Search FQXi

If you are aware of an interesting new academic paper (that has been published in a peer-reviewed journal or has appeared on the arXiv), a conference talk (at an official professional scientific meeting), an external blog post (by a professional scientist) or a news item (in the mainstream news media), which you think might make an interesting topic for an FQXi blog post, then please contact us at with a link to the original source and a sentence about why you think that the work is worthy of discussion. Please note that we receive many such suggestions and while we endeavour to respond to them, we may not be able to reply to all suggestions.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Contests Home

Previous Contests

What Is “Fundamental”
October 28, 2017 to January 22, 2018
Sponsored by the Fetzer Franklin Fund and The Peter & Patricia Gruber Foundation

Wandering Towards a Goal
How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?
December 2, 2016 to March 3, 2017
Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.

Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics
Contest Partners: Nanotronics Imaging, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, and The John Templeton Foundation
Media Partner: Scientific American


How Should Humanity Steer the Future?
January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014
Contest Partners: Jaan Tallinn, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, The John Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American

It From Bit or Bit From It
March 25 - June 28, 2013
Contest Partners: The Gruber Foundation, J. Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American

Questioning the Foundations
Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?
May 24 - August 31, 2012
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, SubMeta, and Scientific American

Is Reality Digital or Analog?
November 2010 - February 2011
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation and Scientific American

What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?
May - October 2009
Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams

The Nature of Time
August - December 2008

Forum Home
Terms of Use

Order posts by:
 chronological order
 most recent first

Posts by the author are highlighted in orange; posts by FQXi Members are highlighted in blue.

By using the FQXi Forum, you acknowledge reading and agree to abide by the Terms of Use

 RSS feed | RSS help

Michael Deans: on 3/6/11 at 22:14pm UTC, wrote Dear Kyle, Please review my essay 'The chip in the brain', it contains an...

amrit: on 12/25/08 at 10:12am UTC, wrote Hi Klinton In atemporal space there is always present. Universe exist into...

Narendra: on 12/25/08 at 8:04am UTC, wrote Kyle, Missed you for nearly a month after the last post. There is a...

Narendra Nath: on 11/25/08 at 6:51am UTC, wrote Dear Kyle & Le Roux, My lost post agreed with Kyle's suggestion that the...

F. Le Roux: on 11/24/08 at 23:23pm UTC, wrote My idea of Time is very different from the Indian idea of Time, Narendra...

Narendra: on 11/23/08 at 7:31am UTC, wrote I lost my posting for the second time because of server connectivity....

Narendra: on 11/22/08 at 13:19pm UTC, wrote Read your also post and also glanced through the two reprints enclosed. The...


kurt stocklmeir: "gravity associated with gas and gas running into stars can change orbit of..." in Alternative Models of...

Joe Fisher: "One real visible Universe must only have one real visible appearance...." in Why This Universe?

Pop News: "These questions are amazing loving them... International Yoga Day 2018" in Why This Universe?

Patrik Miertviezky: "Hello everybody! My name is Patrik and i am 26 years old girl from Europe...." in Time in Physics & Entropy...

Rachelle Marie: "The lengthy form of the meeting, available on the page, you can similarly..." in Podcast Up: Interacting...

jhon dwayne: "If any customer face problem during window installing then he can call our..." in Manipulating the Quantum...

jhon dwayne: "If any customer face problem during window installing then he can call our..." in Manipulating the Quantum...

kurt stocklmeir: "there is a lot of gas between galaxies - there are a lot of small galaxies..." in Alternative Models of...

click titles to read articles

Fuzzballs v Black Holes
A radical theory replaces the cosmic crunchers with fuzzy quantum spheres, potentially solving the black-hole information paradox and explaining away the Big Bang and the origin of time.

Whose Physics Is It Anyway? Q&A with Chanda Prescod-Weinstein
Why physics and astronomy communities must take diversity issues seriously in order to do good science.

Why Time Might Not Be an Illusion
Einstein’s relativity pushes physicists towards a picture of the universe as a block, in which the past, present, and future all exist on the same footing; but maybe that shift in thinking has gone too far.

The Complexity Conundrum
Resolving the black hole firewall paradox—by calculating what a real astronaut would compute at the black hole's edge.

Quantum Dream Time
Defining a ‘quantum clock’ and a 'quantum ruler' could help those attempting to unify physics—and solve the mystery of vanishing time.

June 22, 2018

CATEGORY: The Nature of Time Essay Contest (2008) [back]
TOPIC: The Here-and-Now by Clinton Kyle Miller [refresh]
Bookmark and Share
Login or create account to post reply or comment.

Clinton Kyle Miller wrote on Sep. 23, 2008 @ 13:33 GMT
Essay Abstract

The following essay puts forward an academic conception of the here-and-now or "present moment." It is then identified as coincident to both our subjective moments and Nature. We then use this conjecture to construct a scientific and objective world-view, based on our human biology, to answer the question "what is reality?" First, time and the laws of physics are discussed, using the question "what is the nature of time?" The initial conditions of our universe--the cosmic microwave background radiation--are pinpointed as the origin of our perceived "arrow of time." Then, the nature of time is deemed subjective. Second, the objectivity of scientific physical theories is reviewed; here physical limitations and subjective assumptions are shown to impede this modality. Third, the importance of experimental empirical information for an objective world-view is stressed with examples. Next, the notion of an external objective reality is addressed and refuted on objective grounds. Lastly, a world-view centered on the here-and-now is created using a novel criterion. In the final discussion, the author reflects on the significance of human "positive psychology"--as it pertains to forwarding the human condition using a world-view rooted in the here-and-now.

Author Bio

Clinton "Kyle" Miller attends the University of Wisconsin at Madison. He is 20 years old, and was born in California. When not attending college, he lives with his family in Greenwich Connecticut. His interests vary greatly--from snowboarding, hiking and swimming to art, camping out with his friends, and his passion science.

The essay PDF file has been removed at the request of the author.

Bookmark and Share
this post has been edited by the forum administrator

juan ramos wrote on Sep. 25, 2008 @ 08:55 GMT
great essay.

I would like some further development arround the "free will" concept.

How "free will" changes "here and now"?

Bookmark and Share

John Merryman wrote on Sep. 29, 2008 @ 02:58 GMT

The most effective model I find for understanding reality is the convection cycle, as exemplified in Complexity Theory. Bottom up process is the energy that expands outward until it cools and coagulates into the top down order and structure which provides the frame which that expanding energy motivates and keeps from completely falling inward. Physics projects these two directions to...

view entire post

Bookmark and Share

John Merryman wrote on Oct. 2, 2008 @ 18:47 GMT

Pagels has always been one of my favorite authors, though it's been decades since I read him. I'm not a physicist, just someone for whom curiosity has been a primary emotion.

There is a fundamental Catch 22 that makes reality a tough knot to untie. The better we get at understanding the enormity of the situation, the more overwhelming it seems. This manifests itself in many...

view entire post

Bookmark and Share

John Merryman wrote on Oct. 4, 2008 @ 00:59 GMT

To the extent you distinguish between "scientific idea" and "explanatory (language-based) tool used to describe our situation," I suppose it falls in the latter category, as I don't have a PhD.

A possible schematic might be to describe time as an arrow(>) going forward, while we can really only see what is past(

Bookmark and Share

John Merryman wrote on Oct. 4, 2008 @ 01:02 GMT
That didn't fully download!


A possible schematic might be to describe time as an arrow(>) going forward, while we can really only see what is past(

Bookmark and Share

Anonymous wrote on Oct. 4, 2008 @ 01:05 GMT
Must be something about parentheses and arrows together;


A possible schematic might be to describe time as an arrow > going forward, while we can really only see what is past

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate

John Merryman wrote on Oct. 4, 2008 @ 02:13 GMT
, so our understanding of time is the present as the point between these two arrows, , but if time is effect, not cause, another way to look at it is as both the order of the past and the energy which decides the future meeting to create the here and now, >

Bookmark and Share

Anonymous wrote on Oct. 4, 2008 @ 06:14 GMT
Grrrr is right

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate

John Merryman wrote on Oct. 9, 2008 @ 01:21 GMT
Guess I'll try to finish that thought without the arrows;

Currently the classic view of time is the present on a line/dimension, with the past in one direction and the future in the other, but if it is an effect of motion, rather then cause, it is best described by Complexity Theory and all elements are contained within, rather than projected out. This is the intersection of top down order, as the information which once created is replaced by the next event, thus going from future potential to past circumstance. While bottom up process is the energy which forms these informational packets, then replaces them, thus going from past events to future ones.

As I mentioned in correspondence, the information which goes future to past and the energy that goes past to future are essentially two sides of the same coin, so it would be impossible to have one without the other, as information defines the energy which manifests it. This precludes the existence of laws of nature which are not manifest, as that would be information without energy. The reason such definition is frequently repetitive and thus seemingly independent of circumstance is that identical cause yields identical effect, as the expanding energy and collapsing structure of this energy/information relationship interacts.

Bookmark and Share

Dr.NN wrote on Oct. 9, 2008 @ 08:44 GMT
Dear dear Kyle,

So far , i have still to go through full essay in detail. But you have impressed me deeply for the depth of insight you possess already at such a young young age. It seems prodigeous inborn quality/trait you possess! You seem to like the ending of my main essay. May i request you to go through my two attached mss too that were posted later on by me. Meanwhile i promise to comment further after going through the full text of your essay. Love

Bookmark and Share

narendra wrote on Oct. 9, 2008 @ 10:54 GMT
Let me refer you to the posting you made on MSS in the essay posting of Dr.H. Nikolic on ' Block Time'. In fact i saw your comments there as you pointed out your discussion on 'consciousness' in your own essay. it has made me very happy to see that you are well ahead of all the other essay contributors by well exceeding the 10 public votes already! At least i am happy to see the scenario as the more child-like amongst us wins the race! Bravo, keep it up by attempting to comment on other essays too in your own manner.

Bookmark and Share

dr,nn/narendra wrote on Oct. 10, 2008 @ 00:12 GMT
Lengthy comments seem to be the result of lack of clarity of one's mind. Originality rests in peace and quiet, sort of thoughtless state of mind. Silence contains noise but not vice-versa. Order contains disorder/chaos but not vice versa. May be it will help us all to participate in the essay contest with some calmness and patience, attempting to comprehend as much before attempting to comment. This may help remove most of our ill-conceived biases.

Bookmark and Share

Narendra Nath wrote on Oct. 16, 2008 @ 05:38 GMT
Dear Klinton and other postings on your essay,

In fact, i find long comments on your essay as well as of some others. The common thing i note is that each individual is trying to sell his essay or postings. Ours is a competition at the level of high degree of understanding about both science and consciousness. If i may add it involves the level of Spirituality (not religion) we possess by...

view entire post

Bookmark and Share

Narendra Nath wrote on Oct. 16, 2008 @ 13:35 GMT
i don't understand if Kyle is responding to my post of Oct 16, perhaps not. It seems he is qualifying his own essay further. To me the latest post isn't clear in its objective. I don't see any decoupling in the universe after 400,000 yrs. of the start, i.e. about 1/2 billion later. In fact, the lightest of elements started to form from the primordial matter around that time and hence there were signals of light from excited/ionised atoms of H / He. There appears to be no connection with black holes,as these could not have formed at that time. The first star of light nuclei congregation is supposed to form around 1/2 to 1 billion years. before that the universe was in the dark age.

However, dark matter and energy have been present from the start of the universe along with the baryon matter of the visible part of the Universe. The dark matter and its influence on visible matter through dark energy was giving rise to accelerated expansion of the Universe.

Consciousness connection with Planck scale and memory appears far fledged. Yes, consciousness being all pervading and eternal in nature is ever present even when Universe did not exist. Human consciousness evolved when humans got created some 30,000 thousand years form today. It must have also out from cosmic or universal consciousness.

The comment that Nature changes its mind faster than humans is not for humans to contemplate, as we ourselves resulted from a manifestation of cosmic consciousness, as per the latter's intelligent design for the Universe start from the very beginning!

Bookmark and Share

Narendra wrote on Oct. 19, 2008 @ 04:57 GMT

i am happy to see your response. Big-bang is currently holding better than the previous theories of Universe creation only because of WMAP measurements available thus far. You and i agree within the domain of these measurements and the Big-bang theory. However, speculation regarding 'causation' having speed of light can't be postulated as the consciousness behind it is not known. It is not physical in natute in the sense of the Universe as 'causation' itself may caused the creation of the universe. There has to be a precursor in the form of a 'Potential Unified Field' having an intelligence about the ceration of the universe and other 'intelligence' we are not presently able to comprehend. It has to be a very very powerful field compared to the four Physical fields we talk of currently in Physics. Kindly see the perspectives i have attempted in my main esssay in this regard. Your objections on these perspectives, as well as that of public as well as other authors/experts that i am eagerly seeking through my essay presentation. i am sure my perpectives may get discarded as specific cosmic measurements about the early Universe, first half-billion years of Bigbang may become possible! Comments are the only way our discussions can help clear the mysteries that surely exist for science to persue!

Bookmark and Share

Narendra wrote on Oct. 21, 2008 @ 16:38 GMT
To CKM, to elaborate a bit more of what i have understood thus far about 'consciousness',may i request you to note that i addressed you first on Oct9 posting as 'dear dear ' and ended thst post with 'love'. These came spontaneously to me in view of our ages, 76 and 20 yrs. It usual to see that grandparents have special preference for grandchildren compared to their children. Such emotions didn't not direct me. I felt like your teacher and you as my favorite student! My expressions were a part of my state of being vis-a-vis yourself. I felt well connected with you via cosmic consciousness. The 'love' is far beyond the emotional physical feeling. It is the one that unites us as part of the same humanity the world over. Both student and teacher are learners, the latter may happen to possess a bit more maturity that's all, if at all! When individual consciousness connects better with universal consciousness, the strength of life force for the individual concerned gets boosted. Such is the nature of consciousness! Both the quotes from Patanjali's Yoga are relevant for scientists as also for any human being. We need not identify our body brain with consciousness. Even the human mind reflects it in a limited manner. Consciousness is what must have always existed, exists and will continue to exist irrespective of the Universe and we humans. Even so-called non-living matter may possess a lower form of it. It pervades every where and it seems to be uncreated, with capability of all creation and destruction. Yoga & meditation are the techniques that are considered helpful in enhancing one's level of consciousness and the quote " God created humans in His own image " becomes relevant in that context.

Gravitational field is a kind of field as also the other three postulated. What is unique thus far about 'Gravitation' is that it is not getting unified with the three other field forms so that we may consider all of the four to have emerged out of the Unified field, as per the requirements of the 'designed creation ' of the Universe.

Bookmark and Share

Narendra nath wrote on Oct. 22, 2008 @ 10:12 GMT
To CKM and other authors of the essays too,

i am happy to see the oneness of spirit between us. The same actually holds for the entire universe if consciousness is the source of all things physical and non-physical.Let us not worry if we understand or misunderstand one another.Just be happy and keep others happy too. If opposites are taken as complimentary, the differences disappear. Silence contains the real truth and more & more words can only confuse us about the truth. Just experience it in silence, in vacuum, in total freedom and leave the rest in dump.

More the terms, more the variables and more the complications that arise in mathematical formulations.Simplest provides profoundness. Let us love Nature and all it has to offer. Answers to queries will come and go as life proceeds, live 'now and here' as best as one can!

Bookmark and Share

Matti Pitkänen wrote on Oct. 23, 2008 @ 10:02 GMT
Dear Kyle,

thank you for a beautiful essay.

I liked especially the manner you explained "subjective" and "objective". I have accepted that theoreticians never agree and also realized that there is nothing bad in this. Therefore I wanted to make some ontology related comments in this spirit. I know that ontology is the ultimate mine field but I hope we can still remain...

view entire post

Bookmark and Share

narendra nath wrote on Oct. 24, 2008 @ 06:17 GMT

lovely poetic composition. it reflects the living in the every moment indepedently, noting what nature offers us, admiring the beauty with utter innocence but discriminating deeply when trying to interpret an explanation of how something is happening. 'Why' is difficult to answer , as Nature is not answerable to us while we are answerable to Nature!

When doing science, we need to be as broad-based as possible, no prior biases, precepts and concepts relevant toa problem to be carefully worked out, before any mathematical/geometrical/ diagrammatical tool is utilised. There lies the significance of the state of mind of the scientist as he does go about his work and study!

Bookmark and Share

Narendra nath wrote on Oct. 28, 2008 @ 01:53 GMT
What a beauty you have cartooned out of the men and the mountain. The pun on US senators appears a bit cynical. We need to love all, independent of the way one does one's job. Consciousness in fact not only unites the Human race but the entire creation within the Universe!

I have posted a general comment post on the theme of the Essays ' The Nature of Time'. i now forgot on which essay i have posted. Kindly look at the essays that have more postings and you may find it somewhere. i want you to provide your opinion on the same.

Bookmark and Share

Narendra Nath wrote on Oct. 30, 2008 @ 05:52 GMT
Kyle, i have been admiring your courage in dealing with the oldies on your posts on other essays too. Keep it up, as you act positively, thanks to 'here and now' or in other words 100% living in the present!

i think the post i refered to was made on the essay of Dr Carlo Rovelli. He is still to respond and i noted your interjection! Below i mention a few observations on 'consciousness':-

There are five levels, waking, dreaming, deep sleep, meditation and cosmic. The first three are experienced by all, while the fourth can be culvitated or one may be born with. The last is the ultimate and one may have glimpses of the same through the fourth level. Meditation is 'beingness without localism'. The proof lies in being fresh,sensitive, awake but restful.Opposing forces appear complimentary, anxiety (future) and tension(past)go away and one lives 100% in the present moment! All-embracing love follows and each cell of the body is alive with full life-force. Clarity and innovation follows as complexities vanish along with I-ego.Both intuitive and inspirational thinking dawns, as ignorance is replaced by wisdom.

Bookmark and Share

Narendra Nath wrote on Nov. 4, 2008 @ 09:01 GMT
My last posting of Oct 30 continues to the last on your essay! Thus, it is impertinent for me to sign in again. In fact , i re-read your essay today and felt i have something to share. Let me give the same pointwise below:-

1.It is difficult but not impossible to know about the first 0.4 billion years about our Universe. In my essay, i have conjectured the primordial matter to consist of heavy neutral quarks that decayed quickly to the the fractional charged quarks currently known from Particle Physics. Also, the dark matter being non-baryonic, it most likely to be constituted by such Quarks, frozen as such. Then, visible universe gradually resulted in the nuclei of light elements like H and He. These are the ones we need to look for prior to the formation of the first star around 0.5 to 1 billion years after the start. Such searches are possible but very difficult as one needs to go to the farthest steller objects lying 13 billion years back in time! Only the telescopes looking at various e.m. parts of the spectra, installed at moon or beyond will enable such data to be observed even today!

2. Science can't test causation, as it only answers how and not why. Why's are the Nature's own logic evolution, with no control, except of cosmic consciousness itself! Getting the value of 'Pi' is merely a calculative problem, which will always remain limited to our capapbility to calculate. No more significance need be attached to it.

3.Objective/subjective duality is intrinsic to the universe as perceived by us, the observer/observed duality. To this one may even add a third element ' the process of observation'. If the process of observation takes care of both the individual and cosmic consciousness together, things can change!

4. Connecting consciousness to what we call Quantum Theory of the day and then invoking Planck's scale to work out quantum nature of consciousness, is really like giving dominance to Q.M. over the non-physical entity 'consciousness'. 25 millisec. gamma-synchron is not verifiable from Neurological studies. It is also in conflict with the ideas of telepathy, intuition, miracles like prior information or inkling a human brain is able to develop! Kindly note a mention of Prof. Ecless, Nobel Winner neurologist, where he talks about the neuron activity in the SMA of brain, as none was expected from within. He then postulates an artificail covering around SMA of brain that intercepts and records outside influences on neurons. That information never dies as the non-physical sheath does not die with the body/brain!

5. In your triangle, the body and mind needs triangulation with consciousness, which need not be 'The Planck Scale'.

Bookmark and Share

NN wrote on Nov. 13, 2008 @ 05:05 GMT
Dear Kyle,

hope you are gone from this site temporarily as i didn't receive response to last post of Nov.04. May i also request that you find time to go to other MSS i posted on my essay site soon after the main essay MSS got posted. These are ' Science Interface with Spirituality' and ' Inconstancy of the Physical Constants and Strengths of the Force-fields'. Spirituality may be treated as 'consciousness' if you are allergic to its 'wrong' association with the religions in this world! My essay MSS is really the third in the series i penned down after experiencing ' broadening ' of my perspectives following meditation cum Yoga practice!

Bookmark and Share

Don Limuti wrote on Nov. 14, 2008 @ 08:23 GMT
Your essay was a delight to read.

I was also pleased to note the respected shown to Heinz Pagels by yourself and as shown in the various posts.

I was worried that I was the only one who appreciated him.

Good Luck.

Bookmark and Share

F. Le Rouge wrote on Nov. 14, 2008 @ 10:30 GMT
I do agree with you, Clinton Miller, that the question of Time is an unsolved question that is blocking modern science.

This question drives obviously to the scientific method and the physics’ tools/language in which the subjectivity introduced by Time plays a great part.

In other words, as Zeno of Elea and Aristotle pointed it, Time is the less objective ‘thing’ in the...

view entire post

Bookmark and Share

Michael Sherbon wrote on Nov. 14, 2008 @ 22:16 GMT
Hi Kyle,

The essay and document very much remind me of a wonderful book by William Samuel,

The Child Within Us Lives!

A Synthesis of Science, Religion and Metaphysics

And from a review by Richard Fuller,

"The Child Within Us Lives!, by visionary and philosopher William Samuel, pulls together the true nature of things, particularly time, space, matter and awareness (life). The result is a deeply meaningful perception of our original nature, the child within."

This really is "new" to me, and thanks for writing it.

Bookmark and Share

Narendra wrote on Nov. 15, 2008 @ 06:42 GMT
Welcome back , Kyle. Your presence on the site is refreshing as you possess perhaps the maximum 'child-like' nature amongst us all in this essay competition. i shall get back to you after studying your 1 1/2 page on 'consciousness'.

Bookmark and Share

Narendra wrote on Nov. 16, 2008 @ 09:22 GMT
Dear Kyle, your note on 'consciousness' is well presented. However, you have kept its scope limited to the three stages of wakefulness, dream and dep sleep only. There is a comprehensive aspect of it beyond the human beings (few thousands yrs. of existence) that links to the creation of the universe itself. It is clear that nothing physical has led to the creation of the physical universe! Cosmic...

view entire post

Bookmark and Share

F. Le Rouge wrote on Nov. 16, 2008 @ 18:42 GMT
Once again your contradiction -Clinton Miller- is that you take the more subjective theoretical statement, Einstein’s Theory, to prove that there is a break between objective Nature and subjective Scientific language. Although the break is between objective Nature and MODERN Science. That is to say C.K. Miller is himself prisoner of the vicious circle that I call ‘Teleology’.

The matter becomes ‘wave’ or ‘flow’ through the Algebraic tool which is an approximations successives of Nature phenomenons that became model idea (see my own statement on this forum for more details -‘Square Wheels Or Real Dynamics?’). Or:a Snowboard idea of Snow that becomes Board.

The paradoxes are obvious in the Algebra, not in the Matter, especially the paralogism of the ‘Standard model’. The lack of dynamism is included is this word ‘standard’. If you think ‘standard’, you will deduce a standardized Nature and this is the Quest for Higgs Boson!

- Dr Narendrah Nath should notice that starting from an opposed postulate, suggesting to let the Time and ‘cognition’ on one side, Dr C. Rovelli is adopting temperature scale at the end, chemical/biological analogy like C. Miller. Rovelli is driving the Subjectivity off but he does need a scale nevertheless. But the Scale IS Subjectivity.

C. Miller at is turn is fighting the Time with his ‘here and now’, but ‘here and now’ is ‘Past Time’ again coming back like a boomerang, not ‘Present-Time’ (about the same ‘here and now’-Time that ‘Quanta Physics’ is translating in Future-Time!).

Furthermore, asking the question of the Nature of Time in the framework of ‘Quanta Physics’ or Einstein’s theories is like asking the question of Light. Time which is everywhere now has been introduced by the studies and experiences on Light in France and England during the XVIIth Century (especially R. Descartes, C. Huygens, I. Newton).

Bookmark and Share

Narendra Nath wrote on Nov. 17, 2008 @ 12:38 GMT
Dear Kyle,

Nice to see that you have broadened your outlook a bit. However, i find you don't care to look at the eastern philosophies of Zen, Buddhism and the ancient litrature i cited for you from India.i even provided a reference of Max Mueller, the well-known German Philosopher cum Theologist who extensively translated the ancient Indian scriptures for the convenience of the Western world. UNless we open up ourselves to all the knowledge available today, how can one be sure about new cotributions, original or amended in a different language format. Words are often found to be inadequate to reflect the level of one's own thinking, what to say of others! Often i feel language/vocubulary needs to grow constantly if we hope to achieve something unique/innovative. The well known facts from the History of Science indicate taht many a great scientists were not understood or appreciated for great lengths of time, untill some others came on the scene to project those works in a different language so as to be better understood. When i was in USA during my graduation, i was told H.A. Bethe could not be understood until Weisskopf explained what Bethe had done!

Patajali Yoga Shastra surely will be available in the University Library of the University of Wisconsin. Only then you may appreciate how Pitanjali was able to comprehend the intricate relationship between the observer, the process of observation and the object under observation ( he called it 'cognition')way back 3000 yrs. back!. The subtle distinctions we are all attempting to make to define 'consciousness' is a mere intellectual exercise, rather any understanding in depth about this non-physical entity. Can one who is a creation by the 'other', ever comprehend the latter exhaustively or very positively?

Please do not mind if i appear blunt in my comments here, as i genuinely appreciate your originality in many other ways. None of us has the capability of a finality about fundamental matters!Even a majority in such matters can well be proven wrong one day. That is how TIME operates on all of us, truly a wonder!

Bookmark and Share

F. Le Rouge wrote on Nov. 17, 2008 @ 22:48 GMT
I read your answer Clinton Miller that says: 'my 'here and now' is maybe part of the past but not only? That is splitting the split! Are you joking?

The subjective idea of Time we are turning around is Algebraic time, that is to say a reference where 'Past' is a vector, 'Future' another one and 'Present' the dot between the two vectors. On this level of subjectivity, Zeno of Elea proved that you can do away with motion and time in dividing the speed vectors 'ad infinitum'; symmetric of Zeno's demonstration is Einstein one.

One can make a figure of your 'here and now' using Riemann's algebraic sphere. But why not temperature scale? You just need a board.

What about intersubjective experiences now? The risk is autosuggestion in my opinion. And I am sure you will agree that computing many equivalent subjective ideas is not Dynamics.

An example: thermic laws are going both directions:decreasing when you sleep or increasing when you make an effort: here you have two subjective ideas of time that is going faster when you make snowboard (I do not and may be the snow is giving the idea of eternity in this sport?) and slowly when you are sleeping. And you, CKM are picking the death, which is properly an 'event', your 'here and now': it is autosuggestion in my opinion and Dr Narendra Nath will tell you that death is a new birth (and you have trigonometry).

But your example of one clock seen by two people is a good example of common autosuggestion of objective Time too. If nobody had the idea of making clocks, many other tools could have give us the same idea of objective time such as a sun-dial.

Bookmark and Share

Anonymous wrote on Nov. 18, 2008 @ 02:16 GMT
Causal Explanations in Thermodynamics...

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate

Anonymous wrote on Nov. 18, 2008 @ 02:18 GMT

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate

Nath wrote on Nov. 18, 2008 @ 05:21 GMT
Dear Kyle & LeRouge,

Let us come out of the biases that often become so much a natural part of ours that we don't see them so anymore. This requires a very strong training of the human mind. The quotes of Patanjali i made in my essay just indicate how very very difficult it is to get the mind to work beyond the distractions we all have. That is where Yoga cum meditation can help, but individual experiences may still differ as one doesn't truly surrender to the 'total knowledge' of the 'cosmic consciousness'. We all agree that science is rationality but we human beings can't get rid of 'emotionality' that gets reflected through our biases!

i tender my unqualified apology if the above comment appears like a sermon, i have no right to give to others!

Bookmark and Share

Narendra wrote on Nov. 18, 2008 @ 14:29 GMT
Dear Kyle,

Kindly see my post of Nov., 13 on my own essay too. Also, reading literature is one aspect, the other concern the comprehension of the same. There we all may show differnt reactions to the same literature, as we comprehend the same according to our orientation of up-bringing, education and individual experiences in our lives.We can not hope for finality in any argument/reasoning, but we can approach a higher level towards relative truth by critical self analysis based on own experiences.

Bookmark and Share

F. Le Rouge wrote on Nov. 19, 2008 @ 13:02 GMT
Are you sure, CKM, that the algebraic language, the angle made by ‘vector time’ and ‘vector space’ is the metaphor for ‘hic et nunc’ or ‘hic et nunc’ is the metaphor for algebraic language? Last one is my opinion contrarily.

In fact I do not doubt that Paris where I am is real; I do no doubt of my binary computer and keyboard either... But the 'now'? My intuition is that it is nothing else than a conventional word that makes the debate possible between three people like you, me and Narendra Nath for instance, but that is hiding different subjective ideas of time, related to different cultures and personal experiences. The dot is the consistency of your 'now' in other words, but there is no consistency in a dot.

Your 'here and now' do recall the latin culture as the 'ultima necat' just before. But Plato’s idea about Time is not Aristotle’s one, different from Zeno of Elea, who is not thinking like Zarathoustra, very different from M. Heidegger or K. Marx, not to speak about French M. Proust… (See Bergson’s idea of 'duration' taken by Christine Dantas, close at hand of your idea.)

What I try to explain about algebra or arithmetic language is that although it seems to be the more neutral language that make intercultural debate possible, that do suggest objectivity too, it is the less neutral and the more subjective (contrarily to other languages, geometry first of all, but not only).

This suggested idea of neutrality and objectivity made Einstein’s theories possible for instance and the ‘travel in time’, especially the theory based on one ‘here and now’ (simultaneity) recorded by two different observers, a theory where the subjectivity through algebra becomes more natural than Nature is. Special and General theories are based on algebraic autosuggestion and ‘Higgs Boson’ hypothesis too.

Last point is about the thermic or temperature scale you and C. Rovelli at least want to use instead of time/space ratio. In my opinion it is coming from the fact that you ‘feel’ that the speed ratio is not ‘natural’. But temperature is as much intimate and subjective as time is, although this scale is less commonly used -it is by Helmholtz in his ‘experiences’ on gas particles.

But the key is not here, it is in the fact that ‘space scale’ is governed by two opposite ideas: idea of 'full space' and idea of 'empty space'.

- C. Huygens and his friend acting ‘in loco parentis’ R. Descartes ‘think’ space in terms of ‘empty space’;

- I. Newton their ‘opponent’ ‘think’ either in terms of ‘full space’ or in terms of ‘empty space’… in the ‘inspiration’ of sun light.

What is tempting in Helmholtz thermic scale is the idea of 'full space again', that disappeared due to Einstein theories and useless static ‘Probability theory’ that creates ‘fake time’ and 'fake matter' on this basis.

Bookmark and Share

Narendra wrote on Nov. 19, 2008 @ 17:18 GMT
Dear Kyle,

let me wish you the very best in your professional quests.Your response to me before the last post of F. Le Rouge is very apt and i wonder if you will care to respond again, for your studies demand a lot at your stage of life. All good luck!

Bookmark and Share

Narendra Nath wrote on Nov. 21, 2008 @ 11:31 GMT
To F. LeRouge's post above, it is interesting to distinguish between filled and empty space. What will you say about the emptiness of atom's structure when compared with mighty nucleus having almost the entire mass. To me, atom is empty except for the nucleus. At the microscopic level as well as at the macroscopic level of the Universe, i see empty space far far dominate over tiny specks of filled space. What will you make of it. i personally see that 'consciousness' is playing some sort of 'havoc' with Physics. To the human senses, we feel almost all space as filled. Just goes to show that we use words or terms just to play around in our physico-biological world while the reality lies with 'consciousness'- a non-physical entity! As some one felt that the science has ended or if i may add it has just begun to emerge!

Maay i hope our youngest friend , Kyle will speculate further on such aspects so that the humans have a better future in this Universe than what we have had thus far!

Bookmark and Share

Narendra wrote on Nov. 22, 2008 @ 13:19 GMT
Read your also post and also glanced through the two reprints enclosed. The Halographic quantum Geometry appeals to me more than the other paper concerned with Quantum Gravitational effects and Grsnd Unification. Yes, we truly are living in a virtual world generated by the non=physical 'consciousness'. Pure vibration free consciousness is beyond observation while its manifested vibrational consciousness is what appears as our Universe and all its contents , including the Human beings!Science presently is limited by what we can sense through our instruments.The accuracy and sensitivity is improving day by day and thus new facts /interpretations of observed facts are becoming possible. But this does limit us to reach even near the ultimate possibility, since costs will become tremendous, as are evident from the cost of Geneva Large Beam Collider.The present failure in beam sustenance is a small way the nature has indicated the forthcoming difficulties. These are all a product of human fancy but certainly there is a limit to it. The best Lab. given to us is the Nature of the Universe available to us. in my persona;l opinion, the better approach lies with Wilkinson Type telescopic probes put in outer space. These have already given us clues through Microwave Anisotropy of what little we know scientifically about our Universe. Carrying similar stations to the Moon and beyond are going to help better than earth based Accelerators! Cosmic radiations in space are also good indicators where we can see the particles not yet discovered or even postulated. In my essay,i have speculated on some of such possibilities!

Finally, i am convinced taht Human Mind is the best Laboratory that we have. Keeping it in the 'right mind' can help us a lot. For this we need to sacrifice the kind of high technology life we have built thus far in the human comforts. These have only increased human anxieties and tensions at the cost of 'Peace of Mind'. In a way, i hint at such points in my essay. As a scientist, i have fely how very important it is to value our Humanity over what scince has done for us thus far! Let us learn to match and balance the two, before the nature gives a final warning of doom/collapse. The current so-called financial/economic crisis is entirely due to human mistakes we have committed, ignoring to balance the technology with humanity in a way all the people the world over can assimilate in their life-styles. Living beyond one's means is just a small aspect of the same! Our future Science is also tied to it closely. There are things beyond the money wealth and we as humans need to do vigorous search for such 'wealth'!!

Bookmark and Share

Narendra wrote on Nov. 23, 2008 @ 07:31 GMT
I lost my posting for the second time because of server connectivity. Sunday it seems is a bad day. Kindly look up my posting of today at Paul Butler 's essay site, as it quotes your essay! I agree with Education being given today all our the world, more so in the developed nations of the west, specially USA. Because of your history being too recent, there is a tendency to ignore ancient wealth of Knowledge attained thousnads of years back in the east, including India. The reason is obvious as Europe and Asian civilizations took time to evolve much later, as Asia and Africa got colonised by the fire power emphasis in the west. being under slavery shuts oneself from the contemporary world. Now that the situaation has changed and both awareness and sanity appear to have been restored, Educational Curriculum need urgency for revision, in order to have greater peace and happiness alround the World.

Bookmark and Share

F. Le Roux wrote on Nov. 24, 2008 @ 23:23 GMT
My idea of Time is very different from the Indian idea of Time, Narendra Nath; And I could not say too as Clinton Miller, because of my French culture, that I live in a 'phenomenological world'.

Einstein is very close to this idea of 'phenomenological world' which is not far away from Indian's one.

Bookmark and Share

Narendra Nath wrote on Nov. 25, 2008 @ 06:51 GMT
Dear Kyle & Le Roux,

My lost post agreed with Kyle's suggestion that the educational system all over the world needs updating with the times we are living and going to live in the near future! Sorry, Le Roux, i am unable to comprehend your last post of Nov., 24 on Kyle's essay. Perhaps i am not apt at understanding French english! Sorry that is entirely my limitation. Whatever world we live in, phenomenological, real or virtual, IT is the same. Our MIND works differently and that is not in one's own control what to say about others!

As many many new essays have cropped up recently, it is becoming impossible to satisfy the due significance of the latter ones. That is my limitation at least, i wonder!

Bookmark and Share

Narendra wrote on Dec. 25, 2008 @ 08:04 GMT

Missed you for nearly a month after the last post. There is a composition on my site for you to read. You have sent me better peoms though your postings. What i find today is that the 'overdose' of some of the high technologies in use seem to dull the human mind. It is not able to have flights of freedom free from bias,as it was when most of our best Phyisc was developed the great ones we have had. We now mostly do parapheral jobs along with much of mathematical jugglary. i don't wish to sound harsh but that is my hunch! i have enjoyed my interactions with you, beverly and Stoica, all far youngers than me, an old foggy!There must be a common current that flows through us all. i have enjoyed this website essay contest for it has provided a common ground that is not currently available through the other means in use. Let us start to think about International web education to break the various barriers that have come up in the growth of both humanity and sciences. The world will be better place to live if we build such bridges, without having to fly by jet planes!

Bookmark and Share

amrit wrote on Dec. 25, 2008 @ 10:12 GMT
Hi Klinton

In atemporal space there is always present. Universe exist into present. Science main stream will get that in a few years.

yours amrit

attachments: 1_Time_Searching_of_Einstein_and_Buddha___Sorli__2009.doc

Bookmark and Share

Michael Thomas Deans wrote on Mar. 6, 2011 @ 22:14 GMT
Dear Kyle,

Please review my essay 'The chip in the brain', it contains an account of the biological clock and may interest you!


Michael Thomas Deans

Bookmark and Share
report post as inappropriate

Login or create account to post reply or comment.

Please enter your e-mail address:
Note: Joining the FQXi mailing list does not give you a login account or constitute membership in the organization.