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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

Margarita Iudin: on 6/6/14 at 17:31pm UTC, wrote Hello I am sorry I stopped to rate the essay a long ago if you want to...

Margarita Iudin: on 6/6/14 at 17:09pm UTC, wrote Hello Michael Sorry I do not have enough time I will write your later -...

Margarita Iudin: on 6/6/14 at 16:56pm UTC, wrote Thank you for your comments Mr. Klingman, I will write you in more details...

Edwin Klingman: on 6/5/14 at 21:23pm UTC, wrote Dear Margarita Iudin, I acknowledge the consciousness of individual...

Michael Allan: on 6/5/14 at 17:32pm UTC, wrote Hello Margarita, I share my thoughts after reading your essay, and offer a...

Peter Gluck: on 6/5/14 at 5:04am UTC, wrote Dear Margarita I believe this book: ...

Vladimir Tamari: on 6/5/14 at 0:38am UTC, wrote Hello Margarita I enjoyed reading your very-well-written essay. You are...

Peter Jackson: on 6/4/14 at 14:27pm UTC, wrote Margarita, Many thanks for your post on my essay. I reproduce my response...


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FQXi FORUM
July 18, 2019

CATEGORY: How Should Humanity Steer the Future? Essay Contest (2014) [back]
TOPIC: Imagining the future humanity by Margarita Iudin [refresh]
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Author Margarita Iudin wrote on Apr. 23, 2014 @ 15:38 GMT
Essay Abstract

Although human self-awareness, constrained and fallible, lacks knowledge about position of human life in the hierarchy of cellular life, there is an accurate understanding that this position has been changing with time. The Holocene climate conditions made possible the booming growth of human population and technoscience advances, especially in chemical, biochemical and information technologies. We suggest that ongoing extension of the limits of specific human consciousness has been predisposed by unknown needs and interests of total cellular life and the living Earth. It seems that human consciousness is impending great changes. In our view, all the applied science and technological innovations is not more than an imitation and reflection on the already existed phenomena of nonhuman life forms. We believe that technoscience achievements have become possible due to analogous imagining in cellular life observers. Human analogous thinking is a kind of analogous imagining. To create mental analogs, human observers employ topological mapping, or Gestalt imagining. For example, human observers employ topological mapping over the physical network of brain cells and signals.

Author Bio

M. Sc in physics and engineering polymath, background in physics, mathematical modeling and hardware/software engineering Special interests: Earth sciences, cognitive science, futurism

Download Essay PDF File

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Georgina Woodward wrote on Apr. 24, 2014 @ 01:14 GMT
Hi Margarita,

it was interesting to read your explanations of vision, imagination, thought, and the consciousness of nonhuman life. I find it strange the thought that, Quote: "our human consciousness is limited by the unknown needs of the total cellular life and the living Earth". What does that mean? Is it that without taking care of the needs of the living Earth human consciousness will...

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Author Margarita Iudin replied on Apr. 24, 2014 @ 02:55 GMT
Hello:

1."..human consciousness is limited by the unknown needs of the total cellular life and the living Earth"

The needs of the total cellular life and the living Earth are unknown. We put our human needs in a front row and project them to the other cellular life forms. Do we really know what human needs are? happiness, intellectual and practical success, good health, fine food, a...

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Anonymous replied on Apr. 24, 2014 @ 09:05 GMT
Margatita,

1.Thank you for 'translating'. There is a hierarchy of needs. Many of the things you mention would be high up on the hierarchy while basic needs for survival would be at the base. It is only when the lower down needs are fulfilled that higher ones become relevant to the organism. You ask "Why does corporeal life exist"? The answer depends upon whether one is taking a scientific...

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Georgina Woodward replied on Apr. 24, 2014 @ 09:06 GMT
That Anonymous was me

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John Brodix Merryman wrote on Apr. 24, 2014 @ 01:55 GMT
Margarita,

That is a very thought provoking essay. I also think life on this planet is evolving toward a singular organism, with humanity as its central nervous system and that much of what we are doing intellectually and technologically, biology has been doing for hundreds of millions of years on this planet alone.

In my own entry I argue that in the current situation, the...

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Author Margarita Iudin replied on Apr. 24, 2014 @ 03:08 GMT
Hello

I like your self-advertising post.

I am sorry I do not have time to discuss with you historical Sumer, Akkad and other ancient and contemporary nations and their economic habits. As we have a jeopardy with world-traded currencies I do not like you mentioning Rothschild's gold certificates. It does not work anymore. Plastic money does not work either. Western civilization ( originated in Sumer-Akkad, Greece-Roman Empire, Middle-Age Europe)is dying because there is to much people who stop to work.

My essay is not about money business or impact on the world economy on future of humanity. It is more general. I think about money business in the abstract ( say, purely logical, mathematical) way.

Thank you for your interest.

Margarita

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John Brodix Merryman replied on Apr. 24, 2014 @ 03:39 GMT
Margarita,

I'm sorry if I left you with a limited impression, as that was only one feature of my entry. I agree civilizations like to put everyone to work and pointed in one direction, which they control. In an entry in a previous FQXI contest, I make the point that our problem with understanding time is that we experience it as a sequence of events and so think of it as the present...

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Author Margarita Iudin replied on Apr. 26, 2014 @ 02:05 GMT
Hello John

Please excuse me from this conversation.

I do not want to say what I think about your post.

Regards,

M

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James A Putnam wrote on Apr. 29, 2014 @ 02:23 GMT
Dear Margarita,

I have read your essay with great appreciation. I have read several others, though not all. I feel certain though at this moment that your essay is the best essay. It is free of ideology. It is free of the mechanical restraints imposed by theoretical physics. It is free of political and economic narrow-mindedness. It reaches into the depths of scientific learning and produces needed direction for humanity. Thank you for submitting your essay and sharing your ideas. I am immediately rating your essay an easy, deserving TEN.

James Putnam

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Joe Fisher wrote on Apr. 29, 2014 @ 13:34 GMT
Dear Ms. Judin,

I read your essay four times and I have to ask your forgiveness for I did not understand any of it.

For instance, you wrote: “Nonlocal consciousness is phenomena common to all.” I am sure that my grasp of reality only exists here and now, once. I do not believe that I have the option of selecting any specific part of local consciousness or nonlocal consciousness. I cannot confirm that there can be a greater or lesser amount of local consciousness than there is of nonlocal consciousness. Here is immeasurable. Now is immeasurable. That is what makes here and now and me and my consciousness real. Being by nature a charitable sort of bloke, I truly feel that everyone else on the planet thinks as I do, although they may keep it to themselves.

Hesitatingly,

Joe Fisher

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Author Margarita Iudin replied on May. 6, 2014 @ 21:25 GMT
Hello Joe,

You did not need to read it more than once. If you did not understand at the first time, it means it was not for you. You should not bother.

I only want to tell you that there is no such thing as all people thinking the same

I do not understand what you mean under a charitable sort of bloke. If you are a social person - good for you. By the way, to be social does have nothing with being correct about certain things. I agree that it is more comfortable to stay with majority, but thus, you cannot become a true thinker. True thinkers are pulling the majority through.

Regards,

M Iudin

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Peter Jackson wrote on May. 2, 2014 @ 17:20 GMT
Margarita,

An intriguing essay. I almost now feel I like a visitor here! But are we not all temporary 'guests' in our present form? I've written a paper which implies we're anyway all 'recycled' with our galaxies at regular intervals, re-ionized to grow new molecules and new cellular life.

I then entirely agree nonlocal consciousness, but in a causal universe, not as the 'quantum nonlocality' which our incomplete understanding has left us believing in (the subject of my own effort).

Thank you for an entirely original and refreshing perspective.

Best wishes

Peter

PS. The rating buttons seem to be broken. I shall return!

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Wesley Wayne Hansen wrote on May. 5, 2014 @ 14:28 GMT
I'm like Mr. Putman, Margarita, I thoroughly enjoyed your essay; you high-light a really good point with your analogous imagining. Many have argued that the evolution of technology is a random walk across design space but I think you demonstrate that the walk is highly constrained by analogy. Radical Constructivists argue that mathematics, which, it could be argued, is the foundation of science...

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Author Margarita Iudin replied on May. 6, 2014 @ 21:08 GMT
Hello Wes,

Thank you for your commentary.

You can be sure that I am right about

... about the restoration of balance with other cellular life forms ... It is the matter of the health and well being; when I talk health I mean health of an individual and health of population.

..

you mention an opinion about mathematics as a foundation for science and engineering ...

David Hilbert in his time posed a set of questions about whether mathematics is a kind of language and whether mathematical approach and abstracts come from direct observations alone and what mathematical abstracts really represent

If the answer is positive, the next question would be in what way math expression of physical and nonphysical experiences is better than other expressions the probable answer would be that math expression requires very little expense of physical energy

However, I still doubt about that the expenses being small

consider a path

from math theory (knowledge of qualities) to numerical computations (quantitative knowledge) and

from numerical computations to physicochemical processing

and, then, start all over again



Cheers,

M Iudin

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Arthur R. Woods wrote on May. 14, 2014 @ 20:43 GMT
Dear Margarita

I found that your excellent essay in many ways incorporates much of James Lovelock's "Gaia" theory. Perhaps more directly, it reminded me of Fritjof Capra's 1996 book "The Web of Life: A New Scientific Understanding of Living Systems" who wrote in the final chapter - Knowing That We Know:

"Identifying cognition with the full process of life -...

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Author Margarita Iudin replied on May. 15, 2014 @ 21:06 GMT
Dear Arthur

This essay is a digest of several articles of the Post-Gaia Doctrine. The Doctrine is indeed has to do something with the Earth's matters, but not only. Lynn Margulis is dead, and James Lovelock is about 95 years old. I am not sure that they would agree with me. They were attacked many times and over time their views had changed, had became more moderate.

If you are...

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Vladimir Rogozhin wrote on May. 25, 2014 @ 14:49 GMT
Dear Margarita,

I read with great interest your depth analytical essay with interesting original conclusions that I really patches of light:

«Radical anthropocentrism made human consciousness too vulnerable and caused severe disconnection from other life forms. The most desirable for humanity is to change its views at cooperation of the life forms and the living Earth and to...

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Author Margarita Iudin replied on May. 31, 2014 @ 17:52 GMT
Hello Vladimir,

I read your essay. I think it is a well cooked compote (this word has the same meaning in Russian and English). Actually, I can feel your caring personality and enthusiasm, but I think it was not a good idea to squash all your thoughts in the 9-pages essay.

I did not rank your essay because I feel very far from globalization, UN initiatives ( frankly, what is UN?) and other conjecture - market topics.

Sincerely,

MI

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Peter Jackson wrote on May. 30, 2014 @ 18:35 GMT
Margarita,

I'm back with restored rating powers as promised above. I'm disappointed you haven't responded or read/rated mine but I know how much time it takes, even speed-reading. If you get the chance during the extension I think you'll enjoy the allegorical tale.

Well done for yours.

Peter

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Author Margarita Iudin replied on May. 31, 2014 @ 17:33 GMT
Hello Peter,

Please be patient, I promise to read your essay.

Good luck,

MI

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Peter Jackson replied on Jun. 4, 2014 @ 14:27 GMT
Margarita,

Many thanks for your post on my essay. I reproduce my response here for your convenience. Reminded by James I did indeed rate yours. I never declare exactly what but it always reflects my comments, clearly favourable. I also haven't rated some. I hope we can discuss my (full!) response, ..as follows;

~

"Thanks for your interesting post. I agree rating is...

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Christian Corda wrote on Jun. 3, 2014 @ 11:23 GMT
Dear Margarita,

As I promised in my FQXi page, I have read your nice Essay. Here are my comments:

1) I think that not only human life's position changes with time in the hierarchy of cellular life, but also other kinds of life.

2) Acknowledge the consciousness of individual cellular life forms, the quorum consciousness and the great engineering skill of total cellular life looks consistent with anthropic principle.

3) I agree with your statement that "for present humanity it would be better to match human interests with the interests of total cellular life and to anticipate climate change in the interests of total cellular life".

4) I think that placing straightforward imitation before an understanding is a mistake.

5) In my opinion, the greatest example of imitation and understanding of cellular life is nano-technology.

6) Nonlocal consciousness is also consistent with anthropic principle.

7) Concerning analogous imagining, you were correct in claiming that I used it in my Essay. I also agree with you that it is very important to "steer the future" of humanity.

As your Essay enjoyed me a lot, I am going to give you an high rate accordingly.

I hope you will find the time to read, comment and rate my Essay.

Best luck in the Contest.

Cheers,

Ch.

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Author Margarita Iudin replied on Jun. 6, 2014 @ 17:31 GMT
Hello

I am sorry I stopped to rate the essay a long ago

if you want to speak about molecular dimension please use the word chemistry instead of the monstrous word nano-technology

yes, Nonlocal consciousness is consistent with anthropic principle and with many other principles, views, etc. depends on your interpretation

about gravitational waves very interesting subject

black holes - not science , at this point in history it is a pseudo-scientific theory of course, it may be different in the future

you always can publish about black holes and go for international conferences, and so on

I did not check your work thoroughly, I did not have time

your reference to the neighborhood particles what interactions forces how you define conditions

I guess

you should put your paper for to peer-to-peer review, post to arXiv. org

I did not understand the fundamental value of your essay if there is any

Bohr and other guys they dreamed about the liquid drop model

their brainstorming - it was not what is now thought of the model

they thought about to a model of creation of material world not model of a massive particle

Thank you for reading my essay,

Good luck

M Iudin

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James A Putnam wrote on Jun. 3, 2014 @ 16:13 GMT
Margarita,

I left a message for you in my forum.

James Putnam

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James A Putnam wrote on Jun. 4, 2014 @ 02:37 GMT
Margarita,

With regard to my mention of temperature at my forum, It was with regard to thermodynamic entropy. I wrote a page titled the Unknown Thermodynamic Entropy. I wrote that thermodynamic entropy, discovered by and defined by Clausius is unknown to this day. The reason it remains unknown is because its definition includes temperature. Temperature is an indefinable property along with length and time and mass. Temperature, as well as was mass, was improperly declared to be an indefinable property. In my work I define both mass and temperature and explain what thermodynamic entropy is. As you can see, my work is very different from accepted theoretical physics. This is just to let you know what I alone think. My essay for last years contest explains all this and more.

James Putnam

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Peter Gluck wrote on Jun. 4, 2014 @ 08:58 GMT
Dear Margarita,

I have remarked and read your essay when it was published (chrologically it was no 114/153)It is remarkably original and creative. It has no references and this is a proof of moral courage- we are faced with the ideas of the author herself and not with some authority in her field (no "post-logical thinking, bravissimo!

I am no expert in biology, so I cannot judge or appreciate the senses and consequences of the starting concept of the essay- "hierarchy of cellular life"

and its relationship with what we call Evolution. I also have problems with the global cellular life and our position in it.I had the impression that human brain cells are a superior form of cellular life due to the marvel of thinking- per se.

I think this essay open a way toward a better future. More instructions how to go will be welcome

Peter Gluck

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Thomas Howard Ray wrote on Jun. 4, 2014 @ 12:58 GMT
Margarita,

Your essay sprawls, yet it sprawls over some very rich territory, where its very form reflects the content in a stream-of-consciousness narrative as close to art as to science. Like cut crystal, it is multifacted and beautiful.

What I take away, is that the integration of nonlocal consciousness with local experience is dynamic and free ranging over all scales of metaphysically real interactions -- and I hope I'm right.

Reading your piece leaves me with some regret that at this late date, I will have missed other such jewels among the dross. I can only do what I can, rating wise, to try and elevate attention.

You might resonate with the portion of my essay that expands on: "... there is no principle difference between the logical design and methods of the capital recycling(formidably described by great logician K. Marx) from one side and logical design and methods of energy-information recycling from the other side."

All best,

Tom

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Vladimir F. Tamari wrote on Jun. 5, 2014 @ 00:38 GMT
Hello Margarita

I enjoyed reading your very-well-written essay. You are absolutely right in stressing the significance of how cellular life has adapted itself and created methods of communation and data transfer - one can call it that - in living systems. In fact in my physics theory Beautiful Universe I have noted that " The human brain evolved over millions of years in organisms that interacted directly, causally and locally with inanimate nature on a molecular scale[15]. Is it too much to ask now that our understanding of Mother Nature should also be as simple, direct and realistic as possible?"

From there to the human scale it is a large leap, and I am a bit doubtful that absolutely everything human beings have created or will create has an analogy in cellular life. This idea denies the creative inventive process. A cell invents ways to survive and procreate. Do cells fall in love, write poetry, harbor thoughts of future security or revenge, or dream or are self-aware? Analogy needs to be stretched to the breaking point to explain the present (and future) human situation.

It struck me that two aspects of your essay hover near religious ideas: the Jain religion in India sanctifies life, even to the smallest insect (and I suppose cell). And your idea of enlightenment is close to Zen 'satori'.

My essay is very different from yours, but hope you will read it.

Best wishes from Vladimir

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Peter Gluck wrote on Jun. 5, 2014 @ 05:04 GMT
Dear Margarita

I believe this book:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22229710.800-all-
systems-tao-holistic-view-of-lifes-networks.html?full=true#.
U4_yHXKSz1B



The Systems View of Life: A unifying vision by Fritjof Capra and Pier Luigi Luisi

Published by: Cambridge University Press

speaks in the favor of your ideas, essay

Peter

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Michael Allan wrote on Jun. 5, 2014 @ 17:32 GMT
Hello Margarita, I share my thoughts after reading your essay, and offer a suggestion.

You present a new way of looking at things. At first it seemed a new paradigm of evolution. You assert (p. 2) that "we do not really know how life forms [were] transformed in the past" (arguably true), and that "we have all right to think that [these] transformations... have something to do with fine sensation and control management" (yes, we do). Here I thought of the current paradigm, which is neo-Darwinism. I wanted to compare neo-Darwinism with your own paradigm and learn what the differences might be, and so better understand yours. But I soon realized that your essay is scoped much larger than evolution, maybe even larger than biology. So I lost my frame of reference. It's as though you were speaking a new language for which there's no Rosetta Stone (no key, no dictionary). I didn't understand.

I suggest it would help to take a comparative approach. For example you would write, "Here's how people look at S today...", where S is something simple. "Here's how I suggest we look at S instead... Here's the difference between these two views (old and new)... Here's what I think their respective advantages are... And their disadvantages..." Then you would do the same for T, U, etc. which are different things. Only once the reader understands your new viewpoint and learns to adopt it himself/herself would you dispense with the comparative approach and just speak of X, Y, Z, etc. from that viewpoint alone.

Mike

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Author Margarita Iudin replied on Jun. 6, 2014 @ 17:09 GMT
Hello Michael

Sorry I do not have enough time

I will write your later - if it would be possible to submit posts after the rating is over

you have your website, correct?

I was really impressed by your essay

It is not a new way of looking at things - it is an extended Platonic view, the Post-Gaia Margulis, Lovelock and others, Gaea Leibnitz and others

Darwin is absolutely different story

I do not use a word evolution because it has been linked to Darwinism - yak

I do not like Darwinism, I appreciate Darwin's work I do not like later interpretations and all these people ( including Darwin's relatives) who try to punish others for thinking differently

I did not write from my own name, I use WE

I can send your reference sources if you are interested

I reside in Toronto

what do you think about coming elections - rhetoric question

/ you wrote your voting algorithm/ protocol / I have an interesting problem for you - how about to summarize the FQXI rating policy and results

I have some ideas

Thank you again

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Edwin Eugene Klingman wrote on Jun. 5, 2014 @ 21:23 GMT
Dear Margarita Iudin,

I acknowledge the consciousness of individual cellular life forms [see my 2009 essay] and I agree with you about the futility of trying to control climate.

You say: "Imitation and understanding of a logical design and its physical implementation are possible because of analogous imagining... which transfers meaning from one context to another." That is nicely stated.

I do have a theory of "imagining" but it does not fit into a comment. And I do agree that it is possible to "steer the future" of humanity by means of analogical imagining.

I do not understand exactly what you mean by "nonlocal consciousness" which you claim is a phenomenon common to all living things. I view consciousness as a field phenomena which would make it nonlocal, so if this is what you mean then we are in full agreement. Of course the field interacts with all matter and at the level of the cell the organization of matter supports many many layers of logic and thus allows rudimentary "thinking".

Your focus on cellular consciousness is very compatible with my ideas, and I thank you for writing an interesting and entertaining essay.

My best regards,

Edwin Eugene Klingman

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Author Margarita Iudin replied on Jun. 6, 2014 @ 16:56 GMT
Thank you for your comments Mr. Klingman,

I will write you in more details some time later

non-local consciousness - the term has multiple meanings

please consider

local consciousness as a result of local processing, local computations

non-local consciousness you have a final result of computations performed somewhere else by somebody else, you need to know how to receive translate

you may interpret it in a wrong way, however you do not need to use your resources, to go through all prpocessing

Best luck,

MI

the esoteric guys like goswami what's the bleep

link non-local consciousness to quantum effects and quantum computing

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