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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC
Ivan Collins: on 4/5/22 at 12:37pm UTC, wrote Thanks for the information.
Ian Durham: on 5/20/20 at 1:28am UTC, wrote Hi Eric, I will try to remember to e-mail you some stuff. If I forget,...
Peter Jackson: on 5/18/20 at 21:15pm UTC, wrote Erik, Interesting and original approach. Nicely written. Do you consider...
Lachlan Cresswell: on 5/18/20 at 2:46am UTC, wrote Dear Eric, I believe the 'flow of time' is a most important concept in...
Eric Aspling: on 5/18/20 at 0:52am UTC, wrote Professor Davies, Thank you for your comments. I read your fantastic book...
Eric Aspling: on 5/18/20 at 0:35am UTC, wrote Sherman, I couldn't agree more. Thank you for reading my essay and for...
Eric Aspling: on 5/18/20 at 0:34am UTC, wrote Ian! Thank you for reading my essay and for your comments. It's always...
Eric Aspling: on 5/18/20 at 0:17am UTC, wrote Timothy, Wow, thank you for such kind remarks. I am very novice at writing...
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Ivan Collins: on 4/5/22 at 12:37pm UTC, wrote Thanks for the information.
Ian Durham: on 5/20/20 at 1:28am UTC, wrote Hi Eric, I will try to remember to e-mail you some stuff. If I forget,...
Peter Jackson: on 5/18/20 at 21:15pm UTC, wrote Erik, Interesting and original approach. Nicely written. Do you consider...
Lachlan Cresswell: on 5/18/20 at 2:46am UTC, wrote Dear Eric, I believe the 'flow of time' is a most important concept in...
Eric Aspling: on 5/18/20 at 0:52am UTC, wrote Professor Davies, Thank you for your comments. I read your fantastic book...
Eric Aspling: on 5/18/20 at 0:35am UTC, wrote Sherman, I couldn't agree more. Thank you for reading my essay and for...
Eric Aspling: on 5/18/20 at 0:34am UTC, wrote Ian! Thank you for reading my essay and for your comments. It's always...
Eric Aspling: on 5/18/20 at 0:17am UTC, wrote Timothy, Wow, thank you for such kind remarks. I am very novice at writing...
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Balybin Urievich: "As for me, teaching the younger generation is one of the main tasks of..." in The Present State of...
John Cox: "Okay. In Topology, all points on a sphere are vector positions and..." in The Quantum Identity...
Vending Ways: "Vending Ways is a UAE-based leading distributor of Coin Operated Washing..." in MCQST2021 | The universe...
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FQXi FORUM
May 23, 2022
CATEGORY:
Undecidability, Uncomputability, and Unpredictability Essay Contest (2019-2020)
[back]
TOPIC: Asymmetry of Time Symmetry by Eric Aspling [refresh]
TOPIC: Asymmetry of Time Symmetry by Eric Aspling [refresh]
Essay Abstract
Predictability can be broken down into well defined pieces within physics except for two words: "Before" and "After". Through the usage of a thought experiment, we show how multiple interpretations of time reversal symmetry skews our understanding of how ``Before" and ``After" are to be understood. These two interpretations are used heavily throughout physics but find themselves constantly at odds when explaining reality. In this short essay, we will showcase each area of physics that utilizes the interpretations and likewise why the two often dispute each other.
Author Bio
Graduate student at Binghamton University studying Quantum Field Theory of Generalized particle statistics (parastistics). I am interested in time and symmetries of nature as well as understanding how causality and statistics are related to each other in cosmological phenomenology.
Download Essay PDF File
Predictability can be broken down into well defined pieces within physics except for two words: "Before" and "After". Through the usage of a thought experiment, we show how multiple interpretations of time reversal symmetry skews our understanding of how ``Before" and ``After" are to be understood. These two interpretations are used heavily throughout physics but find themselves constantly at odds when explaining reality. In this short essay, we will showcase each area of physics that utilizes the interpretations and likewise why the two often dispute each other.
Author Bio
Graduate student at Binghamton University studying Quantum Field Theory of Generalized particle statistics (parastistics). I am interested in time and symmetries of nature as well as understanding how causality and statistics are related to each other in cosmological phenomenology.
Download Essay PDF File
Dear Eric Aspling,
thank you very much for this perfect essay. I agree, one side has to break, perhaps both. Can we calculate which side has to break or if only one or both.
To make long stories short i offer a picture:
When we use mathematics like 1/0 and 0/1 we introduce "allowed" and "not allowed". But basicly we cannot know if 1/0 is infinity or Zero.
Having said that a line of information like 100111001100011110000000100011111001..
and we give a rule for neighbours like operate multiplication a*b to the rigth will give us a random generator.(time-concept only in one direction working)
Doing the same operation on a line of information like 11(-1)(-1)1111(-1)1(-1)(-1)(-1)1111 we can go forward and backward in time.
That said, we can predict that not on of both camps (1 and 0) but both camp "0" (general Relativity) and camp 1 (Quantum-Theory) will have to break entirely.
Time already told, as if we can travel back in time with (1) and (-1)
Best regards, Manfred U.E.Pohl
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thank you very much for this perfect essay. I agree, one side has to break, perhaps both. Can we calculate which side has to break or if only one or both.
To make long stories short i offer a picture:
When we use mathematics like 1/0 and 0/1 we introduce "allowed" and "not allowed". But basicly we cannot know if 1/0 is infinity or Zero.
Having said that a line of information like 100111001100011110000000100011111001..
and we give a rule for neighbours like operate multiplication a*b to the rigth will give us a random generator.(time-concept only in one direction working)
Doing the same operation on a line of information like 11(-1)(-1)1111(-1)1(-1)(-1)(-1)1111 we can go forward and backward in time.
That said, we can predict that not on of both camps (1 and 0) but both camp "0" (general Relativity) and camp 1 (Quantum-Theory) will have to break entirely.
Time already told, as if we can travel back in time with (1) and (-1)
Best regards, Manfred U.E.Pohl
Dear Manfred,
Thank you for your reply. I do believe there is a lot to be discovered in time physics using information theory like the bit style you present. Namely, the up and coming quantum computing and quantum circuits seem to be the best approach to modeling information probabalistically. It is an exciting time to be studying this field.
Eric
Thank you for your reply. I do believe there is a lot to be discovered in time physics using information theory like the bit style you present. Namely, the up and coming quantum computing and quantum circuits seem to be the best approach to modeling information probabalistically. It is an exciting time to be studying this field.
Eric
Congratulations on a nice essay. You summazied well some interesting ideas about time. In my essay you might find food for thought on how an element of irreversibility could be inherently present even in classical theory. This could be perhaps used to characterize a direction of time. If you have a little time to read it, I would appreciate your comments on the possible resonance between our ideas.
All the best,
Flavio
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All the best,
Flavio
Hi Flavio,
Thank you for your remarks. I only briefly looked through your Essay. It was very well written and I am planning to go through it in much more detail. When I do I will comment on your page. Thanks again.
Eric
P.S. I believe from first glances you and I would have much to discuss regarding the overlaps.
Thank you for your remarks. I only briefly looked through your Essay. It was very well written and I am planning to go through it in much more detail. When I do I will comment on your page. Thanks again.
Eric
P.S. I believe from first glances you and I would have much to discuss regarding the overlaps.
Hi Eric,
Your excellent essay clearly presents a fundamental conflict about time. This conflict arises from the determinism and time-reversibility of physical reality. Determinism and time-symmetry are not mandated by empirical facts, however. Resolving this conflict requires an analysis of the assumptions underlying fundamental determinism and time-symmetry.
My essay presents an alternative model that is consistent with empirical facts, in which randomness and asymmetry are fundamental. As further developed in a referenced essay (Reinventing Time), this alternative model can accommodate both CTRS and LTRS as distinct special cases.
Harrison Crecraft
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Your excellent essay clearly presents a fundamental conflict about time. This conflict arises from the determinism and time-reversibility of physical reality. Determinism and time-symmetry are not mandated by empirical facts, however. Resolving this conflict requires an analysis of the assumptions underlying fundamental determinism and time-symmetry.
My essay presents an alternative model that is consistent with empirical facts, in which randomness and asymmetry are fundamental. As further developed in a referenced essay (Reinventing Time), this alternative model can accommodate both CTRS and LTRS as distinct special cases.
Harrison Crecraft
Harrison,
Thank you for your remarks. There is so much to say in regards to determinism and time. I am very lucky to be exploring these ideas. I will absolutely look at your essay!
Eric
Thank you for your remarks. There is so much to say in regards to determinism and time. I am very lucky to be exploring these ideas. I will absolutely look at your essay!
Eric
Dear Dr. Eric Aspling,
Your Logical thought experiment is very good!!! Your words.......................Under the first interpretation, you have truly reversed time in which Schwartz tells us particles become antiparticles traveling backward in time...........
Confusion arises when anti particle annihilates with a particle of same type, it will result in eternal NOW???
In "Dynamic Universe Model" time is having only positive direction as we see on earth. See for further details see my essay .....
“A properly deciding, Computing and Predicting new theory’s Philosophy”
I am looking for your comments please
Best
=snp.gupta
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Your Logical thought experiment is very good!!! Your words.......................Under the first interpretation, you have truly reversed time in which Schwartz tells us particles become antiparticles traveling backward in time...........
Confusion arises when anti particle annihilates with a particle of same type, it will result in eternal NOW???
In "Dynamic Universe Model" time is having only positive direction as we see on earth. See for further details see my essay .....
“A properly deciding, Computing and Predicting new theory’s Philosophy”
I am looking for your comments please
Best
=snp.gupta
SNP Gupta,
Thank you so much for your kinds remarks it is indeed very confusing. The discussion regarding time symmetries is a very slippery slope. One must be very careful about grammar and definition or we end up accomplishing nothing. Thanks again
Eric
Thank you so much for your kinds remarks it is indeed very confusing. The discussion regarding time symmetries is a very slippery slope. One must be very careful about grammar and definition or we end up accomplishing nothing. Thanks again
Eric
Interesting, well written essay on the nature of time.
However, your essay does not mention the word “entropy”, which is central to defining the arrow of time in many-body systems. This relates strongly to probability – a glass shattering into a thousand pieces is highly probable, whereas the pieces spontaneously reassembling is virtually impossible. Past and future are clearly distinguishable in a many-body system.
Alan Kadin
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However, your essay does not mention the word “entropy”, which is central to defining the arrow of time in many-body systems. This relates strongly to probability – a glass shattering into a thousand pieces is highly probable, whereas the pieces spontaneously reassembling is virtually impossible. Past and future are clearly distinguishable in a many-body system.
Alan Kadin
Hi Alan,
Leaving Entropy out was intentional. The essay was not designed to accommodate such an immense region. Time and temperature have a very close relationship in many body particle physics. While this does extrapolate to entropy, it is still undetermined if this is a mathematical artifact or rooted in deeper physical phenomena. Thank you for your comments.
Leaving Entropy out was intentional. The essay was not designed to accommodate such an immense region. Time and temperature have a very close relationship in many body particle physics. While this does extrapolate to entropy, it is still undetermined if this is a mathematical artifact or rooted in deeper physical phenomena. Thank you for your comments.
A very interesting topic actually. Your essay is amazing, I don’t even know if I could ever do something like that. When I had problems writing any paper mainly for college I used https://papersowl.com/fast-essay-writing service since I am not very strong in this area. Fast essay writing service helped me in my physics classes because sometimes I had problems with the correct expression of my thoughts through creative work. Your work is inspiring.
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Timothy,
Wow, thank you for such kind remarks. I am very novice at writing and hope to continually improve. Skill requires significant work.
Thanks again,
Eric
Wow, thank you for such kind remarks. I am very novice at writing and hope to continually improve. Skill requires significant work.
Thanks again,
Eric
Dear Eric,
Very good essay about Time and conundrums around it.
All problems arise from the fact that time is considered as some independent substance that flows (passes), in which you can move forward or backward. In reality Time itself does not exist. There are only motions. Motion is used as the time standard. The time is handy way to compare motions. Universal time (expansion rate of Universe) is irreversible. Local movements can be reversible, i.e., the local time can be reversible. More in: About Arrow of Time. http://viXra.org/abs/1902.0495.
According to the principle of symmetry, the antimatter must have a negative mass which repels ordinary matter. Therefore local time of antiparticles in comparison with Universal time is negative, i.e., direction from Future to Past.
Best regards
Ilgaitis
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Very good essay about Time and conundrums around it.
All problems arise from the fact that time is considered as some independent substance that flows (passes), in which you can move forward or backward. In reality Time itself does not exist. There are only motions. Motion is used as the time standard. The time is handy way to compare motions. Universal time (expansion rate of Universe) is irreversible. Local movements can be reversible, i.e., the local time can be reversible. More in: About Arrow of Time. http://viXra.org/abs/1902.0495.
According to the principle of symmetry, the antimatter must have a negative mass which repels ordinary matter. Therefore local time of antiparticles in comparison with Universal time is negative, i.e., direction from Future to Past.
Best regards
Ilgaitis
Hi Eric, it's great to see an entry from you in the contest! This is actually something I have thought about for many years. I'll have to send you some of the things I've considered. I'm of the opinion that, at least from a pseudo-operationalist standpoint, time-reversal symmetry doesn't make any real sense and only CPT-reversal actually accomplishes what we expect. But CPT as an operation is necessarily anti-unitary which seemingly creates a problem.
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Ian!
Thank you for reading my essay and for your comments. It's always nice to hear others thinking about these things. I've had many of these thoughts since before I went back to school. Growth was certainly necessary, but I have still hold to many of my ideas.
CPT is so strangely necessary for particle physics, yet strongly in disagreement with intuitive notions of time. My advisor has the same view as you hold regarding the importance of T-symmetry but recognizes that others (I can't remember the names he dropped) have disagreed among each other about the two assertions I made in my essay. Thanks and I'd love to hear any ideas when you have time. Hope you are well,
Eric
Thank you for reading my essay and for your comments. It's always nice to hear others thinking about these things. I've had many of these thoughts since before I went back to school. Growth was certainly necessary, but I have still hold to many of my ideas.
CPT is so strangely necessary for particle physics, yet strongly in disagreement with intuitive notions of time. My advisor has the same view as you hold regarding the importance of T-symmetry but recognizes that others (I can't remember the names he dropped) have disagreed among each other about the two assertions I made in my essay. Thanks and I'd love to hear any ideas when you have time. Hope you are well,
Eric
Hi Eric,
I will try to remember to e-mail you some stuff. If I forget, just pester me.
Ian
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I will try to remember to e-mail you some stuff. If I forget, just pester me.
Ian
Eric:
Confusion about the nature of time insures questions about physical reality will continue. And puzzles about physical reality promise puzzling opinions will continue with "time." Examining the nature of what is called time is an excellent way to solve a multitude of physical mysteries.
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Confusion about the nature of time insures questions about physical reality will continue. And puzzles about physical reality promise puzzling opinions will continue with "time." Examining the nature of what is called time is an excellent way to solve a multitude of physical mysteries.
Sherman,
I couldn't agree more. Thank you for reading my essay and for your thoughts!
Eric
I couldn't agree more. Thank you for reading my essay and for your thoughts!
Eric
I find your essay confusing, but doubly so because you commit the heinous sin of casting your argument in the language of flowing or passing time, conflating the passage of time with time asymmetry. Right at the outset you write: 'If you proceed with time moving
forward again, what do you see?' Time moving? Time cannot and does not move. Time simply is. (How fast does your time move? One second per second?) The flow of time is a psychological illusion; time asymmetry is a property of matter, not time.
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forward again, what do you see?' Time moving? Time cannot and does not move. Time simply is. (How fast does your time move? One second per second?) The flow of time is a psychological illusion; time asymmetry is a property of matter, not time.
Professor Davies,
Thank you for your comments. I read your fantastic book "About Time" before I decided to go back to academia. Furthermore, the conversation at the World Science Festival between you and professors Callender, Maudlin, and Tegmark, was very influential to me as an aspiring physicist. I have very much enjoyed reading your works as well as hearing your discussions.
However, I have and continue to disagree with you about your interpretation of time. The "psychological illusion" argument while convenient, does not lead to any new or less paradoxical understanding of time as it exists mathematically in cosmology and particle physics. As I mentioned in the conclusion, the arguments I made in the essay were not novel, friends and colleagues of yours continue to debate the nature of these ideas endlessly.
I am still quite the novice at writing and I appreciate the cautions you are giving me about the language I use.
Thanks for your comments,
Eric
Thank you for your comments. I read your fantastic book "About Time" before I decided to go back to academia. Furthermore, the conversation at the World Science Festival between you and professors Callender, Maudlin, and Tegmark, was very influential to me as an aspiring physicist. I have very much enjoyed reading your works as well as hearing your discussions.
However, I have and continue to disagree with you about your interpretation of time. The "psychological illusion" argument while convenient, does not lead to any new or less paradoxical understanding of time as it exists mathematically in cosmology and particle physics. As I mentioned in the conclusion, the arguments I made in the essay were not novel, friends and colleagues of yours continue to debate the nature of these ideas endlessly.
I am still quite the novice at writing and I appreciate the cautions you are giving me about the language I use.
Thanks for your comments,
Eric
Dear Eric,
I believe the 'flow of time' is a most important concept in physics. Not to be confused with Prof. Davies human subjective flow, which he mentioned above.
Einstein's relativity has taught us that the flow of time varies across space according to the energy embodied in that space. In this way we can conceptualise the flow of time as a sort of time dilation map of the universe which will generally accord with a gravitational map, but with a twist if you entertain the idea of an aether, as the energy of motion will also be integrated into the time-flow map.
Check out my essay which has a section on time reversal, as well as a new slant on presentism.
Best Regards
Lockie Cresswell
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I believe the 'flow of time' is a most important concept in physics. Not to be confused with Prof. Davies human subjective flow, which he mentioned above.
Einstein's relativity has taught us that the flow of time varies across space according to the energy embodied in that space. In this way we can conceptualise the flow of time as a sort of time dilation map of the universe which will generally accord with a gravitational map, but with a twist if you entertain the idea of an aether, as the energy of motion will also be integrated into the time-flow map.
Check out my essay which has a section on time reversal, as well as a new slant on presentism.
Best Regards
Lockie Cresswell
Erik,
Interesting and original approach. Nicely written. Do you consider reversing a reversible physical process to return a state to it's previous condition, has any parallel with time reversal? e.g.
Take a polarising interaction; absorption/re-emission where the polariser electron has some polarity and changes the state interacting with it, which is what's found (i.e. Zeilinger ref in my essay, where it has 'no memory of it's previous state'). An inverse electron polarity, at the photomultiplier for instance, could then return it to it's original state (or the same one repeated just 'square' the new amplitude).
Sorry that got a bit complicated! But do you think states can revert (or keep being changed) while time just ticks on in no particular 'direction'?
I've suggested it can and show in my essay that seems to bring exceptional resolving power!
Nicely done for yours.
Very best
Peter
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Interesting and original approach. Nicely written. Do you consider reversing a reversible physical process to return a state to it's previous condition, has any parallel with time reversal? e.g.
Take a polarising interaction; absorption/re-emission where the polariser electron has some polarity and changes the state interacting with it, which is what's found (i.e. Zeilinger ref in my essay, where it has 'no memory of it's previous state'). An inverse electron polarity, at the photomultiplier for instance, could then return it to it's original state (or the same one repeated just 'square' the new amplitude).
Sorry that got a bit complicated! But do you think states can revert (or keep being changed) while time just ticks on in no particular 'direction'?
I've suggested it can and show in my essay that seems to bring exceptional resolving power!
Nicely done for yours.
Very best
Peter
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