Search FQXi


If you are aware of an interesting new academic paper (that has been published in a peer-reviewed journal or has appeared on the arXiv), a conference talk (at an official professional scientific meeting), an external blog post (by a professional scientist) or a news item (in the mainstream news media), which you think might make an interesting topic for an FQXi blog post, then please contact us at forums@fqxi.org with a link to the original source and a sentence about why you think that the work is worthy of discussion. Please note that we receive many such suggestions and while we endeavour to respond to them, we may not be able to reply to all suggestions.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Contests Home

Current Essay Contest


Previous Contests

Wandering Towards a Goal
How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?
December 2, 2016 to March 3, 2017
Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fnd.
read/discusswinners

Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics
Contest Partners: Nanotronics Imaging, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, and The John Templeton Foundation
Media Partner: Scientific American

read/discusswinners

How Should Humanity Steer the Future?
January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014
Contest Partners: Jaan Tallinn, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, The John Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American
read/discusswinners

It From Bit or Bit From It
March 25 - June 28, 2013
Contest Partners: The Gruber Foundation, J. Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American
read/discusswinners

Questioning the Foundations
Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?
May 24 - August 31, 2012
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, SubMeta, and Scientific American
read/discusswinners

Is Reality Digital or Analog?
November 2010 - February 2011
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation and Scientific American
read/discusswinners

What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?
May - October 2009
Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams
read/discusswinners

The Nature of Time
August - December 2008
read/discusswinners

Forum Home
Introduction
Terms of Use

Order posts by:
 chronological order
 most recent first

Posts by the author are highlighted in orange; posts by FQXi Members are highlighted in blue.

By using the FQXi Forum, you acknowledge reading and agree to abide by the Terms of Use

 RSS feed | RSS help
RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC


RECENT FORUM POSTS

Thomas Ray: "(reposted in correct thread) Lorraine, Nah. That's nothing like my view...." in 2015 in Review: New...

Lorraine Ford: "Clearly “law-of-nature” relationships and associated numbers represent..." in Physics of the Observer -...

Lee Bloomquist: "Information Channel. An example from Jon Barwise. At the workshop..." in Physics of the Observer -...

Lee Bloomquist: "Please clarify. I just tried to put a simple model of an observer in the..." in Alternative Models of...

Lee Bloomquist: "Footnote...for the above post, the one with the equation existence =..." in Alternative Models of...

Thomas Ray: "In fact, symmetry is the most pervasive physical principle that exists. ..." in “Spookiness”...

Thomas Ray: "It's easy to get wound around the axle with black hole thermodynamics,..." in “Spookiness”...

Joe Fisher: "It seems to have escaped Wolpert’s somewhat limited attention that no two..." in Inferring the Limits on...


RECENT ARTICLES
click titles to read articles

The Complexity Conundrum
Resolving the black hole firewall paradox—by calculating what a real astronaut would compute at the black hole's edge.

Quantum Dream Time
Defining a ‘quantum clock’ and a 'quantum ruler' could help those attempting to unify physics—and solve the mystery of vanishing time.

Our Place in the Multiverse
Calculating the odds that intelligent observers arise in parallel universes—and working out what they might see.

Sounding the Drums to Listen for Gravity’s Effect on Quantum Phenomena
A bench-top experiment could test the notion that gravity breaks delicate quantum superpositions.

Watching the Observers
Accounting for quantum fuzziness could help us measure space and time—and the cosmos—more accurately.


FQXi FORUM
January 19, 2018

CATEGORY: The Nature of Time Essay Contest (2008) [back]
TOPIC: Informational Time by Gunn Alex Quznetsov [refresh]
Bookmark and Share
Login or create account to post reply or comment.

Gunn Alex Quznetsov wrote on Nov. 14, 2008 @ 15:29 GMT
Essay Abstract

Any information system carries in itself it's unidirectioned and irreversible "time" and a metric "space", bounded with this "time" by the Poincare divisible group transformations.

Author Bio

Gunn Quznetsov, Chelyabinsk State University, Chelyabinsk, Ural, Russia

Download Essay PDF File




Don Limuti wrote on Nov. 15, 2008 @ 07:58 GMT
Gunn,

I like your essay.

Can I paraphase one of your points (without rigor) as:

1. A clock (tic) is always associated with information.

2. The information always contains a counter in some form

like a digital clock display.

3. As events occur the event counter always goes up.

4. The increasing counts are the direction of time and the

larger count numbers represent an increase in entropy.

What do you think? Thanks, Don L.




Gunn wrote on Nov. 15, 2008 @ 08:44 GMT
to Don L,

Good Day.

Thanks very much.

1. Yes.

2. I do not know.

3. Idem

4. Idem

Your Gunn




Brian Beverly wrote on Nov. 16, 2008 @ 00:59 GMT
Your paper was short and to the point. I don't know what your mathematical background is but have you used Shannon's information theory for your idea? Information theory is connected with entropy and has entanglement applications.




Gunn wrote on Nov. 16, 2008 @ 03:23 GMT
to Brian Beverly:

No, I did not use Shannon's information theory.

Gunn




F. Le Rouge wrote on Nov. 16, 2008 @ 20:05 GMT
Your 'informational Time' is what I call 'Ideology of Material or Nature'. It is coming from the analogy made between Light and Time by R. Descartes, C. Huygens, I. Newton.

For example light of the Moon is for Descartes the distance between Earth and Moon. From this 'information' he is deducing instant-Time or absolute-Time. Pandora's box is open.

'Entropy' is just an approximation; the homologic approximation of Symmetry approximation. 'Entropy' is static as symmetry does even if it gives the illusion of dynamics.




Gunn wrote on Nov. 17, 2008 @ 02:53 GMT
to F. Le Rouge

Thanks

Gunn




F. Le Rouge wrote on Nov. 19, 2008 @ 13:16 GMT
Could you tell me Gunn, between a French and a Russian, do you think like me that 'informational Time' that is founding 'Quanta Physics' and Einstein's theories is just bullshit? Yes or No?

Or you still think it is possible to build something on this Sacred Sand? Yes or No?




Gunn wrote on Nov. 19, 2008 @ 16:46 GMT
to F. Le Rouge:

What is "Sacred Sand"?

Gunn




Gunn wrote on Nov. 20, 2008 @ 05:15 GMT
to F. Le Rouge:

"Could you tell me Gunn, between a French and a Russian, do you think like me that 'informational Time' that is founding 'Quanta Physics'"

-- Yes. It is already made: please, see G. Quznetsov, Logical Foundation of Theoretical Physics, Nova Sci. Publ.(2006), p.p.79-107, and G. Quznetsov, Probabilistic Treatment of Gauge Theories, Nova Sci. Publ. (2007).

"and Einstein's theories is just bullshit?"

-- Mo. Please, see http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/9811507 , http://arxiv.org/abs/0708.2322 , http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0105002,

"Or you still think it is possible to build something on this Sacred Sand? Yes or No?"

-- What is "Sacred Sand"?

Gunn




F. Le Rouge wrote on Nov. 21, 2008 @ 10:04 GMT
'Sacred' because in my opinion Einstein plays the part of metaphysics in modern Physics, he is the 'saint' that one cannot disprove like Newton was before him.

And 'Sand' because the sand-box to measure Time gives a similar idea to the 'informational Time' that Future Time is made of Past Time. And the binary rythm of informational Time is included in the sand-box too.

Let me ask my question differently: Does this relevant idea of 'informational Time' that recalls Aristotle point of view drives you to conclude like me that grounding PREDICTIVE Physics on PAST Time is bullshit? That LHC hunting the Higgs Boson is just a gigantic virtual video game for rich children?




Gunn wrote on Nov. 22, 2008 @ 04:22 GMT
to F. Le Rouge:

"grounding PREDICTIVE Physics on PAST Time is bullshit?" ___ ?

But whole Physics sense consists in a looking for equations predicting future phenomenons on past initial conditions (?).

"LHC hunting the Higgs Boson is just a gigantic virtual video game for rich children?" ____

Please, see http://arxiv.org/abs/physics?papernum=0302013

Gunn




F. Le Rouge wrote on Nov. 24, 2008 @ 18:43 GMT
Whole Physics that is to say 'Quanta Physics' and Einstein's theories. Not whole Technology based mostly on tests. Einstein's equation is far much approximative to be useful in technology.

(Whole New Economy sense consists in a looking for equations predicting future phenomenons on past initial conditions -I add to make a comparison and maintain the idea of bullshit.)

- Notice about the LHC experience that mixes Technology and fundamental questions in Physics (binary informations) that the 'chiefs' are still explaining on TV, before the real starting of the machine, that 'no result would be a result'. In the 'wave' and 'matter' particle: the 'wave' is the information you are talking about. In other words: the information became the matter through the computation.

- Notice that the algebric standardization is FROM THE EARLY BEGINNING of this predictive Science stronger than the facts. For Descartes, Mersenne, Fermat, Huygens and Newton, above their differences, Algebra is more real than reality, the 'wave' than the water for example (Attempts to use the predictive tool in Economy are here from the beginning too.)




Cristi Stoica wrote on Dec. 1, 2008 @ 11:04 GMT
Dear Gunn,

So compact and interesting construction of informational time from a relational structure! I like it!



Best regards,

Cristi Stoica

“Flowing with a Frozen River”,

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/322




Gunn wrote on Dec. 1, 2008 @ 12:25 GMT
Thanks very much, dear Cristi Stoica.

Gunn




Narendra Nath wrote on Dec. 23, 2008 @ 06:18 GMT
Dear Gunn,

Knowledge of Reality lies in complete silence and your essay is the briefest i have seen. i enjoyed going through it without any hurry and that is a good indication of the maturity you have displayed using the least words to describe. It is truly an enriching experience for me and i do hope i have learnt somthing nice for my future works, if any i may pen down!

i like the analogy of time with Information. After all the IT Technology is all this where computer is storing information and we retrieve as per our desire. Also, we do mnipulation through more calculations.

i have a question about the nature of time in respect tp psychology or if i may add ' meditation' - a state of wakefulness that is associated with calmness of mind/body in deep sleep. in my experience i have felt as if time has moments of stoppage during such a stage.It may well go backward or forward too. Birth and death are like moments of coming alive and leave the life. Even the lived life is just a continuity of momentary train.

A post by Le Rouge on your essay is very much close to my opinion too about the utility of the so-called LHC. For good Physics, i like to promote more vigorously the Wilkinson Probes deeper and deeper in space. This may well help unrival the early universe better. there are lots of things for Physics lying 'hidden' there at present. in my essay i have attempted to project this aspect and will wlcome your opinion as also of other authors.




gunn wrote on Dec. 27, 2008 @ 10:07 GMT
Thanks, Nath.




Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Dec. 30, 2008 @ 21:45 GMT
I actually agree with you essay, a clock is an irreversible device that records information. Any such device requires the input of free energy, it performs work and generates entropy. There is though an underlying issue. Quantum information which is shared by entangled q-bits is reversible. The loss of entanglement which separates the quantum states appears involved with the "generation" of classical information. This can happen for an EPR pair separated by an event horizon, where teleporation of information becomes impossible. From this perspective there is then a different meaning to time on this quantal fine grained basis, in opposition to a macroscopic definition of time which is something registered by a device.

cheers, L.C.




Anonymous wrote on Dec. 31, 2008 @ 01:51 GMT
Dear L.C.

"Because we receive our time with our informational system then all other our times’ notions (thermodynamical time, cosmological time, psychological time etc.) should be defined by that Informational Time." And Quzntum Time, too.

With New 2009,

Gunn

report post as inappropriate


Gunn wrote on Dec. 31, 2008 @ 01:54 GMT
And Quzntum Time should be defined by that Informational Time, too.




Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Dec. 31, 2008 @ 22:28 GMT
It would then appear however that quantum bits, where information is preserved in a system, evolve reversibly up to the moment we make a measurement of them. A clock is a measurement system, and so to measure a "fine grained" notion of time on the quantal level might result in some irreversible destruction of entanglements. Of course quantum erasure procedures and third ancillary emtamged states can be used. I am uncertain whether this adequately would capture the measurement of anything we might call quantum time.

cheers,

L. C.




gunn wrote on Jan. 1, 2009 @ 06:44 GMT
Notion "meathuring" should be defined by Informational Time, too.

Best Wishes for you, L.C.




Login or create account to post reply or comment.

Please enter your e-mail address:
Note: Joining the FQXi mailing list does not give you a login account or constitute membership in the organization.