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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

Yutaka Shikano: on 5/19/20 at 0:11am UTC, wrote Dear Cristi, Thank you so much for reading my essay with your...

Cristinel Stoica: on 5/18/20 at 23:32pm UTC, wrote Dear Yutaka, Thank you for the very interesting essay! I enjoyed reading...

Yutaka Shikano: on 5/17/20 at 21:57pm UTC, wrote Dear John, Thank you so much for reading my essay and taking your...

John Vastola: on 5/17/20 at 21:50pm UTC, wrote Neat essay. I never thought about the fact that a quantum random number...

Yutaka Shikano: on 5/17/20 at 10:58am UTC, wrote Hi Ian, On the BB84 protocol, the Alice encoding to prepare the quantum...

Ian Durham: on 5/17/20 at 0:50am UTC, wrote Hi Yutaka! Nice essay. I have a question though. You say in Section 1 that...

Yutaka Shikano: on 5/13/20 at 10:47am UTC, wrote Dear Terry, Thank you so much for your kind and long message. >...

Terry Bollinger: on 5/12/20 at 21:01pm UTC, wrote Dear Yutaka, First, my apologies for being so slow in following up on...


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FQXi FORUM
September 25, 2020

CATEGORY: Undecidability, Uncomputability, and Unpredictability Essay Contest (2019-2020) [back]
TOPIC: Unpredictable Random Number Generator by Yutaka Shikano [refresh]
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Author Yutaka Shikano wrote on Mar. 9, 2020 @ 22:45 GMT
Essay Abstract

The fundamental link between physics and computation leads to an exciting field of quantum computation. Since the birth of the programmable digital computer, random number generators in computers have been developed. In principle, the pseudo random number generators currently implemented in digital computers are predictable. However, a quantum random number generator is employed to ideally generate unpredictable random numbers. In this essay, we explain why a one-qubit quantum computer can be a quantum random number generator and how this leads to justifying the foundations of quantum mechanics.

Author Bio

Yutaka Shikano was born in Yokohama, Japan in 1984. He graduated from Tokyo Institute of Technology with B.Sc. (Hons) (2007), M.Sc. (2009), and D.Sc. (2011) in physics. He became a research associate professor at Institute for Molecular Science, National Institutes of Natural Sciences between 2012 - 2017, a project associate professor at Research Center for Advanced Science and Technology, the University of Tokyo between 2017 - 2018, and at Quantum Computing Center, Keio University since 2018. He is also the affiliated member at Institute for Quantum Studies, Chapman University.

Download Essay PDF File

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Shawn Halayka wrote on Mar. 10, 2020 @ 01:37 GMT
Dear Yutaka,

Your essay was interesting. I'm still a novice when it comes to quantum computing, so I'll have to read your essay again and again.

Have you heard of people using their smoke detector's radioactive nature to get random numbers? :)

- Shawn

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on Mar. 10, 2020 @ 01:56 GMT
Dear Shawn,

Thank you so much for your comment and suggestion. I have already known that radioactive nature is used as quantum random number generator.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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Shawn Halayka replied on Mar. 11, 2020 @ 01:18 GMT
Dear Yutaka,

Have you ever tried the programming language "Q#"?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/quantum/language/

- Shawn

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on Mar. 11, 2020 @ 15:08 GMT
Dear Shawn,

Our methodrology how to extract out hardware? information via the random number generation such as https://arxiv.org/abs/1906.04410 seems to be universal. Therefore, any quantum computers can use our methods.

However, up to now, we have not yet tried the implementation by Q#. But, the programming is too simple in our methods.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Mar. 11, 2020 @ 10:33 GMT
Dear Yutaka

Thank you for your nice introduction to quantum computers and qubits. There are many interesting applications like truly random number generator etc., But why there was no such quantum computer was made till date.......???

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on Mar. 11, 2020 @ 15:13 GMT
Dear Satyavaraou,

Thank you so much for reading my essay. I think that your question why there was no such quantum computer was made till date is good. Honestly speaking, I do not know it. Quantum random number generation is usually implemented by quantum photonics as seen in two good reviews https://www.nature.com/articles/npjqi201621 and https://journals.aps.org/rmp/abstract/10.1103/RevModPhys.89.
015004 . This can be taken as the specific implementation of one-qubit quantum device. However, almost all implementations are not universal in the sense of computation. To inspire the quantum-originated application such like your question, I wrote this essay.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on Apr. 22, 2020 @ 10:17 GMT
Dear Yutaka,

You are exactly correct in saying quantum computers are difficult to realize. Thank you for the reference that there is a "one Qubit" computer, I will try to get that paper.

I hope you will have some CRITICAL examination of my essay... "A properly deciding, Computing and Predicting new theory’s Philosophy".....

Best

=snp

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on Apr. 27, 2020 @ 05:01 GMT
Dear Satyavaraou,

Thank you so much for sharing your essay. I will read it.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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Flavio Del Santo wrote on Mar. 11, 2020 @ 16:27 GMT
Dear Prof. Shikano, thank you for this well-written essay on random number generators. I have just maybe a comment when you speak of the certification of randomness using Bell’s tests, you add: “However, for any randomness expansion protocols, a one-bit random seed is required.” In fact, I think that you need less than a bit, anthough always an initial random element is needed. Recent results [Colbeck, R. and Renner, R., (2012). Free randomness can be amplified. Nature Physics, 8(6), 450.; Pütz, G., Rosset, D., Barnea, T.J., Liang, Y.C. and Gisin, N. (2014). Arbitrarily small amount of measurement independence is sufficient to manifest quantum nonlocality. Physical Review Letters, 113(19), 190402] showed that it is not even necessary to have a single genuinely random bit from the outset, but it is sufficient to introduce an arbitrarily small amount of initial randomness (i.e., of measurement independence) to generate virtually unbounded randomness.

In my essay I also describe new ideas on classical randomness (an argument developed together with Gisin) and I think this could be of interest for you.

I wish you the best for the contest, high rate from my side!

Flavio

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on Mar. 13, 2020 @ 13:12 GMT
Dear Flavio,

Thank you so much for your critical comments.

> In fact, I think that you need less than a bit, anthough always an initial random element is needed.

That's true. However, we still need an initial RANDOM element. Therefore, for the ultimate security purpose, it is not enough for "unpredictable" random number generator.

I will definitely read your essay. I am looking forward to reading your essay.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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John R. Cox wrote on Mar. 25, 2020 @ 02:10 GMT
Prof. Shikano,

You are perhaps young enough as to not be familiar with a once popular decorative lighting fixture generally referred to as a "Lava Lamp". I have occasionally wondered whether they might present a sort of hybrid of both classical and quantum predictability. Design-wise, they are a simple transparent vessel shaped a bit like the chimney of a kerosene lantern but tapering to a rounded closed upper end; filled with a transparent viscous liquid and a viscous colored inclusion that does not mix with the medium. A high intensity light producing a large amount of heat in the base section results in a thermodynamic response by the colored inclusion which forms blobs of gel which rise in the vessel til they cool at the upper end enough to descend. Usually this process produces a variety of number and sizes of colorful blobs constantly changing in shapes and rising and falling to become recombined in a blob being heated at the base section.

Just one would produce a random continuous function which would be complex enough to challenge any classical prediction algorithm. A shelf of 8 lamps would provide a byte of encryption and 8 such shelves would provide a 64 bit 'chessboard' of Time Sync scans of random size-shapes. Would that be in any way physically unpredictable to a degree to be an 'ideally' random number generator? Cordially, jrc

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John R. Cox replied on Mar. 25, 2020 @ 02:34 GMT
Lava Lamp video

youtube.com/watch?/v=L7QQh5lq0

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on Apr. 16, 2020 @ 11:44 GMT
Dear John,

First of all, thank you so much for reading my essay article. Sorry for the late reply to your message.

It is good to hear about your suggestion on "Lava Lamp" as the hybrid quantum-classical random number generator. Surely, there are several approaches to build up the "unpredictable" random number generator. This approach is one of them. As the criticism of your suggestion, the basic assumptions are unclear. The physical motion of the lump element of "Lava Lamp" seems to be classically determined. On the other hand, the lumping behavior relies on quantum mechanics. However, nobody have not yet guaranteed that quantum mechanics is the final theory to explain the Natural phenomena. Therefore, we have not yet known whether the probabilistic structure need to explain our physical behaviors or not. This studies lead to provide a new insight on such understanding of Nature.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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Author Yutaka Shikano wrote on Apr. 16, 2020 @ 11:45 GMT
The reference [20] is updated.

[20] Y. Shikano, K. Tamura, and R. Raymond, Detecting Temporal Correlation via Quantum Random Number Generation, Electronic Proceedings in Theoretical Computer Science 315, 18 - 25 (2020).

The line is available from http://dx.doi.org/10.4204/EPTCS.315.2.

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Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on May. 6, 2020 @ 01:45 GMT
Dear Professor Yutaka Shikano

Thank you for reading my essay and for well thought comments.

I will supplement any doubts / questions, no problems...

I was working on this Dynamic Universe Model for the last forty years under the guidance given by Maa VAK (She is Hindu Goddess Saraswathi for wisdom and education). Almost all papers are important, all results are important, many...

view entire post


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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on May. 8, 2020 @ 09:30 GMT
Dear Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta,

Thank you so much for sharing your experience and voting my essay as well. Let me give my opinion on this essay contest. In this essay contest, the goals are

-- Encourage and support rigorous, innovative, and influential thinking about foundational questions in physics and cosmology;

-- Identify and reward top thinkers in foundational questions; and,

-- Provide an arena for discussion and exchange of ideas regarding foundational questions.

I think that our essays and comments are pursued to these goals.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on May. 12, 2020 @ 08:27 GMT
Thank you Yutaka,

Our essays have so many similarities, I rated your essay the best. Now the rating is 7.3 the seventh one... Please check mail...

Hope you will rate me too

Best

=snp

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on May. 12, 2020 @ 08:30 GMT
Dear Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta,

Thank you so much for rating my essay. I have already voted your essay. Good luck.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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Jason W Steinmetz wrote on May. 7, 2020 @ 20:03 GMT
Your essay was quite short and direct and enjoyable to read. And you raise a very interesting issue. I think the concept of randomness is certainly a fundamental issue.

As you correctly pointed out, modern computers cannot create a truly random number. Thus, if a truly random could be generated using quantum theory then that would certainly be a very interesting result; should I dare to even call it a breakthrough?

However, this immediately leads to some questions. How could we even know, let alone verify, that the number(s) that were generated are, indeed, truly random? Would we use a frequentist characterization of randomness (e.g., von Mises)? Or a "patternless" characterization of randomness (e.g., Chaitin)? Or would the generation of something truly random itself shed light on this question and thus help to define what actually is truly random?

(Note: I skimmed your arXiv paper and thus I realize that you considered both perspectives. However, is it not possible for a series of truly random numbers to not be equally distributed or for some kind of pattern to be perceived in the series? This reminds me of the Surprise Test Paradox. If it is thought that a pattern is impossible then the generation of a pattern would be the most unpredictable outcome.)

All interesting questions. I wish you well in the contest.

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on May. 8, 2020 @ 09:39 GMT
Dear Jason W Steinmetz,

Thank you so much for reading my essay and sharing your comments.

> Thus, if a truly random could be generated using quantum theory then that would certainly be a very interesting result; should I dare to even call it a breakthrough?

I agree with this breakthrough. In our recent paper, we discussed the types of the random numbers, which call the product randomness and process randomness. In these classifications, we have to discuss what the true randomness is. On the Surprise Test Paradox, thank you so much for pointing out this paradox connected to the true random numbers.

It is noted that I would like to discuss the difference between the true random number generation and the unpredictable random number generation. In my feeling, which is not exactly discussed under my current knowledge, this seems to be different. In the further research, I would like to study this difference.

Thank you so much for your comments during the quarantine time of the COVID-19.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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Michael James Kewming wrote on May. 10, 2020 @ 20:22 GMT
Hi Yutaka,

Thank you for the wonderful historical piece on random number generators. I certainly agree with your final quote that the ultimate application of a one-qubit quantum computer is to generate random numbers. How do you you think this would apply to qudits? For example, if I had a ququart, then I could the 4D subspace into 2 x 2 qubit subspace and essentially generate a two qubit random string.

What do you think if you were to generate the probabilistic seed from an external environment? There have been several Bell experiments where the physicists used thermal light emitted from stars to generate their randomness in the experiment.

I hope you get a chance to look at my essay. We share several very similar ideas. In my essay, I consider randomness as arising from an unobserved environment as limiting the description of a Turing machine to indeterministic theories.

Thanks,

Michael

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on May. 11, 2020 @ 01:18 GMT
Hi Michael,

Thank you so much for your interest on my essay.

> How do you you think this would apply to qudits?

A la the non-binary representation of the random number generation, qudit case should be applied to the "d"git representation of the random numbers. From "d"git representation to the binary one, several mathematical deterministic functions are well known.

> What do you think if you were to generate the probabilistic seed from an external environment?

This question leads to what an external environment is. As mentioned in my essay, N-body environment is essentially predictable. Maybe, this is not efficiently computed. On the formal definition of "environment", this is not controlled. On the other hand, my previous statement seems to be contradicted. Therefore, its boundary is wobbly.

Finally, I enjoyed reading your essay and commented at your essay thread.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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Terry Bollinger wrote on May. 12, 2020 @ 21:01 GMT
Dear Yutaka,

First, my apologies for being so slow in following up on reading your essay. I've been away from FQXi entirely for about the last week, actually.

I quite like both of your essays, as well as your interesting questions about black hole information loss at my essay thread.

Your 2013 essay 2013 essay on an "operational" derivation of physical laws strikes me...

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on May. 13, 2020 @ 10:47 GMT
Dear Terry,

Thank you so much for your kind and long message.

> Anyone looking at such a bit generation process from the viewpoint of classical physics will, pretty much by definition, never have sufficient bit resources, even in the entire classical universe, to calculate what the quantum-conservation outcome will be.

I think that physical random number generator such as the chaotic one is the good example. This is also physically implemented. However, my research direction is now following this line.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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Member Ian Durham wrote on May. 17, 2020 @ 00:50 GMT
Hi Yutaka! Nice essay. I have a question though. You say in Section 1 that even QKD can be rendered ineffective using RNG manipulation. In the BB84 protocol, Alice begins by creating two random binary strings. I guess I never gave much thought to how these strings were generated, but let's assume that they are generated classically. Are you saying that this is how to break BB84? So if I understand what you're saying, you could hack BB84 if you could interfere with Alice's attempt to create these "random" strings by RNG manipulation. Then the strings would no longer be truly random and you could manipulate them however you wanted. Then it wouldn't matter if there was an eavesdropper because the original strings would have been manipulated. Am I understanding this correctly?

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on May. 17, 2020 @ 10:58 GMT
Hi Ian,

On the BB84 protocol, the Alice encoding to prepare the quantum state and the Bob choice of the measurement basis should be random. When Eve hacked these choices in advance, Eve measured this measurement basis. Thereafter, Eve should send the known quantum state to Bob. This difference is often called the private randomness and shared randomness. On the BB84 protocol and other QKD protocols, the shared randomness can be achieved under the assumption of the private randomness. In my essay, I would like to focus on the discussions of the private randomness.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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John Joseph Vastola wrote on May. 17, 2020 @ 21:50 GMT
Neat essay. I never thought about the fact that a quantum random number generator is not subject to RNG manipulation---but in hindsight it seems perfectly obvious! I also liked hearing about the early history of computing. It seems that giants like von Neumann truly did study everything under the sun.

One question. I am sympathetic to the view that quantum mechanics involves true randomness, i.e. that there is not some underlying deterministic theory controlling the probabilities we observe (and it seems you are sympathetic to this view as well). Of course, some people think these deterministic theories (e.g. Bohmian mechanics) are plausible. Do you think studying real quantum number generators (and whether they are 'truly' random) will help shed light on which interpretation is most reasonable? Or do you think such a question is beyond experiment, since the predictions of these interpretations usually all match? I'm not sure what to think on this topic myself.

John

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on May. 17, 2020 @ 21:57 GMT
Dear John,

Thank you so much for reading my essay and taking your interest. On your question,

> Do you think studying real quantum number generators (and whether they are 'truly' random) will help shed light on which interpretation is most reasonable?

I think that such studies should be the research question. To pursue answering the question, I strongly believe that our understanding on quantum mechanics should be deepened.

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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Cristinel Stoica wrote on May. 18, 2020 @ 23:32 GMT
Dear Yutaka,

Thank you for the very interesting essay! I enjoyed reading about the history of computing, with focus on the PRNG and its weakness due to its predictability, and then about the advent of QNRG. I liked the closing remark, "A quantum random number generator is an ultimate application of a one-qubit quantum computer". Great essay, I wish you the best in the contest!

Cheers,

Cristi

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Author Yutaka Shikano replied on May. 19, 2020 @ 00:11 GMT
Dear Cristi,

Thank you so much for reading my essay with your appreciation. I also hope to be the best for the FQXi contest!!

Best wishes,

Yutaka

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