Search FQXi


If you are aware of an interesting new academic paper (that has been published in a peer-reviewed journal or has appeared on the arXiv), a conference talk (at an official professional scientific meeting), an external blog post (by a professional scientist) or a news item (in the mainstream news media), which you think might make an interesting topic for an FQXi blog post, then please contact us at forums@fqxi.org with a link to the original source and a sentence about why you think that the work is worthy of discussion. Please note that we receive many such suggestions and while we endeavour to respond to them, we may not be able to reply to all suggestions.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Forum Home
Introduction
Terms of Use

Order posts by:
 chronological order
 most recent first

Posts by the blogger are highlighted in orange; posts by FQXi Members are highlighted in blue.

By using the FQXi Forum, you acknowledge reading and agree to abide by the Terms of Use

 RSS feed | RSS help
RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

songjoong df: on 12/27/17 at 6:54am UTC, wrote cara menjadi reseller qnc jelly gamat Cara Menjadi Agen Qnc Jelly Gamat ...

amrit: on 7/5/09 at 11:35am UTC, wrote Recent research in neurology shows that our liner experiencing of events in...

amrit: on 6/11/09 at 8:14am UTC, wrote Linear time past-present-future is in the mind. Its physical basis is in...

Steve Dufourny: on 3/23/09 at 9:37am UTC, wrote Hi all , Dear John , thanks for your post . I d like say one thing...

Ryan Westafer: on 3/23/09 at 4:38am UTC, wrote Myke, I'm also working with the curvature / generalized angular momenta...

Alanna: on 3/19/09 at 13:56pm UTC, wrote I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I...

John Merryman: on 3/8/09 at 23:48pm UTC, wrote Steve, While overall knowledge is a cumulatively expanding sphere of...

Steve Dufourny: on 3/8/09 at 22:07pm UTC, wrote Hi dear all, Time is a constant in the physical universe and its spheric...


RECENT FORUM POSTS

Georgina Woodward: "Robert, thank you for explaining very clearly. "Of course, as is..." in Schrödinger’s Zombie:...

jaime allen: "There are many topics like these, and all of them are helping me to become..." in Equivalence Principle...

Robert McEachern: "Georgina, It may help you come-to-terms with the fact that a "huge..." in Schrödinger’s Zombie:...

Steve Dufourny: "Yes,I agree with Eckard,there it's totally to be frank crazzy and..." in First Things First: The...

Eckard Blumschein: ""Please Joe, stop to post Always the same". Perhaps you have almost nothing..." in First Things First: The...

Sydney Grimm: "Lorraine, You want to the bottom? ;-) In physics “unification” –..." in Measuring Free Will: Ian...

Lorraine Ford: "Sydney, Re climate change: I’m more on the side of the QBism model, but..." in Measuring Free Will: Ian...

anna john: "It's a very good informative section. I appreciate the intelligence and..." in Gravity's Residue


RECENT ARTICLES
click titles to read articles

First Things First: The Physics of Causality
Why do we remember the past and not the future? Untangling the connections between cause and effect, choice, and entropy.

Can Time Be Saved From Physics?
Philosophers, physicists and neuroscientists discuss how our sense of time’s flow might arise through our interactions with external stimuli—despite suggestions from Einstein's relativity that our perception of the passage of time is an illusion.

Thermo-Demonics
A devilish new framework of thermodynamics that focuses on how we observe information could help illuminate our understanding of probability and rewrite quantum theory.

Gravity's Residue
An unusual approach to unifying the laws of physics could solve Hawking's black-hole information paradox—and its predicted gravitational "memory effect" could be picked up by LIGO.

Could Mind Forge the Universe?
Objective reality, and the laws of physics themselves, emerge from our observations, according to a new framework that turns what we think of as fundamental on its head.


FQXi BLOGS
September 15, 2019

CATEGORY: Blog [back]
TOPIC: Where Does the Time Go? [refresh]
Bookmark and Share
Login or create account to post reply or comment.

Blogger Grace Stemp-Morlock wrote on Mar. 4, 2009 @ 22:34 GMT
While we’re waiting for the results of the Nature of Time essay contest, I thought I’d tell you about my own efforts to get a better grip on the slippery sands of time, by chatting to Dan Falk, a science journalist based in Toronto, who has recently published a book called “In Search of Time.”

Falk’s book examines time from our earliest prehistoric bone carvings all the way up to...

view entire post


Bookmark and Share
this post has been edited by the forum administrator

report post as inappropriate


Georgina Parry wrote on Mar. 4, 2009 @ 23:40 GMT
I find it hard to understand why sensible scientists are still contemplating time travel. The very existence of the time travel paradoxes shows that the space-time model is incorrect or rather in need of modification.

There already is a really simple and, to my mind, satisfying explanation of how time arises.

If subjective time is to be considered a delusion, then the whole of the reality that we inhabit is also a delusion. That subjective reality is the reality in which science is conducted and is the reality that most people would call real. Rather than denigrate the whole reality of experience with such a negative term (delusion), it should merely be recognised for what it is. It is the inevitable consequence of the interface with the objective material reality, across the Prime reality interface.

Emotion language with negative connotation should not in my opinion be used in regard to a phenomenon, merely because it results in part from an interface between biology and physics. Interdisciplinary science will become of far greater importance as the overlap between the individual sciences is recognised.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Mar. 5, 2009 @ 02:56 GMT
Time travel, worm holes, warp drives and so forth involve certain solutions to the Einstein field equations which violate the weak energy condition. The energy associated with the curvature of space can be negative with no lower bound. This means quantum mechanically that the fields which are the source of the curvature have no minimal energy quantum state, and can then decay endlessly down a ladder of states emitting lots of radiation. So this probably puts some limits on these ideas.

The importance has less to do with any real time traveling, but more to get a firm grip on the structure of quantum fields in curved spacetime and ultimately quantum gravity.

Lawrence B. Crowell

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Georgina Parry wrote on Mar. 5, 2009 @ 06:12 GMT
Lawrence,

perhaps rather than getting a firm grip, the grip has been lost.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Mar. 5, 2009 @ 14:01 GMT
You remind me of some naysayer telling the Wright brothers, "It'll never get off the ground."

L. C.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


John Merryman wrote on Mar. 5, 2009 @ 17:36 GMT
Lawrence,Georgina,

"This means quantum mechanically that the fields which are the source of the curvature have no minimal energy quantum state, and can then decay endlessly down a ladder of states emitting lots of radiation. So this probably puts some limits on these ideas.

The importance has less to do with any real time traveling, but more to get a firm grip on the structure of quantum fields in curved spacetime and ultimately quantum gravity."

"perhaps rather than getting a firm grip, the grip has been lost."

I couldn't help thinking you are both saying the same thing, that reality isn't hard and fast, but that it is inherently frayed around the edges, that what we think of as reality is emergent and in trying to peel away the layers, we lose the basic conceptual premises as well.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Mar. 5, 2009 @ 19:20 GMT
This points to how quantum mechanical basis for spacetime configurations obeys boundedness conditions. The eigen-spectrum is bounded below, which is what is expected of any well behaved quantum system. The work by Ford and Roman have provided good arguments for a correlation between no time travel and well behaved quantum physics with gravity. The matter is not of course finished, but the work so far is strongly suggestive.

Lawrence B. Crowell

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Anonymous wrote on Mar. 5, 2009 @ 21:01 GMT
John,

blessed are the peacemakers. Your holistic insight gives you great credit in my estimation.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Anonymous wrote on Mar. 5, 2009 @ 21:02 GMT
from Georgina Parry.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


John Merryman wrote on Mar. 6, 2009 @ 01:14 GMT
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026764.100-why-natur
e-is-not-the-sum-of-its-parts.html

http://www.newscientist.co
m/article/dn16095-its-confirmed-matter-is-merely-vacuum-fluc
tuations.html

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Georgina Parry wrote on Mar. 6, 2009 @ 04:45 GMT
Thank you for those links.

Not only may it be impossible to predict what emerges but we are limited by the information we receive across the Prime reality Interface. If no information crosses from some part of objective reality then it will not form a part of our subjective reality, models or prediction.

It is once again perhaps jounalistic sensationalism to say that all matter is just vacuum fluctuation. Since the dimensions in which we live are actually 4 spatio-energetic dimensions, it really depends on how the idea is expressed. A change in energy is also a change in position in space. Macroscopic bodies are made of particles.Particles change position in space. This can be expressed in terms of energy chganges.

The macroscopic body can then either be described in terms of position in space determined by fluctuating positions of particles or energy fluctuations of individual particles.One description just sounds more exiting than the other but they are essentially the same thing expressed in two different ways.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Georgina Parry wrote on Mar. 6, 2009 @ 05:21 GMT
This example also clearly shows how description given depends upon the model used and which aspect of a subject or phenomenon is highlighted by that model.

I should perhaps say, for those that have not read any of my previous posts...

According to the Prime quaternion model, sub atomic particles are able to pop into and out of 3D vector space by moving directly along the 4th dimension. This movement is equivalent to a change in potential energy. Movement afore is a loss of potential energy. Movement aft is a gain in potential energy.

This movement, as well as movement through 3D vector space (kinetic energy) and spin (which is oscillation along the 4th dimension according to the model) will account for "vacuum fluctuations".

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Myke wrote on Mar. 6, 2009 @ 05:35 GMT
I don't have a problem with time travel. Going back in time we become observers of a static history that we bring into action by our motion through time. However, going forward to the future matters: our 'real' presence can contribute to its events. The past-future time asymmetry is obvious.

Also, curvature (as anti-information content) is the key that leads to everything else; that is, the quantum fields that we interpret substantively...

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Georgina Parry wrote on Mar. 6, 2009 @ 07:01 GMT
The past can not have a material existence because this means that every fraction of a second matter is replicating so that it can exist in past and present. Where are the subatomic particles coming from for the replication smeared through out time?

The same problem arises with the multiverse idea. Where does all the matter come from in all of the variations of reality, if the matter of the universe must be replicated numerous times every fraction of a second or whenever alternative possibilities arise?

The historical past is merely due to the way in which the mind works, memories are formed and subjective reality is formed. Relativity occurs because a subjective reality is formed from electromagnetic radiation that has travelled across the Prime Reality Interface. This electromagnetic radiation is just an image of objective reality, not objective reality itself. The image can be observed at different times by different observers but that does not mean that the thing that is seen is still in that place, form or even still exists.



I must also say, while I am here, that I did enjoy Julian Barbour's essay. It was very interesting, educational and well written. It is very interesting to discover how different people interpret things. I can see that there has been a lot of careful thought about the subject which shines throughout the essay.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


John Merryman wrote on Mar. 6, 2009 @ 10:58 GMT
Georgina,

I agree with you about time travel, that the multiplication of energy required doesn't fulfill Occam's Razor, but I still think your four dimensions are emergent model, not fundamental basis.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Anonymous wrote on Mar. 6, 2009 @ 11:55 GMT
I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

Sarah

http://www.craigslistdecoded.info

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


amrit wrote on Mar. 6, 2009 @ 19:33 GMT
Time does not go anywhere as universe is timeless (atemporal).

attachments: 2_ETERNITY_IS_NOW_Sorli_2009.pdf

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Georgina Parry wrote on Mar. 6, 2009 @ 19:37 GMT
John,

and I agree with you on that. I could describe a rose flower with as much biological accuracy and detail as possible, whilst also trying to express an emotional connection to its beauty and transitory nature. However good that description is made it will never actually be a rose flower.

The same is true of any scientific model. However good it is at explaining physical phenomena and observations made within the subjective reality as well being self consistent, fitting with other scientific models and answering the fundamental questions, it is still only a model not objective reality itself.

No description and no model can be. They are created by the mind. The question is, if we must have a model to comprehend how the universe functions at all scales, which model, whilst retaining logic and being self consistent, can explain the most.

The Prime quaternion model not only works at a scientific level but on other levels too. It encompasses the constant flow and becoming of the universe and recognition that ultimately everything is a part of the One, as explained by Buddhism and Taoism. It also shows that there is ultimately a Creator of the universe (Quaternion Megauniverse) that is eternal, existing without time from which all matter, structure, forces and subjective time arise.

I therefore,personally, find this model far more satisfying than a model that says the whole universe sprang from a singularity because given infinite time anything can happen and probably does.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Georgina Parry wrote on Mar. 6, 2009 @ 20:02 GMT
...I think I should have said infinite probability rather than infinite time above, because time only comes into existence when the universe arises in that model

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Georgina Parry wrote on Mar. 7, 2009 @ 23:35 GMT
How many fundamental questions must a model be able to answer before it is worthy of serious consideration? If all of the fundamental questions are answered, on what grounds other than correspondence with other science, self consistency and logic can a model be judged if it is a model of objective reality, which is by definition unknowable and inaccessible to the scientific method?

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Jason Wolfe/wulphstein@gmail.com wrote on Mar. 8, 2009 @ 01:14 GMT
I'm wondering if I can draw a parallel here. When Stephen Hawkings talks about information content on the surface of a black hole event horizon, he says that information is conserved. When black holes gobble up stars and dust, the black hole gets larger and the information content increases.

Now, let's take our physical universe. There was a Big Bang, long ago. The four dimensional volume of the universe is expanding. History and memory acumulates; the layers of rock in a canyon tell us information about the past. The number of quantum interactions that have occured accumulate with time. As time marches forward, doesn't it seem as if information is created in time?

Could information content (what Hawkins talks about) be a function of time? Or am I making false analogies?

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Myke wrote on Mar. 8, 2009 @ 03:17 GMT
Hi Jason, please read my essay on time. There you will find just that concept. Curvature is anti-information...

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Mar. 8, 2009 @ 04:21 GMT
The total information of the universe, or number of quantum bits probably remains constant. This is the whole idea of the quantum error correction code. What does change on a coarse grained scale is tha apparent decoherence of quantum bits. The joint information between two bits in an entanglement can have negative entropy, but if there is a decoherence which hides the entanglement in a reservoir of states, or behind an event horizon, this negative entropy is hidden. This then gives the appearance of there being more information in the universe. Conversely this process can give the appearance of the loss of information.

Lawrence B. Crowell

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Jason Wolfe/wulphstein@gmail.com wrote on Mar. 8, 2009 @ 06:06 GMT
Mike,

I'll look for it.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Jason Wolfe/wulphstein@gmail.com wrote on Mar. 8, 2009 @ 06:08 GMT
Lawrence,

I'm sure I don't understand the definition of information.

It seems like, at work, there is just more and more information to remember, more siutations going on that i have to take into account. That was when I thought of this idea that information grows in time. But I'm sure that's subjective on my part.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Mar. 8, 2009 @ 12:06 GMT
For a simple two-state systme the state vector is

|Y) = |0)cos(@) + i|1)e^{i phi}sin(@)

for the angle @ the relative phase between the two states on the argand plane and the angle phi an arbitrary phase between the two states. The two information states are given by the projectors P_0 and P_1 which act on the state to tive

P_0|Y) = |0)cos(@)

P_1|Y) = i|1)e^{i phi}sin(@)

The projectors map out the two quantum bits |0) and |1).

The density matrix |Y)(Y| will contain off diagonal term |0)(1| and |1)(0| which contain the elements e^{iphi}cos(@)sin(@) and are associated with a joint entropy that can be negative. In a decoherence, such as what happens in a measurment these off diagonal terms are removed. The entanglement phase of the system is buried away or lost to the environment. Thie means the information associated with the system appears more "classical-like." There is then the appearance of more information on the coarse grained perspective.

Lawrence B. Crowell

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Steve Dufourny wrote on Mar. 8, 2009 @ 22:07 GMT
Hi dear all,

Time is a constant in the physical universe and its spheric building.

Personnaly,the travel in time is impossible ,past is the past ,nevertheless some instants foto to see our past is possible ,it's different .For the future ,it's always the spherization logic of building .That's why we are catalysts ,builders ,a application of my spherization Theory is the...

view entire post


Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


John Merryman wrote on Mar. 8, 2009 @ 23:48 GMT
Steve,

While overall knowledge is a cumulatively expanding sphere of interlocking insight, the individual's ability to process it is still serially proscribed. So in order to effectively interact with other individuals, you need to edit your insights as forthrightly as possible, or they will do it automatically and specific points you may consider of primary importance get overlooked.

That said, you do manage to draw a specific insight from an extremely diverse perspective. Keep it up, but remember; Information is knowledge. Wisdom is editing.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Alanna wrote on Mar. 19, 2009 @ 13:56 GMT
I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

Alanna

http://www.craigslistsimplified.info

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Ryan Westafer wrote on Mar. 23, 2009 @ 04:38 GMT
Myke,

I'm also working with the curvature / generalized angular momenta idea. Could you briefly explain why you identify "anti-information" with "curvature?" I've been treating curvature as information simply because it corresponds to energy/anisotropy; such nonuniformity provides the potential to do work; to communicate. Communication increases entropy as information is spread and the system becomes homogeneous.

With entropy or information content considered to be a quantification of states, we expect entropy increase or increase of micro-states when we follow processes along the "time direction." i.e. single big inhomogeneities lead to multiple smaller ones. The energy or information is "communicated."

Back on topic, I think it's convenient to work with particle-like states for information storage, rather than wave/light-like states which indicate communication. However, under John G. Cramer's Transactional Interpretation (TI) or the holographic principle, etc., the two are equivalent. It seems we are free to choose.

I suppose it's a matter of perspective where we assign the information. In conserved systems, and according to the TI, we know every quantum of information is really one of a pair or higher multiplicity of the state. (e.g. for every infalling quantum of radiation, an event horizon gives rise to the quantum's anti-"particle." - Hawking radiation)

So whether it is the curled state of energy (position/rest-mass/angular-momentum) that I consider informative, or the unfurled quantum (linear-momentum/photon) you consider "information," our viewpoints are symmetric. (assuming the phenomena correspond, "information" vs. "anti-information" are 100% mutual/redundant.) There is no unique information without broken symmetry, so we might say there is no meaningful observation without limited perspective. This is why I struggle a bit with what seems like a "trivial theory of everything." This notion of perfect conservation of energy is essentially the underpinning of supersymmetry, and it reminds me of Feynman's trivial quip, "F=0."

I aim to read your essay soon; we share at least one common viewpoint, even if we take dual perspectives. It should be interesting to see the intersection.

-Ryan

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Steve Dufourny wrote on Mar. 23, 2009 @ 09:37 GMT
Hi all ,

Dear John ,

thanks for your post .

I d like say one thing ,sorry for the last post ,I d like insist on a global point of vue about spherization ,that's why I have explained that about Malaria .

The complementarity and the iteractions are so fascinating to improve our systems in correlation with foundamental laws.

Dear Ryan ,

It's interesting what you say about information and curvatures .Could you tell me more about that ,please .

Kinds Regards

Steve

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


amrit wrote on Jun. 11, 2009 @ 08:14 GMT
Linear time past-present-future is in the mind. Its physical basis is in the neuronal activity of the brain. Time is a glasses through we experience motion in space that itself is timeless. Clocks run in timeless space. Motion has duration because we experience it through the “glasses of time”. With time all is fine, just we have do not understand fully that time does not exists as a physical reality. Einstein was aware of that, Mach too, Gödel and some other peak scientist. I’m deeply impressed that many of physicists here understand the subject. Once this vision will enter books of physics the whole humanity will transformed. The whole humanity will wake up into timeless universe that we humans experience as present moment. This present moment is always the same. This present moment is eternity in which we exist. Hard to understand, harder to accept, but it is so. ETERNITY IS NOW. This insight will burn religious believes, national identification, racial tensions, this insight is he base for planetary civilization, for peace and prosperity on this planet.

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


amrit wrote on Jul. 5, 2009 @ 11:35 GMT
Recent research in neurology shows that our liner experiencing of events in the perspective of "past-present-future" has its basis in neuronal activity of the brain.

Consequences of that fact are deep. Einstein vision of time as human invention is becoming relevant.

attachments: Neurophysiology_of_Time.pdf

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


songjoong sdfsd df wrote on Dec. 27, 2017 @ 06:54 GMT
cara menjadi reseller qnc jelly gamat

Cara Menjadi Agen Qnc Jelly Gamat

manfaat qnc jelly gamat

Obat Tradisional Kista Nabothian Tanpa Operasi

cara menjadi agen qnc jelly gamat

cara menjadi reseller qnc jelly gamat

cara mengobati gondongan pada anak

cara mengobati kanker nasofaring secara alami

obat pembersih sisa janin setelah keguguran

cara mengobati kanker pankreas secara tradisional

obat tradisional benjolan di leher sebelah kanan

obat tradisional tipes untuk orang dewasa

obat tradisional untuk menghentikan haid berkepanjangan

Obat Tradisional Pembekuan Darah Di Otak

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate


Login or create account to post reply or comment.

Please enter your e-mail address:
Note: Joining the FQXi mailing list does not give you a login account or constitute membership in the organization.