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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

Steve Dufourny: on 6/20/22 at 15:46pm UTC, wrote I play guitar and piano, let s imagine that this consciousness is a...

Steve Dufourny: on 6/20/22 at 15:36pm UTC, wrote It is this which seems important, this generality of systems more our...

Steve Dufourny: on 6/20/22 at 15:07pm UTC, wrote It seems essential to not focus on one topic , I have remarked that the...

Steve Dufourny: on 6/20/22 at 12:58pm UTC, wrote Soul or no soul, the generality of our systems seems necessary, more these...

Steve Dufourny: on 6/20/22 at 12:46pm UTC, wrote All this permits to generalise at my humble opinion even if we have still...

Steve Dufourny: on 6/20/22 at 10:36am UTC, wrote Hi , let s try to generalise this hard problems of consciousness in linking...

Steve Dufourny: on 6/19/22 at 17:19pm UTC, wrote without our senses, it is not the same we must feel, touch, observe,...

Steve Dufourny: on 6/19/22 at 16:57pm UTC, wrote I explained this to Bob Coecke on facebook, Have you already thought about...



FQXi FORUM
October 1, 2022

ARTICLE: The Math of Consciousness: Q&A with Kobi Kremnitzer [back to article]
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Anonymous wrote on Mar. 31, 2022 @ 16:17 GMT
It's becoming clear that with all the brain and consciousness theories out there, the proof will be in the pudding. By this I mean, can any particular theory be used to create a human adult level conscious machine. My bet is on the late Gerald Edelman's Extended Theory of Neuronal Group Selection. The lead group in robotics based on this theory is the Neurorobotics Lab at UC at Irvine. Dr....

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Jonathan Mason wrote on Apr. 20, 2022 @ 09:18 GMT
Great article and important research in the field of Mathematical Consciousness Science.

Some useful links:

A wiki explaining what Mathematical Consciousness Science is about is available here

And an updated link to the Models of Consciousness 2022 conference pages are here

It would be wonderful to see greater support for research in this exciting new area in mathematics. One reason why it works so well is because the precise mathematical definitions that the theories/models engender make them much more accessible to scientific scrutiny allowing the modelling cycle to apply. The research Kobi talks about above constitutes a large and important area of possibilities within the wider field which needs to be explored. Excitingly there is no problem to undertake the research, it's easier to do than trying to detect gravitational waves for example, but funding is needed to make it happen; see here.

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Member Jonathan William Mason replied on Apr. 20, 2022 @ 09:36 GMT
The links were striped from the above post, so here they are:

https://wiki.amcs.science/index.php?title=Mathematical_C
onsciousness_Science

https://amcs-community.org/events/moc-3-
2022/

https://omcan.web.ox.ac.uk/new-centre-mathematical-appr
oaches-consciousness-oxford

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Steve Dufourny replied on Apr. 20, 2022 @ 18:17 GMT
Hello Mr Mason,

I have look at these ideas, it is very relevant. His works and ideas are fascinating, I have some ideas too correlated with my humble general theory. I am going to see more about these ideas on their university , this consciousness and the ranking of orders seems the key more the philosophical origin too of this universe, the works of Penrose and Hameroff with the protoconsciousness too is fascinating and the microtubules and the theory of informations, best regards,thanks to have shared this

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Steve Dufourny replied on Apr. 22, 2022 @ 17:18 GMT
I read more about this Dr Edelman , he was famous, it is sad he is dead, hope the team at the UC continues his wonderful ideas. We need persons like him to better understand the brains and this consciousnmess, the secret for me is to unify all sciences and the maths too more the philosophy of origin, it is what I have mad in my model about this consciousness , Penrose too has good ideas with Hameroff and Rovelli too. I try to link all this with my theory and the spheres more the philosophy of this infinite eternal cosnciousness in 0D. There are explainations rational but several limitations still unfortuanlly exist.

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Ulla Marianne Mattfolk wrote on Apr. 22, 2022 @ 18:45 GMT
This is a very interesting work too, shows some non-locality Posner-molecules should work with entanglement. I imagine it can be like Edelmanns reentrant loops.

https://www.projekte.hu-berlin.de/en/larkum/research/l
arkum_tins_2013

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Ulla Marianne Mattfolk replied on Apr. 22, 2022 @ 18:51 GMT
If we imagine evolution has done a rotation of the brain areas so as instance the language could evolve, so probably also with other abilities. The surprising here is that the functions also change, so a rodent relies more on Ca-waves, higher animals use more phosphor and its entanglement, so the entanglement also contain some kind of short memory-effect?

Also in evolution we add, we don't take away. What we add must be discreateness?

Edelmann was once one of my big inspirations.

Ulla.

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Ulla Marianne Mattfolk replied on Apr. 22, 2022 @ 19:25 GMT
https://brainworldmagazine.com/its-alive-what-sentient-netwo
rks-tell-us-about-human-consciousness/

the comment in the post is from this?

Ulla.

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Steve Dufourny replied on Apr. 22, 2022 @ 19:49 GMT
Hi Ulla, happy to see you on FQXi, I knew that you d like this blog, he is very relevant indeed this thinker the Dr Edelman, I read several works from him and more I read them, more I am facinated. This consciousness, the brains, the microtubules,the protoconsciousness, the different orders of consciousess, the propagating waves, the inmformations, the memoryt, the links with the DNA, my humble ideas too with the motions rortations of spheres and oscillations more the deformations of spheres , tere is something to analyse deeper aboutr these motions, rotations of spherical volumes and the links with the creations of biological systems due to DNA and the transferts of informations. The memory too seems impotrnmat correlated with the motions of spherical partilces and their complexity more the stabilities of informations considering the volumes and motions.

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Nicholas Hosein wrote on Apr. 22, 2022 @ 20:05 GMT
[QUOTE="wellwisher, post: 7655541, member: 64918"]Consciousness can be explained with basic principles of science that do not require extra dimensions.[/quote]

The hard problem requires at least four dimensions. Prepare to be amazed by something I wrote in the meditative state of the high.

The higher dimension contains the separation, effecting the non-separation

It goes on further, but  that is all I can remember right now. I wrote that in 2007 at the age of 24.

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Steve Dufourny replied on Apr. 22, 2022 @ 20:11 GMT
Hi Mr Hossein, I agree totally this consciousness does not extradimensions and I believe strongly too that our physics don t need extradiemnsions , the strings and geometrical algebras have created consfusions and we could return at this old school with the pure newtonian motions rotations oscillations of particles.

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Steve Dufourny replied on Apr. 22, 2022 @ 20:12 GMT
Could you tell us more about your model and this 4D please

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Steve Dufourny replied on Apr. 22, 2022 @ 20:14 GMT
higher dimensions are not necessary and the 4D can be just quaternions for the changes ands time that we have invented for the duration. And the geomtrical algebras instead to create extradimensions or like in the strings 10D, 11D or 26D, we can just consider a pre 3D at all scales and just fractalisations of this 3D to reach the unknowns, and this 4D for the motions and changes simply with a kind of time wich is not a real dimension but just a parameter for the motions of this 3D.

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Anonymous wrote on Apr. 29, 2022 @ 17:59 GMT
HIGHER DIMENSIONS ARE NECESSARY READ IT AGAIN YOUR STATEMENT IS BASED ON IGNORANCE!!!

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Steve Dufourny replied on Apr. 29, 2022 @ 20:13 GMT
Maybe it is better to make an other passion than trying to explain the hard problem of consciousness, it is probably due to an euphory spititual still, you are elected of god maybe too, I read your posts it is total non sense,Higher dimensions are notr necessary, on the other side we fractalise our pure 3D, still one thinking god gives him answers in synchros of fields in his pseudo dimension, make an other passion really. you develop nothing, you just put the same and the same still ironical posts, I insist still a religious mixing sciences and religions and a syndrom of elected, and after what , a lesson about the universal altruistic love too , yes of course, amin

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Steve Dufourny replied on Apr. 29, 2022 @ 20:17 GMT
require at least 4 dimensions, lol the fourth dimension is just a dimension of time for the quaternions for the motions and chanmges, and what are the others lol , a dimension of fields of God synchronised in your brain with deepe meditations too and strings in synchros , for your informations, the strings and the 10d, 11d or 26 D are just mathematical extrapolations to find unknowns, it is not real extradimensions, so indeed stop to tell euphoric spiritual affirmations, you have proved nothing about the consciousness, read the works or rovelli, penrose,hameroff and edelman , after maybe you could be more rational because there frankly , in telling these things on this platform, it is ironical, it is not facebook or linkedin, on this, work your own consciousness and try to be rational and deterministic instead to affirm assumptions

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Nicholas hosein wrote on Apr. 29, 2022 @ 18:07 GMT
By combining the opposition between internal and external existence the flaws in both worlds become neutralized.

This is the role of consciousness.

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Steve Dufourny replied on Apr. 29, 2022 @ 20:19 GMT
lol and what are the internal and external existences neutralised , yes this is the role of assumptions....

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Steve Dufourny replied on Apr. 29, 2022 @ 20:41 GMT
If you developped for example a model where the neuronal space and cognitive space are under wavefunctions and transferts of informations and that a kind of complexity appears due to the informations interacting and where the rule of microtubules are taken into acoount more a kind of link with the works of penrose where the protoconsciousnmess is a reality and that there is a kind of cloud about all this sphere of informations interacting ,that could be relevant but no you conme with 2 lines in telling nothing.It is there that the works of penrose and edelman are relevant for the orchestrated objective reduction and in my model we couls consider the motions of spherical volumes and a kind too of 0D of consciousness from a kind of infinite etrnal consciousness, but we are linited still about the real cause of this hard problem of consciousness. The philosophy and sociaology and evolution too seem essential like the dna and the encoding of informations in a kind of spacevaccuum possessing the main codes, but we cannot reach these main codes actually. The electromagnetic waves are important but are not sufficient, that is why we must differenciate the intelligence and the consciousness even with a complexity of informations electromagnetically speaking, So your extradiemnsions and this spiritual euphory , no thanks

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Nicholas hosein wrote on May. 7, 2022 @ 17:10 GMT
Please ignore the crank. My responses are nothing short of revolutionary.

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Steve Dufourny replied on May. 7, 2022 @ 19:43 GMT
develop because we see nothing there , you wrote this in 2007 but we see no development of the ideas, try to be concrete , we are not on facebook, you tell nothing, you develop nothing, nor in physics, nor in maths, nor in philosophy, we don t know what you tell, we don t know if you have a general model, or a general theory, you tell just some words without real menaing , sorry but it is true

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Thomas Howard Ray wrote on May. 12, 2022 @ 21:37 GMT
Kobi,

You write as if information accumulates like physical grains of sand that form an Avalanche model (Per Bak). I beg to be corrected on this.

Can you reconcile your model with a model of quantum mechanics that doesn't collapse (Everett, e.g.)?

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Thomas Howard Ray replied on Jun. 9, 2022 @ 00:19 GMT
Kobi, if you're listening ... :-)

Giving some context to the above, I am working on a paper in which this model plays a role.

I am comfortable with what I have so far:

More on nonlinear time.

We have written our opinion that general relativity – a theory bounded in time and unbounded in space – would suffer little if it were viewed as bounded in space and...

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Steve Dufourny wrote on Jun. 20, 2022 @ 10:36 GMT
Hi , let s try to generalise this hard problems of consciousness in linking the known dats and the unknowns and in trying to imagine extrapolations to formalise all this and for the computing.

The works of Penrose, Hameroff , Diosi and these microtubules and collapse are an interesting point even if we need to superimpose these deeper fields and informations probably. But it is like a...

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Steve Dufourny replied on Jun. 20, 2022 @ 12:46 GMT
All this permits to generalise at my humble opinion even if we have still unknowms at this quantum level, so we must compute all the systems and in fact correlate with an external robot connected with all these systems and mimating the sensory systems .of course we arrive at deontological questions and maybe we must be prudent because we don t know really this philosophical origin an the body mind soul problem, in my model I consider that we have souls and so after the death, we have a physical soul and if these souls are resynchronised on an other planet in the same kind of evolutive step for the bodies, so it becomes intriguing if we synchronise a soul which can be conscious in this system that we have created. We play like god in fact with this. It is an assumption of course , we don t know all this , we just have our own intepretations but that can be true this continuity of souls and it is there that the informations encoded can be sorted in function of their importances for the lifes on our earth but for our life like a soul too. The meditations could consider too different levels of consciousness but maybe some levels are not reachable. I don t know in fact.

That is why I spoke about this DE possessing these main codes and informations , even for the souls, and maybe the consciousness is linked with this too, we don t know in fact all this.

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Steve Dufourny replied on Jun. 20, 2022 @ 12:58 GMT
Soul or no soul, the generality of our systems seems necessary, more these sensory systems and the external environments, more the unknwons at this quantum level, the scalar field probably of this DE more the other fields not known to add to to this cold dark matter encoded like these photons, the quantum gravitation appears in this line of reasoning and probably a massive gravitons is a reality , that implies so a different phiolosophy that just this general relativity and the fields and oscillations of photons in 1D . That implies so a deeper philosophy too that just the oscillations, waves, fields and resonances of our brains . That said these oscillations can permit to rank the informations even if we don t know all the fields of our standard model and even if we don t know these primary informations of the DE.

The mathematics so now arrive to formalise and compute all this with the actual binar codes but in trying maybe to converge with these qutrits of the universe considering these 3 main systems and in considering these 3D spheres in a sueprfluidity , that will permit to reach a quantum computer at my humble opinion. But not easy I must say seen the complexity of biological systems and the conmplexity of this consciousness and the unknowns.

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Steve Dufourny replied on Jun. 20, 2022 @ 15:07 GMT
It seems essential to not focus on one topic , I have remarked that the majority of models are not general, they consider mainly the neuro sciences with a little bit of physics, or after it is the computing with the informations, or thje maths with a little bit of philosophy, or the cognistice sciences and some philosophy, but they never try to unify all the sciences with the computing more a deeper philosophy and more deeper ideas for the quantum computing and more deeper fields , in fact at my humble opinion all must be considered and in a kind of partitions in changing the parameters to reach this consciousness, it is maybe a problem deomtological because we play at god , but we can reach it if we consider all the systems that I explained , the consciousness emerges due to an add of many systems , not one or 2 or 3 and the quantum level alone is not sufficient even if we consider the spirituality and philosophies , it is not about even fields and oscillations of these photons and this GR , it is more more complex than this.

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