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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

anti_supernaturalist: on 7/10/10 at 19:31pm UTC, wrote SSR fails Kuhn’s failed ideology captures sociology of religion, not...

Joe: on 2/8/10 at 0:20am UTC, wrote Bill, Another insight into the mystery is offered at...

William Foehringer: on 1/25/10 at 16:26pm UTC, wrote Information is conserved like energy is conserved. Steps to destroy...

STEVE JEFFREY: on 1/15/10 at 8:32am UTC, wrote Why is 2+2=4 NOT SO. Why can't we add E=MC^2 2+2=4.? Why can't we add the...

Joseph S. Johnson: on 11/22/09 at 4:00am UTC, wrote End of the Quantum Road? What does the “End of the Quantum Road” tell...

reasonmclucus: on 9/7/09 at 6:27am UTC, wrote Most of physics involves dualities. Positive and negative charges, north...

Steve Dufourny: on 7/9/09 at 8:06am UTC, wrote Hello all, I think it's a very interesting work about these pair photons...

Anonymous: on 7/4/09 at 19:02pm UTC, wrote So information theory is the ultimate reality?



FQXi FORUM
May 26, 2017

ARTICLE: Readers' Choice: End of the Quantum Road? [back to article]
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Anonymous wrote on Jul. 4, 2009 @ 19:02 GMT
So information theory is the ultimate reality?

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Steve Dufourny wrote on Jul. 9, 2009 @ 08:06 GMT
Hello all,

I think it's a very interesting work about these pair photons and the potential of cryptography thus the codes of communication .

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reasonmclucus wrote on Sep. 7, 2009 @ 06:27 GMT
Most of physics involves dualities. Positive and negative charges, north and south poles in magnets, matter and anti-matter, etc.

In a broader context quantum physics may represent disorganized behavior as the opposite of the organized behavior of classical physics.

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Joseph S. Johnson wrote on Nov. 22, 2009 @ 04:00 GMT
End of the Quantum Road?

What does the “End of the Quantum Road” tell us other than perhaps we are somehow missing the point of science.

Stuart Kauffman’s “At Home in the Universe” describes a self-organizing universe, the indefinite evolution of system complexity (IESC), as though it were a cosmic process imperative. Biological systems seem nothing less than an essential and integral agency of the IESC. The human agent has fixated upon the objective means of sustaining the process but will soon become extinct if the subjective essentials do not direct constructive application of objective means.

But how does the agent find and recognize subjective essentials in nature? It’s easy. The agent merely looks back upstream of the process of emergence for the deeper natural order of which “things” are merely the expression. Emergent biological properties are sustained at a deeper level by emergent properties of chemical processes which are sustained at a deeper level by emergent properties of physical processes. Physicists dismiss this Reductionism, assuming that the objective structure ‘bottoms’ at physics, adding no new information. But Gödel reminds us that

“If an axiomatic system can be proven to be consistent and complete from within itself, then it is inconsistent.

“Therefore, in order to establish the consistency of a system S, one needs to utilize some other more powerful system T, but a proof in T is not completely convincing unless T's consistency has already been established without using S.” [Wikipedia]

But if objective physics is system S, what is system T?

“Although the theory of everything still eludes us, the language has been learned – whatever new answers are found, and deeper questions spawned, about the universe or its mathematical fabric, at the center will be symmetry.”[Lederman & Hill (2004) “Symmetry and the Beautiful Universe,” Prometheus Books, N.Y. p. 289]

And if symmetry is now system S, what is system T if not aesthetics? Why do we know this? We know this because millions of years of natural selection rewards emergence of the neural faculties essential to understand, and feelings to motivate, choices relevant to sustaining more complex subjective systems essential to the IESC. Why should we be surprised that virtually all the monotheistic religions (i.e. human intuition) support the symmetry, the reciprocity of the Golden Rule? When will science get serious about the essential aesthetics of civil order? Without it, we won’t survive.

Joe

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STEVE JEFFREY wrote on Jan. 15, 2010 @ 08:32 GMT
Why is 2+2=4 NOT SO.

Why can't we add E=MC^2 2+2=4.?

Why can't we add the standard equation to Einsteins gravity 2+2=4.?

Why can't we get one equation instead of two by adding in 1/3s.

1/3 CUCUMBER+ 1/3 GREEN APPLE+ 1/3 GREEN BANANA= 1 GREEN SALAD SANDWHICH......

This means adding two equations together in 1/3s to get one equation for both.

Why doesn't this work with Einsteins thoery and quantum emchanics.

How can we make it work.?

Steve

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William h Foehringer wrote on Jan. 25, 2010 @ 16:26 GMT
Information is conserved like energy is conserved. Steps to destroy information will simply create more information in the form of those steps. However, is this concept of information obscuring a deeper concept? Is there a substrata of existence? Is there any reason to think that such a strata is the ultimate? The answers to these questions will be found when we can rid ourselves of the blinders imposed by 'the beginning'. Even the concept of muliverses acts as a blinder to understanding existence. The multiverse concept is just saying that there are many beginnings, many big bangs, many Creations, but not describing anything new. Our long cultural immersion in beginnings theology colors our thinking about reality. We have to let go. The idea of information is a step away from our physical reality but does not go far enough because it is ultimately still just referring to (information about) existing systems. We are catching glimpses through dark matter that there was no 'formless void' into which our universe ermerged. Something existed before and continues to exist today to which our existence is connected in a subtle way.

Bill

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Joe replied on Feb. 8, 2010 @ 00:20 GMT
Bill,

Another insight into the mystery is offered at http://www3.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw/ where the fractal structure of natural order, i.e. the self-similarity of expression at all scales is implied, there being three major scales in which nearly all mass is concentrated; atomic, stellar and galactic. In other words, the big bang history from our perspective might be early in an expanding supernova moment from the next larger stellar scale perspective. Any adjacent set of three such scales would likely support a life-form (such as ourselves) and a total body of accessible knowledge confined to just such 3-scale set by Plank limits at the small end, and c at the larger scale. As suggested earlier, Godel’s second incompleteness theorem suggests that Physics must reduce beyond the physical to the more fundamental subjective constraint through symmetry into aesthetic principles for which our most evolved neural faculties were naturally selected, for a reason. The objective world seems to exist for no other reason than a basis for the (subjective) experience of novelty which is not possible without perceived differences made possible by imposed limits. Our neural associative faculties give us objective means for survival, such as our sciences and technology, but without paying attention to both social and ecological harmony, reciprocity, etc (essentials of aesthetics; remember the Golden Rule?) we will soon become extinct. Indeed, atmospheric oxygen is at about 20.95 percent and has begun rapidly decreasing, while we require 19.5 percent to survive in good health.

Joe

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anti_supernaturalist wrote on Jul. 10, 2010 @ 19:31 GMT
SSR fails

Kuhn’s failed ideology captures sociology of religion, not science

Philosophers place Kuhn among useless historians of science. Historians of science place Kuhn among useless philosopher of science. Physicists misunderstand the philosophy of science. They also ignore good history of science. Each know that Kuhn couldn’t have been right in their niche, but being niche...

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