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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

**Stefan W.**: *on* 5/9/09 at 11:37am UTC, wrote I think all the quantum puzzles can be easily understood by examining some...

**Georgina Parry**: *on* 3/27/09 at 6:40am UTC, wrote Talk of 3 dimensional objects able to contain themselves. The Klein bottle...

**R.Heinen**: *on* 3/19/09 at 14:20pm UTC, wrote On the link...

**Steve Dufourny**: *on* 3/4/09 at 13:50pm UTC, wrote Hello dear Georgina, It's so interesting your point of vue. the sub...

**Georgina Parry**: *on* 3/4/09 at 9:55am UTC, wrote Neuroscientists are beginning to realise that neurological process are...

**Steve Dufourny**: *on* 2/11/09 at 11:50am UTC, wrote Hello all, Dear Amrit,could you explain me ,please the difference...

**amrit**: *on* 1/21/09 at 13:07pm UTC, wrote We have distinquish between indirect quantum information transfer and...

**John Campbell**: *on* 1/1/09 at 22:09pm UTC, wrote The idea of physics as information transfer is very appealing. Seth Lloyd...

FQXi FORUM

September 25, 2021

Additional Material

In quantum mechanics the observer may decide to measure different sets of complementary variables, for example, in the case of electron spin, the spin components along three orthogonal directions x, y or z in space. The uncertainty in one spin component can be decreased only at the expense of a corresponding increase of uncertainties in other two components. This can easily be understood if one assumes that the information carried by the electron spin is not sufficient to define all three spin components simultaneously. But, why there are exactly 3 and not 4 or 13 or 12875 mutually complementary measurements for the most elementary quantum systems, such as electron spin? The alternative theories differ in exactly this number from quantum theory. Either additional conceptual ingredients are needed to single out quantum theory from the more general class, or perhaps the alternatives are also realized in nature, in a domain that is still beyond our observations.

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In quantum mechanics the observer may decide to measure different sets of complementary variables, for example, in the case of electron spin, the spin components along three orthogonal directions x, y or z in space. The uncertainty in one spin component can be decreased only at the expense of a corresponding increase of uncertainties in other two components. This can easily be understood if one assumes that the information carried by the electron spin is not sufficient to define all three spin components simultaneously. But, why there are exactly 3 and not 4 or 13 or 12875 mutually complementary measurements for the most elementary quantum systems, such as electron spin? The alternative theories differ in exactly this number from quantum theory. Either additional conceptual ingredients are needed to single out quantum theory from the more general class, or perhaps the alternatives are also realized in nature, in a domain that is still beyond our observations.

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The idea of physics as information transfer is very appealing. Seth Lloyd goes so far as to describe the universe as a quantum computer, where each physical interaction entails a computation, the result of the computation is the future history of the interactants.

The most developed frame work of this idea that I have come accross is that being erected by Wojciech Zurek. Using the concept of information transfer and limitations on the quantity of information storage in the process of dechoerence he seems to have been able to derrive the troublesome quantum postulates (collapse and Born's rule). This derivation Leaves quantum theory founded on the sensible postulates (wave function and Schrodenger's equation)

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The most developed frame work of this idea that I have come accross is that being erected by Wojciech Zurek. Using the concept of information transfer and limitations on the quantity of information storage in the process of dechoerence he seems to have been able to derrive the troublesome quantum postulates (collapse and Born's rule). This derivation Leaves quantum theory founded on the sensible postulates (wave function and Schrodenger's equation)

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We have distinquish between indirect quantum information transfer and direct quantum information transfer. By second time is zero.

yours amrit

attachments: Indirect_and_Direct_Quantum_Information_and_Quantum_Energy_Transfer_Sorli_2009.pdf

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yours amrit

attachments: Indirect_and_Direct_Quantum_Information_and_Quantum_Energy_Transfer_Sorli_2009.pdf

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Hello all,

Dear Amrit,could you explain me ,please the difference ,mathematically and physically .....It's very interesting .

Kinds Regards

Steve

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Dear Amrit,could you explain me ,please the difference ,mathematically and physically .....It's very interesting .

Kinds Regards

Steve

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Neuroscientists are beginning to realise that neurological process are dynamic and rely on flow and concentrations of certain neurotransmitters to determine pathways. This kind of comprehension and research, by dynamical neuroscientists, supersedes older mechanistic ideas, which were more like on off switches and considered brains as just very good computers.

In the same way it will eventually be recognised, by all scientists, that all forces are generated by flow and dynamic interactions rather than transfer of particles. Many are still at the "The universe must be like a computer" stage. Bosons will be seen to be just artificial mathematical constructs which enable the results of dynamic interactions to be handled rather than actual particles that are transferred.

The amount of information within a dynamic system will be enormous but rather than thinking of individual bits of information one should be considering the physics of the whole dynamic system, in my opinion. Many professions and industries already use quaternion mathematics to model such dynamic systems. The development and use of these kinds of models will enable the comprehension of the universal system at all scales more readily.

Building up from bits of information is like a hydrological engineer looking at individual water molecules to work out how water will flow in a complex system involving vortices and eddies and gradients etc, etc.

Quantum gravity will not be found because sub atomic particles are able to move in both directions along the 4th dimension and are influenced by their local environment where forces other than gravity have a much greater influence, because of the sub atomic particles minuscule mass.It is these local environmental effects that will determine the particles potential energy. However macroscopic matter is in continuous afore ward motion along the 4th dimension, which gives rise to subjective time and gravity. This continuous motion is always from higher to lower potential energy (from 4th dimensional perspective.). Although because of the motion of objects within 3D vector space, it is not a constant change but a fluctuation in amount of afore ward change in position and a fluctuation in potential energy of objects observed in 3D vector space.

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In the same way it will eventually be recognised, by all scientists, that all forces are generated by flow and dynamic interactions rather than transfer of particles. Many are still at the "The universe must be like a computer" stage. Bosons will be seen to be just artificial mathematical constructs which enable the results of dynamic interactions to be handled rather than actual particles that are transferred.

The amount of information within a dynamic system will be enormous but rather than thinking of individual bits of information one should be considering the physics of the whole dynamic system, in my opinion. Many professions and industries already use quaternion mathematics to model such dynamic systems. The development and use of these kinds of models will enable the comprehension of the universal system at all scales more readily.

Building up from bits of information is like a hydrological engineer looking at individual water molecules to work out how water will flow in a complex system involving vortices and eddies and gradients etc, etc.

Quantum gravity will not be found because sub atomic particles are able to move in both directions along the 4th dimension and are influenced by their local environment where forces other than gravity have a much greater influence, because of the sub atomic particles minuscule mass.It is these local environmental effects that will determine the particles potential energy. However macroscopic matter is in continuous afore ward motion along the 4th dimension, which gives rise to subjective time and gravity. This continuous motion is always from higher to lower potential energy (from 4th dimensional perspective.). Although because of the motion of objects within 3D vector space, it is not a constant change but a fluctuation in amount of afore ward change in position and a fluctuation in potential energy of objects observed in 3D vector space.

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Hello dear Georgina,

It's so interesting your point of vue.

the sub atomic particles minuscule mass.....let's imagine the ultimate coded particle...

The transfer via synapses is indeed a dynamics in correlation with universal dynamics,the physic parameters of our biology ,and that always with a global learning and analyses.

The behavior of elementary particles subjected to the strengths and fundamental constants always ,.

I think that the notion of time and the notion of evolution of our constructive polarization are very important for a whole and global vision.

Let's imagine a foundamental spheroidal system and its connections ....in the small world and of our particles and their codes and our Universe,with the time/space building...the increase of connections must be considered in all centres of interest,...

YOU SAY

It is these local environmental effects that will determine the particles potential energy. However macroscopic matter is in continuous afore ward motion along the 4th dimension, which gives rise to subjective time and gravity. This continuous motion is always from higher to lower potential energy (from 4th dimensional perspective.). Although because of the motion of objects within 3D vector space, it is not a constant change but a fluctuation in amount of afore ward change in position and a fluctuation in potential energy of objects observed in 3D vector space.

Coded math world of particles.... time space....,potential energy as you say and spheric comportments...combinations

yousay that all forces are generated by flow and dynamic interactions rather than transfer of particles..it's important what you say ,the biology ,the chemistry,the physic,the math,the computing ,the philosophy...are linked but are differents in their dynamics.

Thanks ,I am learning all days ,thanks for that .

It completes my point of vue with new datas ,links ,connections....synergies are fantastics.

A very magic world and still so many secrets to discover .

Kinds Regards

Steve

A very magic world and still so many secrets to discover .

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It's so interesting your point of vue.

the sub atomic particles minuscule mass.....let's imagine the ultimate coded particle...

The transfer via synapses is indeed a dynamics in correlation with universal dynamics,the physic parameters of our biology ,and that always with a global learning and analyses.

The behavior of elementary particles subjected to the strengths and fundamental constants always ,.

I think that the notion of time and the notion of evolution of our constructive polarization are very important for a whole and global vision.

Let's imagine a foundamental spheroidal system and its connections ....in the small world and of our particles and their codes and our Universe,with the time/space building...the increase of connections must be considered in all centres of interest,...

YOU SAY

It is these local environmental effects that will determine the particles potential energy. However macroscopic matter is in continuous afore ward motion along the 4th dimension, which gives rise to subjective time and gravity. This continuous motion is always from higher to lower potential energy (from 4th dimensional perspective.). Although because of the motion of objects within 3D vector space, it is not a constant change but a fluctuation in amount of afore ward change in position and a fluctuation in potential energy of objects observed in 3D vector space.

Coded math world of particles.... time space....,potential energy as you say and spheric comportments...combinations

yousay that all forces are generated by flow and dynamic interactions rather than transfer of particles..it's important what you say ,the biology ,the chemistry,the physic,the math,the computing ,the philosophy...are linked but are differents in their dynamics.

Thanks ,I am learning all days ,thanks for that .

It completes my point of vue with new datas ,links ,connections....synergies are fantastics.

A very magic world and still so many secrets to discover .

Kinds Regards

Steve

A very magic world and still so many secrets to discover .

report post as inappropriate

On the link http://www.wuala.com/FreemoveQuantumExchange/Documents/FreeM

ove+Quantum+Exchange+Physical+Law.pdf a proof of the physical law W=n/e is given. This physical law proves that the quantum physical state-space and mathematical state-space from which it emerges are completely independent. In general, the collision probability of a mathematical state-space with n equiprobable states is (1-1/n)^n=1/e. Because this physical law proves that W/n

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ove+Quantum+Exchange+Physical+Law.pdf a proof of the physical law W=n/e is given. This physical law proves that the quantum physical state-space and mathematical state-space from which it emerges are completely independent. In general, the collision probability of a mathematical state-space with n equiprobable states is (1-1/n)^n=1/e. Because this physical law proves that W/n

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Talk of 3 dimensional objects able to contain themselves. The Klein bottle was given as an example of an object that partially contains itself, but not completely. How about the child's water snake toy? This is a hollow water filled soft rubber tube like object.With a single wall that forms both outside and inside. When squeezed the inside rubber is squeezed out and becomes the outside and the outside is pulled in to become the inside rubber.when squeezed in this way it can be difficult to hold onto the snake and prevent it escaping from the hands.I think this qualifies, though it can not contain all of itself at one time. However it can contain all of itself if it is considered over time (or as an object changing position along a 4th spatial dimension)as well as in 3D vector space i.e. if another dimension is included, in which the 3 dimensional object exists.Perhaps mathematical possibilities should not be excluded just because they are not obviously apparent in 3D space.

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I think all the quantum puzzles can be easily understood by examining some certain shared a priori-assumptions that make it possible for ourselves to comprehend nature.

But before i come to my point, i must explain first what i mean with my first sentence here. This first sentence would be somewhat circular if one ignores a crucial fact about the very nature of quantum physics. It would be...

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But before i come to my point, i must explain first what i mean with my first sentence here. This first sentence would be somewhat circular if one ignores a crucial fact about the very nature of quantum physics. It would be...

view entire post

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