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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

Pavel Poluian: on 5/18/20 at 18:18pm UTC, wrote The most difficult question is another. There is space, it is a void around...

Vinay Seth: on 5/10/20 at 9:34am UTC, wrote Thanks-I never knew about him! You're referring to this, right?...

Satyavarapu Gupta: on 5/9/20 at 4:17am UTC, wrote Dear Vinay Seth You tried to develop a cognitive system for humans and for...

John Vastola: on 5/6/20 at 18:38pm UTC, wrote I too struggle with the idea of 'primitive' notions. Doing things like...

Michael muteru: on 5/6/20 at 9:48am UTC, wrote Dear Seth. Simple well crafted structured essay delving on very pertinent...

Branko Zivlak: on 4/26/20 at 10:55am UTC, wrote Dear Vinay The problems with the particle and space that you have...

Vinay Seth: on 4/26/20 at 3:52am UTC, wrote You make an interesting point there. Thanks for the link to your essay-I...

Edwin Klingman: on 4/25/20 at 22:39pm UTC, wrote Dear Vinay, You ask a number of questions, that, I believe, are all aimed...


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FQXi FORUM
September 17, 2021

CATEGORY: Undecidability, Uncomputability, and Unpredictability Essay Contest (2019-2020) [back]
TOPIC: A Musinf upon the Nature of Fundamental Objects vis-a-vis the Point and the Plane by Vinay Seth [refresh]
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Author Vinay Seth wrote on Apr. 25, 2020 @ 17:40 GMT
Essay Abstract

Are the fundamental objects of any knowledge system the fundamental objects of the subject that is to be studied? Or are they merely an arbitrary set of fictional forms conjured up by the human mind? Also, are these fundamental objects really mutually exclusive forms upon which the structure of the knowledge system can be built upon? I contemplate upon these questions as I ponder upon the nature of the Point and the Plane.

Author Bio

A 29-year-old man trained in and teaching the Visual Arts. I possess an eclectic set of interests and keep asking myself what the world really is.

Download Essay PDF File

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Edwin Eugene Klingman wrote on Apr. 25, 2020 @ 22:39 GMT
Dear Vinay,

You ask a number of questions, that, I believe, are all aimed at the same point, which is our comprehension of the 3-dimensional world we live in:

So I would propose that a ‘primitive notion’ such as a Point is a fictitious entity that is somehow related to how the human brain makes sense of the world on a biological level.

Is it even possible to come to an understanding of the world without fictional cognitive categories? Could we somehow come to comprehend the world through its actual organizational structure, instead of comprehending it through human-made fictional categories as we are doing now? Can we really understand the world as it is, rather than in terms of its abstractions created by the human mind?

I have argued above that the fundamental building blocks of Geometry are fictional ideas born of the human mind. Are the fundamental objects just a creation of our mind to understand a seamless whole, owing to the cognitive limitation of the human mind?


First, I would point out that one can watch very young children move blocks of various shapes in puzzles, and do so perfectly, long before they even have names for the pieces. So I don’t think that they are operating on ‘fictional categories’ at all. I believe that they perceive ontological reality.

My essay Deciding on the nature of time and space treats this problem in a novel fashion. I hope you will read it and comment.

Best regards,

Edwin Eugene Klingman

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Author Vinay Seth replied on Apr. 26, 2020 @ 03:52 GMT
You make an interesting point there. Thanks for the link to your essay-I shall read it as soon as I get time! Shall update you about the same soon.

Thanks again for taking time out to read my essay, and thanks for the feedback :)

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Branko L Zivlak wrote on Apr. 26, 2020 @ 10:55 GMT
Dear Vinay

The problems with the particle and space that you have highlighted were solved by Rudjer Boskovic in his Philosophy of Nature… 2.5 centuries ago.

So if you are really interested in solving the issues highlighted in your essay you should study his work.

Regards,

Branko

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Author Vinay Seth replied on May. 10, 2020 @ 09:34 GMT
Thanks-I never knew about him! You're referring to this, right? http://fulir.irb.hr/281/1/theoryofnaturalphilosophyBoskovic.
pdf

Is there any chapter that deals with the idea specifically? I couldn't find any list of contents in the pdf.

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Michael muteru wrote on May. 6, 2020 @ 09:48 GMT
Dear Seth. Simple well crafted structured essay delving on very pertinent crucial questions on existence.Keep up.Rated you accordingly.Is cognitive bias, notoriously responsible for the 3 Us? kindly read my opinion here https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3525.Thanks and all the best in the essay contest.

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John Joseph Vastola wrote on May. 6, 2020 @ 18:38 GMT
I too struggle with the idea of 'primitive' notions. Doing things like Euclid did, talking about points as having "no part", doesn't work that well, like you point out. Modern mathematical treatments of geometry are more careful, acknowledging that you have to take some things for granted, i.e. I can't tell you what a point or line 'is', but I can tell you all sorts of facts about both of them and their relationships as long as we both agree that they follow certain rules. For example, whatever points and lines really 'are', if we agree that any two distinct points uniquely specifies a line, then we can show this or that result follows from that assumption.

It's pretty deep to wonder about the relationship between the real world and our idealizations of it. We can make mathematical models of how things like atoms behave, but how do those models relate to real atoms? Are they different because our imaginations are limited? Are they different because human understanding requires significant simplification? Can we do better, or are we always restricted to simplified representions of the world?

Keep wondering about all this! All these threads are fun and productive to follow, regardless of what their answers might be.

John

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Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on May. 9, 2020 @ 04:17 GMT
Dear Vinay Seth

You tried to develop a cognitive system for humans and for universe. I tried with point masses and gravitational force vectors. On every point mass there will be UGF ( Universal Gravitation force) creates a resultant force vector that moves the mass. This UGF, varies with position in space and Time, and is not constant.

Dynamic Universe model calculates UGF on every mass every moment, all masses are different.

For full details have a look at my essay "A properly deciding, Computing and Predicting new theory’s Philosophy"....

According to Dynamic Universe model, probably this overall UGF is the Consciousness of the Universe...

Best wishes to your essay

=snp

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Pavel Vadimovich Poluian wrote on May. 18, 2020 @ 18:18 GMT
The most difficult question is another. There is space, it is a void around us. There is a void. And here is the point - is it there? Or is it completely a work of our mind? I also thought about it. I have a hypothesis. A point is a puncture in the metric. This is real NOTHING. There really are points around us! They live some kind of their own life ............................................................
......

Probably, we think only thanks to them.)))

Since we are thinking about points, we will give you a high rating. Honor our essay. Let's continue the conversation)))

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