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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

Sujatha Jagannathan: on 4/21/15 at 16:03pm UTC, wrote In this case I want to inform you the bitter fact that the modern day maths...

En Passant: on 4/21/15 at 13:06pm UTC, wrote Sujatha Jagannathan wrote on Apr. 19, 2015 @ 13:56 GMT stub Hands-on...

Sujatha Jagannathan: on 4/15/15 at 14:56pm UTC, wrote Thanks a lot for your positive feedback. :) -Sincerely, Miss. Sujatha...

LLOYD OKOKO: on 4/15/15 at 11:50am UTC, wrote Dear Sujatha, Thanks for your great essay which thrives on what I would...

Sujatha Jagannathan: on 4/7/15 at 7:23am UTC, wrote You say my essay doesn't convey the "Universal Truth" the foundation...

Sujatha Jagannathan: on 4/7/15 at 7:11am UTC, wrote UNIVERSAL TRUTH how do you explain that in your essay? The...

Sujatha Jagannathan: on 4/7/15 at 7:07am UTC, wrote (b) UNIVERSAL TRUTH (/b) how do you explain that in your essay? The...

Gordon Watson: on 4/7/15 at 6:45am UTC, wrote Dear Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan, these comment boxes are surely large enough...


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FQXi FORUM
October 21, 2019

CATEGORY: Trick or Truth Essay Contest (2015) [back]
TOPIC: Trick or Truth: the Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics by Sujatha Jagannathan [refresh]
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Author Sujatha Jagannathan wrote on Feb. 13, 2015 @ 17:14 GMT
Essay Abstract

The essay attempts to probe the relationship between physics and mathematics in cosmological terms. It explains the big picture with the infinite captions of the subtleties, ambiguities, hidden assumptions, or even contradictions and paradoxes at the intersection of formal mathematics and the physics of the real world pertaining to complex adverbial thoughts of 'MAN'. Exclaiming, "Nature is Science!"

Author Bio

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan, a budding student from Indira Gandhi National Open University, Delhi, India doing Bachelor's in English has made a rough draft attempt about the subject.

Download Essay PDF File

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John C Hodge wrote on Feb. 13, 2015 @ 21:48 GMT
Very good!

Now the principles must be reduced to predictions. Narkilar, Burbidge and others have tried to produce a better model than the Christian ``In the beginning, ...” but are less predictive. But now that more inconsistent data is resulting is ad hoc addition to the ``beginning’’ (big bang) model, the time may be ripe for a reassessment of the Upanishads.

The idea that life is continually replenished through birth and death is in my Scalar Theory of Everything model (2015 contest paper). Is continual replenishment (source) and removal (sink) in our universe consistent with the Upanishads’s teaching?

Great paper!

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Feb. 17, 2015 @ 08:12 GMT
Thank you for your precious time and comment, Sir!

With regards,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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basudeba mishra wrote on Feb. 14, 2015 @ 03:00 GMT
Ma Janani,

Many people read Vedas, but no one understands it. Not a single commentary of the Vedas exists; which gives true interpretation according to Vedaangas taught in the traditional method. Similarly, all commentaries on Vedaanta are faulty. We had written a brief commentary pointing out the mistakes and giving scientific interpretation, with a different classification of forces (you...

view entire post


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John C Hodge replied on Feb. 14, 2015 @ 14:53 GMT
I’m sure you and Sujatha are more expert than I. I note the Christian ``In the beginning, ...” became the Big Bang model. I suggest Upanishads should be interpreted / restated in modern jargon rather than merely translated.

You list one example: ``It is easy to say “As is the human body, so is the cosmic body”, but to equate the macro with the macro is the biggest challenge before scientists.’’ Ths follows with the idea that if you understood all that happens as you sit under a tree, you would understand the universe. My interpretation is in 2015 contest paper. That is, that all scales of size in the universe including the universe as a whole (cosmic body) is self-similar (fractal) of our scale (human body).

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basudeba mishra replied on Feb. 16, 2015 @ 02:41 GMT
Dear Sir,

Everyone is an expert in some field or the other and no one is expert in all fields. But often people mis-utilize their own or others expertise.

You are right about "In the beginning....". But then it is only a statement of facts. There must be some mechanism to translate that fact into reality. That mechanism was known to the Lord, but not to us. That is science.

Vedas and Upanishads are not books of any religion, but are books of knowledge that discuss these science. But unfortunately, no one understands its intrinsic meaning and read literal translations only. Mostly, these translations are misleading.

For example, there is a Vedic dictum that macrocosm and microcosm replicate each other (yat pinde tat Brahmaande). But findings the correlations are extremely difficult. Yet, the Vedas say: "arvaagvasu vai Devaanaam Brahmaa", which means planet Jupiter and protons have similar internal structures. Unless knows that the term arvaagvasu means Jupiter based on its mechanism of creation (similarly the other terms), no one can make head or tail of it.

We are reading your essay and will comment soon. You are also welcome to read our essay.

Regards,

basudeba

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan wrote on Feb. 16, 2015 @ 05:01 GMT
Thank you very much everyone for your precious time and comments!

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Gary D. Simpson wrote on Feb. 16, 2015 @ 10:21 GMT
Sujatha,

I was aware that Schrodinger had been influenced by Indian thought but not the others you mention. Tesla was also familiar with Vedic texts.

I have a couple of questions for you ...

Who has observed the entire calendar? If there is nothing between cycles then who is doing the counting?

Are there any testable predictions? Philosophy is nice but physical truth is tested and measured.

Best Regards and Good Luck,

Gary Simpson

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Feb. 17, 2015 @ 08:00 GMT
Dear Sir,

Good Afternoon!

The Sunrise, the sunset everything is calculative!

I don't know if you're aware of the term "Panchang", its a Hindu calendar with important dates and happenings. Even eclipses are predicted using this.

From ancient scriptures too you can find these findings.

With these calculative astrological concepts they draw a birthchart of the person and provide thereby their predictions which is accurately acceptable.

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Hasmukh K. Tank wrote on Feb. 16, 2015 @ 11:51 GMT
Sujatha,

I appreciate your interest in science and the Upanishads.

So I think, you will be delighted to read the following:

1. Nature of the Ultimate Reality, The Physical World and The Individual Self according to the Upanishad,: URL:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmY
XVsdGRvbWFpbnx0aGV1bHRpbWF0ZXJlYWxpdHlzaXRlfGd4OjY3MmM5YmNjO
DFiZDY3YzE

2. On the Emergence of the Physical World from The Ultimate Reality, URL:

fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2001

3. On The Emergence of ‘Life’ from “matter”, URL:

philpapers.org/rec/TANOTE

4. On the Nature of Consciousness, Space and The Cosmic Consciousness, URL:

scigod.com/index.php/sgj/article/viewFile/290/335

The following stanza describes the physical world, just in two lines:

Vishvam Bichi-Vilasa Ayam, Cit-Sudha-Abdhe Udeti Yaha;

Vileeyate Cha Tatra-eva, Madhye Katham Tad-Maya. ( From Yoga Vashishtha )

Meaning:

This universe is a play of waves, arisen in nectar-ocean of the Ultimate Reality, (which Chit, meaning Consciousness, Sudha meaning: immortal and Abdhi meaning Ocean of infinite dimensions). It (The Universe) also subsides in that ocean alone. So in its present state too, it is tad maya, immersed in the Ultimate Reality.

Some Western Scientists too, have reached the similar conclusion. For example:

Halliday and Rasnik's text-book Physics's title-page has a photograph of Double-slit-interference of waves. As if, they have expressed whole physics using this photograph.

With Best Wishes,

Hasmukh K. Tank

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John C Hodge replied on Feb. 16, 2015 @ 13:37 GMT
As noted before: If you understand the double-slit experiment, you do understand the whole of physics. That is the subject of my current study.

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Akinbo Ojo wrote on Feb. 16, 2015 @ 14:38 GMT
Dear Sujatha,

Can you find out what Vedanta has to say about whether a length is infinitely divisible into positions or whether there is a limit to the available positions on a given length?

Regards,

Akinbo

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Feb. 21, 2015 @ 05:22 GMT
Dear Sir,

To narrate further about Vedanta and other ancient scriptures, it's an equalised and envisioned thought that for every length there's an end-point.

Sincerely,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Eckard Blumschein replied on Feb. 26, 2015 @ 21:16 GMT
Dear Miss.,

My command of English is perhaps not good enough as to always understand you. That's why I looked into your essay after you made a comment on mine that I felt rather cryptic.

Did you read the essay by Akinbo Ojo? While his mother tongue is also not English - he is a physician in Nigeria - we do understand each other well enough as to agree on that we disagree, I am sure, you didn't understand his question.

Eckard Blumschein

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Feb. 27, 2015 @ 06:34 GMT
Dear Sir,

According to my understanding your good friend had asked me regarding the length in question that whether if it is divisible in various positions or has some limit to it; to that I simplified this by saying every length has to the divisions or scattering has a particular end point to it.

Hope you got my point!

Sincerely,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Domenico Oricchio wrote on Feb. 16, 2015 @ 14:49 GMT
Thank you for reading my essay.

I read with interest your essay; and I think that the curiosity (and studies) in the philosophy, and mysticism, is not waste of time.

If there are millennia of studies, exchange of idea, on the fundamental ideas of the world (and of the life), some results must have been obtained.

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Feb. 17, 2015 @ 08:16 GMT
Thank you for your precious time and comment.

With regards,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Vladimir Rogozhin wrote on Feb. 17, 2015 @ 10:57 GMT
Dear Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan,

I read with great interest your essay. Yes, indeed, to find a common foundation of Mathematics and Physics is necessary synthesis of all the accumulated knowledge, including traditional. India center rich culture and ancient knowledge that nourish many peoples of the world. I recall here the poems of Rabindranath Tagore:

I ask my destiny - what power is this That cruelly drives me onward without rest?

My destiny says, "Look round!"

I turn back and see It is I myself that is ever pushing me from behind.


There is no doubt that the picture of the world of physicists and mathematicians should be the same rich senses of life as a picture of the world poets ..

Kind regards,

Vladimir

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Feb. 17, 2015 @ 17:48 GMT
Thanks for your valuable views!

Thanks a lot!!

Smiles.

Sincerely,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Lawrence B Crowell wrote on Feb. 17, 2015 @ 17:09 GMT
I am not that educated in some of these scriptural texts. I have a sense that the Atman = Brahma means that the distinction between the individual and the wholeness is not that sharp. There is a sort of observer-participator aspect to quantum physics that has this qualitative meaning.

LC

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Feb. 17, 2015 @ 17:50 GMT
Thank you for your kind views.

Sincerely,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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John McVirgo wrote on Feb. 25, 2015 @ 02:59 GMT
The topic was supposed to be on the connection between mathematics and physics. Instead, you appear to have uses the competition as an excuse for you to advertise how Indian philosophy has influenced the thinking of some Western physicists.

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Feb. 25, 2015 @ 07:00 GMT
Dear Sir,

I have related physics and mathematics as a basis in cosmological terms about the evolution bound truth. I hope you hold the synthesis.

With regards,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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James Lee Hoover wrote on Feb. 26, 2015 @ 18:37 GMT
Sujatha,

Thanks for introducing me to Vedanta beliefs. Concepts born several thousands years ago, such as these, seem to have inspired ideas in our modern world. The cyclic model proposes that the big bang is a collision between branes that occurs at regular intervals. From my memory, its every trillion years or so. It perhaps inspires the fractal, a mathematical set that exhibits a repeating pattern that displays at every scale.

It is an informative essay and well written.

Jim

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Feb. 27, 2015 @ 06:26 GMT
Thank you very much for your kind views and precious time!

Smiles :)

Sincerely,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Branko L Zivlak wrote on Mar. 1, 2015 @ 19:57 GMT
Dear Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan,

The present period is the Kali Yuga and Brahma is not sleeping. Is it same, on the far place. Maybe Bhrama is sleeping at that place. You realize that it is important question about egzistance of singularity, Theory of Big Bang and Cyclisity.

Best Regards,

Branko Zivlak

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Mar. 2, 2015 @ 07:02 GMT
Dear Branko Zivlak,

I cannot argue or derive a formula for existence of God here, I do not want to comment upon the existence of God to an atheist.

With regards,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Vladimir F. Tamari wrote on Mar. 29, 2015 @ 06:45 GMT
Dear Miss Sujata

There has been much discussion on the subject of the relation of science and religion which mostly dealt with Christianity. I myself concluded that it is best to keep the two separate for best results ! Having said that I must admit enjoying the part of your essay telling about Schrodinger and the others reading the Vedas. You might have added that Oppenheimer the father of the atom bomb quoted the Bhagavad Vita after testing the Bomb :

"""‘We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita; Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty, and to impress him, takes on his multi-armed form and says, ‘Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.’ I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.’""".

madame Curie believed you should respect people's faith even though you donot share it. For example in my physics theory I believe the concept of time is not fundamental while you explain in your essay that in Hinduism it is. I wish you all success

with best wishes

Vladimir

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Mar. 31, 2015 @ 05:55 GMT
You had given valuable comments before too.

And this time too.

Thanks for your valuable time and comments. I wish your work a great success. Thanks again.

Smiles

Best regards,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Gary D. Simpson wrote on Apr. 1, 2015 @ 22:13 GMT
Sujatha,

I apologize in advance for my question. I assure you that I mean no insult or disrespect. My question is as follows: "R__U__a__T_u_R_i_N_g__T_e_$_t"?

Best Regards and Good Luck,

Gary Simpson

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Apr. 2, 2015 @ 06:51 GMT
Your apologies are accepted, henceforth I hope you won't question me silly.

- Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan wrote on Apr. 2, 2015 @ 06:50 GMT
Your apologies are accepted, henceforth I hope you won't question silly.

- Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Gordon Watson wrote on Apr. 5, 2015 @ 21:26 GMT
Dear Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan, in response to your comments on my Essay Forum:

If you would be so kind as to provide "the exact definitive questions of Universal Truth" there, I will be pleased to respond re any deviations.

For example, noting that such questions are not provided in your essay: We might then productively discuss my "deviating from your paper" in the context of "those exact definitive questions".

With best regards; Gordon Watson: Essay Forum. Essay Only.

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Apr. 6, 2015 @ 06:38 GMT
You say my essay doesn't convey the "Universal Truth" the foundation questions of the cosmological evolution; it clearly states that you "did not get the purport of my essay."

I have made various mentions in footnotes : U can explore more about the subject since everything is not possible to explain in this comment box.

Your doubts or questions will be simplified there.

- Sincerely,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Gordon Watson replied on Apr. 7, 2015 @ 06:45 GMT
Dear Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan, these comment boxes are surely large enough for you to provide at least one of your "exact definitive questions of Universal Truth" that you say my essay does not address.

Further, if you need additional space, simply open another comment box!

NB: In truth, any reference that I made to your essay related to your use of the phrase "the exact definitive questions of Universal Truth" when you commented on my essay.

PS: Since the four experiments that I analyse yield truths, such will not conflict with any valid Truth that you care to offer.

With best regards; Gordon Watson: Essay Forum. Essay Only.

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Apr. 7, 2015 @ 07:11 GMT
UNIVERSAL TRUTH

how do you explain that in your essay?

The supposedly phrased man "exact definitive questions of Universal truth"

You're quite offensive in the forum discussion, no doubt about that!

- Sincerely,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan wrote on Apr. 7, 2015 @ 07:07 GMT
(b) UNIVERSAL TRUTH (/b)

how do you explain that in your essay?

The supposedly phrased man (b) "exact definitive questions of Universal truth" (/b)

You're quite offensive in the forum discussion, no doubt about that!

- Sincerely,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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LLOYD TAMARAPREYE OKOKO wrote on Apr. 15, 2015 @ 11:50 GMT
Dear Sujatha,

Thanks for your great essay which thrives on what I would call the SOURCE OF ALL

SOURCES- "the VEDAS".Your resort to cosmology as a means of probing the maths-physics nexus as examplified in the "Rig Vedas" view of the cosmos is an approximation of Niel Bohr's proof of assessment on the subject matter.

There is nothing wrong in looking up to the "Upanisads" for an answer;it is all encompassing.

Keep the the flying.

Lloyd Tamarapreye Okoko.

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Apr. 15, 2015 @ 14:56 GMT
Thanks a lot for your positive feedback.

:)

-Sincerely,

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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En Passant wrote on Apr. 21, 2015 @ 13:06 GMT
Sujatha Jagannathan wrote on Apr. 19, 2015 @ 13:56 GMT stub

Hands-on conceptualized framed layers!

- Regards

Miss. Sujatha Jagannathan

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Author En Passant replied on Apr. 21, 2015 @ 07:53 GMT stub

Dear Sujatha,

Your last name (in Sanskrit) means something like “the man who has unstoppable force.”

It is simply impossible to take Vedic (Sanskrit) wisdom, and think it is applicable to modern day physics.

I know you would like to make that case, and those people were very wise. But you need experimentation to do science. That did not develop until not that long ago in Europe. Yes, I am aware of Ramanujan and Sun Tzu, and they were brilliant in their way.

Your paternal line is likely to be R1a (possibly Brahmin).

En

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Author Sujatha Jagannathan replied on Apr. 21, 2015 @ 16:03 GMT
In this case I want to inform you the bitter fact that the modern day maths emerged from Vedic Maths.

And the other theories derived from "Good-old-Sanskrit", 'Sanskrit' being the mother of all her kin languages.

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