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Georgina Woodward: on 11/2/17 at 5:23am UTC, wrote Maybe I should mention that the present 'sensory product' is not fabricated...

Georgina Woodward: on 11/1/17 at 20:27pm UTC, wrote It is necessary to separate what an observer fabricates from received...

amrit: on 11/1/17 at 17:50pm UTC, wrote We say in physics that at the speed of light time stops. But we know that...

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Joe Fisher: on 9/7/17 at 14:23pm UTC, wrote Dear Sridattadev, Please be informed that it am physically impossible for...



FQXi FORUM
December 15, 2017

ARTICLE: Watching the Observers [back to article]
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Steve Dufourny wrote on Jun. 14, 2017 @ 06:02 GMT
Hi Mr Foster,

It is a very relevant project and work.We search this quantum weakest force,and we shall find and prove it one day. Thanks for sharing.

Congratulations to Mrs Fuentes ,

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Georgina Woodward wrote on Jun. 14, 2017 @ 08:57 GMT
Accepting that the two versions of observer are not necessarily incompatible and also that they are clearly not the same at the different scales of physics, what does it mean to "make the ways of observing agree"? That is not a rhetorical question but asking about what the word "agree" is meant to denote in this context.

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Georgina Woodward replied on Jun. 14, 2017 @ 09:58 GMT
An observer can be taken to be that which makes a representation from the received information, so the same for both scales. However at the quantum scale there is interaction with what is observed - At the quantum scale there is provocation or a trial of some kind whereby the system is made to respond and that response is what is detected and made into the representation. There is no interaction with astronomical objects when they are observed via the processing of received em information. At that large scale the state of motion affects what em information is received to be formed into the representation that is produced. It is a one way relationship of information receipt leading to the product.

What would agreement of observation at the different scales entail, how does that word apply?

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Georgina Woodward replied on Jun. 14, 2017 @ 20:29 GMT
Quote,""Quantum theory can tell us at the end what we can say and what we cannot about the universe," says Mancini." I don't know why that authority should be given specifically to quantum theory. It seems that it is indicating a flaw in the reductionist ideal-that the closer we look the nearer we get to the truth of the matter. Whereas the closer we look the harder it is not to disturb what we are looking at, and incorporating that into a model. It does show that our models are built from information and that information is not immutable. The quantum experiment is about producing information that can be detected whereas the astronomical observation is about receiving information long after production by nature.

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Georgina Woodward replied on Jun. 14, 2017 @ 22:42 GMT
By not immutable I meant what information is brought into existence depends upon what is done in the quantum experiment; and for macroscopic observation the existing information is subject to what happens to it between emission and receipt.

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Joe Fisher wrote on Jun. 14, 2017 @ 15:16 GMT
Dear Dr. Foster,

Although it might appear to be far-fetched to all of you, I am convinced that all of the Popes who have ever lived have been wrong about their complex contention that the universe was created piecemeal by an invisible God. I know it must appear absurd to all of you, but I can prove that all of the physicists presently alive are completely wrong about their incomprehensible assertion that according to a space dot com article published online: “Due to a random fluctuation in a completely empty void, a universe exploded into existence. Something the size of a subatomic particle inflated to unimaginably huge size in a fraction of a second, driven apart by negative-pressure vacuum energy. Scientists called this (complicated) theory for the origin of the universe the Big Bang.”

Physicists, only Nature could produce the simplest reality. The real visible Universe must consist only of a unified infinite surface occurring in one infinite dimension that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

Joe Fisher, Realist

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Steve Agnew wrote on Jun. 16, 2017 @ 02:42 GMT
Thank goodness for small favors...we are finally freed from the tyranny of Sabine...

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Georgina Woodward replied on Jun. 16, 2017 @ 07:58 GMT
tyranny?

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Steve Agnew wrote on Jun. 16, 2017 @ 14:51 GMT
Notions of time are indeed quite different between classical gravity and quantum charge and it is great to see such work funded. Unfortunately, classical observers use the single time dimension of an atomic clock in their time measurements while quantum observers use two time dimensions in their time measurements; both atomic time as well as phase decay time.

Now the universe mass is subject to action and that action has both time dimensions. Thus far, science has ignored phase decay time for gravity since quantum phase decay and the second time dimension play no roles in relativity.

Two identical high precision single atom clocks started in phase eventually dephase from each other due to quantum phase noise. That dephasing rate can be due to many complicated factors...but there is an intrinsic dephasing rate of 0.26 ppb/yr for a single atom clock. This dephasing rate shows up in the decay of millisecond pulsars, the decay of earth's rotation, and the decay of the IPK mass standard.

This new work will be successful if it uses real measurements to define phase decay as the very important second time dimension. Mainstream science does not yet recognize an intrinsic phase decay time for the universe that is actually different from atomic time even though science measures quantum phase decay.

An absolute quantum phase decay time is the key to quantum gravity...

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Joe Fisher replied on Jun. 16, 2017 @ 15:32 GMT
Dear Steve,

The simplest natural construction of infinite surface requires no silly notions about finite time, or any unnatural flawed human speculation about finite mathematics either.

Joe Fisher, Realist

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Steve Agnew replied on Jun. 19, 2017 @ 04:36 GMT
Actually the simplest natural construction of reality requires no silly notions of space and time or any unnatural flawed human speculation about finite math either. The only requirement is for matter and action...

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Joe Fisher replied on Jun. 20, 2017 @ 15:23 GMT
You almost have it Steve. But please remember it am infinite surface, not finite “matter.”

Joe Fisher, Realist

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Lorraine Ford wrote on Jun. 17, 2017 @ 00:20 GMT
1. Free Will

Quantum “random” outcomes are random or indeterminate from the point of view of an observer [1]: but are they random from the point of view of the observed thing [1]?

I contend that outcomes are not random from the point of view of the observed thing: the outcomes are only random from the point of view of the observer of the thing:

Clearly the observed thing is not 100% subject to the laws-of-nature [2], because not all variable numeric values representing the outcomes are 100% deterministically predictable by law-of-nature equations. But if the observed thing is subject to “random” numeric values, then the outcome will look random to both the observer and the observed.

Only if the observed thing has itself created new information, which changes what we would represent as variable numeric values representing the outcome, will the outcome appear to be not random from the point of view of the observed thing.

2. Consciousness/ Subjective Experience

What is an “observer”?

If the “observer” is one of several fundamental aspects of reality, then all of reality derived from the fundamentals will be understandable in terms of the fundamental aspects, but the “observer” and the other fundamental aspects will not be understandable in terms of its derivative reality.

I contend that the “observer” is one of the fundamental aspects of reality.

1. Multicellular living things including people, single cell living things, molecules, atoms, particles.

2. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_nature , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_science .

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Joe Fisher replied on Jun. 17, 2017 @ 14:32 GMT
Dear Lorraine,

All humanly contrived complex, abstract concepts, such as the ones concerning “free-will, and the meaning of meaning are nothing more than pretentiously provided codswallop. Nature has freely constructed the simplest of visible physical appearance Only infinite surface that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light has ever eternally existed.

Joe Fisher, Realist.

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Karl H Coryat wrote on Jul. 4, 2017 @ 02:51 GMT
I wish FQXi offered a way to vote certain people off the island.

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Gary D. Simpson wrote on Jul. 4, 2017 @ 05:14 GMT
Karl,

ROFL:-)

Maybe a tribal challenge? Anyone who does not have a testable hypothesis is fed to the sharks ..... Oops ... letting my own prejudices slip in there ...

Keep up the good thinking.

Best Regards,

Gary Simpson

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Joe Fisher replied on Jul. 4, 2017 @ 15:26 GMT
Dear Karl and Gary,

I wish you would accept the irrefutable truth that only Nature could possibly devise the simplest physical construct obtainable. The real Universe must consists only of one singular unified visible surface occurring in one singular infinite dimension that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light. The Sahara Desert and the Pacific Ocean and every one of the craters on the moon are naturally formed and they all have one visible thing in common. They all have a surface. The Empire State building and the Golden Gate Bridge and the Sky-Lab space station are all man-made artifacts and they all have one visual thing in common. They all have a surface.

Do you want to suppress my truth? You are discomforted by simplicity?

Joe Fisher, Realist

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amrit wrote on Aug. 4, 2017 @ 12:16 GMT
The observer is CONSCIOUSNESS IN ACTION.

attachments: Advanced_Relativity_1.pdf, Advanced_Relativity_2.pdf

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Joe Fisher replied on Aug. 4, 2017 @ 13:34 GMT
Dear Amrit,

You were quite wrong for expressing inaccurate finite information about invisible abstract observers when you informed us that: “The observer is CONSCIOUSNESS IN ACTION” Fortunately, every real person does know that Nature must have provided us with the simplest visible physical reality obtainable. The real Universe consists only of one single unified visible infinite surface occurring in one single infinite dimension that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

Joe Fisher, ORCID ID 0000-0003-3988-8687. Unaffiliated

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sridattadev kancharla replied on Sep. 7, 2017 @ 13:09 GMT
Dear Amrit,

I welcome you to read ISA function describing consciousness.

Cheers

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Amrit Srecko Sorli wrote on Aug. 29, 2017 @ 04:41 GMT
Higgs field is a pure mathematical illusion.

attachments: Mass_-_Energy_Equivalence_versus_Higgs_Mechanism.pdf

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Joe Fisher wrote on Sep. 1, 2017 @ 14:08 GMT
Dear Physicists,

The first mistake y’all made was when you decided that Nature had to have complex secrets, without specifying why. Only humanly contrived conjecture am capable of sustaining complex speculation Nature had to furnish reality for all living beings and all non-living things. Nature’s visible simplicity is utterly extravagant. Every real surface of every real person place and thing am actually existing securely attached to a real visible Natural infinite surface occurring in one infinite dimension that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

Joe Fisher, Realist

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sridattadev kancharla wrote on Sep. 7, 2017 @ 13:05 GMT
Dear Ivette,

Please see the ISA function and its implications on our understanding or reality,

ISA function describes Riemann sphere and is the true analytic continuation of Riemann zeta function

ISA(S) = Sign(Re(s)) * Sign(Im(s)) * Cos(Re(s) * Pi) * e Power (Im(s) * i * Pi)

​ISA(1+1/2i) = Sign(Re(1+1/2i)) * Sign(Im(1+1/2i)) * Cos(Re(1+1/2i) * Pi) * e Power(Im(1+1/2i)...

view entire post


attachments: 2_ISA.jpg

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Joe Fisher replied on Sep. 7, 2017 @ 14:23 GMT
Dear Sridattadev,

Please be informed that it am physically impossible for any real person to “understand” reality. You see Nature devised the simplest visible physical construct of reality obtainable. Nature’s visible simplicity am universally understood. Every real surface of every real person place and thing am actually existing securely attached to a real visible Natural unified infinite surface occurring in one infinite dimension that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

The only thing you have produced with your comment am a complex finite piece of codswallop abstract unrealistic information.

Joe Fisher, Realist

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Julian Barrera Esquinas wrote on Oct. 30, 2017 @ 14:16 GMT
This comment is based in personal intuition and wide readings.

As you say, "in quantum mechanics, by contrast, an observer takes an active part in what happens. The mere act of choosing when and how to make a measurement can irrevocably change the properties of the underlying system being measured. "So you can’t separate the observer from the physical system that’s being observed,".

For me:

"The (Human) observer" intervention is not merely to choose the setting of the experiment. The human observer behind the experiment is made of the very same nature of the things to be measured (energy) and on top he/she constantly (meanwhile alive) emits energy that somehow will interfere with the system under measurement.

This emitted energy is quite difficult to harness as is based in the intention/(expectations on the result) of the person and his/her emotional state.

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amrit wrote on Nov. 1, 2017 @ 17:50 GMT
We say in physics that at the speed of light time stops. But we know that light needs 8 minutes to come to the Earth from the Sun. How to solve this puzzle?

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Georgina Woodward wrote on Nov. 1, 2017 @ 20:27 GMT
It is necessary to separate what an observer fabricates from received signals into his/her/its experience or sensory product from what is happening unobserved. If a signal is propagating at the speed of light and an observer is travelling at the speed of light, the observer is keeping pace with the same part of the signal and is unable to obtain fresh stimuli to update the product. If the signal is a time signal such as light emitted from a clock, the time will not be seen to change. However the signal and the observer are still moving so there is still change happening. There is still foundational passage of time.

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Georgina Woodward wrote on Nov. 2, 2017 @ 05:23 GMT
Maybe I should mention that the present 'sensory product' is not fabricated from a single signal from a singular origin but a heterogeneous mixture of signals of a variety of spatial and (so also'temporal') origins. Travelling through the data pool at the speed of light, new (to that observer) potential sensory data will be intercepted updating the present even if keeping pace with a signal from which time was being 'read'.

Addressing the post; amrit wrote on Nov. 1, 2017 @ 17:50 GMT, The eight minutes of travel time of the light from the Sun to Earth is foundational passage of time, not the relative experience of the light. The light does not receive and process sensory information and so can not be an observer having a relative experience of sensory product generation.

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Anonymous wrote on Nov. 5, 2017 @ 17:18 GMT
QUANTUMINSERT is just one of numerous new surveillance and exploitation applications that proliferate by state and non-state activity on the www. What are called 'commercial network insert appliances' by researchers, are capable of snaring any personal computer's OS which simply browses an infected site. That computer will then begin 'talking' with the server managing the insert appliance. This means, that when you are browsing the comments posted in any forum and there are obvious violations of appropriate usage standards, such as one particular user name making multiple postings of the same thing to a number of different threads, or comments that contain irrelevant content with links or curious wordgroups that might provoke you to search, there is a potential for malware insertion into your personal files. Another indicator of malicious activity is the common use of doubling words which trigger zero-day phishing bots, and these often are deployed as part of a user name. Best Practices should guide you in avoiding responding to such pitfalls by simply not clicking on any expansion or reply button.

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