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Undecidability, Uncomputability, and Unpredictability Essay Contest
December 24, 2019 - April 24, 2020
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What Is “Fundamental”
October 28, 2017 to January 22, 2018
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Wandering Towards a Goal
How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?
December 2, 2016 to March 3, 2017
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Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics
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How Should Humanity Steer the Future?
January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014
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It From Bit or Bit From It
March 25 - June 28, 2013
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Questioning the Foundations
Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?
May 24 - August 31, 2012
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Is Reality Digital or Analog?
November 2010 - February 2011
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What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?
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The Nature of Time
August - December 2008
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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

David Brown: on 2/23/18 at 7:55am UTC, wrote "... the Big Bang as singularity is a conundrum for physics ..." According...

Steven Andresen: on 2/22/18 at 6:28am UTC, wrote Dear Ng Xin Zhao If you are looking for another essay to read and rate in...

Satyavarapu Gupta: on 2/14/18 at 2:01am UTC, wrote Dear Xin Zhao Ng It is wonderful that you are trying to combine Physics...

Xin Zhao Ng: on 2/10/18 at 23:29pm UTC, wrote Thanks for all the clarifications! It seems that just reading lots of...

Xin Zhao Ng: on 2/10/18 at 23:27pm UTC, wrote Sorry, breaking my own rule, here are some clarifications. Mathematics...

Lee Bloomquist: on 2/6/18 at 3:17am UTC, wrote entropy -> information -> it=(bit, it) -> a "non-wellFounded set"

Juan Ramón González Álvarez: on 2/4/18 at 15:21pm UTC, wrote Equations looked ok in the preview. Both are broken in the final post....

Juan Ramón González Álvarez: on 2/4/18 at 15:15pm UTC, wrote The association of entropy with disorder is misleading. First, because it...


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FQXi FORUM
May 28, 2020

CATEGORY: FQXi Essay Contest - Spring, 2017 [back]
TOPIC: Entropy as a measure of Fundamentality by Ng Xin Zhao [refresh]
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Author Xin Zhao Ng wrote on Feb. 2, 2018 @ 19:00 GMT
Essay Abstract

A viewpoint of entropic measurement of a theory as it’s measure of fundamentality is proposed. This idea came about from philosophical musing with Buddhist fundamental principle of dependent origination. Information being kept track of by the theory, the principles which compacts the form of the theory, and the range of validity of the theory are examined with examples in Physics. These form the basis of measuring a theory’s entropy. A map of physics theories and principles is drawn out to provide the big picture of fundamentality. The implications of such a viewpoint is listed out and is found to be very useful. In particular, the search for the theory of everything can be known to be found when the second law of thermodynamics is absorbed by the theory and it keeps track of every possible information, leaving nothing to coarse graining. It is up to the work of science to show if reductionism is true by rigorous linking up of all knowledge down to Physics. Failing that, each field of knowledge can be said to have their own fundamental theories.

Author Bio

Ng Xin Zhao has two degrees, in Physics and Buddhism. Having done several Physics research in his undergraduate days, he is still actively keeping up with progress in Physics and read many popular Physics books. He is writing a book on Physics and Buddhism so that the field is fair and true to Physics. He is also an avid fan of science fiction, including Doctor Who, who has a cameo in the essay. Currently he is a full time spiritual practitioner.

Download Essay PDF File

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Ajay Pokhrel wrote on Feb. 3, 2018 @ 04:58 GMT
Hello Xin,

A well-written essay. This is a unique thought that theories could be like entropy which would go on dividing from lower entropy theory. If I describe my essay in term of yours then 'Mathematics is lower entropy' or the lower entropy theory should be perfectly mathematical.

You have some views on Buddhism. Being born in a country where Buddha was born, I really appreciate your message and viewpoints. In fact, sometimes I try to relate science to religion. For instance: It is believed that doing sin result in bad future which correlates to Newtons Third law "To every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Anyway, I enjoyed reading your essay and wish you a good luck in the competition.

Meanwhile, I invite you to my essay Is mathematics Fundamental? and discuss your viewpoints in my essay.

Kind Regards

Ajay Pokharel

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Author Xin Zhao Ng replied on Feb. 10, 2018 @ 23:27 GMT
Sorry, breaking my own rule, here are some clarifications.

Mathematics alone doesn't care for experimental data, so it doesn't count as a physical theory. I think of them as tools.

Buddha was born in Nepal, I was born in Malaysia. Unwholsome kamma is not the same concept as sin. There is no damnation by some being, but it's a universal law of moral cause and effect. Newtonian third law is an inaccurate way to make analogy with kamma. Newtonian third law posits the same force reaction, kamma results can be bigger or lesser depending on conditions. Newtonian third law has forces act on two opposing bodies, for kamma the action and result are by the same body, and fall on the same body.

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Dizhechko Boris Semyonovich wrote on Feb. 3, 2018 @ 15:44 GMT
Dear NG Xin Zhao, the fundamental must be simple, understandable and save our thinking, as you say to have a low entropy. This is the New Cartesian Physics, which is based on the identity of space and matter of Descartes, which wants to be the theory of everything. You write: If a fundamental theory means the theory that which all other theories can be derived from, it is the ultimate theory of everything (TOE), then certainly it should describe the Big Bang or if there is one at all or if there is anything before it. Look at my essay, FQXi Fundamental in New Cartesian Physics by Dizhechko Boris Semyonovich Where I showed how radically the physics can change if it follows this principle. Evaluate and leave your comment there. Then I'll give you a rating. Do not allow New Cartesian Physics go away into nothingness.

Sincerely, Dizhechko Boris Semyonovich.

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Joe Fisher wrote on Feb. 3, 2018 @ 15:45 GMT
Dear Ng Xin Zhao,

FQXi.org is clearly seeking to confirm whether Nature is fundamental.

Reliable evidence exists that proves that the surface of the earth was formed millions of years before man and his utterly complex finite informational systems ever appeared on that surface. It logically follows that Nature must have permanently devised the only single physical construct of earth allowable.

All objects, be they solid, liquid, or vaporous have always had a visible surface. This is because the real Universe must consist only of one single unified VISIBLE infinite surface occurring eternally in one single infinite dimension that am always illuminated mostly by finite non-surface light.

Only the truth can set you free.

Joe Fisher, Realist

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post approved


Author Xin Zhao Ng wrote on Feb. 4, 2018 @ 06:26 GMT
Dear all,

I would wish to only reply to the comments after the community voting period has ended at the end of February. This is to enable honest commentary feedback and honest voting not based on trading of favours, but on the merit of the ideas inside the essays.

Do keep on commenting here if you like, I shall reply it possibily in April as I will be in full retreat mode in March. Thanks for your honest feedback.

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Juan Ramón González Álvarez wrote on Feb. 4, 2018 @ 15:15 GMT
The association of entropy with disorder is misleading. First, because it is based in the lack of distintion between the concept of physical entropy associated to thermodynamics and the several informational entropy concepts found in the theory of information. Second, because it gives rise to that belief that a system always evolves irreversible towards a more disordered state. Mix two inmiscible...

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Author Xin Zhao Ng replied on Feb. 10, 2018 @ 23:29 GMT
Thanks for all the clarifications! It seems that just reading lots of popular physics books cannot cover for a masters education in physics to know these detailed stuffs.

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Juan Ramón González Álvarez wrote on Feb. 4, 2018 @ 15:21 GMT
Equations looked ok in the preview. Both are broken in the final post. Weird!

I try a second time (both look ok in the preview)



and



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Lee Bloomquist wrote on Feb. 6, 2018 @ 03:17 GMT
entropy -> information -> it=(bit, it) -> a "non-wellFounded set"

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Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Feb. 14, 2018 @ 02:01 GMT
Dear Xin Zhao Ng

It is wonderful that you are trying to combine Physics with ancient Buddism..."A viewpoint of entropic measurement of a theory as it’s measure of fundamentality is proposed. This idea came about from philosophical musing with Buddhist fundamental principle of dependent origination. Information being kept track of by the theory, the principles which compacts the form of...

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Steven Andresen wrote on Feb. 22, 2018 @ 06:28 GMT
Dear Ng Xin Zhao

If you are looking for another essay to read and rate in the final days of the contest, will you consider mine please? I read all essays from those who comment on my page, and if I cant rate an essay highly, then I don’t rate them at all. Infact I haven’t issued a rating lower that ten. So you have nothing to lose by having me read your essay, and everything to...

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David Brown wrote on Feb. 23, 2018 @ 07:55 GMT
"... the Big Bang as singularity is a conundrum for physics ..." According to Fredkin, singularities, infinities, infinitesimals, perfectly continuous variables, and local sources of randomness are false hypotheses contrary to nature's reality. Do Einstein's field equations need at least 3 corrections? (1) Is prevention of the Big Bang singularity necessary? (2) Is prevention of infinite time necessary? (3) Is it necessary to modify the field equations to explain Milgrom's MOND? Google "kroupa milgrom" and "mcgaugh milgrom".

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