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What Is “Fundamental”
October 28, 2017 to January 22, 2018
Sponsored by the Fetzer Franklin Fund and The Peter & Patricia Gruber Foundation
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Wandering Towards a Goal
How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?
December 2, 2016 to March 3, 2017
Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.
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Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics
Contest Partners: Nanotronics Imaging, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, and The John Templeton Foundation
Media Partner: Scientific American

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How Should Humanity Steer the Future?
January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014
Contest Partners: Jaan Tallinn, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, The John Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American
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It From Bit or Bit From It
March 25 - June 28, 2013
Contest Partners: The Gruber Foundation, J. Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American
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Questioning the Foundations
Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?
May 24 - August 31, 2012
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, SubMeta, and Scientific American
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Is Reality Digital or Analog?
November 2010 - February 2011
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation and Scientific American
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What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?
May - October 2009
Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams
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The Nature of Time
August - December 2008
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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

James Rose: on 2/26/18 at 20:26pm UTC, wrote Hello, readers of my FQXi essay. Does anyone have any specific thoughts or...

James Rose: on 2/22/18 at 18:27pm UTC, wrote David, Thank you for asking. First, please understand I am not a high...

David Brown: on 2/22/18 at 10:50am UTC, wrote "Even failures and errors effectively re-direct research towards...

James Rose: on 2/22/18 at 1:35am UTC, wrote Many thanks to FQXi 2018 contest readers - supporters and questioners of my...

James Rose: on 2/18/18 at 8:00am UTC, wrote An additional discussion point. Physics, via Dirac and Planck and...

James Rose: on 2/16/18 at 23:37pm UTC, wrote Juan, I am grateful you are questioning certain content of my essay. ...

Juan Ramón González Álvarez: on 2/16/18 at 20:21pm UTC, wrote Extensions of QM and relativity have been developed for a while and they...

Steven Andresen: on 2/16/18 at 9:15am UTC, wrote You understand me James! Thank heavens somebody finally does. If you were...


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FQXi FORUM
August 25, 2019

CATEGORY: FQXi Essay Contest - Spring, 2017 [back]
TOPIC: Physical Fundamentals, Math Fundamentals, Idea Fundamentals – Have We Spotted Them All? by James N Rose [refresh]
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Author James N Rose wrote on Feb. 1, 2018 @ 21:37 GMT
Essay Abstract

The author intuits that the goal of this essay contest question is to shed possible light on a practical, if not totally new, line of thinking, with improved understanding about existence. As complicated, vast and accomplished as human knowledge is, and our explorations have achieved, it is indeed possible we might have missed some other “essential(s)”, and that once we become alert to them, we can move beyond the seeming re-iterating set of ideas that traditional perspectives and perceptions have us mired in, with unresolved problems and problematic conceptual disjunctions, to break out from that set of un-resolved issues, and advance humanity and sentience beyond temporary recursive inertia.

Author Bio

James N Rose is a General Systems theorist, prior member of International Society for Systems Sciences. Now 70 years old, he has presented internationally since 1996. Founder of Ceptual Institute. Author of the "Integrity Paradigm" (found on web.archive.org)

Download Essay PDF File

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Joe Fisher wrote on Feb. 2, 2018 @ 21:45 GMT
Dear James N Rose,

FQXi.org is clearly seeking to confirm whether Nature is fundamental.

Reliable evidence exists that proves that the surface of the earth was formed millions of years before man and his utterly complex finite informational systems ever appeared on that surface. It logically follows that Nature must have permanently devised the only single physical construct of earth allowable.

All objects, be they solid, liquid, or vaporous have always had a visible surface. This is because the real Universe must consist only of one single unified VISIBLE infinite surface occurring eternally in one single infinite dimension that am always illuminated mostly by finite non-surface light.

Only the truth can set you free.

Joe Fisher, Realist

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Author James N Rose replied on Feb. 2, 2018 @ 23:33 GMT
Thank you Joe. Interesting remarks. I am not sure what words or ideas posted by FQXi representatives enabled you to 'clearly' specify their intention in posing the current essay theme. If you read my essay, you'll note that I cite specific contest criteria verbage, and drew a different understanding.

In reading your remarks, I don't see forces or energy of topology .. which are also...

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Armin Nikkhah Shirazi wrote on Feb. 6, 2018 @ 00:46 GMT
Dear James,

Your essay conveys quite clearly that despite your 70 years on this planet, you have not lost your child-like curiosity and excitement about the world around us. That is wonderful, for so many people do lose it as they get older. Some specific comments:

1. I was previously a little familiar with Whorf (his famous "snow" example), but the quoted paragraphs helped me form...

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Armin Nikkhah Shirazi replied on Feb. 6, 2018 @ 00:50 GMT
Unfortunately there is a glitch with the formatting: each time a new line is supposed to start, it inserts an "n" instead and just continues on the same line.

Sorry!

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Author James N Rose replied on Feb. 7, 2018 @ 22:59 GMT
Thank you Armin, I appreciate your remarks.

.

Regarding Whorf, it was my impression that too mush was made of the smaller points he discussed, such as words~labels in different languages; also, his notion that language imposes itself on ideas formation. He died too early and no linguists of the era understood his broader appreciation that experience creates (enables) language,...

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Author James N Rose replied on Feb. 7, 2018 @ 23:06 GMT
author .. please excuse the typo first sentence .. corrected: "too much was .."

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Steven Andresen wrote on Feb. 6, 2018 @ 05:01 GMT
Dear James N Rose

Just letting you know that I am making a start on reading of your essay, and hope that you might also take a glance over mine please? I look forward to the sharing of thoughtful opinion. Congratulations on your essay rating as it stands, and best of luck for the contest conclusion.

My essay is titled

“Darwinian Universal Fundamental Origin”. It stands as a novel test for whether a natural organisational principle can serve a rationale, for emergence of complex systems of physics and cosmology. I will be interested to have my effort judged on both the basis of prospect and of novelty.

Thank you & kind regards

Steven Andresen

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Author James N Rose replied on Feb. 7, 2018 @ 23:03 GMT
Thank you Steven, I will seek out and read your paper. James

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Steven Andresen wrote on Feb. 11, 2018 @ 04:56 GMT
James

Thank you for your message. I haven't yet read your essay, however as my message said, your essay is on my read list.

A biologist! and you've read my essay which advocates that the process responsible for generation of biological complexity, is also potentially responsible for generation of universal complexities, the character and complexity of matter, structure and process....

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Author James N Rose replied on Feb. 11, 2018 @ 05:27 GMT
Steve, I have not rated your paper yet. Because I was hoping to have conversation with you first, and you have opened that door. I do not know how posting notifications are done (I am new to FQXi), so I will simply alert you here, under my paper, and then answer your questions at your paper's listing.

Just know I have positive regards for your search and attempt to show a unification relation for the diverse fields. It is a very important effort, in my view.

James

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Steven Andresen replied on Feb. 12, 2018 @ 06:14 GMT
James

You honour me with an exceptional message. I am fascinated by circumstances of Darwinian evolution, and account of the following is certainly an interesting account.

“changes in how vein blood leaves the brain was responsible for helping australopithecine primates to stand erect, and lead to the evolution of homo sapiens.”

Darwinian evolution is an explanation that...

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Steven Andresen replied on Feb. 13, 2018 @ 05:55 GMT
James

I have read your essay twice, and you receive a top rating from me. I believe it would be in your best interest to have more people read it, you might simply ask them too, and you will be rewarded with a good rating. I am sure. I think your first contest submission is bound to be a great success. And you will be on my “too read list” should you choose to enter again next year. ...

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John Brodix Merryman wrote on Feb. 11, 2018 @ 22:54 GMT
James,

You put a lot of feeling in a subject that often seems locked into frames.

I think math and physics, for all the complexity, ignores basic conceptual facts. To list a few:

Given we experience reality as flashes of cognition, we think this sequencing of events, called time, must be fundamental. Physics codifies it as measures of duration, between events. Logically...

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John Brodix Merryman replied on Feb. 11, 2018 @ 22:59 GMT
Center point, not counterpoint.

Darn spellcheck.

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Author James N Rose replied on Feb. 12, 2018 @ 00:49 GMT
Thank you John, for describing your 'another point of view'. (and I read your remarks with "center point' correction in context :-) ).

I've read through several - definitely not "all" - essay contributions, and it is apparent to me that we have all had different analysis histories and viewpoints.

No one of us is aware of all possible data and information, so it is good to present...

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John Brodix Merryman replied on Feb. 13, 2018 @ 01:18 GMT
Thank you James.

It is always informative to bat ideas around and triangulate the connections and gaps.

These contests can be a bit overwhelming though, with the variety of different thought processes at work.

Personally I only got into studying physics as a way to better understand society, since it was evident there are physical dynamics at work, of which only particular details gain attention.

If there is one takeaway for understanding people and society, it's thermodynamics. This might seem a bit obscure, but remember that we did evolve in an environment entirely dominated by thermodynamic processes, just that in our more lost moments, it is a bit like leaves in the wind and when we are most sure, it is like a volcano, bursting through the crust.

As I've told various kids over the years, growing up is like grass pushing up through the concrete. Then one day, you wake up and you're the concrete and there is this damn grass trying to push you out of the way. Cycles.

While this might all seem totally off topic, it does tie into how my day has gone and that is what such encounters are about. A leaf off my tree.

Regards,

John

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Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Feb. 13, 2018 @ 20:47 GMT
Respected Prof James N Rose,

Wonderful ideas about existence , you have wonderful writing style and flow. You wrote a nice essay at this age, keep it up...

By the way…Here in my essay energy to mass conversion is proposed...……..….. yours is very nice essay best wishes …. I highly appreciate hope your essay ….You may please spend some of the valuable time on Dynamic...

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Juan Ramón González Álvarez wrote on Feb. 16, 2018 @ 20:21 GMT
Extensions of QM and relativity have been developed for a while and they rely on new mathematical structures. For instance most of the recent work in formulating irreversible quantum mechanics relies on extensions of the Hilbert space structure of orthodox time-reversible quantum mechanics.

There some highly vague and text-only based description of some "exponential numberline is distinct from the base numberline" and assumption that "all exponential relations are 'dimensional'" which is saying nothing really.

"Imagine now any set of data measurements, accumulated randomly over time.

The data is more noise than patterned information. But then we accumulate and reorganize the data, to try to find ‘information’. And lo and behold, we often find patterns and associations in the re-grouped data. Such as statistical Gaussian bell curves, for one kind. But what have we done, practically, in

such re-groupings? We have -removed- the time ‘dimension’ of‘ sequence of data measures’". When I take a sequence of time-ordered random data and I eliminate the noise, the resulting data continues being time ordered. I have not eliminated the time dimension, just the noise. We do not gain information by data space. For instance in the above example the noise contains information is not present in the non-noisy part of the data.

"However, to the point, as the physicist Thad Roberts words the situation, there are “interpretations of quantum mechanics that believe that the statistical nature of quantum mechanics is due to an ignorance of the underlying more fundamental real dynamics”. It is not an interpretation. It can be demonstrated the wavefunction in quantumm mechanics describes an ensemble. Precisely those "statistical renderings" are the ones behind most myths and misunderstandings of quantum theory.

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Author James N Rose replied on Feb. 16, 2018 @ 23:37 GMT
Juan,

I am grateful you are questioning certain content of my essay. Reading your remarks, you quote from the essay, then conclude:

"It is not an interpretation. It can be demonstrated the wave function in quantum mechanics describes an ensemble. Precisely those "statistical renderings" are the ones behind most myths and misunderstandings of quantum theory."

Juan, it was not...

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Author James N Rose replied on Feb. 18, 2018 @ 08:00 GMT
An additional discussion point.

Physics, via Dirac and Planck and Heisenberg, have hit an -apparently- experimental boundary limit regarding deep measurements of 'fundamental' events, architecture and processes of nature.

I understand that ensemble parameters are a limit state for describing active dynamic systems with inherent ongoing motions - that are happening beyond the...

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Author James N Rose wrote on Feb. 22, 2018 @ 01:35 GMT
Many thanks to FQXi 2018 contest readers - supporters and questioners of my essay's ideas - who have posted and made their opinions known. All ideas are important to make public and consider. I feel sad that I see my voting number slowly lowering, but no post or explanation is made to explain why. Science needs open ideas and explicit counter ideas.

I have had wonderful debate...

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David Brown wrote on Feb. 22, 2018 @ 10:50 GMT
"Even failures and errors effectively re-direct research towards correctness and truth." Who decides what are the failures and what are the errors? According to Pavel Kroupa, "Science is not a democracy." According to the Gravity Probe B science team, their 4 ultra-precise gyroscope malfunctioned in a surprisingly predictable way. My guess is that the 4 ultra-precise gyroscopes functioned correctly and confirmed what I call the alleged "Fernández-Rañada-Milgrom effect." Even if I am wrong I think that the Gravity Probe B science team should sponsor an effort to identify what precisely went wrong in the fabrication process of the 4 ultra-precise gyroscopes. Should failures and errors be carefully studied to avoid similar failures and errors in future experiments and investigations?

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Author James N Rose replied on Feb. 22, 2018 @ 18:27 GMT
David, Thank you for asking.

First, please understand I am not a high physics specialist, I am a thorough Analyst of Systems Generally. So I study comparative properties and dynamics that are known and modeled in diverse kinds of systems (differently levels of complexity and organization) - especially to appreciate shared (fundamental) aspects, they display.

An example is a piece...

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Author James N Rose wrote on Feb. 26, 2018 @ 20:26 GMT
Hello, readers of my FQXi essay.

Does anyone have any specific thoughts or reaction on my proposition that mathematics might be missing some additional important relationships vis a vis base numberline and exponential numberline? Or, that exponents generally could embody dimensional characteristics?

Calculus integration~differentiation accomplishes exponential transforms (typically...

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