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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

Georgina Woodward: on 9/19/21 at 20:44pm UTC, wrote Max? Why?

Georgina Woodward: on 9/19/21 at 4:45am UTC, wrote The mass of the lion entity is not divided between different areas of high...

Georgina Woodward: on 9/19/21 at 2:09am UTC, wrote "Superfluous" is not the correct word. 'Redundant' or 'no longer viable' is...

Georgina Woodward: on 9/19/21 at 1:27am UTC, wrote The superseding of the LLPF lion representation with the obtaining of...

Georgina Woodward: on 9/18/21 at 19:06pm UTC, wrote Alteration of the distribution of base existence, in the presence of mass,...

Georgina Woodward: on 9/18/21 at 5:59am UTC, wrote Observation products formed from received EMr aren't evidence of material...

Georgina Woodward: on 9/18/21 at 4:12am UTC, wrote Cf. Lion Location Probability Field and lion entity trapped- with QFT type...

Georgina Woodward: on 9/18/21 at 1:43am UTC, wrote Further about the lion representation. To show how it is similar to...



FQXi FORUM
September 28, 2021

CATEGORY: High Energy Physics [back]
TOPIC: Anatomy of spacetime and possible origins of internal symmetry and all particle quantum numbers [refresh]
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FQXi Administrator Joe Schindler wrote on Sep. 9, 2021 @ 18:03 GMT
Thank you to Dr. Kwan Chiang for suggesting a discussion of their recent paper Anatomy of spacetime and possible origins of internal symmetry and all particle quantum numbers which was published in Physics Essays in 2020.

Abstract:

Not driven by observations, this paper digs into the “internal workings” of spacetime. Through logical deductions, micro dimensions appear to be uncovered, with possible SU(4) or SU(5): 1. It is thought that special relativity merely initiated the definition of spacetime, but more scales are yet to be defined. 2. In the definition of spacetime, EM (electromagnetism) played another critical role, i.e., the six circular magnetic and electric field lines (running on the six planes) cross and “define equivalencies” between the four linear scales. Without this definition, light would not be measured at the same speed in different directions. Being a gauge theory, EM defines two things: Linear scales and “equivalencies” between linear scales. 3. For any scale (and their equivalencies), there could be no or many arbitrarily assumed definitions, or a concrete definition based on relevant physics. Nature would conform with but the one based on relevant physics, because Nature itself is consisted of that relevant physics. Thus, the principle: No scale and their equivalencies are meaningful unless defined by relevant physics. 4. Then, what are those fields running (and defining equivalencies between the six “angle scales”) on the six planes of the 4D spacetime? It is believed to be the “classical” weak fields which run in solid angles (or “3D angles”) between the six planes. (The only suspicion is that this rotation does not preserve vector length, which is not a problem ultimately.) 5. If the six angle scales are drawn as six axes of a 6D superspace, then the “3D angle” rotations look like “plane angle” rotations and cause SO(6)∼SU(4) [or SO(10)∼SU(5) for 5D spacetime], which appears to match baryon spectrum without quarks. 6. Since this rotation is between “planes” of the “external” spacetime, no linear dimension is visible, yet causing P-violations. 7. Similarly, fields running in 4D and 5D angle rotations (between 3D and 4D surfaces) must also exist, which may be responsible for CP-violation and strong interactions. 8. The 5D angle rotations may be generating Baryon and Lepton numbers and hence explaining their conservation behaviors, e.g., no proton decay. 9. It can be inferred, if 3D, 4D (and 5D) angle rotation fields did not exist, the 4D (and 5D) spacetime would be warped and the four (or five) linear axes would not be perpendicular to each other. 10. EM was simplified and turned elegant “only” after redefinition of spacetime by special relativity. Likewise, weak, CP-violation and strong interactions are expected to simplify and turn as elegant as EM when 2D (plane), 3D, and 4D angle scales are defined by weak, CP-violation, and strong forces, respectively. 11. Verifications as accurate as EM are expected too. 12. Mathematically, higher angle rotations thought to be inexistent only because it does not conserve vector length. Actually, they did not vanish and their symmetries would surface in particle classifications when linear momentum is not concerned. Micro dimensions being invisible is because symmetries do not have to happen between linear axes, but can happen between 2-, 3- or 4-surfaces. These geometries together generate the complete particles spectrum.

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Steve Dufourny wrote on Sep. 10, 2021 @ 10:44 GMT
Hi Dr Kwan Chiang, thanks for sharing your works. I like the generality of your ideas. I have remarked that the majority of thinkers actually consider only this spacetime of the GR and they consider philosophically that we have only this spacetime and photons like primordial essence. So they try with the points or strings in begining in 1D and extradimensions and geometrical algebras to unify this GR and the QFT .

But if the standard is emergent from a deeper logic in codes in the particles and that the space vacuum of the DE possesses the main codes and encodes simply the photons and the cold dark matter, so the standard model does not come from the tensors , fields of this GR but from the vacuum. I know that it is difficult to change a line of reasoning but I doubt strongly that this universe has only created photons oscillating you know. Even with the strings, branes, Mtheory we cannot solve the deepest unknowns and mainly the quantum gravitation and the constant cosmological problem, if we cannot there are reasons, it is probably due to fact that the aim is not to unify G c and h , the QFT , the QM and the GR but we must superimpose the DM and the DE probably.

All the maths of geometrical algebras of Lie or clifford have been tried to renormalise the QG, but we cannot even with groups, subgroups, the non commutativity or non associativity, that proves that it lacks things and the main problem for me is philosophical about the origin. The lie groups of course are relevant in the sense that we have symmetries and that we can rank the goups, but I believe strongly that the main error is to consider these fields like origin of our topologices, geometries, matters, fields. I think that the particles are the secret in a superfluidity with 3 spacetimes superimposed and the 3D spheres like foundamental objects.

That said, congrats for your general work, you have well worked about the groups and fields to better understand the emergent QFT. Best regards

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Kwan Chiang replied on Sep. 11, 2021 @ 00:47 GMT
Dear Professor Dufourny,

Thank you for your comments. A free copy of this paper is attached for full understanding.

Best regards,

attachments: PaperToSub-OriginOfInternalSymmetry-PE-Published-13Chiang.pdf

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Georgina Woodward wrote on Sep. 15, 2021 @ 03:39 GMT
Spacetime has been postulated to account for individually differing temporal observation of the same event, according to relative distance and relative motion of the observers: It is unnecessary to assume the observers’ reference frames are different Present slices of material reality, assuming that all material reality persists as the spacetime continuum. Mathematically described as 4D spacetime by H. Minkowski.

Instead what’s needed is individual receipt of sensory input from a changing but ever uni-temporal environment; into which the potential sensory data (especially EMr stimulus for our primary sense, was and is distributed.)

The potential sensory data transmission time from Source object /s to receipt being ‘reflected’ in the observation product; Generated by the observer (emergent) and distinct from the external environment. Giving too emergent experienced passage of the Present time.

The changing configuration of all existent things being foundational passage of time (categorically different and not a dimension)

The environment where particles and material objects exist and interact, independent of observation is not the observation product spacetime……but the source environment, where potential stimuli persist, until absorbed or dissipated..; EMR, sound waves, chemicals, electric and magnetic fields) a more foundational space than the observation generated spacetime.

The relevance of this is the "digging into the internal workings" is an examination of the wrong 'animal'. I do not know the effect of removing the time dimension on the outcomes the paper found.

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Georgina Woodward replied on Sep. 15, 2021 @ 06:18 GMT
For completeness: Concerning The curved spacetime of GR. Alteration of the distribution of base existence causes the curvature of EM waves. Affecting travel time to an observer. As they can carry potential sensory data, the travel time is 'reflected' in the products generated. Which could be clock times. The generated effect not cause, is traditionally modelled as curved spacetime. Being a model of the product it isn't the foundational environment, where particles and matter exist.

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Georgina Woodward replied on Sep. 16, 2021 @ 20:03 GMT
The perception generated of time difference relates to the potential sensory data processed. The clock times generated from received signals show time of signal origin. Those times, retrieved from the signal, are emergent manifestations. They are not foundational differences in time of material being/existence. The what is actually a 'sensory product' time dimension ( in SR and GR) is irrelevant to the being of particles and material objects.

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Georgina Woodward replied on Sep. 17, 2021 @ 00:17 GMT
That is about the 'anatomy"" of spacetime.

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Georgina Woodward wrote on Sep. 17, 2021 @ 01:19 GMT
If considering existence rather than appearances, the time dimension related to sensory products can be omitted. Space is uni-temporal then. That is the same time everywhere. Each foundational time is the configuration of all that exists. Only the most recent configuration exists. Former configurations can be represented along a historical time line. Not a dimension. Detection and interactions can only happening the most recent, only existing configuration.

A lions behaviour within its territory can be monitored Giving location probabilities, which are spatially spread out. They will also vary with time of day. Eg more likely to be resting under the favorite tree at noon. More likely near the water hole in the evening. Prediction and retrodiction can be made. Even though the lion can not be existing beyond or preceding the uni-temporal configuration of existence. For this kind of scenario an imagined line also extending beyond uni-temporal-Now is required.

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Georgina Woodward replied on Sep. 18, 2021 @ 01:43 GMT
Further about the lion representation. To show how it is similar to representation of a particle's location. The probability of finding the lion at each location, at each time is represented by a number. The numbers will also be affected by having another lion in the territory, according to their relationship. If two probability map sequences are drawn up, one for each lion they will seem to affect each other. I.e. not be the same as for two lone individuals. Re. the measurement problem. Trapping, shooting or otherwise encountering the lion by material interaction with it provides a singular measurement location. That supersedes the location probability map.

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Georgina Woodward replied on Sep. 18, 2021 @ 04:12 GMT
Cf. Lion Location Probability Field and lion entity trapped- with QFT type representation and a particle detection.

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Georgina Woodward replied on Sep. 19, 2021 @ 01:27 GMT
The superseding of the LLPF lion representation with the obtaining of trapped lion location information does not mean that 'collapse' of the LLPF created or caused the discreetly located lion-being to be formed. The material lion location is just a better description, once obtained. Making the location probability description superfluous.

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Georgina Woodward wrote on Sep. 17, 2021 @ 23:31 GMT
Still about the anatomy of spacetime. Max Tegmark/ 10mths ago/ Closer to truth video. How can he still trust in 4th dimensional 'spaghetti' existence notion. There is no evidence that former configurations of matter persist as well as the current configuration. There is evidence that potential sensory stimuli persist in the environment. That persistence alone accounts for non simultaneity of experience of same (Source) events.

Having lived a nice life, the spaghetti analogy may be a pleasant thought. What if you'd suffered horribly, such as burning in an accident? The thought of persistence of that sequence of configurations of material existence is not so pleasant. The pleasantness of the personal thought of 4th dimensional existence beyond death does not make up for the lack of evidence. And that its not needed for relativity.

Why can't I get any traction?

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Georgina Woodward replied on Sep. 18, 2021 @ 05:59 GMT
Observation products formed from received EMr aren't evidence of material persistence in time. Not even images formed that show likenesses of cosmological entities. Such as stars, gas clouds, even a black hole. The ability to form such images requires persistence of the EMr signals in an environment without a time dimension.

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Georgina Woodward replied on Sep. 19, 2021 @ 20:44 GMT
Max? Why?

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