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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

Jeffrey Schmitz: on 4/22/15 at 14:03pm UTC, wrote Peter, Thank you for reading my essay and the comments. When I saw the...

Peter Jackson: on 4/22/15 at 10:19am UTC, wrote Jeff Thanks for your kind comments on my essay. Reading yours I can see...

James Hoover: on 4/20/15 at 0:05am UTC, wrote Jeff, Thank you for your kind words, but especially for seriously reading...

James Hoover: on 4/13/15 at 17:48pm UTC, wrote Jeff, Time grows short, so I am revisiting essays I’ve read to assure...

Joe Fisher: on 4/10/15 at 14:40pm UTC, wrote Dear Michael, I think Newton was wrong about abstract gravity; Einstein...

Sujatha Jagannathan: on 4/5/15 at 16:51pm UTC, wrote actually I had commented naturally, but the compliment to you in your view...

Jeffrey Schmitz: on 4/3/15 at 0:38am UTC, wrote Bill, Thank you for reading my essay. Too many essays to read and too...

William Parsons: on 4/2/15 at 19:10pm UTC, wrote Hi Jeff-- I enjoyed reading your essay. You must have the best title of...


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FQXi FORUM
October 18, 2019

CATEGORY: Trick or Truth Essay Contest (2015) [back]
TOPIC: The smell of the Moon by Jeffrey Michael Schmitz [refresh]
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Author Jeffrey Michael Schmitz wrote on Mar. 12, 2015 @ 15:35 GMT
Essay Abstract

Mathematics is assumed to be a realm of pure thought, which would make the mathematical system alignment with Physics remarkable. I wish to show that human perception is part of mathematics and mathematics relationship to our current understanding of Physics is not a coincident.

Author Bio

Jeffrey Schmitz has his Masters in Physics from the University of Tennessee. He has taught Astronomy, Physics and Physical Science as an adjunct instructor at seven different colleges in and around Chicago.

Download Essay PDF File

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Anonymous wrote on Mar. 12, 2015 @ 21:50 GMT
Hi Jeffrey,

Your essay is a good read. You seem to be talking about the existence of a universal language underlying the individual differences in subjective experience of the world. Various animals would interpret the information in different ways, e.g. a dog might understand the moon in terms of smell, and we humans might represent our experience in various ways including mathematically. Is that a correct interpretation of what you are saying?

Lorraine Ford

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Lorraine Ford replied on Mar. 12, 2015 @ 21:52 GMT
The system logs you out very quickly! Above post was from me, Lorraine Ford

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Author Jeffrey Michael Schmitz replied on Mar. 13, 2015 @ 14:16 GMT
Lorraine,

Thank you for reading my essay. My point is that there is no true universal language. Mathematics might seem universal, but it is subjective. Choices are made about how we assign values and what rules are in the system. These choices are influence by many things including how we perceive the world.

Jeff Schmitz

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James Lee Hoover wrote on Mar. 13, 2015 @ 16:10 GMT
Jeffrey,

"The intersection between experiential Physics and Mathematics generates these new rules." Sort of a Ben Franklin "common sense." I feel like your essay is an exercise in heightened perception based on reason and common sense.

I thought my "Connections of Math, Physics and the Human Brain" was easy to follow but your is simple and elegant.

Jim

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Author Jeffrey Michael Schmitz wrote on Mar. 13, 2015 @ 17:29 GMT
Jim,

Thank you for reading my essay. I am looking forward to reading your essay. Age of reason and Ben Franklin, I hope my essay lives up to that high standard.

Jeff

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James Lee Hoover replied on Apr. 13, 2015 @ 17:48 GMT
Jeff,

Time grows short, so I am revisiting essays I’ve read to assure I’ve rated them. Some of us in retirement have the luxury of time. I find that I rated yours on 3/13, rating it as one I could immediately relate to. I hope you get a chance to look at mine: http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2345.

Jim

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Marcel-Marie LeBel wrote on Mar. 18, 2015 @ 02:59 GMT
Jeffrey,

“How we count things is the foundation of mathematics” a) before starting to count, you have to accept that each element counted does exist. Without realizing it, you have already accepted that the element passes the logical test of non-contradiction, i.e. it cannot exist and not exist at the same time. So, logic comes before counting. B) Does the universe care how WE count. How about how the universe counts? How does a planet add or acquire mass? By counting? Nope! It gains mass by acquiring matter from afar and by getting it closer to its center of mass. Addition, for the universe is about getting things together, closer. It is much like children learn in school by getting beads together in a pile. It is in fact a geometric operation. When they get older, they learn how to add the money in their pocket with that in their bank account … which is nothing real. The universe adds substance, not ideas or concepts. Logic without substance can’t produce a universe that lasted 13 billion years before we ever showed up … Nice essay. With logic, look for the substance… and loose some baggage;

Because of the speed limit of light, no two points of the Moon are at the same moment. That is the time the universe requires to connect those two the points. Consequently, the “Moon” is in fact just an aggregate of matter across time, not even an object! It becomes an object “Moon” only when I see it or conceive it as being there all at once, in a moment of perception. Lots of baggage to leave behind before understanding the underlying reality..

Good luck,

Marcel,

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Author Jeffrey Michael Schmitz wrote on Mar. 18, 2015 @ 04:15 GMT
Marcel,

Thank you for reading my essay out of so many in this topic.

Could counting exist without logic? Since I do not know how one could speak or think without logic, it seems possible. Because we have no way of going "outside" of logic we cannot know if counting is inside or outside of logic. Could the universe exist without logic? Yes, the universe was doing well long before humans or animals thinking or counting things. My essay was not about the universe it was about how we understand the universe. It was not about "truth", but perception. You are thinking big, but I wrote about the small.

Jeff

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Joe Fisher wrote on Mar. 25, 2015 @ 19:35 GMT
Dear Dr. Schmitz,

I have no wish to be disrespectful to you or to your essay, but I think that your statement that “Water”, “children and the “Moon” are not universal is incorrect for the following real reason:

Do let me know what you think about this: This is my single unified theorem of how the real Universe is occurring: Newton was wrong about abstract gravity; Einstein...

view entire post


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Author Jeffrey Michael Schmitz replied on Mar. 25, 2015 @ 22:52 GMT
Joe,

Thank you for reading my essay and thank you for incorrectly addressing me as doctor (I just have my Master's degree). I agree there is no space, because I can never find a parking space and you should see my office. Yes, everything is unique. My essay is about communication and how the physical world is represented. People who speak other languages do not use the same words for proper nouns as English. Yes, I am looking forward to reading your essay.

All the best,

Jeff

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Joe Fisher replied on Mar. 26, 2015 @ 15:10 GMT
Dear Jeff,

Thank you for not reporting to Fqxi.org that my comment was inappropriate and by doing so have the Administrator classify it as Obnoxious Spam and remove it.

Joe Fisher

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Edwin Eugene Klingman wrote on Mar. 31, 2015 @ 21:11 GMT
Dear Jeff,

You begin by noting just what a strange and limited language is mathematics, with examples 'pass the salt' and 'watch out', etc. Your examples of Roman versus Arabic numerals somewhat parallels Donald Palmer's essay, where he points out that modern science and technology would not be feasible (possible?) without the decimal number system. Typically the actual numeric system in use is glossed over.

I fully agree that counting (the physical implementation of Peano Axioms) leads to mathematics, producing the natural numbers and, per Kronecker, allowing man to build 'all the rest' of math. In my essay I elaborate on 'counters as key'. In one comment you ask "could counting exist without logic?" You seem to think yes, but in my essay I tend to think no. I view 'logic' not as mathematical argument, but as the basic fact of nature that allows AND and NOT gates to exist at every scale as fundamental physical structure, whether implemented at the level of protein, neuron, or silicon.

What I really enjoyed was your speculation about "language" in terms of other species or senses, from echolocation to dog's sense of smell. You make a fascinating point, re dogs use of 'smell' to communicate 'Moon', that "the Moon does not have a smell, but Democrat and Republican states are not actually red and blue."

Also like your statement "science cannot find truth, but can find understanding, and failure is an important tool in understanding."

I invite you to read my essay and welcome your comments.

Best regards,

Edwin Eugene Klingman

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Author Jeffrey Michael Schmitz replied on Mar. 31, 2015 @ 23:13 GMT
Mr. Klingman,

I am looking forward to reading your essay, I am currently far behind on my reading. Thank you for reading my essay. There is no way to tell if counting can exist without logic since my would need logic to prove (or disprove) this point. Counting without logic seems impossible, but can you prove it?

The idea that the Universe is built on "logic" or "mathematics" is the same as saying the Universe is built on the English language or images we see. You can not start with the assumption that the model is the thing itself. The model must be outside the system to prove the system. We might never be able to prove the Universe, but a useful model is a wonderful thing. You cannot map a forest while chained to one tree in that forest.

All the Best,

Jeff

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Sujatha Jagannathan wrote on Apr. 1, 2015 @ 12:02 GMT
A maestro in depicting the ideas on to the paper.

Great work!

-Sincerely,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Author Jeffrey Michael Schmitz replied on Apr. 1, 2015 @ 13:31 GMT
The date on this post is April fool's day and I am sure you posted this to all the other essays, but it did make me feel good. I wish I had as good of a review from a "real" post.

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Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Apr. 5, 2015 @ 16:51 GMT
actually I had commented naturally, but the compliment to you in your view actually happened it to be a prank!

Which I think a "real" april fool to you!

- Best Regards,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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William T. Parsons wrote on Apr. 2, 2015 @ 19:10 GMT
Hi Jeff--

I enjoyed reading your essay. You must have the best title of any essay in the contest. It is humorous and yet perfectly coveys the point of your message. Your distinction between mathematical and physical proof is exactly correct, in my opinion. As for non-logical communications, my guess is that's what Madhyamaka Buddhists (and others) think that they are doing when they meditate.

All-in-all, congratulations!

Best regards,

Bill.

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Author Jeffrey Michael Schmitz replied on Apr. 3, 2015 @ 00:38 GMT
Bill,

Thank you for reading my essay. Too many essays to read and too little time to read them all. My essay is about our limits of understanding, which many find as a sad thing, but I think limits are interesting. Perhaps you have found a case of non-logical communication (one hand clapping), now prove it. I see your essay is climbing the ratings, best of luck.

All the best,

Jeff

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Joe Fisher wrote on Apr. 10, 2015 @ 14:40 GMT
Dear Michael,

I think Newton was wrong about abstract gravity; Einstein was wrong about abstract space/time, and Hawking was wrong about the explosive capability of NOTHING.

All I ask is that you give my essay WHY THE REAL UNIVERSE IS NOT MATHEMATICAL a fair reading and that you allow me to answer any objections you may leave in my comment box about it.

Joe Fisher

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James Lee Hoover wrote on Apr. 20, 2015 @ 00:05 GMT
Jeff,

Thank you for your kind words, but especially for seriously reading my essay.

Jim

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Peter Jackson wrote on Apr. 22, 2015 @ 10:19 GMT
Jeff

Thanks for your kind comments on my essay. Reading yours I can see you're a perceptive 'out of the bigger box' thinker. I particularly liked;

'Mathematics  requires  your  trust  to  function.  It  is  up  to  you  to  decide  if  you  are  being  conned.'

'Science  cannot  find  truth,  but  can  find  understanding  and  failure  is  an  important  tool  in  understanding.'  

'It  is  hard  to  image  physics  without  mathematics, but  examples are all  around  us'

'If we wish to understand what the Moon is like we want to see pictures'

I find 3D pictures to be of massive importance, containing and rationalising great complexity and also highly memorable, adding motion is a multiplier. My video in an exercise in compresses 10 volumes of explanations and calculations into 9 minutes (though should be 30!) And yes; it's important new physics!

I also liked you reminder that Arabic numerals are not the only way of describing cardinalisation. I quite like the Mayan system, of simple symbols (dashes etc) where relative 'position' dictates function. When people get too pedantic about maths as the 'only' language of physics I sometimes compare the manipulations of ancient Arabic symbols we use to Tarot cards. If poorly used they can have equal meaning as descriptors of m natures mechanisms!

Anyway very well done. Shame it seems it won't be in the finalists even after my score.

Peter

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Author Jeffrey Michael Schmitz replied on Apr. 22, 2015 @ 14:03 GMT
Peter,

Thank you for reading my essay and the comments. When I saw the number of essays, I knew I did not have a chance.

Hope your essay does well,

Jeff

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