RECENT ARTICLES

Philosopher Jenann Ismael invokes the thermodynamic arrow of time to explain how human intelligence emerged through culture.

Grounded physicists are exploring the use of online and virtual-reality conferencing, and AI-controlled experiments, to maintain social distancing. Post-pandemic, these positive innovations could make science more accessible and environmentally-friendly.

Untangling how the human perception of cause-and-effect might arise from quantum physics, may help us understand the limits and the potential of AI.

Physicists are using optogenetics techniques to make a rudimentary agent, from cellular components, which can convert measurements into actions using light.

Investigating how quantum memory storage could aid machine learning and how quantum interactions with the environment may have played a role in evolution.

FQXI ARTICLE

November 23, 2020

Thermal Timekeeping

Constructing a clock that measures temperature could unite the conflicting conceptions of time in the quantum and cosmic realms.

FQXi Awardees: Gerard Milburn

February 28, 2012

TALKING TIME

Gerard Milburn and postdoctoral researcher Uzma Akram,

University of Queensland

So perhaps we shouldn’t be too perturbed when physicist Gerard Milburn says that he wants to redefine time once more, even if—mind-bogglingly—he wants to construct a clock that marks its ticks based on…temperature. As strange as it sounds, this new view of

Thanks to Einstein’s theories of relativity, physicists are already familiar with time’s ability to stretch and contract, in response to the strength of gravity nearby or to the speed of an object you are observing. But while Einstein’s theories work brilliantly on a large scale, there’s no easy way to include gravity and the relative nature of time at the atomic scale. In the quantum regime, the uncertainty principle prevents you from defining space and time too closely. "This tells you that time and space are kind of lumpy—they are not smooth and flowing but in some sense jittery and noisy," says Milburn, who is based at the University of Queensland, in Brisbane, Australia.

The $64,000 question—or in this case the $64,250 question to be addressed with a grant from FQXi—is: What is time in General Relativity? The usual thing is to identify some physical thing in the theory that acts as a proxy for time, Milburn explains. So, with his former grad student Nick Menicucci, now at the University of Sydney, in New South Wales, Australia, he has been searching for a property that can mark time equally well in both the cosmic and quantum regimes. "Thermal time" fits the bill, they argue, because it is based on the physics of thermodynamics, which uses statistics to describe how flows of heat and work done on a system change its temperature, volume, and pressure. "Thermodynamics is an incredibly fundamental theory, it applies across all physical theories," says Milburn, "including any future quantum theory of gravity."

You know exactly how

a system will tick once

you push it away from

thermal equilibrium.

a system will tick once

you push it away from

thermal equilibrium.

- Gerard Milburn on thermal time

But the key point is that when you have a gravitational system in thermodynamic equilibrium, you can look at the probability of finding it with a particular energy. Physicists describe the way a quantum system’s energy evolves with a mathematical term known as the

Forget Time

The idea of relating time to thermodynamics was actually first introduced by Carlo Rovelli and Matteo Smerlak, at the Centre for Theoretical Physics in Marseille, France. Rovelli outlined his "Thermal Time Hypothesis" in his award-winning FQXi essay, "Forget Time." As an experimental physicist, Milburn’s first thought on reading about this was "How can we measure that?" recalls Menicucci. "It’s an extremely useful approach in physics," Menicucci adds. "Some of the effects that Rovelli talked about actually disappear or become more interesting when you consider how to build a clock to measure them."

Other independent researchers, such as physicist Erik Verlinde, at the University of Amsterdam, have also found signs, in recent years, of an underlying link between thermodynamics, gravity, and Einstein’s theory of general relativity (see "The Myth of Gravity"). "That’s why I think thermal time is an idea worth pursuing," says Milburn.

A THERMAL TIMEPIECE?

The race to find a theory of quantum gravity could be hotting up,

thanks to thermal time.

Credit: Konstantin Yuganov

Although they haven’t yet worked out the details, they are encouraged by their progress so far, as are some other physicists. Tim Ralph, who leads a research centre on quantum computing at the University of Queensland, says it is an interesting approach to putting quantum mechanics and general relativity together.

But attempting to redefine time is an ambitious task and others, while impressed by the project’s audacity, urge caution. "The idea of replacing spacetime by something as yet unspecified in which something like thermodynamics exists, yet which can recover in some approximation physics in spacetime, remains intriguing but elusively vague to me," says Ted Jacobson, a gravitational theorist of the University of Maryland, College Park.

Smerlak, commenting on a draft paper, agrees the team must be careful not to "jump ahead of themselves" by claiming to have constructed a protocol for thermal clocks, but adds that they are following "a very interesting track."

Ever the experimentalist, Milburn understands that to win over skeptics, his ideas must eventually be testable, and it is something he is working on: "We might even be able to propose an experiment to probe the thermodynamic approach to quantum gravity by checking to see if gravity has a noisy effect on quantum states of light," he says. "But this is all conjecture at the moment."

Comment on this Article

Please read the important Introduction that governs your participation in this community. Inappropriate language will not be tolerated and posts containing such language will be deleted. Otherwise, this is a free speech Forum and all are welcome!

function ValidatePostText_main () {
form = document.addPostForm_main;
var recaptcha = $("#g-recaptcha-response").val();
if (recaptcha === "") {
event.preventDefault();
alert("The reCaptcha Box below must be checked before you submit the form");
}
else if (form.postText_main.value == '') {
alert ("The post contains no text");
return false;
}
else {
return true;
}
}

**Your name:**
(optional)

Recent Comments

read all article comments

Please read the important Introduction that governs your participation in this community. Inappropriate language will not be tolerated and posts containing such language will be deleted. Otherwise, this is a free speech Forum and all are welcome!

Please enter the text of your post, then click the "Submit New Post" button below. You may also optionally add file attachments below before submitting your edits.

HTML tags are not permitted in posts, and will automatically be stripped out. Links to other web sites are permitted. For instructions on how to add links, please read the link help page.

You may use superscript (10

^{100}) and subscript (A_{2}) using [sup]...[/sup] and [sub]...[/sub] tags.You may use bold (

**important**) and italics (*emphasize*) using [b]...[/b] and [i]...[/i] tags.You may also include LateX equations into your post.

Insert LaTeX Equation
[hide]

LaTeX equations may be displayed in FQXi Forum posts by including them within [equation]...[/equation] tags. You may type your equation directly into your post, or use the LaTeX Equation Preview feature below to see how your equation will render (this is recommended).

For more help on LaTeX, please see the LaTeX Project Home Page.

LaTeX Equation Preview

preview equation

clear equation

insert equation into post at cursor

LaTeX equations may be displayed in FQXi Forum posts by including them within [equation]...[/equation] tags. You may type your equation directly into your post, or use the LaTeX Equation Preview feature below to see how your equation will render (this is recommended).

For more help on LaTeX, please see the LaTeX Project Home Page.

LaTeX Equation Preview

preview equation

clear equation

insert equation into post at cursor

Attachments
[hide]

You may optionally attach up to two documents to your post. To add an attachment, use the following feature to browse your computer and select the file to attach. The maximum file size for attachments is 1MB.

Once you're done adding file attachments, click the "Submit New Post" button to add your post.

You may optionally attach up to two documents to your post. To add an attachment, use the following feature to browse your computer and select the file to attach. The maximum file size for attachments is 1MB.

Once you're done adding file attachments, click the "Submit New Post" button to add your post.

AUTHOR FRANK DIMEGLIO wrote on November 24, 2013

You are mistaken, as unification in physics (that is, gravity, inertia, and electromagnetism together in an equivalent and balanced fashion) necessarily involves HALF gravity and half inertia, as this is the MIDDLE distance in/of space. This gives us invisible and visible space in equilibrium and balance.

You are mistaken, as unification in physics (that is, gravity, inertia, and electromagnetism together in an equivalent and balanced fashion) necessarily involves HALF gravity and half inertia, as this is the MIDDLE distance in/of space. This gives us invisible and visible space in equilibrium and balance.

STEVE DUFOURNY wrote on May 10, 2012

Hi Amrit,

How are you? Fine I hope. I asked me but where were you ? happy to see you again on this platform.

About you post,

Indeed but with a complexification of mass by evolutive optimization. The numerical change on the entropical arrow of time is universal and deterministic. A little if we said that the spheres of mass polarises the spheres of light. That is why a main different sense of rotation is essential consideringt the linear light.If we take my equations with the...

Hi Amrit,

How are you? Fine I hope. I asked me but where were you ? happy to see you again on this platform.

About you post,

Indeed but with a complexification of mass by evolutive optimization. The numerical change on the entropical arrow of time is universal and deterministic. A little if we said that the spheres of mass polarises the spheres of light. That is why a main different sense of rotation is essential consideringt the linear light.If we take my equations with the...

AMRIT wrote on March 10, 2012

on the micro and macro level time is a numerical order of change.......

on the micro and macro level time is a numerical order of change.......

read all article comments