfer the details of such structures to us so that we can have a way to observe them. This transfer method is used in all higher hierarchical levels also. Next the various atoms are combined together to form molecules, etc., which are used to translate abstract forms into all of the other literal forms that we can observe and use and that add meanings and understandings in our lives in this world. There are also higher hierarchical layers like those used to generate living creatures, etc., but you should get the idea that God’s building language is much more complex than anything that man can make and it is not completely composed of abstract math structures, but is also composed of both abstract and literal language forms and complex organized structures. God did not choose to present abstract math formulas to us, but flowers, trees, animals, people, mountains, valleys, rivers, oceans, etc. in which the meanings are transferred to us in a literal form just by observing them.

The physical reality is the reality of who God is and the reality of how his creation is constructed and works and what its overall purpose is. Our physical reality is that part of the physical reality that God has presented to us at this time so that we can observe and learn to understand it.

Quantum physics is a dead end structure as it is presented today because it is presented in a form that discourages the search for the level below it that explains the generation of the quantum effects.

I agree with you that when a people has the real faith, it is the most important and it is important to know why we are here. I also agree that God has an ultimate aim or purpose for us. The problem is that we do not see God’s purpose to be the same. You are concentrated on the earth as an endless entity that somehow will evolve to make the perfect beings that can live together in love and harmony. The problem with this concept is that it can easily be observed that the whole creation is slowly running down and wearing out. The planet earth will likely be destroyed by natural causes or by man way before then. Those who put their hope in the planet earth existing without end or even on the whole creation existing without end are fighting a losing battle. Even if the perfect beings could somehow evolve, they will be destroyed when the creation wears down to the point that it can no longer support them. Of course, if my belief is right, God will destroy the earth much sooner (probably in the next two thousand years) so there would not be adequate time for any evolution to create such beings even if evolution really worked. You haven’t yet explained what you believe will happen to you when you die. Do you believe that you will just cease to exist because you are not the perfect being or do you believe that you come back some way, etc.? My belief is based on God’s word and is confirmed in me by my observations of the world around me. My observations of the world that confirmed to me that the world would come to an end were seen well before I even read the scriptures when I was still an agnostic and they are, therefore, independent of my study of the scriptures. The scriptures merely confirmed them and gave the explanation as to why it was made to wear down. In the scriptures God plainly says that his portion from this world (what he will take from it) is his people. Once he has his people the rest of the creation will have no use for him and he will recover the motion that he put into it, which will destroy it. This applies not only to the earth, but also even includes the heavens, which means the whole creation. The only hope for survival for people is to go in accordance to God’s work and become his people. The only way that this can be accomplished is the way that God has chosen to provide for us, which is to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and savior, ask and receive forgiveness for sins through him and become members of the body of Christ.

If evolution is prone to errors of such magnitude that they could destroy the earth and end any possibility of evolution succeeding, it is not very likely to succeed in the long term because it will almost surely make an error that will cause its destruction over a long enough period.

You are right that men’s false religions usually change to agree with whatever people want to believe at the time. My guess is that yours will change similarly also. There are also some who say that they are Christians that try to do the same, But God has promised that he changes not, so we know that he won’t change his purpose just to suit popular demand. He just uses all the others to filter out those that are not acceptable to become members of his body because they are not willing to accept him as he is.

That is one thing that God has given to us all is the right to believe as we will, but believing in something does not make it reality. God still wins in the long run because he alone has the power to make his desire become reality. Everyone else’s desires are subject to his willingness to make them come to pass and he won’t allow any to happen that would mean he would have to give up his purpose for this creation.

You haven’t really explained what you mean by spherization I would like for you to do so in plain English words not math formulas. What is your idea of the ultimate entropy? It sounds like it is something different from the normal definition of entropy?

By the Vatican I assume you are referring to the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church came about during the time that God allowed Satan to rule over the church organizational structure in what is called the dark ages. When it took on that name it separated itself from the body of Christ, the church, and became the first denomination (down and away from the name). It did many things contrary to god’s will such as to say that the pope was God on earth and encouraged members to go through others than Christ to get to God such as the virgin Mary and the Saints, etc. It also encouraged making and bowing down to idles of Mary and others contrary to God’s will. The organization now says that it has changed, but it still has not given up many of those wrong practices. Since God broke up the Catholic Church (at the end of the time of Pergamos and the beginning of the time of Thyatira) by allowing the scriptures to be published in large quantities by providing for the introduction of the printing press, which allowed the average person to see the wrong deeds of the Catholic Church, many break offs have occurred. Although there are some exceptions the general trend is that each break off leaves some of the bad traditions that were a part of the ones that they broke off of. This has led to a gradual improvement with many of the later groups coming much closer to acting in accordance with God’s word. I recommend that each person come to God by reading the scriptures for themselves. Then they will easily be able to see if any group that they may think about joining is really doing God’s will.

The Coran (Quran) Is the Islamic holy book. Islam has several problems of inconsistency. First they consider a prophet to be a messenger of God speaking God’s words to the people and they count Jesus to be a prophet, but don’t believe all that he said. They say that some of the texts have been changed and are in error as a reason to not accept all that Jesus said, but this denies God’s ability to keep his word intact which Jesus promised when he said, Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall never pass away. If one accepts that God either can’t or won’t keep his word intact, then one cannot trust Islamic texts either since they would also probably have been changed over the more than one thousand years since they were introduced. Moreover, the Old Testament prophesied that Jesus would come and gives many details about his life and death on the cross and resurrection, etc., but neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament gives any prophesy about Muhammad coming. The Talmud is a Jewish book of law, ethics, customs or traditions, and history. Jesus warned against people following after the traditions of men and included specific references to some of the problems concerning some Jewish traditions. On the other hand he upheld the Old Testament scriptures, which are included in the Jewish Tanakh.

The solution is that God will continue and complete the making of his body members regardless of what any men believe to the contrary. He will continue to use groups and doctrines that are contrary to the truth to attract those that don’t really want to have a relationship with him on his terms while at the same time using his word to attract those who do desire to know him and be joined to him in love for him and from him. When he has completed his body this world will be ended and all of its faulty doctrines and beliefs will perish with it. Then God will create a new and much better eternal world without entropy in which he can live in his new body in which all members will know the truth and be in complete agreement with each other and with God. At that time there will be the true universal respect, not because everyone accepts everyone else’s beliefs as valid even if they are false, but because all will know the truth and be the same in belief with God. Our only part in this work of God is to make the choice for him that leads to eternal life or against him that leads to death in the long run. God’s viewpoint is, I set before you life and death, chose life, for why would you die. I agree with him. All who are grown up in Christ respect everyone’s right to chose as he will, but because we know the seriousness and importance of making the right choice we always encourage all to chose life over death.

How does your universal respect work? In your belief what would be the difference for a person who chooses to have the universal respect compared to how it is for him if he chooses to not have it? Do you believe that you can be saved in some way or just that you cease to exist when you die in this world?

On your post of July 11, 2009:

In your concept of harmony, if a large number of people desired to kill a certain person would it be better to allow them to do it to promote the overall harmony of the group or would it be better to correct them and tell them that it is wrong for them to do that even if you knew that it would cause a lot of disharmony in the group if you did so. If someone tried to convince everyone else that eating large quantities of arsenic (poison) was good for you and you saw that some people believed him and ate it and died, would it be best out of universal respect for the one spreading that belief to just accept him and do nothing or would it be best out of love for the ones that might believe him and die to correct him and tell him that he is wrong even if it causes disharmony in the group.

The true hope is not in a code, but in the one who wrote all the codes even those that go beyond the quantum level.

Outside of God in Christ people will not learn how to truly love one another as you hope because true love only comes from God through Christ. All that the world has is images that God put into the world so you could see them and come to understand that you need to come to him through Christ to learn how to love others in the way that is best for all.

Maybe you can explain what the ultimate code is in your belief and how you derive it. Where do the universal messages come from and how do you tell them from other messages.

Again maybe you can explain your concept of spherization.

Do you see the physical aim as coming from an intelligent creator or just some random happening, etc? Explain your meaning of entropy.

Where does this pure creation of love in fact in all things come from? What is its source?

On your post of July 12, 2009:

I won’t take all the time and effort to go into all of these peoples philosophies, but you do make the point well that there have been multitudes of men’s philosophies that were presumably intended to be used in some way to make man’s life better or bring him closer to perfection. Here we are in the present though and man is still the same basically evil creature that he was before all of these philosophies were introduced. Lets just look at the United States for some examples.

1. There is great outcry because 5000 American soldiers were killed in Iraq in a five year period, but at the same time how much do you hear about the fact that there are 3000 to 4000 murders in the same time period in each of some major American cities. This means that they are not much less safe in the whole country of Iraq that is supposed to be at war than in some of those American cities where there is supposed to be peace.

2. Since the 1960’s when abortion was condoned by the Supreme Court of the United States, more than 40 million babies have been killed by abortion in the United States. This is as far as I know the worst holocaust in history and it is still continuing. This is about one third of all the babies that would have been born without abortion. Now you know the real reason that there will not be enough people to take care of the baby boomers in retirement. It is because all these children that have been murdered will not grow up to help take care of their parents when they are old. I would not be surprised to see laws passed to allow for the killing of the old people also, so they won’t be such a burden on the younger generation. One error leads to another. The next step would be to say that all who are disabled and not productive members of society should be killed so as not to be a burden on everyone else. Eventually when you tune your television to a reality show instead of saying, which member of the team will be cast off the Island tonight, they will say, which member of the team will prove to be the least productive tonight and be eliminated and we do mean eliminated. Of course, any mention of anything against the government would be considered very unproductive for society and worthy of elimination. The problem is that when you count the lives of any to be unimportant in the end no one’s life will be considered important except possibly fearless leader’s. I guess you could say that there is harmony in all these people coming together to kill all those babies, but I don’t see the love there.

3. I am not sure of the exact figure, but not too long ago I saw an article that said that somewhere between one third and one half of all children in the United States are now being brought up in single parent families mostly by their mothers without adequate resources to properly bring them up. This does not bode well for the next generation either to become more harmonious loving people especially when wages and other resources are still going down for them

My point is that all of men’s philosophies have not made man any better than he was before them. The only pattern of improvement that is evident in the world is that when people come to God in Christ, God makes their lives better as evidenced in the United States from its founding to about 1960 and when they leave him he makes their lives worse as has happened there since that time. Of course, man does most of the work of making his life worse when he leaves God. God just lets him do it.

I still don’t see the evolution. The people are still the same.

What do you consider the fundamental and universal laws to be?

I can tell you exactly when the bad will disappear. It will be when God has gotten all of his body members prepared and destroys this world and all the evil in it.

view post as summary

John,

I agree with you. Christians do make God and Jesus seem like the "grim reaper" or extremely dangerous for anyone who doesn't embrace the gospel. I have a need for magic in my DNA; I need to understand how the universe really works. For as long as I can remember, I have wanted to unlock the secrets of the universe; it has to be genetic and/or written in my soul.

Paul,...

view entire post

John,

I agree with you. Christians do make God and Jesus seem like the "grim reaper" or extremely dangerous for anyone who doesn't embrace the gospel. I have a need for magic in my DNA; I need to understand how the universe really works. For as long as I can remember, I have wanted to unlock the secrets of the universe; it has to be genetic and/or written in my soul.

Paul,

It is my opinion that the reptillian brain,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_complex

feels a connection with Christianity because (1) Christianity talks about suffering (of Jesus and others) and (2) the unrestrained appetites (7 deadly sins). The reptillian brain within us trembles in fear of a judgemental/wrathful supreme being who does not tolerate disagreement.

The other night, I probed very deeply into my soul where my worst fears and anxieties were coming from. It is the American Culture war. The cultural war between JudaoChristianity and New Age/all other religions is reproduced with the Conservative/Liberal political war. In truth, I believe that when both philosophies are purified (and all of the evil and lies are burned away), they become the two halves of perfect Truth. It takes wisdom, years of experience (lifetimes?) to navigate perfect Truth.

I've worked very hard to understand who or what God is. I had to choose between the Ascended Masters (Infinite Intelligence/God) and Christianity (Chritian God) because they have very different ideas about who/what God is; the choice was forced by my reptillian brain. On the one hand, the idea of a Christian God that will watch over me is very comforting; the downside is the Christian teaching that not embracing Jesus/scriptures will land you in Hell, blocks my relationship with God. The idea that it would be 'ironic' that God would group together, for purposes of being saved from damnation, (1) those who hate God and (2) those who want to love God but don't like Christan format, is to suggest that the Christian God is not an Infinite Intelligence. With the Masters, I have so many experiences and stories of how they interact with me, my girlfriend, my family. They are so loving and centered on service to others and healing. Last night, I invited the "spirit of healing" to work through me to bring spiritual healing to my girlfriend. I examined Margot's fingers and toes. As I held my hands over her, I could almost see her internal organs. For a moment, I felt like a physician, which is partly a healing to me because at work, I accepted First Responder responsibility, something I worry about because I get so little practice at it. It was like I could see someone elses hands where mine were (one of the Masters). I know that any good Christian will call "spirit of healing" a call for Satan. It is a term I articulated to clearly specify what I was requesting; just asking for God and hoping to get healing is like rolling the dice. I chose the Ascended Masters and an Infinite Intelligence, Father-Mother God over a scary Christian God that likes the irony of letting good people with a non-Christian approach, burn in Hell.

When I probed very deeply into the nature of God (Infinite Intelligence), I discovered that the reptillian brain is the transceiver for Infinite Intelligence (GOD). The reptillian brain is not generating God, but it is adding the interactive interface with God. That interface depends upon your religion. Atheists shut off the interface. The fear of hellfire is deeply embedded in the cellular structure of the reptillian brain. I want a relationship with God, and I want to embrace perfected Christ consciousness. But I am asking the Creator/Infinite Intelligence for a format that is appropriate to my nature.

view post as summary

No matter who we would prefer to live with, good and evil both live together within society. All we can do is be aware of the fact that evil people are amongst us and will prey on the naive, vulnerable or unfortunate people that they encounter because this is what they do and it gives them pleasure. Evil people pervade all areas and levels of society, even the churches.They are excellent mimics of...

view entire post

No matter who we would prefer to live with, good and evil both live together within society. All we can do is be aware of the fact that evil people are amongst us and will prey on the naive, vulnerable or unfortunate people that they encounter because this is what they do and it gives them pleasure. Evil people pervade all areas and levels of society, even the churches.They are excellent mimics of good human behaviour making them above suspicion unless you are a chosen victim or they choose to unmask themselves.

The biblical scriptures offer some cautionary information. The story of Cain and Abel tells of the two kinds of human. One who is acceptable to God and the other who is not because his heart in insincere. Cain is a liar, driven by jealousy and a murderer. Jesus tells the parable of the weed seed amongst the good seed, that is left to grow together in the field until harvest time. (Incidentally the "lost sheep" are those good people, lost amongst the wicked, who must be found and forgiven, because they are not wicked people but have just gone down a wrong path in life)

Good people know the difference between good and evil because their conscience tells them and they beat themselves up inside when they get it wrong,i.e.when they sin or act in error and so feel guilt or remorse. Evil people have no conscience, feel invulnerable and have no guilt or remorse no matter how heinous the crime.

This is about a fundamental difference in human brain structure, function and adaptive behaviour that permits this genetic expression to be replicated within the human gene pool.It is an adaptive variation but acts like a parasitic infection or disease of the Homo sapien species.

These people are not ill themselves but perfectly adapted for their niche. Taking what they want. Using and abusing who ever they choose.Seeking power and control over others. Ensuring their own "survival" at any cost.Their minds think differently.They handle language differently.They interpret facial expressions differently.They do not experience the normal range and depth of emotions.

They can mimic religious belief and be very knowledgeable of the scriptures but have no understanding of the abstract concepts that lie below the words. The religion in question makes no difference. They are hollow people. Just a facade, with no depth. Without love all the fine words mean nothing.

Good people perceive a difference between good and evil, beautiful and ugly, worthy and worthless because their brains allow this discrimination to be made. Evil people do not make these discriminations or discriminate good from evil as it applies to their own behaviour. Although they can repeat the words and ruthlessly enforce rules of conduct on others. They can rationalise any unacceptable behaviour, lie with complete ease and do not comprehend their own hypocrisy. Evil within humanity is a spectrum of predatory personality disorders characterised by a number of distinct personality traits including lack of conscience and empathy. www.bullyonline.org is a very enlightening site.

view post as summary

Evil is often portrayed as a disembodied force at work through supernatural entities such as daemons or possessing people to make them evil. Everything scary, the fears of normal humans are all lumped together in this category of evil. The dark, the ugly, the creepy things, decay etc etc. However these are just normal fears. Fear of the unknown, fear of loosing control, fear of death etc. Not evil...

view entire post

Evil is often portrayed as a disembodied force at work through supernatural entities such as daemons or possessing people to make them evil. Everything scary, the fears of normal humans are all lumped together in this category of evil. The dark, the ugly, the creepy things, decay etc etc. However these are just normal fears. Fear of the unknown, fear of loosing control, fear of death etc. Not evil itself. Good people feel fear, evil people do not.We learn good behaviour in part through fear of the consequences of our actions. Our fears help us to be good people but can also be used by evil people to control us.

True evil is not ugly to look at or decaying or creepy. It does not reveal itself unless it chooses to do so. It deceives and beguiles us. It may be pretty, witty, eloquent, playful, enchanting, charismatic or not. It can be anything it chooses for one to see. It somehow tunes in to our personal likes and dislikes, it mirrors our attitude, words. We lower our guard and feel trust and maybe pity or admiration. We interact with evil people and do not suspect, until the depth of the deception comes to light or the betrayal is revealed.

Even when a relationship is obviously dysfunctional, good people try extremely hard to find the best in other people. They "tread carefully over eggshells" to avoid saying or doing something that will cause the other person to rage, attacking with a verbal torrent of abuse or physical force.They want to believe that at heart all people are good. They find excuses for their behaviour, they will accept lies and rationalisations rather than admit that there is something severely wrong with the other persons attitudes and behaviour. They forgive. They try to find fault in themselves to excuse the other person.To the evil person this is our weakness. They may lure victims by portraying themselves as needing help or saving. The kinder and more trusting the victim the better.

There is a big difference between harmful outcomes arising from genuine error or sin and deliberate harm.Harm may occur due to carelessness or lack of information or doing or not doing something, as seemed right at the time, but in hindsight was foolish.This human error accompanied by appropriate remorse is not evil. However when a person targets a victim and sets out to deceive, manipulate and abuse that person for financial reward or personal pleasure then that is evil.The lonely, young adults and children, the mentally or physically frail elderly, the naive, innocent or intellectually impaired and mentally ill people are all especially vulnerable as potential easy targets, although no one is immune.

All people are capable of evil under certain circumstances for example when they relinquish responsibility to a commanding authority but for some people evil is the very essence of who they are beneath the veneer of pleasant normality and it is their parasitic niche within human society.All races, religions, countries, all sectors and levels of society are affected.This is why there is so much evil done in the world. Because we do not identify it correctly but prefer to imagine evil as all of our normal human fears. It is worse than that because it moves unseen amongst us all the time and we can not imagine the depths of depravity and betrayal that it contemplates, except very occasionally when unspeakable crimes do come to light.

How can we begin to comprehend the workings of an infinite mind when we do not even correctly comprehend the minds of our fellow men and women that we interact with daily?

view post as summary

Jason,

You are not an evil lol

In fact we are all babies of Universe ,linked since the begining .The morality is evident when we understand the dynamic of evolution of our Universe .

On Earth ,there are so many moral systems and I understand your point of vue Georgina ,the fear is a driving force of the check.This kind of systems is used to check or trying to make the...

view entire post

Jason,

You are not an evil lol

In fact we are all babies of Universe ,linked since the begining .The morality is evident when we understand the dynamic of evolution of our Universe .

On Earth ,there are so many moral systems and I understand your point of vue Georgina ,the fear is a driving force of the check.This kind of systems is used to check or trying to make the comprehension between the bad and the good .

On the other side there is a question about Death ,the fear of death is logic in fact ,because if some people kwon the beauty behind ,they didn't rest on Earth lol ,thus it's a genetic logic fear .But the intelligence and the universality show us what we are not alone thus we accept this reality and try to do the best and that to improve ,harmonize ,catalize systems around us .In this logic the fear disapears by the universal education ,and its complemenatrities in complexification.

Thus the fear is still an human invention ,because in the genetic this fear disapear by evolution and intelligence .

The human interpretations are so differents than our universal foundations .

So many people don't understand why we are on Earth ,If I must define the bad ,the evil ,....it's an illusion without sense ,the bad is a effect of our young evolution and our first errors on Earth but all errors can be solved .

The sufferings ,the fears ,the bads ,are of course on Earth but when we understand the evolution ,we know this short chaotic time .Furthermore on the line time and Space line the bad will disapear ,it's like that.

It's the rule of the humanity with the intelligence ,improve .

Sometimes I have difficulties to encircle our Earth system about education ,the sciences are so important ,I see so many people who go to under sciences ,human sciences ,marketing ,economy ,pub ,management and that and ...That has no sense ,the study of sciences permits to see the whole and thus catalyzes the creativity in an universal point of vue .

It's a important problem of our Earth ,the education ,when the bases are given at schools ,the free thoughts ,universal thoughts ,that permits an optimized sociability and thus in correlation with our universalities in evolution .

The education ,the prosperity ,the creativity ,the harmony,the improvement,the rationality ,the universality,the evolution,the big polarizations and theirs mass ,the complexification towards ultim physical harmony .This future ,all was before ,is now and all will be too .

The ultim finished sphere for me ,the ultim fusion of all ,the end of the difference between math and phys universe ,between walls .The eternity in somes words in fact .When we understand this ultim aim ,we know why we are on Earth ,we are builders ,catalizers ,creators of the harmony .The man is a splendid creation , this intelligence ,this understanding of love in fact has been created for that ,to help ,to harmonize the creations around him .We are an important piece of the puzzle like all things ,our capacity ,this intelligence is a kind of builders of the best interactions between physical systems.This logic implies a hope ,the accelerations ,the exponentials .....

Sincerely

Steve

view post as summary

Dear Paul ,here is my answer in late .

I agree with you ,the math must be univeral and real .It's the problem with some imaginaries extrapolations and thus some chaotics systems .I take the reletavity to make some differences .It's essential .The abstraction is indeed a shield of the truth .The reality is so important,it shows us the fantastic equation of love .There the differences...

view entire post

Dear Paul ,here is my answer in late .

I agree with you ,the math must be univeral and real .It's the problem with some imaginaries extrapolations and thus some chaotics systems .I take the reletavity to make some differences .It's essential .The abstraction is indeed a shield of the truth .The reality is so important,it shows us the fantastic equation of love .There the differences between complex ,hypercomplex ,imaginaries ...and reals tools are too so essentials.

When a model is in harmony with the foundamentals ,we see these applications and its realities everywhere in all centers of interest .

Whe a model is not real ,it is short ,chaotic and imaginary ...in correation with human inventions ,thus different than our universal equation ,the love and its physical evolution.

The sphere is the perfect balance between all things ,the spherization evolution shows us the big mathematician and his aim of ultim love between created mass which evolves towards the perfection .All must be studied to encircle our creator ,this father ,this entity ,this whole ,the entropy,this god .The ubiquity of informations If I can say and the plan of love .

Dear Paul ,if you see around you ,you shall see this spherizaion ,the spheres ,the spheroids ,the circles ,...everywhere .Our fruits ,our eggs ,glands ,hemispheres ,planets ,stars ,moons,eyes,quantum spheres ,a drop of water ,the waves on the water ,...let's take our big revolutions ,the wheels ,the pullies ,rotors..the rotations always ,always in correlation with the universal future sphere.All studies focus on spherization shall give the best results .

The spheres and spherization aren't abstracts ,it's real ,the truth .The spheres aren't a human invention but a god equation .

The fourth dimension must be interpreted with pragamatism and universality too ,the time is a constant of evolution ,this improvement of all things ,and the space has 3 dimensions where the mass and the motions are essential and all that is implied by the rotations of quanum spheres and cosmological spheres .The mass increases ,the physical universe increases and its complexification of harmony is obvious.

The Earth needs reality and needs to know the truth ,we are on a fantastic boat towards harmony .We are not here to suffer but to create .I say that beause I understand the suffering ,I have suffered a lot .It permits me to become more strong but the suffering is a effect of the young evolution .

When you understand this improvement of love by complexification,you understand the fantastic future and its edens .The rule of intelligence is to catalyze the love and catalyzes systems in foundamental rationality.

You know Paul ,I am horticulteur and botanist .The reality is that too and we see too the complementarity and the evolution .I am going to explain you .In my small garden I have many plants and flowers ,125 m² ,very small but I have more than 1000 plants .I compost and all is plant in my compost more some personal secrets .The fact to plant and work with the nature shows us the evolution of complexification .Because I can increase the mass and improve that .Let's take one of my favorite flower ,fuchsias it's so beautiful ,this plant when you mix them ,create new species so beautiful ,thus the man catalyzes systems towards perfection and harmony .It's the same with all .

I agree with you whe you say what the reality is god because we see everywhere his aim ,and he wants some things of us ,he has a plan .The sphere and its spheres .The beauty is everywhere ,only the man don't see that in globality of course.We are here to help God to make the sphere in a total love between created mass.The ubiquity of informations always and the plan.

I have always searched you know Paul why we are on Earth ,that began when I was 16 years old ,34 now .I read a little of all ,I searched to understand why these sufferings and those stupidities on Earth .I understand now .Sometimes I ask me some questions ,and I thank god to understand better the universe and the ultim aim .When I have had the eureka several years ago I was so excited ,my first words were Oh all goes to the spherization .All spherisizes themselves .It was an aswer of many things for me ,a link between all and I know now why I am on Earth .I am like all humans a builder of the love ,of the harmony ,of the plan ,of the spherization .

Dear Paul ,yes humans have made many errors but the hope is more strong ,we can still change things before the add of chaotics exponentials .

All is possible by united and adapted scinces for our fellow man and of course some systems must disappear .It's time to create an universal commission on Earth with foundamenatls ...any differences ,any frontiers ,any monney ,any weapons ....but it's difficult because we have our past .

The apocalyps is an information to fight the chaos and the probability of add of sufferings .If the fear is created ,some limited person can indeed see above them and thus choose the good way .The actual problem is the power and the money ,if the evil is one thing ,it's that the monney ,the vanity and the power of checking .

I agree with you ,I think personnaly what the next ten years are the most important years of the humanity and indeed the next 100 years are a critic phase ,but God won't destroy the earth ,never .This earth evolves and will shine one day ,soon .Our rule is to stop the suffering and the most quickly will be the best .For that we must change many things at the base of the global checking .

I read scriptures ,the love is the resume and interpretations are human .

The evolution is not a destroying force ,only human stupidities destroy .

The message of Jesus is simple ,act like him .and That we can see this universal love in many people with or without religions ,in all cultures ,religions ,coutries ,towns.

I return to the human Instinct and its past ,I understand your point of vue about bad ,it exists in this case indeed by an add of bad educations .The first errors imply errors and the add implies the exponentials and the possible chaotic effects .

We can say thus many systems are the result of a bad governance and bad comportments ,these human inventions must disappear .It's like that and anything will change that .It's the evolution of improvement .

Many people think that they are good christians ,they pray for wealth or for a personnal satisfaction ,they go to church but behind they don't respect the universal truth of love .

God is in all thing and informs us what he is there and he has a plan for us ,and must respect that .To give without waiting a return ,love all always and always because all is the same .It's the truth ,we are not alone and we must act like the christ ,it's in the acts what we see the truth .

The christianity is so misunderstood .I could say what I saw in my life real christian in all religions or countries ,The real message is there ,the love is the love and any systems can say what he has the best system because the love is the love .The tolerance is a sister of the love .To pray is a personal way and a whole way in the same time ,where arrives the compassion .

This universality is not a play and the respect of the foundamental love is primordial .

His creation ,this sphere in building is a proof of his love and he attends a lot of humans and intelligences in the Universe .The life is universal ,everywhere in our galaxy and in our Universe .If the message of Jesus which is a pure love message of sociability is universal ,it appears in all systems by the same reality ,the love .What I try to say is what the informations of love is universal and if it is on a others planets ,thus the picture is virtual like the human inventions but the love information was is and will be in a improvement building ,the sphere and its spheres .

The ubiquity of informations is incredible and shows us this immensity and its physical limits .It's important because it's the only road ,the only way to inform us .

About the entropy ,it's simple ,it exists a paradox between the walls ,the entropy is in all things behind the walls and will be the maximum in the finished sphere and its maximum mass ,the space in mass nthe ultim love and connectibility .

The entropy is complex dera Paul ,all is the same and we have our limits in this physical sphere in optimization.

I agree with you about the final unification ,this sphere will be a pure light of love .

It's there it's important to encircle the wall and the evolution plan in the physical universe ,the informations and its ubiquity .

The entropy is paradoxal ,we are a fractal of this entropy ,we was behind and we are here .The problem is not to know this entropy but what we are a part of that ,behind or in the physical world ,the entropy is all ,it's god ,it's the finished universal sphere and all the mass .The notion of eternity takes all its sense there at the unification ,when we encircle that ,it's simple act in love ,we are not alone .

We must accept this reality ,God has a plan .

The informations have an important rule ,they shall exist to improve always and say the truth .

I think about religions what books ,human books are different than a pure contemplation of creations around us ,the best words are without words .

In the same I agree on the fact what it's necessary to have advices ,that permits to decrease the chaos .

I respect in fact all faiths if the real love is the base .I don’t understand this Earth , the rule of faith people is to harmonize .The tolerance is forgotten and we see the bad in first but for exemple ,it exists in majority the respect and the tolerance ,but we see first the minority ,andthat everywhere .If the love is not the foundamental ,these persons in all cultures ,countries ,religions ,philosophies shall imply always chaotic systems .If the weapons and the monney are in this case too inserted ….the problems appear .The faith don’t accept the differences ,the weapons ,the powers ,the non rational things with this love in the foundamenatl coded in all things .

The informations say us ,it’s time to act in a total universalism .Too much sufferings ,furthermore these sufferings hadn’t any places on Earth ,the spherization evolution ,is a building of love and all creations must be respected .

The improvement is foundamental,the scriptures ,what I had read ,give for all readers of faith ,some roads to improve the relation between all things ,all is there ,you find in fact the truth in all things ,the contemplations of the creations are a divin road .

I return to the real uniersal faith ,the heart of man and the fact to see above before acting .

I understand the responsability of education and the fear and that for not do a chaotic comportment implying sufferings .The rule of a father of peace and of love is to help to find the truth .

I agree ,the plan will continue and will improve ,will optimize and will sphrisize towards this ultim light of connectibility of creations ,the mass .

The love informations ,and the foundamentals shall take the board and shall unify the humans and all creations .The bad will disappear ,this short chaotic moment is dedicated to disapear in Times Space evolution .

The humans shall be unified and united in the light like all things .These foundamenatl improvements shall help to live in tolerance en respect between faith people ,a faith person understands a faith people even with a regard .

We are all linked since the begining of the big polarization ,it exists any differences ,only the human nature invents the differences which imply chaos and sufferings .

A real person of faith understand a real person of faith because he understands his rule on Earth like catalyzer of love .

The Coran ,the talmud ,the bouddhism ,the bibble ….give a road to this universality and the fact to have a creator .

The foundamental problem comes by the minority where the power ,the monney and the unconsciencousness are a driving chaotic force .

These unconscious are the main cause of our Actual Earth in all cultures ,religions ,countries ,philosophies .

The humans in majority want peace and properity ,but the bad minority everywhere utilizes some chaotic tools for the checking and the fear .Thus all weapons must disapear .

The question of the humanity is when this unification will appear between faithpeople .

If a minority don’t permit that ,thus it’s time to change some optics .Because the hour is serious .

We see only with our heart ,all is said with theses words I think about the love and the tolerance .Respect that ,it’s respect the choice of the Universe .

The prophecy is simple ,this Earth will be ,she will ray for ever .

The life and death is just a part of the story ….

The codes are everywhere .

Dear Paul ,

I have all my life acted in love ,my aim is to help ,it’s my only reason of life.

I have any questions about the fact if I will be saved ,I know where I am and why I am borned ,I respect all creations .

You ask me if I speak with him ,do you think dear Paul what it’s my theory ,in fact it’s the theory of all .I am just a messager if I can say .I haven’t any fear for the death ,that will be a big moment for me ,I am persuaded what you understand my words .The sirituality is all for me ,sometimes I am completaly behind the dreams ….I imagine the Universe in building ,and the systems in improvement so many creations ,the lifes the intelligences ,billions billions of systems .There is an aim for all these systems dear Paul .

I return about the informations of love like Jesus ,it’s foundamenatl even in the most far planets with lifes .All has an ultim aim .

The actual reality is simple ,we must act quickly .Some priorities must be adapted speedly.

For the well of the humanity and its future .

Can we still accept these chaotics effets implied by the unconsciencousness ,or ….

You say ,

« Outside of God in Christ people will not learn how to truly love one another as you hope because true love only comes from God through Christ. »

The love message is the love message and all my life is focused on this only reality which is the love ,I don’t need to be in a specific conditions to undrestand the message of the Christ .

I have understood since a long time .

The love message is to love his fellow man ,a fellow man can have a different culture ,a different religion ,a different color ,a different philosophies ,that will be always my fellow man ,all is there .

The disharmony is caused by the opposite of the love .And the fact is what these effects are near the exponentials thus ??? what is the best solution ,insert bad parameters or good and universal parameters .

The codes are in all quantum main sphere ,a physical becoming and an universality in improvement and the love .

A real love person acts in love and that’s all .

You know Paul ,I have searched many years in all centers of interest ,the spherization theory ,these spheres and the sphere is an answer for many things and the love message has its place .

I have understood many things when I have had the eureka if I can say .

The spherization it’s the plan in fact ,and we are in this plan .God ,this entity ,this ubiquity of informations created us and we must respect its plan .He has given us a physical universe in improvement and he needs us to accomplish this sphere ,the intelligence ,it’s that .

I agree Dear Paul ,it’s sad and the compassion essential.

You ask me

I still don’t see the evolution. The people are still the same.

Yes I agree on Earth ,we add chaotic systems ,but the Earth is one planet ,all evolves but not the effects by humans ,all is there .

What do you consider the fundamental and universal laws to be?

The foundamenatls are simple ,the complexity returns to the simplicity .

It s difficult to turn off a big fire with one water drop ,nevertheless a whole of drops makes Ocean .

The humanity is like a rainbow dear Paul ,a diversity of colors united in the light .

.

Do you see the physical aim as coming from an intelligent creator or just some random happening, etc? Explain your meaning of entropy.

There is a reason to all !

I can tell you exactly when the bad will disappear. It will be when God has gotten all of his body members prepared and destroys this world and all the evil in it.

With my extrapolations ,I have some ideas ,the numbers of weapons ,the numbers of monney ,the numbers of…..it depends .One thing is sure ,one day all will be better .

The question is what will do quickly the global commission before the chaos .

Sincerely

Paul ,

It’s a pleasure to discuss with you .

Take care

Steve

view post as summary

I've been stumped for a while concerning the laws of physics. I decided to try a different approach. Since I'm very good at philosophy, I had the idea of converting the laws of physics into philosophy, and then look the philosophical version of a hyperdrive. For example, General Relativity, as a philosophical truth, suggests that all situations and circumstances can look different, relative to...

view entire post

I've been stumped for a while concerning the laws of physics. I decided to try a different approach. Since I'm very good at philosophy, I had the idea of converting the laws of physics into philosophy, and then look the philosophical version of a hyperdrive. For example, General Relativity, as a philosophical truth, suggests that all situations and circumstances can look different, relative to how you look at it (your religious or philosophical frame of reference). In Quantum Mechanics, any number of possible scenarios might be true, until you actually check it and find out (e.g. how rumors get started and evolve). It is by asking (taking a measurement) that we determine the truth. For a quantum system of many possible states, in a way, it's like watching an argument break out between two people. Maybe person A is right (but not always), or B is right, or they both are argumentative, or there is stress that causes them to argue, or etc... Quantum entangle might be like making a promise to someone; you have to honor what you said you would do, even if that person is in a different part of the world.

There are other examples of how subjects in physics have similar philisophical metaphors that are similar in nature. Human interaction, in a way, is like particle interaction in a gas; there can be exchanges of momentum/energy/conversation/emtional feelings. Have you ever handed off your bad mood by yelling at someone else? Now they have your bad mood. I'm not saying it's right to do that; I'm trying to represent physics topics with metaphors that are similar.

Last night, it struck me that the laws of physics don't seem to have any implementation; they are starting to appear as absolutes. The word of God is considered an absolute, as well. Is that an accident? A symmetry? A correct metaphor? The laws of physics may well be absolute. Mathematatical relationships are certainly absolute; as they will tell you (if correctly applied) how that system will behave to the degree that the mathematical relationship is correctly applied. Many religious people believe that the word of God is absolute; particularly if one is wise enough to understand the wisdom.

Just as Newtons laws were replaced by GR, so there are larger realities. It is interesting that Jesus Christ is depicted as the perfect (and last) sacrifice last, since Leviticus (Old Testament) called for sacrifices. In the religion I embrace, sacrifice (of one's time or finances) is still requested. Sacrifice has an important role (as in absolute) in the realm of conscious intelligent lifeforms (people).

But if the laws of physics are absolutes, would an exception or a more generalized expression, always be mathematical in nature (when describing the physical universe)? After all, even the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (virtual particles) suggests that energy-time differences of less than h-bar (6.6x10-34J-s) are difficult/impossible to discern clearly. Can quantity and symmetry always be distinguished with absolute certainty? The very fact that virtual particles exchange of photons has to be used to explain electromagnetism is a sign that something more absolute is at work.

Until whatever gods may be, drop something else, some other phenomena, into the cosmic aquarium of the universe, then I can only look upon our universe as a tiny and insignificant creature in a vastness that is beyond my understanding.

view post as summary

Jason,

I looked it up. Niels Bohr.

You make the statement as though a deity were a black box. Which reminds me of the old guy joke. If you handed him a black box and told him it would cure all evil and strife, what would a real guy do; Give it to the Pop