If you are aware of an interesting new academic paper (that has been published in a peer-reviewed journal or has appeared on the arXiv), a conference talk (at an official professional scientific meeting), an external blog post (by a professional scientist) or a news item (in the mainstream news media), which you think might make an interesting topic for an FQXi blog post, then please contact us at forums@fqxi.org with a link to the original source and a sentence about why you think that the work is worthy of discussion. Please note that we receive many such suggestions and while we endeavour to respond to them, we may not be able to reply to all suggestions.
Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.
Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.
Contests Home
Current Essay Contest
Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.
Previous Contests
Undecidability, Uncomputability, and Unpredictability Essay Contest
December 24, 2019 - April 24, 2020
Contest Partners: Fetzer Franklin Fund, and The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation
read/discuss
What Is “Fundamental”
October 28, 2017 to January 22, 2018
Sponsored by the Fetzer Franklin Fund and The Peter & Patricia Gruber Foundation
read/discuss • winners
Wandering Towards a Goal
How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?
December 2, 2016 to March 3, 2017
Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.
read/discuss • winners
Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics
Contest Partners: Nanotronics Imaging, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, and The John Templeton Foundation
Media Partner: Scientific American
read/discuss • winners
How Should Humanity Steer the Future?
January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014
Contest Partners: Jaan Tallinn, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, The John Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American
read/discuss • winners
It From Bit or Bit From It
March 25 - June 28, 2013
Contest Partners: The Gruber Foundation, J. Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American
read/discuss • winners
Questioning the Foundations
Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?
May 24 - August 31, 2012
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, SubMeta, and Scientific American
read/discuss • winners
Is Reality Digital or Analog?
November 2010 - February 2011
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation and Scientific American
read/discuss • winners
What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?
May - October 2009
Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams
read/discuss • winners
The Nature of Time
August - December 2008
read/discuss • winners
Current Essay Contest
Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.
Previous Contests
Undecidability, Uncomputability, and Unpredictability Essay Contest
December 24, 2019 - April 24, 2020
Contest Partners: Fetzer Franklin Fund, and The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation
read/discuss
What Is “Fundamental”
October 28, 2017 to January 22, 2018
Sponsored by the Fetzer Franklin Fund and The Peter & Patricia Gruber Foundation
read/discuss • winners
Wandering Towards a Goal
How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?
December 2, 2016 to March 3, 2017
Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.
read/discuss • winners
Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics
Contest Partners: Nanotronics Imaging, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, and The John Templeton Foundation
Media Partner: Scientific American
read/discuss • winners
How Should Humanity Steer the Future?
January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014
Contest Partners: Jaan Tallinn, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, The John Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American
read/discuss • winners
It From Bit or Bit From It
March 25 - June 28, 2013
Contest Partners: The Gruber Foundation, J. Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American
read/discuss • winners
Questioning the Foundations
Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?
May 24 - August 31, 2012
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, SubMeta, and Scientific American
read/discuss • winners
Is Reality Digital or Analog?
November 2010 - February 2011
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation and Scientific American
read/discuss • winners
What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?
May - October 2009
Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams
read/discuss • winners
The Nature of Time
August - December 2008
read/discuss • winners
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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC
Jonathan Dickau: on 4/12/17 at 16:52pm UTC, wrote Thanks for the thoughtful consideration.. Regards, JJD
Jeffrey Schmitz: on 4/10/17 at 21:00pm UTC, wrote Jonathan, Thank you for reading my essay and your comments. Discovered...
Jonathan Dickau: on 4/10/17 at 19:27pm UTC, wrote One more thought.. While Gödel's proof limits the facts we can derive...
Jonathan Dickau: on 4/10/17 at 19:18pm UTC, wrote By the way.. Thanu Padmanabhan's recent book on gravitation focuses in on...
Jonathan Dickau: on 4/10/17 at 19:04pm UTC, wrote Hello Jeff, I enjoyed your essay, and I went through it twice so I could...
Satyavarapu Gupta: on 4/7/17 at 5:59am UTC, wrote Dear Jeffrey Michael Schmitz, Thank you for giving comments even in the...
Jeffrey Schmitz: on 4/7/17 at 3:34am UTC, wrote ????
Jeffrey Schmitz: on 4/7/17 at 3:33am UTC, wrote Don, Thank you for reading my essay and your comments. As for your essay,...
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Jonathan Dickau: on 4/12/17 at 16:52pm UTC, wrote Thanks for the thoughtful consideration.. Regards, JJD
Jeffrey Schmitz: on 4/10/17 at 21:00pm UTC, wrote Jonathan, Thank you for reading my essay and your comments. Discovered...
Jonathan Dickau: on 4/10/17 at 19:27pm UTC, wrote One more thought.. While Gödel's proof limits the facts we can derive...
Jonathan Dickau: on 4/10/17 at 19:18pm UTC, wrote By the way.. Thanu Padmanabhan's recent book on gravitation focuses in on...
Jonathan Dickau: on 4/10/17 at 19:04pm UTC, wrote Hello Jeff, I enjoyed your essay, and I went through it twice so I could...
Satyavarapu Gupta: on 4/7/17 at 5:59am UTC, wrote Dear Jeffrey Michael Schmitz, Thank you for giving comments even in the...
Jeffrey Schmitz: on 4/7/17 at 3:34am UTC, wrote ????
Jeffrey Schmitz: on 4/7/17 at 3:33am UTC, wrote Don, Thank you for reading my essay and your comments. As for your essay,...
RECENT FORUM POSTS
Lorraine Ford: "Information about carrots, peppers, tweeting birds and roaring lions does..." in Measuring Free Will: Ian...
Lorraine Ford: "Carl, Instead of focusing on examples like carrots and peppers, we need to..." in Measuring Free Will: Ian...
Lorraine Ford: "To many, consciousness doesn’t make sense: why isn’t the world a zombie..." in Consciousness in the...
Lorraine Ford: "The thing about consciousness, as opposed to laws of nature, is that..." in Consciousness in the...
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Jochen Szangolies: "Hi there, I'm not sure it's such a good idea to make current votes visible..." in Undecidability,...
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FQXi FORUM
April 7, 2020
CATEGORY:
Wandering Towards a Goal Essay Contest (2016-2017)
[back]
TOPIC: Watching the Construction of a New Wing by Jeffrey Michael Schmitz [refresh]
TOPIC: Watching the Construction of a New Wing by Jeffrey Michael Schmitz [refresh]
Essay Abstract
Intelligent creates ideas that did not exist before and finds order in chaos. Using metamathematics and thermodynamics this essay takes you through the steps to show that bases of life and intelligent systems are one and the same.
Author Bio
Jeffrey Schmitz has his Masters in Physics from the University of Tennessee. He has taught Astronomy, Physics and Physical Science as an adjunct instructor at eight different colleges in and around Chicago.
Download Essay PDF File
Intelligent creates ideas that did not exist before and finds order in chaos. Using metamathematics and thermodynamics this essay takes you through the steps to show that bases of life and intelligent systems are one and the same.
Author Bio
Jeffrey Schmitz has his Masters in Physics from the University of Tennessee. He has taught Astronomy, Physics and Physical Science as an adjunct instructor at eight different colleges in and around Chicago.
Download Essay PDF File
Your 1st example. All he had to do was consider the tides as being Sun caused. Great strides in science follow slight changes of perspective as to what observations are part of the problem.
That, I maintain, is what i needed in this contest.
Hodge
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That, I maintain, is what i needed in this contest.
Hodge
Hodge,
Thank you for reading my essay; I am looking forward to reading your essay.
An earth-centered system could still explain the tides due to the attraction of the sun as orbits the earth. Galileo’s sun-centered system did have a problem with tides, because he could only explain one tide a day in line with the sun. There are two tides a day mostly due to the moon; later mechanics could explain this observation.
I use examples to help explain my point, but sometimes can distract from the theme. My essay is about the nature of non-human intelligence.
Jeff
Thank you for reading my essay; I am looking forward to reading your essay.
An earth-centered system could still explain the tides due to the attraction of the sun as orbits the earth. Galileo’s sun-centered system did have a problem with tides, because he could only explain one tide a day in line with the sun. There are two tides a day mostly due to the moon; later mechanics could explain this observation.
I use examples to help explain my point, but sometimes can distract from the theme. My essay is about the nature of non-human intelligence.
Jeff
"... about 95% of the universe is believed to be dark matter and dark energy (dark meaning known unknowns) ...." I have suggested that dark matter has positive gravitational mass-energy and zero inertial mass-energy, while dark energy has negative gravitational mass-energy and zero inertial mass-energy, i.e. Einstein's equivalence principle is totally wrong for both dark matter and dark energy. If the preceding idea is wrong, then I personally would bet on MOND-chameleon particles. In any case, I say that Milgrom is the Kepler of contemporary cosmology — BASED UPON THE EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE WHICH NOW EXISTS.
"Where Are the Dark Matter Particles?"
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"Where Are the Dark Matter Particles?"
David,
Thank you for reading my essay; I am looking forward to reading your essay. My essay has nothing to do with dark matter or dark energy. I used dark matter and dark matter as examples of things that exist, but cannot currently seen by telescopes (or felt, smelt or heard). Those MOND-chameleon particles sound fun and I hope you are correct about them.
Jeff
Thank you for reading my essay; I am looking forward to reading your essay. My essay has nothing to do with dark matter or dark energy. I used dark matter and dark matter as examples of things that exist, but cannot currently seen by telescopes (or felt, smelt or heard). Those MOND-chameleon particles sound fun and I hope you are correct about them.
Jeff
To whom it may concern,
My essay might deserve a "1" and "2", but I would like some explanation as to why my essay scored so low. If my essay is just poorly written then just say that. If you disagree with some point I made, let me try to defend my work.
Sincerely,
Jeff
My essay might deserve a "1" and "2", but I would like some explanation as to why my essay scored so low. If my essay is just poorly written then just say that. If you disagree with some point I made, let me try to defend my work.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Dear Jeffrey Michael Schmitz,
Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.
I merely wish to point out that “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.
Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.
The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.
A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and perhaps comment on its merit.
Joe Fisher, Realist
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Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.
I merely wish to point out that “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.
Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.
The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.
A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and perhaps comment on its merit.
Joe Fisher, Realist
Joe Fisher,
Thank you for your comment. I am looking forward to reading your essay. A one dimensional infinite surface sounds interesting and if true could help me lose weight and help my parallel parking skills.
Jeff
Thank you for your comment. I am looking forward to reading your essay. A one dimensional infinite surface sounds interesting and if true could help me lose weight and help my parallel parking skills.
Jeff
Dear Jeffrey Michael Scmitz
I invite you and every physicist to read my work “TIME ORIGIN,DEFINITION AND EMPIRICAL MEANING FOR PHYSICISTS, Héctor Daniel Gianni ,I’m not a physicist.
How people interested in “Time” could feel about related things to the subject.
1) Intellectuals interested in Time issues usually have a nice and creative wander for the unknown.
2) They usually enjoy this wander of their searches around it.
3) For millenniums this wander has been shared by a lot of creative people around the world.
4) What if suddenly, something considered quasi impossible to be found or discovered such as “Time” definition and experimental meaning confronts them?
5) Their reaction would be like, something unbelievable,… a kind of disappointment, probably interpreted as a loss of wander…..
6) ….worst than that, if we say that what was found or discovered wasn’t a viable theory, but a proved fact.
7) Then it would become offensive to be part of the millenary problem solution, instead of being a reason for happiness and satisfaction.
8) The reader approach to the news would be paradoxically adverse.
9) Instead, I think it should be a nice welcome to discovery, to be received with opened arms and considered to be read with full attention.
11)Time “existence” is exclusive as a “measuring system”, its physical existence can’t be proved by science, as the “time system” is. Experimentally “time” is “movement”, we can prove that, showing that with clocks we measure “constant and uniform” movement and not “the so called Time”.
12)The original “time manuscript” has 23 pages, my manuscript in this contest has only 9 pages.
I share this brief with people interested in “time” and with physicists who have been in sore need of this issue for the last 50 or 60 years.
Héctor
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I invite you and every physicist to read my work “TIME ORIGIN,DEFINITION AND EMPIRICAL MEANING FOR PHYSICISTS, Héctor Daniel Gianni ,I’m not a physicist.
How people interested in “Time” could feel about related things to the subject.
1) Intellectuals interested in Time issues usually have a nice and creative wander for the unknown.
2) They usually enjoy this wander of their searches around it.
3) For millenniums this wander has been shared by a lot of creative people around the world.
4) What if suddenly, something considered quasi impossible to be found or discovered such as “Time” definition and experimental meaning confronts them?
5) Their reaction would be like, something unbelievable,… a kind of disappointment, probably interpreted as a loss of wander…..
6) ….worst than that, if we say that what was found or discovered wasn’t a viable theory, but a proved fact.
7) Then it would become offensive to be part of the millenary problem solution, instead of being a reason for happiness and satisfaction.
8) The reader approach to the news would be paradoxically adverse.
9) Instead, I think it should be a nice welcome to discovery, to be received with opened arms and considered to be read with full attention.
11)Time “existence” is exclusive as a “measuring system”, its physical existence can’t be proved by science, as the “time system” is. Experimentally “time” is “movement”, we can prove that, showing that with clocks we measure “constant and uniform” movement and not “the so called Time”.
12)The original “time manuscript” has 23 pages, my manuscript in this contest has only 9 pages.
I share this brief with people interested in “time” and with physicists who have been in sore need of this issue for the last 50 or 60 years.
Héctor
Dear Jeffrey,
FQXI Contests are first of all new ideas. You give important ideas and deep inference:
«The process of entropy does not need life, but life requires entropy. We can think of life as an intelligent system which enables lower energy macro ordered states that started at the moment the goal of reproduction was found.»
«…we are the true champions of entropy.Life itself is one of the most efficient agents of entropy.»
My high appreciation. I invite you to read and evaluate my ideas .
Yours faithfully,
Vladimir
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FQXI Contests are first of all new ideas. You give important ideas and deep inference:
«The process of entropy does not need life, but life requires entropy. We can think of life as an intelligent system which enables lower energy macro ordered states that started at the moment the goal of reproduction was found.»
«…we are the true champions of entropy.Life itself is one of the most efficient agents of entropy.»
My high appreciation. I invite you to read and evaluate my ideas .
Yours faithfully,
Vladimir
Jeffrey, I want to add: the title of your essay is magnificent - the deepest constructive life dialectic!
Yours faithfully,
Vladimir
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Yours faithfully,
Vladimir
Vladimir,
Thank you very much for the wonderful comments and thank you for reading my essay. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Thank you very much for the wonderful comments and thank you for reading my essay. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
This is a really good essay. I am very surprised it is not getting more attention.
Let me know if I got this right:
1. Mathematical models are incomplete. The map is not the territory!
2. The scientific method is incomplete because because it does not discuss how choices are made (see my essay).
3. We confuse intelligence with self-awareness and high rate data processing - intelligence is something separate. AI would be more accurately described as human augmentation (refer to Doug Engelbart at SRI).
Hey! Essay writers read and vote on this essay ... It is excellent!
Don Limuti
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This is a really good essay. I am very surprised it is not getting more attention.
Let me know if I got this right:
1. Mathematical models are incomplete. The map is not the territory!
2. The scientific method is incomplete because because it does not discuss how choices are made (see my essay).
3. We confuse intelligence with self-awareness and high rate data processing - intelligence is something separate. AI would be more accurately described as human augmentation (refer to Doug Engelbart at SRI).
Hey! Essay writers read and vote on this essay ... It is excellent!
Don Limuti
Don,
Thank you for reading my essay and the wonderful review. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
The scientific method will never be complete (only after an infinite number of experiments), models that fit data from science will also never be complete. Science is a process, a true scientist knows this, accepts this and even enjoys the journey.
If given a goal that is not included in the instructions and the ability to rewrite some of the instructions then AI would be true intelligence. It might not be useful to make AI true intelligence because we want it to meet our goals and not its own. Some goals are forever outside the system like- predict tomorrow's weather.
Jeff
Thank you for reading my essay and the wonderful review. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
The scientific method will never be complete (only after an infinite number of experiments), models that fit data from science will also never be complete. Science is a process, a true scientist knows this, accepts this and even enjoys the journey.
If given a goal that is not included in the instructions and the ability to rewrite some of the instructions then AI would be true intelligence. It might not be useful to make AI true intelligence because we want it to meet our goals and not its own. Some goals are forever outside the system like- predict tomorrow's weather.
Jeff
Dear Jeffrey,
With great interest I read your essay, which of course is worthy of high praise.
You are one of the few who directly answers the question put by the contest.
You are absolutely right that «If entropy requires heat to flow from hot to cold then a refrigerator would seem an impossible device.» You correctly put questions and find answers «A refrigerator works because on the inside entropy of the refrigerator is reduced, but outside entropy is increased more, so the overall entropy of the universe is increased.»
In my essay , is shown that if you do not use the mystical properties of matter and fields, then there is every reason to believe that the universe is much simpler than it is thought to be.
There is only one essence and the only universal quantum parametric mechanism in the universe that operates on the principle of the classical heat pump in solitons (attractors), and that functions both at the micro- and macro-level of fractal matter. This mechanism allows using a small fraction of the external energy to control in many times big fraction the energy of the system.
This mechanism is also the answer to the questions of this competition.
However, everyone loves their fiction and "magic", built by their "gods", so very few are able to see the rational grain in other people's ideas because of their illusions.
Your essay allowed to consider us like-minded people.
You might also like reading my essay .
Kind regards,
Vladimir
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With great interest I read your essay, which of course is worthy of high praise.
You are one of the few who directly answers the question put by the contest.
You are absolutely right that «If entropy requires heat to flow from hot to cold then a refrigerator would seem an impossible device.» You correctly put questions and find answers «A refrigerator works because on the inside entropy of the refrigerator is reduced, but outside entropy is increased more, so the overall entropy of the universe is increased.»
In my essay , is shown that if you do not use the mystical properties of matter and fields, then there is every reason to believe that the universe is much simpler than it is thought to be.
There is only one essence and the only universal quantum parametric mechanism in the universe that operates on the principle of the classical heat pump in solitons (attractors), and that functions both at the micro- and macro-level of fractal matter. This mechanism allows using a small fraction of the external energy to control in many times big fraction the energy of the system.
This mechanism is also the answer to the questions of this competition.
However, everyone loves their fiction and "magic", built by their "gods", so very few are able to see the rational grain in other people's ideas because of their illusions.
Your essay allowed to consider us like-minded people.
You might also like reading my essay .
Kind regards,
Vladimir
Vladimir,
Thank you for reading my essay and thank you for the wonderful review. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Thank you for reading my essay and thank you for the wonderful review. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Nice essay Schmitz,
Your ideas and thinking are excellent for eg…
Intelligence needs:
A goal.
A knowledge base.
A set of instructions, which do not contain the goal.
The ability to rewrite those instructions to conform to the knowledge base to help achieve the
goal.
A Good idea, I fully agree with you, probably...
view entire post
Your ideas and thinking are excellent for eg…
Intelligence needs:
A goal.
A knowledge base.
A set of instructions, which do not contain the goal.
The ability to rewrite those instructions to conform to the knowledge base to help achieve the
goal.
A Good idea, I fully agree with you, probably...
view entire post
=snp. gupta (I do not know how you wished to be addressed),
Thank you for reading my essay. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
What I tried to state in my essay is that life (not the whole universe) is an intelligent system. Something can have intelligence and not be self aware. In some cases, self-awareness and consciousness can develop from intelligence.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Thank you for reading my essay. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
What I tried to state in my essay is that life (not the whole universe) is an intelligent system. Something can have intelligence and not be self aware. In some cases, self-awareness and consciousness can develop from intelligence.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Jeff,
Life is an intelligent system and is one of the most efficient agents of entropy. When you say intent and purpose are clear and plentiful at the small scale, do you mean the quantum scale? The metamathematics and thermodynamics concepts do come together in the explanation and pigs still can't fly.
Your musings do seem to reflect the inscrutability of the topic. I had trouble getting a handle on it.
Adjunct teaching is not rewarding financially but is as you note interacting with students. I did it part time in several subjects.
Regards,
Jim Hoover
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Life is an intelligent system and is one of the most efficient agents of entropy. When you say intent and purpose are clear and plentiful at the small scale, do you mean the quantum scale? The metamathematics and thermodynamics concepts do come together in the explanation and pigs still can't fly.
Your musings do seem to reflect the inscrutability of the topic. I had trouble getting a handle on it.
Adjunct teaching is not rewarding financially but is as you note interacting with students. I did it part time in several subjects.
Regards,
Jim Hoover
Jim,
Thank you for reading my essay. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
No, I did not mean the quantum scale, that is a little too small and I should of said that. I meant small concept scale (the quantum scale is smaller physically, but more complex as far as concepts). What a molecule is doing or what a single worker is doing is clearer than if a school really needs an addition or what is the meaning of life or the universe. My point was to keep concepts small as a key to understanding.
Jeff
Thank you for reading my essay. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
No, I did not mean the quantum scale, that is a little too small and I should of said that. I meant small concept scale (the quantum scale is smaller physically, but more complex as far as concepts). What a molecule is doing or what a single worker is doing is clearer than if a school really needs an addition or what is the meaning of life or the universe. My point was to keep concepts small as a key to understanding.
Jeff
Jim,
I did read your essay, I remembered when I saw the title. Your essay was the best writing I have seen in this contest.
Jeff
I did read your essay, I remembered when I saw the title. Your essay was the best writing I have seen in this contest.
Jeff
Jeff,
Lovely essay, with much sense, I do like your direct readable writing style. I also broadly agree your 'threshold' definition of intelligence and described almost the same thing, with imaginary scenario's, responses and 'feedback loops' informing decisions.
You also point out some very pertinent facts; "There are many wrong physical models that work perfectly well mathematically" and; "a toaster oven with a goal and the ability to change could be intelligent." (as the toaster in the UK TV series Red Dwarf', which also consistently reverts to it's primary goal!)
Regarding; "The Heisenberg uncertainty principle Is a known unknown, a limit to our knowledge of a particle" So true, but you may have seen I do identify a valid classical derivation of that probability distribution! Of course that may not pass the cognitive dissonance test for some years (the 1st part of the essay shows why) but nobody has yet falsified it as it's a self apparent (if initially seeming complex) mechanism.
I'm sorry my essay is (again!) so dense, but I had a lot to get in to support the compound hypothesis. Yes it does need 2 reads. I find most good essays and papers do, though I do invariably 'speed read' first to decide if it's worthwhile. Yours was an exception, clear and spot on, so I slowed down and just read it once.
I see you've been trolled. Mine has just received it's 11th '1', just after it went up a couple of places! Rest assured your score from me will be a deserved good one to compensate, in fact going on now. There's some discussion on the admin blog as trolling can be easily eliminated.
I do hope your second read of mine will reveal the often subtle connections of how quantum interactions DO contain adequate information and options to drive a multi choice multi layer 'yes/no switch' feedback and decision system, even with a 'random' mutation mechanism!
Very best
Peter
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Lovely essay, with much sense, I do like your direct readable writing style. I also broadly agree your 'threshold' definition of intelligence and described almost the same thing, with imaginary scenario's, responses and 'feedback loops' informing decisions.
You also point out some very pertinent facts; "There are many wrong physical models that work perfectly well mathematically" and; "a toaster oven with a goal and the ability to change could be intelligent." (as the toaster in the UK TV series Red Dwarf', which also consistently reverts to it's primary goal!)
Regarding; "The Heisenberg uncertainty principle Is a known unknown, a limit to our knowledge of a particle" So true, but you may have seen I do identify a valid classical derivation of that probability distribution! Of course that may not pass the cognitive dissonance test for some years (the 1st part of the essay shows why) but nobody has yet falsified it as it's a self apparent (if initially seeming complex) mechanism.
I'm sorry my essay is (again!) so dense, but I had a lot to get in to support the compound hypothesis. Yes it does need 2 reads. I find most good essays and papers do, though I do invariably 'speed read' first to decide if it's worthwhile. Yours was an exception, clear and spot on, so I slowed down and just read it once.
I see you've been trolled. Mine has just received it's 11th '1', just after it went up a couple of places! Rest assured your score from me will be a deserved good one to compensate, in fact going on now. There's some discussion on the admin blog as trolling can be easily eliminated.
I do hope your second read of mine will reveal the often subtle connections of how quantum interactions DO contain adequate information and options to drive a multi choice multi layer 'yes/no switch' feedback and decision system, even with a 'random' mutation mechanism!
Very best
Peter
Peter,
Thank you for the great review. I just want people to read my essay and tell me what they think (good or bad). When an essay is ranked low nobody reads it. I did read the bottom ranked essay and whoever ranked that essay was correct, but I know there are a few lost gems near the bottom.
I will read your essay again and give it a more full review.
All the best,
Jeff
Thank you for the great review. I just want people to read my essay and tell me what they think (good or bad). When an essay is ranked low nobody reads it. I did read the bottom ranked essay and whoever ranked that essay was correct, but I know there are a few lost gems near the bottom.
I will read your essay again and give it a more full review.
All the best,
Jeff
Hi Jeff
I found your idea of mistakes being mandatory for something to be identified as intelligent quite fascinating. It is true that I have allowed for mistakes (flaws) in my own modeling of intelligence, but that was incidental, and I had not thought about it as explicitly as you have.
It is also interesting that you state that supercomputers might not be intelligent but the average toaster might be considered as intelligent. I am not sure but it is possible that the difference between the two might come down to their capability to self-regulate. Toasters can but supercomputers can’t. The biological mechanisms that you identified as being intelligent can also self-regulate. You correctly state that scientific method is ‘part’ of an intelligent system without being intelligent itself.
I liked your style of writing and wish you had written more on the subject. Nevertheless, I think this essay is way better than the average essay (I am rating it accordingly) because of your clear thought regarding mistakes being necessary for a system to be considered as intelligent.
Regards, Willy
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I found your idea of mistakes being mandatory for something to be identified as intelligent quite fascinating. It is true that I have allowed for mistakes (flaws) in my own modeling of intelligence, but that was incidental, and I had not thought about it as explicitly as you have.
It is also interesting that you state that supercomputers might not be intelligent but the average toaster might be considered as intelligent. I am not sure but it is possible that the difference between the two might come down to their capability to self-regulate. Toasters can but supercomputers can’t. The biological mechanisms that you identified as being intelligent can also self-regulate. You correctly state that scientific method is ‘part’ of an intelligent system without being intelligent itself.
I liked your style of writing and wish you had written more on the subject. Nevertheless, I think this essay is way better than the average essay (I am rating it accordingly) because of your clear thought regarding mistakes being necessary for a system to be considered as intelligent.
Regards, Willy
Willy,
Thank you for reading my essay. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
The average toaster is (currently) not intelligent, but it would not take much to make an intelligent miro-processer and even less to make an intelligent supercomputer (I am sure there are such programs). You might not need or want an intelligent machine, as I point out mistakes will occur and a level of unpredictiblity. Intelligent does not mean better or more powerful, just different.
Intelligence requires not just self-regualtoin, but a goal that is outside of current instruction set. For a toaster, something that looks at the darkness of the toast is self-regulating, but to be intelligent you might have a ranking of the toast and each morning the toaster will change the setting to get a better toast ranking (some mornings the toast will be worst) and the toaster will remember and learn until "perfect" toast.
All the best,
Jeff
Thank you for reading my essay. I am looking forward to reading your essay.
The average toaster is (currently) not intelligent, but it would not take much to make an intelligent miro-processer and even less to make an intelligent supercomputer (I am sure there are such programs). You might not need or want an intelligent machine, as I point out mistakes will occur and a level of unpredictiblity. Intelligent does not mean better or more powerful, just different.
Intelligence requires not just self-regualtoin, but a goal that is outside of current instruction set. For a toaster, something that looks at the darkness of the toast is self-regulating, but to be intelligent you might have a ranking of the toast and each morning the toaster will change the setting to get a better toast ranking (some mornings the toast will be worst) and the toaster will remember and learn until "perfect" toast.
All the best,
Jeff
Dear Jeff,
Thanks for coming back to my essay! And thanks for your critique. I'll think about that. It's difficult to know essay ranking dynamics, complicated by the trolls who deal out '1's for who knows what reason. Anyway I read your essay with your request in mind. It's difficult to say. You write well. Your info is generally understandable. One commenter above asks what is...
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Thanks for coming back to my essay! And thanks for your critique. I'll think about that. It's difficult to know essay ranking dynamics, complicated by the trolls who deal out '1's for who knows what reason. Anyway I read your essay with your request in mind. It's difficult to say. You write well. Your info is generally understandable. One commenter above asks what is...
view entire post
Edwin Eugene Klingman,
Thank you for your help. I wrote comments in your thread.
I think you will be the winner of this contest.
Jeff
Thank you for your help. I wrote comments in your thread.
I think you will be the winner of this contest.
Jeff
Hi Jeffrey
Thanks for your comments on “Traveler & Terrain….” Curious as to what statements you would have left out.
I read your paper and found it a comfortable ramble through familiar territory. I judge that you will have to budget your time to allow for your persistent curiosity in things large and small. I recognize the condition quite well – looking for deep meaning in any little oddment of experience. I don’t know if there is a cure, but we seem to be in good company.
Regards,
Don
sproutsradio@gmail.com
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Thanks for your comments on “Traveler & Terrain….” Curious as to what statements you would have left out.
I read your paper and found it a comfortable ramble through familiar territory. I judge that you will have to budget your time to allow for your persistent curiosity in things large and small. I recognize the condition quite well – looking for deep meaning in any little oddment of experience. I don’t know if there is a cure, but we seem to be in good company.
Regards,
Don
sproutsradio@gmail.com
Don,
Thank you for reading my essay and your comments.
As for your essay, I would edit out that part with the list of things that included the women with the glass of wine. The line with the birds and the sky. I know you were trying for beauty, but your words are rich enough without added images.
All the best,
Jeff
Thank you for reading my essay and your comments.
As for your essay, I would edit out that part with the list of things that included the women with the glass of wine. The line with the birds and the sky. I know you were trying for beauty, but your words are rich enough without added images.
All the best,
Jeff
Dear Sirs!
Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of Newton returned as the New Cartesian Physic and promises to be a theory of everything. To tell you this good news I use spam.
New Cartesian Physic based on the identity of space and matter. It showed that the formula of mass-energy equivalence comes from the pressure of the Universe, the flow of force which on the corpuscle is equal to the product of Planck's constant to the speed of light.
New Cartesian Physic has great potential for understanding the world. To show it, I ventured to give "materialistic explanations of the paranormal and supernatural" is the title of my essay.
Visit my essay, you will find there the New Cartesian Physic and make a short entry: "I believe that space is a matter" I will answer you in return. Can put me 1.
Sincerely,
Dizhechko Boris
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Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of Newton returned as the New Cartesian Physic and promises to be a theory of everything. To tell you this good news I use spam.
New Cartesian Physic based on the identity of space and matter. It showed that the formula of mass-energy equivalence comes from the pressure of the Universe, the flow of force which on the corpuscle is equal to the product of Planck's constant to the speed of light.
New Cartesian Physic has great potential for understanding the world. To show it, I ventured to give "materialistic explanations of the paranormal and supernatural" is the title of my essay.
Visit my essay, you will find there the New Cartesian Physic and make a short entry: "I believe that space is a matter" I will answer you in return. Can put me 1.
Sincerely,
Dizhechko Boris
????
Dear Jeffrey Michael Schmitz,
Thank you for giving comments even in the last of the time...
Thank you for you nice words. Dont worry about rating the essay. As the time getting over, one can not read and understand any more new ideas, mind will get saturated....
What I request will me, you take time and visit again read this coolly and we can discuss with each other. Please correspond with me on the id...
snp.gupta@gmail.com
Best regards
=snp
report post as inappropriate
Thank you for giving comments even in the last of the time...
Thank you for you nice words. Dont worry about rating the essay. As the time getting over, one can not read and understand any more new ideas, mind will get saturated....
What I request will me, you take time and visit again read this coolly and we can discuss with each other. Please correspond with me on the id...
snp.gupta@gmail.com
Best regards
=snp
Hello Jeff,
I enjoyed your essay, and I went through it twice so I could be sure to grasp your intended meaning. I think you would greatly enjoy the book "Turbulent Mirror" by Briggs and Peat, which fleshes out some of what you left unsaid very nicely, and follows a similar theme. My main interest in that book is its focus on what I call the far shore of chaos. In my formulation, the presence of randomness comes from the accumulation of too much order in dissimilar patterns, which forces irregularity or roughness to appear, where the patterns are in conflict.
So in effect; chaos emerges from order. But on the other side of randomness, things become orderly again, so that there are regimes of order within chaos, if things are allowed to vary continuously. According to Noether, observed conservation laws are equivalent to symmetries, so the study of symmetry is very prominent in Physics. But as you say; entropy prevails given enough time and space to have its action, so this suggests the universe as a whole is asymmetric when considering its progression over time.
In terms of the patterning of the octonions, building of order is stage 4, the onset and increase of chaos is stage 5, and the far shore of chaos is stage 6 phenomenology. But this interplay is easily observed in the Mandelbrot Set, if we home in on any of its branching Misiurewicz points. A theorem of Tan Lei states that the symmetry becomes more and more exact the farther we zoom in, but the reverse is also true - where the structures bounding any Misiurewicz point are asymmetrical, reflecting the global asymmetry of M. So we see an interplay between exact local symmetries and global asymmetry - just like the universe.
I believe in everything you say Jeff, but I see much of the pattern and phenomenology as arising from pure Mathematics.
All the Best,
Jonathan
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I enjoyed your essay, and I went through it twice so I could be sure to grasp your intended meaning. I think you would greatly enjoy the book "Turbulent Mirror" by Briggs and Peat, which fleshes out some of what you left unsaid very nicely, and follows a similar theme. My main interest in that book is its focus on what I call the far shore of chaos. In my formulation, the presence of randomness comes from the accumulation of too much order in dissimilar patterns, which forces irregularity or roughness to appear, where the patterns are in conflict.
So in effect; chaos emerges from order. But on the other side of randomness, things become orderly again, so that there are regimes of order within chaos, if things are allowed to vary continuously. According to Noether, observed conservation laws are equivalent to symmetries, so the study of symmetry is very prominent in Physics. But as you say; entropy prevails given enough time and space to have its action, so this suggests the universe as a whole is asymmetric when considering its progression over time.
In terms of the patterning of the octonions, building of order is stage 4, the onset and increase of chaos is stage 5, and the far shore of chaos is stage 6 phenomenology. But this interplay is easily observed in the Mandelbrot Set, if we home in on any of its branching Misiurewicz points. A theorem of Tan Lei states that the symmetry becomes more and more exact the farther we zoom in, but the reverse is also true - where the structures bounding any Misiurewicz point are asymmetrical, reflecting the global asymmetry of M. So we see an interplay between exact local symmetries and global asymmetry - just like the universe.
I believe in everything you say Jeff, but I see much of the pattern and phenomenology as arising from pure Mathematics.
All the Best,
Jonathan
By the way..
Thanu Padmanabhan's recent book on gravitation focuses in on the interplay between local order and global entropy as significant to understanding what gravity is. He devotes a whole chapter to Thermodynamic formulations of Gravity, and weaves the subject in several other places in the book. Paddy's view is that this compels us to view Gravity as quantum mechanical. That is; the global progression of entropy forces us to consider Quantum Gravity as essential.
You can find a PDF to download if you search for "Gravitation: Foundations and Frontiers"
All the Best,
Jonathan
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Thanu Padmanabhan's recent book on gravitation focuses in on the interplay between local order and global entropy as significant to understanding what gravity is. He devotes a whole chapter to Thermodynamic formulations of Gravity, and weaves the subject in several other places in the book. Paddy's view is that this compels us to view Gravity as quantum mechanical. That is; the global progression of entropy forces us to consider Quantum Gravity as essential.
You can find a PDF to download if you search for "Gravitation: Foundations and Frontiers"
All the Best,
Jonathan
One more thought..
While Gödel's proof limits the facts we can derive from any formal system, it does not limit in any way what we can do with discovered knowledge. Hilbert and Whitehead both gave up on their attempts to unify Math, because of Gödel's proof, but we did not have detailed maps of figures like E8 and the Mandelbrot Set. I think that if these discoveries had come earlier, what we can know despite the limitations would have been more apparent, and they never would have been forced to admit defeat.
All the Best,
Jonathan
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While Gödel's proof limits the facts we can derive from any formal system, it does not limit in any way what we can do with discovered knowledge. Hilbert and Whitehead both gave up on their attempts to unify Math, because of Gödel's proof, but we did not have detailed maps of figures like E8 and the Mandelbrot Set. I think that if these discoveries had come earlier, what we can know despite the limitations would have been more apparent, and they never would have been forced to admit defeat.
All the Best,
Jonathan
Jonathan,
Thank you for reading my essay and your comments.
Discovered knowledge is a system. How that knowledge became a system is outside of that system. The scientific method is at the intersection between mathematics and experiment. The limit of mathematical systems is the reason science exists, so Hilbert and Whitehead giving up is a win not a loss in my eyes.
If time is a function of entropy and gravity curved space-time then space-entropy (a collective mode) might important in understanding gravity. Gravity itself is reversible and therefore not direct function of entropy, but QM being non-local could be explained by this.
All the best,
Jeff
Thank you for reading my essay and your comments.
Discovered knowledge is a system. How that knowledge became a system is outside of that system. The scientific method is at the intersection between mathematics and experiment. The limit of mathematical systems is the reason science exists, so Hilbert and Whitehead giving up is a win not a loss in my eyes.
If time is a function of entropy and gravity curved space-time then space-entropy (a collective mode) might important in understanding gravity. Gravity itself is reversible and therefore not direct function of entropy, but QM being non-local could be explained by this.
All the best,
Jeff
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