If you are aware of an interesting new academic paper (that has been published in a peer-reviewed journal or has appeared on the arXiv), a conference talk (at an official professional scientific meeting), an external blog post (by a professional scientist) or a news item (in the mainstream news media), which you think might make an interesting topic for an FQXi blog post, then please contact us at forums@fqxi.org with a link to the original source and a sentence about why you think that the work is worthy of discussion. Please note that we receive many such suggestions and while we endeavour to respond to them, we may not be able to reply to all suggestions.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

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Current Essay Contest

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**Undecidability, Uncomputability, and Unpredictability Essay Contest**

*December 24, 2019 - April 24, 2020*

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**What Is “Fundamental”**

*October 28, 2017 to January 22, 2018*

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**Wandering Towards a Goal**

How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?

*December 2, 2016 to March 3, 2017*

Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.

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**Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics**

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**How Should Humanity Steer the Future?**

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**Is Reality Digital or Analog?**

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**What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?**

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**The Nature of Time**

*August - December 2008*

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Current Essay Contest

Media Partner: Scientific American

Previous Contests

Contest Partners: Fetzer Franklin Fund, and The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?

Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fund.

read/discuss • winners

Media Partner: Scientific American

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?

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Introduction

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*Posts by the author are highlighted in orange; posts by FQXi Members are highlighted in blue.*

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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

**Joe Fisher**: *on* 4/7/15 at 15:30pm UTC, wrote Dear Carsten, I think Newton was wrong about abstract gravity; Einstein...

**Jacek Safuta**: *on* 3/11/15 at 15:52pm UTC, wrote Hi Carsten, As a student of physics you are supposed to be very open...

**Thierry PERIAT**: *on* 3/6/15 at 16:31pm UTC, wrote Sir, Thanks so much for your essay. I did appreciate the presentation and...

**Edwin Klingman**: *on* 3/4/15 at 22:47pm UTC, wrote Dear Carsten, Your essay is magnificent, and most of your conclusions are...

**Carsten Spanheimer**: *on* 3/4/15 at 17:23pm UTC, wrote **Essay Abstract** I propose to ask mathematics itself for the possible...

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FQXi FORUM

September 28, 2021

CATEGORY:
Trick or Truth Essay Contest (2015)
[back]

TOPIC: A Mathematical Approach to Physical Realism by Carsten S.P. Spanheimer [refresh]

TOPIC: A Mathematical Approach to Physical Realism by Carsten S.P. Spanheimer [refresh]

I propose to ask mathematics itself for the possible behaviour of nature, with the focus on starting with a most simple realistic model, employing a philosophy of investigation rather than invention when looking for a unified theory of physics. Doing a 'mathematical experiment' of putting a least set of conditions on a general time-dependent manifold results in mathematics itself inducing a not too complex 4-dimensional object similar to our physical spacetime, with candidates for gravitational and electromagnetic fields emerging on the tangent bundle. This suggests that the same physics might govern spacetime not only on a macroscopic scale, but also on the microscopic scale of elementary particles, with possible junctions to quantum mechanics.

The author, born in 1964, having a background of electronics, software engineering and general problem solving, is currently a student of physics at the University of Tübingen, Germany.

Dear Carsten,

Your essay is magnificent, and most of your conclusions are probably true. You began with math as our language to describe logical behavior. I believe that logic is a key feature of physical reality and that physical reality supports AND and NOT logic at every level of structure, and thus math applies at every level.

Your approach based on two axioms and the...

view entire post

Your essay is magnificent, and most of your conclusions are probably true. You began with math as our language to describe logical behavior. I believe that logic is a key feature of physical reality and that physical reality supports AND and NOT logic at every level of structure, and thus math applies at every level.

Your approach based on two axioms and the...

view entire post

report post as inappropriate

Sir,

Thanks so much for your essay. I did appreciate the presentation and at a deeper level the paragraph concerning the quaternions.

I agree with the idea that quaternions (and probably octonions) play a central role in the "fabrication" of a given geometry because they can be directly related to the gravitational term appearing in the Lorentz-Einstein law.

Perhaps my own approach (which is only one made by an amateur) can be helpfull for your own research:

The Differential of the Triad and the Extended Lie Products

Like you, I have presented an essay here.

Thierry PERIAT

report post as inappropriate

Thanks so much for your essay. I did appreciate the presentation and at a deeper level the paragraph concerning the quaternions.

I agree with the idea that quaternions (and probably octonions) play a central role in the "fabrication" of a given geometry because they can be directly related to the gravitational term appearing in the Lorentz-Einstein law.

Perhaps my own approach (which is only one made by an amateur) can be helpfull for your own research:

The Differential of the Triad and the Extended Lie Products

Like you, I have presented an essay here.

Thierry PERIAT

report post as inappropriate

Hi Carsten,

As a student of physics you are supposed to be very open minded. You ask questions and you are not attached to the existing paradigms. You propose: “…we know in advance that this will effectively come out as a (3+1) spacetime.” You are looking for axioms in physics. There were many attempts to formulate axioms in physics (D. Hilbert, J. von Neumann, L. Nordheim, H. Weyl, E. Schrödinger, P. Dirac, E. P. Wigner and others). All these efforts failed . That is a pity however a deductive system can consist of axioms or other, already established theorems. As far theorems were reserved exclusively for mathematics. That means that we can use theorems only if we accept that the reality is isomorphic to mathematical structures. (Not necessarily vice versa). I think you agree to that point.

My proposal is to use the geometrization conjecture, proved by Perelman (so it is a theorem). We have the set of 8 Thurston geometries. We can treat them as a space-like, totally geodesic submanifolds of a 3+1 dimensional spacetime… and get all interactions and matter.

If you are interested you can find details in my essay

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2452

I would appreciate your fresh view and comments. Thank you.

Jacek

report post as inappropriate

As a student of physics you are supposed to be very open minded. You ask questions and you are not attached to the existing paradigms. You propose: “…we know in advance that this will effectively come out as a (3+1) spacetime.” You are looking for axioms in physics. There were many attempts to formulate axioms in physics (D. Hilbert, J. von Neumann, L. Nordheim, H. Weyl, E. Schrödinger, P. Dirac, E. P. Wigner and others). All these efforts failed . That is a pity however a deductive system can consist of axioms or other, already established theorems. As far theorems were reserved exclusively for mathematics. That means that we can use theorems only if we accept that the reality is isomorphic to mathematical structures. (Not necessarily vice versa). I think you agree to that point.

My proposal is to use the geometrization conjecture, proved by Perelman (so it is a theorem). We have the set of 8 Thurston geometries. We can treat them as a space-like, totally geodesic submanifolds of a 3+1 dimensional spacetime… and get all interactions and matter.

If you are interested you can find details in my essay

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2452

I would appreciate your fresh view and comments. Thank you.

Jacek

report post as inappropriate

Dear Carsten,

I think Newton was wrong about abstract gravity; Einstein was wrong about abstract space/time, and Hawking was wrong about the explosive capability of NOTHING.

All I ask is that you give my essay WHY THE REAL UNIVERSE IS NOT MATHEMATICAL a fair reading and that you allow me to answer any objections you may leave in my comment box about it.

Joe Fisher

report post as inappropriate

I think Newton was wrong about abstract gravity; Einstein was wrong about abstract space/time, and Hawking was wrong about the explosive capability of NOTHING.

All I ask is that you give my essay WHY THE REAL UNIVERSE IS NOT MATHEMATICAL a fair reading and that you allow me to answer any objections you may leave in my comment box about it.

Joe Fisher

report post as inappropriate

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