If you are aware of an interesting new academic paper (that has been published in a peer-reviewed journal or has appeared on the arXiv), a conference talk (at an official professional scientific meeting), an external blog post (by a professional scientist) or a news item (in the mainstream news media), which you think might make an interesting topic for an FQXi blog post, then please contact us at forums@fqxi.org with a link to the original source and a sentence about why you think that the work is worthy of discussion. Please note that we receive many such suggestions and while we endeavour to respond to them, we may not be able to reply to all suggestions.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Contests Home

Previous Contests

**Undecidability, Uncomputability, and Unpredictability Essay Contest**

*December 24, 2019 - April 24, 2020*

Contest Partners: Fetzer Franklin Fund, and The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation

read/discuss • winners

**What Is “Fundamental”**

*October 28, 2017 to January 22, 2018*

*Sponsored by the Fetzer Franklin Fund and The Peter & Patricia Gruber Foundation*

read/discuss • winners

**Wandering Towards a Goal**

How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?

*December 2, 2016 to March 3, 2017*

Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.

read/discuss • winners

**Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics**

*Contest Partners: Nanotronics Imaging, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, and The John Templeton Foundation*

Media Partner: Scientific American

read/discuss • winners

**How Should Humanity Steer the Future?**

*January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014*

*Contest Partners: Jaan Tallinn, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, The John Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**It From Bit or Bit From It**

*March 25 - June 28, 2013*

*Contest Partners: The Gruber Foundation, J. Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**Questioning the Foundations**

Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?

*May 24 - August 31, 2012*

*Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, SubMeta, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**Is Reality Digital or Analog?**

*November 2010 - February 2011*

*Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?**

*May - October 2009*

*Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams*

read/discuss • winners

**The Nature of Time**

*August - December 2008*

read/discuss • winners

Previous Contests

Contest Partners: Fetzer Franklin Fund, and The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?

Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.

read/discuss • winners

Media Partner: Scientific American

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

Forum Home

Introduction

Terms of Use

RSS feed | RSS help

Introduction

Terms of Use

*Posts by the author are highlighted in orange; posts by FQXi Members are highlighted in blue.*

RSS feed | RSS help

RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

**Dizhechko Semyonovich**: *on* 4/7/17 at 8:22am UTC, wrote Dear Sirs! Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of...

**Peter Jackson**: *on* 4/1/17 at 17:53pm UTC, wrote Peter, I found that an interesting, valid and well organized review of...

**peter wanjohi**: *on* 3/22/17 at 11:30am UTC, wrote Thanks a lot , i sure have also read your essay

**peter wanjohi**: *on* 3/22/17 at 7:58am UTC, wrote Thanks ,sure will...

**peter wanjohi**: *on* 3/22/17 at 7:57am UTC, wrote Thanks alot

**peter wanjohi**: *on* 3/22/17 at 6:39am UTC, wrote Dear Sir, I totally agree that experimental work (physical, mental as well...

**Donald Palmer**: *on* 3/12/17 at 14:45pm UTC, wrote Dear Peter, An interesting history of mathematics as it applies to...

**Satyavarapu Gupta**: *on* 3/11/17 at 19:41pm UTC, wrote Nice essay Prof Wanjohi, You have written a nice essay on mathematics...

RECENT FORUM POSTS

**Steve Dufourny**: "Hi Georgina and Mr Sturm, Mr Sturm , sad that you have a problem with..."
*in* The Present State of...

**Deserdi Chapas**: "Hi FQXI Members: We found the courage to asymptotically take one step..."
*in* Alternative Models of...

**Georgina Woodward**: "I'd like to share with you a thoroughly revised version of the shorter..."
*in* The Present State of...

**Steve Dufourny**: "I have improved a lot this theory of spherisation withe quantum and..."
*in* Alternative Models of...

**David Vognar**: "Quantum physics isn't the end of reality; we just need better rulers that..."
*in* Quantum Physics and the...

**algo rrithm**: "A digital marketing agency in India is showcasing that happens through Web..."
*in* Dark matter effect on the...

**algo rrithm**: "A branding agency in delhi is a firm having some expertise in the key and..."
*in* The secret of planets’...

**algo rrithm**: "Advanced advertising assists brands with arriving at their interest group..."
*in* Dark matter effect on the...

RECENT ARTICLES

*click titles to read articles*

**The Entropic Price of Building the Perfect Clock: Q&A with Natalia Ares**

Experiments investigating the thermodynamics of clocks can teach us about the origin of time's arrow.

**Schrödinger’s A.I. Could Test the Foundations of Reality**

Physicists lay out blueprints for running a 'Wigner's Friend' experiment using an artificial intelligence, built on a quantum computer, as an 'observer.'

**Expanding the Mind (Literally): Q&A with Karim Jerbi and Jordan O'Byrne**

Using a brain-computer interface to create a consciousness 'add-on' to help test Integrated Information Theory.

**Quanthoven's Fifth**

A quantum computer composes chart-topping music, programmed by physicists striving to understand consciousness.

**The Math of Consciousness: Q&A with Kobi Kremnitzer**

A meditating mathematician is developing a theory of conscious experience to help understand the boundary between the quantum and classical world.

RECENT FORUM POSTS

RECENT ARTICLES

Experiments investigating the thermodynamics of clocks can teach us about the origin of time's arrow.

Physicists lay out blueprints for running a 'Wigner's Friend' experiment using an artificial intelligence, built on a quantum computer, as an 'observer.'

Using a brain-computer interface to create a consciousness 'add-on' to help test Integrated Information Theory.

A quantum computer composes chart-topping music, programmed by physicists striving to understand consciousness.

A meditating mathematician is developing a theory of conscious experience to help understand the boundary between the quantum and classical world.

FQXi FORUM

January 29, 2023

CATEGORY:
Wandering Towards a Goal Essay Contest (2016-2017)
[back]

TOPIC: SUBSTITUTING MATHEMATICS FOR NATURE by peter wamai wanjohi [refresh]

TOPIC: SUBSTITUTING MATHEMATICS FOR NATURE by peter wamai wanjohi [refresh]

The axiom of extensionality states that two sets which contain the same elements are the same set; therefore the converse of the statement “substituting mathematics for nature” is also true. This essay, as the title suggests, is an attempt to show that the study of mathematics and that of nature, especially its physical descriptions, are intertwined.

Lives in Nairobi.Holds a masters in Public Health and working in public health administration as head of health research and coordination. Have written research papers in health in the course of official duty and researched physical questions privately in search of meaning. Married with four children

I was not clear how your thesis related to the topic: how mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention. Still, thank you for many interesting ideas in your essay. I enjoyed reading.

report post as inappropriate

report post as inappropriate

Dear peter wamai wanjohi,

Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.

I merely wish to point out that “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.

Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.

The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and perhaps comment on its merit.

Joe Fisher, Realist

report post as inappropriate

Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.

I merely wish to point out that “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.

Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.

The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and perhaps comment on its merit.

Joe Fisher, Realist

report post as inappropriate

Nice essay Prof Wanjohi,

You have written a nice essay on mathematics telling mathematics and nature are not different from each other, very good idea indeed!

……………… Dynamic Universe Model is a mathematical model for Universe. These mathematics show the bodies movement will be having a purpose…just have a look at my essay… “Distances, Locations, Ages and...

view entire post

You have written a nice essay on mathematics telling mathematics and nature are not different from each other, very good idea indeed!

……………… Dynamic Universe Model is a mathematical model for Universe. These mathematics show the bodies movement will be having a purpose…just have a look at my essay… “Distances, Locations, Ages and...

view entire post

report post as inappropriate

Dear Peter,

An interesting history of mathematics as it applies to physical reality.

Not sure how this relates to 'aims and intentions' unless it is your final statement that "mathematics produces a representation of physical reality."

I would disagree with this conclusion since no mathematical equation gives precisely and exactly the measurements of any experiment, to any degree of accuracy.

I will suggest mathematics is a generalizing science, which takes what is the same between objects or situations - between two sticks and two sheep and two stars (the concept of 'two' comes from this). It is the ability to generalize across many apparently different situations that gives mathematics great power, when applied to reality. However this same generalizing ability suggests it may not provide the uniqueness we find everywhere in reality.

You also leave out a number of issues with mathematics over history. Decimals did not appear in general use until about 500 years ago and the Pythagorean did not count sqrt(2) as an irrational number, as irrational numbers were not considered numbers until much more recently. There is also the 300 year discussion of how an infinity of infinitely small non-numbers can become a number (or value) that raged against the calculus. Mathematicians do not agree on many things, especially when infinity is involved (which comes into play with calculus and many more recent aspects).

Mathematics is not as pure nor as exact as you make it appear.

A good read about a number of aspects of mathematics and physics, just need to keep perspective that mathematics is another human endeavor with it's own problems and failures.

Don

report post as inappropriate

An interesting history of mathematics as it applies to physical reality.

Not sure how this relates to 'aims and intentions' unless it is your final statement that "mathematics produces a representation of physical reality."

I would disagree with this conclusion since no mathematical equation gives precisely and exactly the measurements of any experiment, to any degree of accuracy.

I will suggest mathematics is a generalizing science, which takes what is the same between objects or situations - between two sticks and two sheep and two stars (the concept of 'two' comes from this). It is the ability to generalize across many apparently different situations that gives mathematics great power, when applied to reality. However this same generalizing ability suggests it may not provide the uniqueness we find everywhere in reality.

You also leave out a number of issues with mathematics over history. Decimals did not appear in general use until about 500 years ago and the Pythagorean did not count sqrt(2) as an irrational number, as irrational numbers were not considered numbers until much more recently. There is also the 300 year discussion of how an infinity of infinitely small non-numbers can become a number (or value) that raged against the calculus. Mathematicians do not agree on many things, especially when infinity is involved (which comes into play with calculus and many more recent aspects).

Mathematics is not as pure nor as exact as you make it appear.

A good read about a number of aspects of mathematics and physics, just need to keep perspective that mathematics is another human endeavor with it's own problems and failures.

Don

report post as inappropriate

Dear Sir,

I totally agree that experimental work (physical, mental as well as innovation) usually does it for man's quest in generating new knowledge ,solving problems and advancing technology.The argument i tried to present is that mathematical law often also lead to specific aims and intentions. This interchangeability between general and particular lawfulness means mathematics is an underlying principle. It is mostly the measurement that fails,not the mathematic e.g at the quantum scale due to uncertainty and at relativistic scale due to the distances involved.In those boundary conditions mathematics becomes the only viable option ;for example using differential equations to make physical predictions and thereby generate new physical laws.

I totally agree that experimental work (physical, mental as well as innovation) usually does it for man's quest in generating new knowledge ,solving problems and advancing technology.The argument i tried to present is that mathematical law often also lead to specific aims and intentions. This interchangeability between general and particular lawfulness means mathematics is an underlying principle. It is mostly the measurement that fails,not the mathematic e.g at the quantum scale due to uncertainty and at relativistic scale due to the distances involved.In those boundary conditions mathematics becomes the only viable option ;for example using differential equations to make physical predictions and thereby generate new physical laws.

Peter,

I found that an interesting, valid and well organized review of what seems like the yin and yang of the universe.

Do you think the real universal link here may be what we term 'geometry'?

I identify dynamic geometry a very valuable in decoding nature at ALL scales (me essay identifying an apparent important 3D dynamic extension of Pythagoras' theorem!)

I think your essay deserves a rather higher place and my score will help.

Best wishes

Peter

report post as inappropriate

I found that an interesting, valid and well organized review of what seems like the yin and yang of the universe.

Do you think the real universal link here may be what we term 'geometry'?

I identify dynamic geometry a very valuable in decoding nature at ALL scales (me essay identifying an apparent important 3D dynamic extension of Pythagoras' theorem!)

I think your essay deserves a rather higher place and my score will help.

Best wishes

Peter

report post as inappropriate

Dear Sirs!

Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of Newton returned as the New Cartesian Physic and promises to be a theory of everything. To tell you this good news I use «spam».

New Cartesian Physic based on the identity of space and matter. It showed that the formula of mass-energy equivalence comes from the pressure of the Universe, the flow of force which on the corpuscle is equal to the product of Planck's constant to the speed of light.

New Cartesian Physic has great potential for understanding the world. To show it, I ventured to give "materialistic explanations of the paranormal and supernatural" is the title of my essay.

Visit my essay, you will find there the New Cartesian Physic and make a short entry: "I believe that space is a matter" I will answer you in return. Can put me 1.

Sincerely,

Dizhechko Boris

report post as inappropriate

Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of Newton returned as the New Cartesian Physic and promises to be a theory of everything. To tell you this good news I use «spam».

New Cartesian Physic based on the identity of space and matter. It showed that the formula of mass-energy equivalence comes from the pressure of the Universe, the flow of force which on the corpuscle is equal to the product of Planck's constant to the speed of light.

New Cartesian Physic has great potential for understanding the world. To show it, I ventured to give "materialistic explanations of the paranormal and supernatural" is the title of my essay.

Visit my essay, you will find there the New Cartesian Physic and make a short entry: "I believe that space is a matter" I will answer you in return. Can put me 1.

Sincerely,

Dizhechko Boris

report post as inappropriate

Login or create account to post reply or comment.