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Anonymous: "How do thought and mathematical description fundamentally relate to..." in Essay Contest 2010: What...
Anonymous: "This next contest should advance physics fundamentally, including how..." in Essay Contest 2010: What...
Anonymous: "These four: electromagnetism, gravity, inertia --- and quantum mechanics..." in Philosophy vs. Physics
T H Ray: "Lorentz transformation does not "mingle past and future." Spacetime in..." in Philosophy vs. Physics
T H Ray: "I think a less technical way to speak of the difference between quantum and..." in GRW vs Free Will
Steve Dufourny: "Hi dear Don, Interesting for the link between numbers and mass.....it's..." in GRW vs Free Will
RECENT ARTICLES
click titles to read articles
Readers' Choice: The Holographic Universe
Take one universe. Turn it into a hologram. Find its quantum wavefunction. Understand the birth of our cosmos.
The Quantum PlayStation
How the PS3 is helping physicists develop a theory of quantum gravity.
The Destiny of the Universe
A radical reformulation of quantum mechanics suggests that the universe has a set destiny and its pre-existing fate reaches back in time to influence the past. It could explain the origin of life, dark energy and solve other cosmic conundrums.
Time and the Multiverse
Could multiple universes explain our arrow of time? Does time run backwards in other universes?
The Black Hole Universe
Is our universe housed in a black hole? Or did it exist before the Big Bang? If so, we could solve the mystery of dark energy—surprisingly, it could all be down to the humble neutrino.
FQXi BLOGS
September 2, 2010
While we’re waiting for the results of the Nature of Time essay contest, I thought I’d tell you about my own efforts to get a better grip on the slippery sands of time, by chatting to Dan Falk, a science journalist based in Toronto, who has recently published a book called “In Search of Time.”
Falk’s book examines time from our earliest prehistoric bone carvings all the way up to present...
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Falk’s book examines time from our earliest prehistoric bone carvings all the way up to present...
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this post has been edited by the forum administrator
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I find it hard to understand why sensible scientists are still contemplating time travel. The very existence of the time travel paradoxes shows that the space-time model is incorrect or rather in need of modification.
There already is a really simple and, to my mind, satisfying explanation of how time arises.
If subjective time is to be considered a delusion, then the whole of the reality that we inhabit is also a delusion. That subjective reality is the reality in which science is conducted and is the reality that most people would call real. Rather than denigrate the whole reality of experience with such a negative term (delusion), it should merely be recognised for what it is. It is the inevitable consequence of the interface with the objective material reality, across the Prime reality interface.
Emotion language with negative connotation should not in my opinion be used in regard to a phenomenon, merely because it results in part from an interface between biology and physics. Interdisciplinary science will become of far greater importance as the overlap between the individual sciences is recognised.
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There already is a really simple and, to my mind, satisfying explanation of how time arises.
If subjective time is to be considered a delusion, then the whole of the reality that we inhabit is also a delusion. That subjective reality is the reality in which science is conducted and is the reality that most people would call real. Rather than denigrate the whole reality of experience with such a negative term (delusion), it should merely be recognised for what it is. It is the inevitable consequence of the interface with the objective material reality, across the Prime reality interface.
Emotion language with negative connotation should not in my opinion be used in regard to a phenomenon, merely because it results in part from an interface between biology and physics. Interdisciplinary science will become of far greater importance as the overlap between the individual sciences is recognised.
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Time travel, worm holes, warp drives and so forth involve certain solutions to the Einstein field equations which violate the weak energy condition. The energy associated with the curvature of space can be negative with no lower bound. This means quantum mechanically that the fields which are the source of the curvature have no minimal energy quantum state, and can then decay endlessly down a ladder of states emitting lots of radiation. So this probably puts some limits on these ideas.
The importance has less to do with any real time traveling, but more to get a firm grip on the structure of quantum fields in curved spacetime and ultimately quantum gravity.
Lawrence B. Crowell
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The importance has less to do with any real time traveling, but more to get a firm grip on the structure of quantum fields in curved spacetime and ultimately quantum gravity.
Lawrence B. Crowell
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Lawrence,
perhaps rather than getting a firm grip, the grip has been lost.
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perhaps rather than getting a firm grip, the grip has been lost.
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You remind me of some naysayer telling the Wright brothers, "It'll never get off the ground."
L. C.
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L. C.
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Lawrence,Georgina,
"This means quantum mechanically that the fields which are the source of the curvature have no minimal energy quantum state, and can then decay endlessly down a ladder of states emitting lots of radiation. So this probably puts some limits on these ideas.
The importance has less to do with any real time traveling, but more to get a firm grip on the structure of quantum fields in curved spacetime and ultimately quantum gravity."
"perhaps rather than getting a firm grip, the grip has been lost."
I couldn't help thinking you are both saying the same thing, that reality isn't hard and fast, but that it is inherently frayed around the edges, that what we think of as reality is emergent and in trying to peel away the layers, we lose the basic conceptual premises as well.
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"This means quantum mechanically that the fields which are the source of the curvature have no minimal energy quantum state, and can then decay endlessly down a ladder of states emitting lots of radiation. So this probably puts some limits on these ideas.
The importance has less to do with any real time traveling, but more to get a firm grip on the structure of quantum fields in curved spacetime and ultimately quantum gravity."
"perhaps rather than getting a firm grip, the grip has been lost."
I couldn't help thinking you are both saying the same thing, that reality isn't hard and fast, but that it is inherently frayed around the edges, that what we think of as reality is emergent and in trying to peel away the layers, we lose the basic conceptual premises as well.
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This points to how quantum mechanical basis for spacetime configurations obeys boundedness conditions. The eigen-spectrum is bounded below, which is what is expected of any well behaved quantum system. The work by Ford and Roman have provided good arguments for a correlation between no time travel and well behaved quantum physics with gravity. The matter is not of course finished, but the work so far is strongly suggestive.
Lawrence B. Crowell
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Lawrence B. Crowell
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John,
blessed are the peacemakers. Your holistic insight gives you great credit in my estimation.
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blessed are the peacemakers. Your holistic insight gives you great credit in my estimation.
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http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026764.100-why-natur
e-is-not-the-sum-of-its-parts.html
http://www.newscientist.co
m/article/dn16095-its-confirmed-matter-is-merely-vacuum-fluc
tuations.html
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e-is-not-the-sum-of-its-parts.html
http://www.newscientist.co
m/article/dn16095-its-confirmed-matter-is-merely-vacuum-fluc
tuations.html
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Thank you for those links.
Not only may it be impossible to predict what emerges but we are limited by the information we receive across the Prime reality Interface. If no information crosses from some part of objective reality then it will not form a part of our subjective reality, models or prediction.
It is once again perhaps jounalistic sensationalism to say that all matter is just vacuum fluctuation. Since the dimensions in which we live are actually 4 spatio-energetic dimensions, it really depends on how the idea is expressed. A change in energy is also a change in position in space. Macroscopic bodies are made of particles.Particles change position in space. This can be expressed in terms of energy chganges.
The macroscopic body can then either be described in terms of position in space determined by fluctuating positions of particles or energy fluctuations of individual particles.One description just sounds more exiting than the other but they are essentially the same thing expressed in two different ways.
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Not only may it be impossible to predict what emerges but we are limited by the information we receive across the Prime reality Interface. If no information crosses from some part of objective reality then it will not form a part of our subjective reality, models or prediction.
It is once again perhaps jounalistic sensationalism to say that all matter is just vacuum fluctuation. Since the dimensions in which we live are actually 4 spatio-energetic dimensions, it really depends on how the idea is expressed. A change in energy is also a change in position in space. Macroscopic bodies are made of particles.Particles change position in space. This can be expressed in terms of energy chganges.
The macroscopic body can then either be described in terms of position in space determined by fluctuating positions of particles or energy fluctuations of individual particles.One description just sounds more exiting than the other but they are essentially the same thing expressed in two different ways.
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This example also clearly shows how description given depends upon the model used and which aspect of a subject or phenomenon is highlighted by that model.
I should perhaps say, for those that have not read any of my previous posts...
According to the Prime quaternion model, sub atomic particles are able to pop into and out of 3D vector space by moving directly along the 4th dimension. This movement is equivalent to a change in potential energy. Movement afore is a loss of potential energy. Movement aft is a gain in potential energy.
This movement, as well as movement through 3D vector space (kinetic energy) and spin (which is oscillation along the 4th dimension according to the model) will account for "vacuum fluctuations".
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I should perhaps say, for those that have not read any of my previous posts...
According to the Prime quaternion model, sub atomic particles are able to pop into and out of 3D vector space by moving directly along the 4th dimension. This movement is equivalent to a change in potential energy. Movement afore is a loss of potential energy. Movement aft is a gain in potential energy.
This movement, as well as movement through 3D vector space (kinetic energy) and spin (which is oscillation along the 4th dimension according to the model) will account for "vacuum fluctuations".
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I don't have a problem with time travel. Going back in time we become observers of a static history that we bring into action by our motion through time. However, going forward to the future matters: our 'real' presence can contribute to its events. The past-future time asymmetry is obvious.
Also, curvature (as anti-information content) is the key that leads to everything else; that is, the quantum fields that we interpret substantively...
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Also, curvature (as anti-information content) is the key that leads to everything else; that is, the quantum fields that we interpret substantively...
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The past can not have a material existence because this means that every fraction of a second matter is replicating so that it can exist in past and present. Where are the subatomic particles coming from for the replication smeared through out time?
The same problem arises with the multiverse idea. Where does all the matter come from in all of the variations of reality, if the matter of the universe must be replicated numerous times every fraction of a second or whenever alternative possibilities arise?
The historical past is merely due to the way in which the mind works, memories are formed and subjective reality is formed. Relativity occurs because a subjective reality is formed from electromagnetic radiation that has travelled across the Prime Reality Interface. This electromagnetic radiation is just an image of objective reality, not objective reality itself. The image can be observed at different times by different observers but that does not mean that the thing that is seen is still in that place, form or even still exists.
I must also say, while I am here, that I did enjoy Julian Barbour's essay. It was very interesting, educational and well written. It is very interesting to discover how different people interpret things. I can see that there has been a lot of careful thought about the subject which shines throughout the essay.
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The same problem arises with the multiverse idea. Where does all the matter come from in all of the variations of reality, if the matter of the universe must be replicated numerous times every fraction of a second or whenever alternative possibilities arise?
The historical past is merely due to the way in which the mind works, memories are formed and subjective reality is formed. Relativity occurs because a subjective reality is formed from electromagnetic radiation that has travelled across the Prime Reality Interface. This electromagnetic radiation is just an image of objective reality, not objective reality itself. The image can be observed at different times by different observers but that does not mean that the thing that is seen is still in that place, form or even still exists.
I must also say, while I am here, that I did enjoy Julian Barbour's essay. It was very interesting, educational and well written. It is very interesting to discover how different people interpret things. I can see that there has been a lot of careful thought about the subject which shines throughout the essay.
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Georgina,
I agree with you about time travel, that the multiplication of energy required doesn't fulfill Occam's Razor, but I still think your four dimensions are emergent model, not fundamental basis.
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I agree with you about time travel, that the multiplication of energy required doesn't fulfill Occam's Razor, but I still think your four dimensions are emergent model, not fundamental basis.
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I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.
Sarah
http://www.craigslistdecoded.info
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Sarah
http://www.craigslistdecoded.info
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Time does not go anywhere as universe is timeless (atemporal).
attachments: 2_ETERNITY_IS_NOW_Sorli_2009.pdf
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attachments: 2_ETERNITY_IS_NOW_Sorli_2009.pdf
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John,
and I agree with you on that. I could describe a rose flower with as much biological accuracy and detail as possible, whilst also trying to express an emotional connection to its beauty and transitory nature. However good that description is made it will never actually be a rose flower.
The same is true of any scientific model. However good it is at explaining physical phenomena and observations made within the subjective reality as well being self consistent, fitting with other scientific models and answering the fundamental questions, it is still only a model not objective reality itself.
No description and no model can be. They are created by the mind. The question is, if we must have a model to comprehend how the universe functions at all scales, which model, whilst retaining logic and being self consistent, can explain the most.
The Prime quaternion model not only works at a scientific level but on other levels too. It encompasses the constant flow and becoming of the universe and recognition that ultimately everything is a part of the One, as explained by Buddhism and Taoism. It also shows that there is ultimately a Creator of the universe (Quaternion Megauniverse) that is eternal, existing without time from which all matter, structure, forces and subjective time arise.
I therefore,personally, find this model far more satisfying than a model that says the whole universe sprang from a singularity because given infinite time anything can happen and probably does.
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and I agree with you on that. I could describe a rose flower with as much biological accuracy and detail as possible, whilst also trying to express an emotional connection to its beauty and transitory nature. However good that description is made it will never actually be a rose flower.
The same is true of any scientific model. However good it is at explaining physical phenomena and observations made within the subjective reality as well being self consistent, fitting with other scientific models and answering the fundamental questions, it is still only a model not objective reality itself.
No description and no model can be. They are created by the mind. The question is, if we must have a model to comprehend how the universe functions at all scales, which model, whilst retaining logic and being self consistent, can explain the most.
The Prime quaternion model not only works at a scientific level but on other levels too. It encompasses the constant flow and becoming of the universe and recognition that ultimately everything is a part of the One, as explained by Buddhism and Taoism. It also shows that there is ultimately a Creator of the universe (Quaternion Megauniverse) that is eternal, existing without time from which all matter, structure, forces and subjective time arise.
I therefore,personally, find this model far more satisfying than a model that says the whole universe sprang from a singularity because given infinite time anything can happen and probably does.
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...I think I should have said infinite probability rather than infinite time above, because time only comes into existence when the universe arises in that model
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How many fundamental questions must a model be able to answer before it is worthy of serious consideration? If all of the fundamental questions are answered, on what grounds other than correspondence with other science, self consistency and logic can a model be judged if it is a model of objective reality, which is by definition unknowable and inaccessible to the scientific method?
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I'm wondering if I can draw a parallel here. When Stephen Hawkings talks about information content on the surface of a black hole event horizon, he says that information is conserved. When black holes gobble up stars and dust, the black hole gets larger and the information content increases.
Now, let's take our physical universe. There was a Big Bang, long ago. The four dimensional volume of the universe is expanding. History and memory acumulates; the layers of rock in a canyon tell us information about the past. The number of quantum interactions that have occured accumulate with time. As time marches forward, doesn't it seem as if information is created in time?
Could information content (what Hawkins talks about) be a function of time? Or am I making false analogies?
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Now, let's take our physical universe. There was a Big Bang, long ago. The four dimensional volume of the universe is expanding. History and memory acumulates; the layers of rock in a canyon tell us information about the past. The number of quantum interactions that have occured accumulate with time. As time marches forward, doesn't it seem as if information is created in time?
Could information content (what Hawkins talks about) be a function of time? Or am I making false analogies?
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Hi Jason, please read my essay on time. There you will find just that concept. Curvature is anti-information...
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The total information of the universe, or number of quantum bits probably remains constant. This is the whole idea of the quantum error correction code. What does change on a coarse grained scale is tha apparent decoherence of quantum bits. The joint information between two bits in an entanglement can have negative entropy, but if there is a decoherence which hides the entanglement in a reservoir of states, or behind an event horizon, this negative entropy is hidden. This then gives the appearance of there being more information in the universe. Conversely this process can give the appearance of the loss of information.
Lawrence B. Crowell
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Lawrence B. Crowell
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Lawrence,
I'm sure I don't understand the definition of information.
It seems like, at work, there is just more and more information to remember, more siutations going on that i have to take into account. That was when I thought of this idea that information grows in time. But I'm sure that's subjective on my part.
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I'm sure I don't understand the definition of information.
It seems like, at work, there is just more and more information to remember, more siutations going on that i have to take into account. That was when I thought of this idea that information grows in time. But I'm sure that's subjective on my part.
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For a simple two-state systme the state vector is
|Y) = |0)cos(@) + i|1)e^{i phi}sin(@)
for the angle @ the relative phase between the two states on the argand plane and the angle phi an arbitrary phase between the two states. The two information states are given by the projectors P_0 and P_1 which act on the state to tive
P_0|Y) = |0)cos(@)
P_1|Y) = i|1)e^{i phi}sin(@)
The projectors map out the two quantum bits |0) and |1).
The density matrix |Y)(Y| will contain off diagonal term |0)(1| and |1)(0| which contain the elements e^{iphi}cos(@)sin(@) and are associated with a joint entropy that can be negative. In a decoherence, such as what happens in a measurment these off diagonal terms are removed. The entanglement phase of the system is buried away or lost to the environment. Thie means the information associated with the system appears more "classical-like." There is then the appearance of more information on the coarse grained perspective.
Lawrence B. Crowell
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|Y) = |0)cos(@) + i|1)e^{i phi}sin(@)
for the angle @ the relative phase between the two states on the argand plane and the angle phi an arbitrary phase between the two states. The two information states are given by the projectors P_0 and P_1 which act on the state to tive
P_0|Y) = |0)cos(@)
P_1|Y) = i|1)e^{i phi}sin(@)
The projectors map out the two quantum bits |0) and |1).
The density matrix |Y)(Y| will contain off diagonal term |0)(1| and |1)(0| which contain the elements e^{iphi}cos(@)sin(@) and are associated with a joint entropy that can be negative. In a decoherence, such as what happens in a measurment these off diagonal terms are removed. The entanglement phase of the system is buried away or lost to the environment. Thie means the information associated with the system appears more "classical-like." There is then the appearance of more information on the coarse grained perspective.
Lawrence B. Crowell
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Hi dear all,
Time is a constant in the physical universe and its spheric building.
Personnaly,the travel in time is impossible ,past is the past ,nevertheless some instants foto to see our past is possible ,it's different .For the future ,it's always the spherization logic of building .That's why we are catalysts ,builders ,a application of my spherization Theory is the...
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Time is a constant in the physical universe and its spheric building.
Personnaly,the travel in time is impossible ,past is the past ,nevertheless some instants foto to see our past is possible ,it's different .For the future ,it's always the spherization logic of building .That's why we are catalysts ,builders ,a application of my spherization Theory is the...
view entire post
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Steve,
While overall knowledge is a cumulatively expanding sphere of interlocking insight, the individual's ability to process it is still serially proscribed. So in order to effectively interact with other individuals, you need to edit your insights as forthrightly as possible, or they will do it automatically and specific points you may consider of primary importance get overlooked.
That said, you do manage to draw a specific insight from an extremely diverse perspective. Keep it up, but remember; Information is knowledge. Wisdom is editing.
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While overall knowledge is a cumulatively expanding sphere of interlocking insight, the individual's ability to process it is still serially proscribed. So in order to effectively interact with other individuals, you need to edit your insights as forthrightly as possible, or they will do it automatically and specific points you may consider of primary importance get overlooked.
That said, you do manage to draw a specific insight from an extremely diverse perspective. Keep it up, but remember; Information is knowledge. Wisdom is editing.
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I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.
Alanna
http://www.craigslistsimplified.info
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Alanna
http://www.craigslistsimplified.info
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Myke,
I'm also working with the curvature / generalized angular momenta idea. Could you briefly explain why you identify "anti-information" with "curvature?" I've been treating curvature as information simply because it corresponds to energy/anisotropy; such nonuniformity provides the potential to do work; to communicate. Communication increases entropy as information is spread and the system becomes homogeneous.
With entropy or information content considered to be a quantification of states, we expect entropy increase or increase of micro-states when we follow processes along the "time direction." i.e. single big inhomogeneities lead to multiple smaller ones. The energy or information is "communicated."
Back on topic, I think it's convenient to work with particle-like states for information storage, rather than wave/light-like states which indicate communication. However, under John G. Cramer's Transactional Interpretation (TI) or the holographic principle, etc., the two are equivalent. It seems we are free to choose.
I suppose it's a matter of perspective where we assign the information. In conserved systems, and according to the TI, we know every quantum of information is really one of a pair or higher multiplicity of the state. (e.g. for every infalling quantum of radiation, an event horizon gives rise to the quantum's anti-"particle." - Hawking radiation)
So whether it is the curled state of energy (position/rest-mass/angular-momentum) that I consider informative, or the unfurled quantum (linear-momentum/photon) you consider "information," our viewpoints are symmetric. (assuming the phenomena correspond, "information" vs. "anti-information" are 100% mutual/redundant.) There is no unique information without broken symmetry, so we might say there is no meaningful observation without limited perspective. This is why I struggle a bit with what seems like a "trivial theory of everything." This notion of perfect conservation of energy is essentially the underpinning of supersymmetry, and it reminds me of Feynman's trivial quip, "F=0."
I aim to read your essay soon; we share at least one common viewpoint, even if we take dual perspectives. It should be interesting to see the intersection.
-Ryan
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I'm also working with the curvature / generalized angular momenta idea. Could you briefly explain why you identify "anti-information" with "curvature?" I've been treating curvature as information simply because it corresponds to energy/anisotropy; such nonuniformity provides the potential to do work; to communicate. Communication increases entropy as information is spread and the system becomes homogeneous.
With entropy or information content considered to be a quantification of states, we expect entropy increase or increase of micro-states when we follow processes along the "time direction." i.e. single big inhomogeneities lead to multiple smaller ones. The energy or information is "communicated."
Back on topic, I think it's convenient to work with particle-like states for information storage, rather than wave/light-like states which indicate communication. However, under John G. Cramer's Transactional Interpretation (TI) or the holographic principle, etc., the two are equivalent. It seems we are free to choose.
I suppose it's a matter of perspective where we assign the information. In conserved systems, and according to the TI, we know every quantum of information is really one of a pair or higher multiplicity of the state. (e.g. for every infalling quantum of radiation, an event horizon gives rise to the quantum's anti-"particle." - Hawking radiation)
So whether it is the curled state of energy (position/rest-mass/angular-momentum) that I consider informative, or the unfurled quantum (linear-momentum/photon) you consider "information," our viewpoints are symmetric. (assuming the phenomena correspond, "information" vs. "anti-information" are 100% mutual/redundant.) There is no unique information without broken symmetry, so we might say there is no meaningful observation without limited perspective. This is why I struggle a bit with what seems like a "trivial theory of everything." This notion of perfect conservation of energy is essentially the underpinning of supersymmetry, and it reminds me of Feynman's trivial quip, "F=0."
I aim to read your essay soon; we share at least one common viewpoint, even if we take dual perspectives. It should be interesting to see the intersection.
-Ryan
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Hi all ,
Dear John ,
thanks for your post .
I d like say one thing ,sorry for the last post ,I d like insist on a global point of vue about spherization ,that's why I have explained that about Malaria .
The complementarity and the iteractions are so fascinating to improve our systems in correlation with foundamental laws.
Dear Ryan ,
It's interesting what you say about information and curvatures .Could you tell me more about that ,please .
Kinds Regards
Steve
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Dear John ,
thanks for your post .
I d like say one thing ,sorry for the last post ,I d like insist on a global point of vue about spherization ,that's why I have explained that about Malaria .
The complementarity and the iteractions are so fascinating to improve our systems in correlation with foundamental laws.
Dear Ryan ,
It's interesting what you say about information and curvatures .Could you tell me more about that ,please .
Kinds Regards
Steve
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Linear time past-present-future is in the mind. Its physical basis is in the neuronal activity of the brain. Time is a glasses through we experience motion in space that itself is timeless. Clocks run in timeless space. Motion has duration because we experience it through the “glasses of time”. With time all is fine, just we have do not understand fully that time does not exists as a physical reality. Einstein was aware of that, Mach too, Gödel and some other peak scientist. I’m deeply impressed that many of physicists here understand the subject. Once this vision will enter books of physics the whole humanity will transformed. The whole humanity will wake up into timeless universe that we humans experience as present moment. This present moment is always the same. This present moment is eternity in which we exist. Hard to understand, harder to accept, but it is so. ETERNITY IS NOW. This insight will burn religious believes, national identification, racial tensions, this insight is he base for planetary civilization, for peace and prosperity on this planet.
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Recent research in neurology shows that our liner experiencing of events in the perspective of "past-present-future" has its basis in neuronal activity of the brain.
Consequences of that fact are deep. Einstein vision of time as human invention is becoming relevant.
attachments: Neurophysiology_of_Time.pdf
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Consequences of that fact are deep. Einstein vision of time as human invention is becoming relevant.
attachments: Neurophysiology_of_Time.pdf
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