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Christian Corda: on 4/6/17 at 9:27am UTC, wrote Dear Tejinder, Thanks for your kind comments. We are happy and honored...

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FQXi FORUM
May 30, 2017

CATEGORY: Wandering Towards a Goal Essay Contest (2016-2017) [back]
TOPIC: Interferometric detection of gravitational waves: how can a wild roam through mindless mathematical laws really be a trek towards the goal of unification? by Christian Corda, Reza Katebi, and Nathan O. Schmidt [refresh]
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Author Christian Corda wrote on Mar. 6, 2017 @ 16:52 GMT
Essay Abstract

The event GW150914 was the first historical detection of gravitational waves (GWs). The emergence of this ground-breaking discovery came not only from incredibly innovative experimental work, but also from a centennial of theoretical analyses. Many such analyses were performed by pioneering scientists who had wandered through a wild territory of mathematical laws. We explore such wandering and explain how it may impact the grand goal of unification in physics.

Author Bio

C. Corda is Professor of Astrophysics and Theoretical Physics at the Scuola Superiore di Studi Universitari e Ricerca "Santa Rita", Roma, Italy and Contract Professor of Astrophysics at the Research Institute for Astronomy and Astrophysics of Maragha, Iran. R. Katebi and N. O. Schmidt are two students in physics (R. Katebi) and mathematics (N. O. Schmidt) who collaborate with the research group of C.Corda in writing various papers in international peer reviewed journals in the fields of of Astrophysics, Theoretical Physics and Mathematics.

Download Essay PDF File




George Kirakosyan wrote on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 06:29 GMT
Hi dear Christian

It is nice to see you (and co-authors) in the contest. I have read your interesting article and have got there some valuable for me information. Particularly, I have impressed with that dramatic situation of Einstein that was linked with creation of GW. I had felt that it could not be accepted by Einstein so easy because there are one deep (and obvious) logical contradiction between GW and one of basic principle GR. It was very important to me to know that Einstein has some doubt in soul on the existence GW in generally! For this, mainly I am very thankful from your article.

I never hide that I did not trust in the existence of GW and I have continue say this even there was announce on the detection of GW by LIGO group. This let be remain up on their conscience.

I will call your attention only on the next argument; GR was based on the close - action principle, and GW, however, assume the existence of a far - action, let it be explained as a current of gravitons or, as the action trough the field etc. So, GW should be not there, otherwise this valuable – important principle of GR become broken in fact! I think Einstein was so doubtful on GW on this namely. There goes on the more powerful LISA project. I hope it can be realized and there will be finally established …. the absence of GW!

Thus, I can welcome only your article as high valuable for me and evaluate it accordingly.

With best regards

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 10:26 GMT
Hi dear George,

Thanks for your kind words on our Essay.

Differently from your opinion, I am instead sure that GWs really exist and I am curious to see the LISA results.

Good luck in the Contest, I will read, comment and score your Essay asap.

Cheers, Ch.




Member George F. R. Ellis wrote on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 06:35 GMT
Dear authors

this is a nice essay on gravitational wave detection. However I am having difficulty seeing how it relates to the theme set for this competition, namely "How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?"

Can you please enlighten me?

regards

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George Kirakosyan replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 07:59 GMT
Dear professor Ellis,

As I understand your question addressed to me because I am one only here up to now. You are right of course and I can say you sorry, because I have gone on a little bit side to my favorable theme.

Then let me ask you contrary question.

Why you somewhat changed contest question?

There was - "How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?"

And you hawe openly replaced it as - "How can a universe that is ruled by natural laws give rise to aims and intentions?"

Is this same this two questions in your opinion?

And you narrate your nice tractate .... about microbiology!

I hope we are gents and we will not touch each to other, as a continuation.

Regards

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Member George F. R. Ellis replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 08:53 GMT
I replied on my own thread. I addressed three of the subthemes specified in the essay goals.

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 10:43 GMT
Dears Georges (Ellis and Kirakosyan).

Thanks for your kind comments.

In our Essay aims and intention are detection of GWs, realization of a GW astronomy and potential implications on the research of the unification of physics. Concerning the theme set for this competition, this is a very particular case for an important reason. For a long time, the correct identification of aims and intention has been a very controversial issue based on the large debate, characterized by wandering through a wild territory of mathematical laws, which involved various scientists, included the same Einstein. That debate focused about the potential existence-non existence of GWs. Thus, in the current case, a big amount of mindless mathematical laws has been needed, not only in order to give rise to aims and intention, but, in a very long preliminary way (about 40 years), also in order to correctly identify such aims and intention.

Cheers, Ch.




William L Stubbs wrote on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 15:18 GMT
C. Corda, et al.

Congratulations on your work in detecting gravity waves. I am not convinced of their existence yet, but perhaps more research will shift my position. Besides, your case is very compelling to the jury that counts, of which, I am not a member.

You have submitted a very interesting essay, but it does not seem to align with the theme of the contest. What is even more perplexing is that, at the issuance of this post, it is the highest rate essay out of over 150 submitted. I am curious about your motivation for submitting it.

Again, congratulations on your efforts and much success in your future endeavors with regard to them. (Maybe you will even convince me one day.)

Regards,

Bill Stubbs.

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 16:07 GMT
Dear Bill,

Thanks for your comments.

As we previously told in reply to a similar comment by Prof. Ellis, in our analysis aims and intention are detection of GWs, realization of a GW astronomy and potential implications on the research of the unification of physics. Concerning the theme set for this competition, this is a very particular case for an important reason. For a long time, the correct identification of aims and intention has been a very controversial issue based on the large debate, characterized by wandering through a wild territory of mathematical laws, which involved various scientists, included the same Einstein. That debate focused about the potential existence-non existence of GWs. Thus, in the current case, a big amount of mindless mathematical laws has been needed, not only in order to give rise to aims and intention, but, in a very long preliminary way (about 40 years), also in order to correctly identify such aims and intention.

In addition, I would like to stress a remarkable observation of Jack Hamilton James. He argues that our Essay is a unique and opposite way into the essay contest. In fact, the other Essays start with the external world and try to show how it produces intention. In our Essay we point out to start with maths and try and work it to fit the external world. In all honesty, I do not know if our case is very compelling to the FQXi jury. We will see this in the future.

In any case, our Essay is no more the highest rate essay out of over 150 submitted. It seems that some troll gave us a "1" in order to decrease our score. Finally, I do not understand why the issue that our Essay was the highest rate essay out of over 150 submitted should make you perplexed.

In any case, I will read, comment and score your Essay in next days. Good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 15:30 GMT
Corda, Katebi, and Schmidt,

This is a pretty good essay. The detection of gravitational radiation does potentially lead to some deeper results. The BMS symmetry, or the subsymmetry of abelian translations, can leads to understanding the physics of soft gravitons.

Cheers LC

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 16:12 GMT
Hi LC,

It is a pleasure re-meeting you here in FQXi Contest. Thanks for your congrats, it will be my pleasure to read, comment and score your Essay soon.

Cheers, Ch.



Lawrence B. Crowell replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 22:25 GMT
Dang! I gave you a decent score this morning and now you have dropped terribly. I was early on near the top and fell to 5.6 and then climbed up.

We were kicking around a year and a half ago an idea with solitons and tunneling states with rotating black holes. I came up with a bit of something recently that might feed life into that. The idea was that the Kerr frame dragging around a black hole was quantum mechanically analogous to the Josephson junction. I have found this connects with S-duality.

It looks as if you affiliation has changed. It looks a little more solid than what you had. I too need to get myself better situated.

Cheers LC

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 9, 2017 @ 10:46 GMT
Hi LC,

Thanks for your decent score. As usual there are some trolls giving a "1" for decreasing the total score of the Essays. This is not a new in the FQXi Essay Contest...

Send me via private email your new insights on solitons and tunneling states with rotating black holes. We will discuss the situation and we attempt to write a new research paper.

Cheers, Ch.




James Arnold wrote on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 16:07 GMT
Although I too am perplexed about the relevance, I'm happy to pose a question about the theoretical basis of radiant (as opposed to geometric) gravitational waves.

It seems to me that there are two incompatible theories of gravitation, the quantum theory having been introduced without bothering to refute Einstein's earlier geometric theory.

If gravitation is due to the warping of spacetime geometry, it's easy to imagine an imbalanced binary radiating ripples of warping intensity, and if kinetic/potential energy is being lost to the system, then it is being gained by the universe at large... but the theoretical introduction of radiation by analogy with electromagnetism is an added complication that as far as I know has never been justified, except possibly to bring gravitation into the department of quantum physics.

You can see my argument at http://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/article/view/1692 if you like.

Jim

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 9, 2017 @ 10:42 GMT
Hi Jim,

Thanks for your comment.

Concerning your being perplexed about the relevance of our Essay you can read the below comment of my co-author Nathan O. Schmidt. I will bring back to you soon concerning your question about the theoretical basis of radiant (as opposed to geometric) gravitational waves.

Cheers, Ch.




Author Christian Corda wrote on Mar. 9, 2017 @ 10:37 GMT
COMMENT OF THE AUTHOR NATHAN O. SCHMIDT

Hello all!

Thanks for your comments and discussions. For those of you who may be confused about the relevance of this essay, I will attempt an additional clarification.

Numerous scientists (ex. Einstein, Rosen, and others, etc.) were aimed at the goal of establishing a unified field theory of physics; they spent decades trying to...

view entire post





Cristinel Stoica wrote on Mar. 9, 2017 @ 10:52 GMT
Dear Christian, Reza, and Nathan,

I enjoyed reading your well-written and instructive essay about gravitational waves and the foundational role of general relativity for the entire physics and other fields. We know from Galilei and Einstein that the fundamental laws of physics are the same everywhere, at any scale, and for any observer. The role of the observer is paramount both in relativity and quantum mechanics, being immersed in a world which in its turn affects, and as Wheeler says, the universe is participatory. This can be seen in many modern approaches to inflationary cosmology, quantum mechanics, and the problem of why these particular fundamental laws and constants are at the basis of our universe. It appears miraculous how mindless laws gave rise to intelligences who were able to predict and measure the gravitational waves, or, if I don't exaggerate too much by saying this, to detect the EEG of these brainwaves of the brain of the God of Einstein and Spinoza, or, as Einstein put it, to know His thoughts. Good luck with the contest!

Best regards,

Cristi

The Tablet of the Metalaw

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 10, 2017 @ 08:30 GMT
Dear Cristi,

We are very honored by your kind words on our Essay, thanks a lot. Wheeler's statement that "the universe is participatory" is wonderful. Maybe the nascent GW astronomy could help in "knowing God's thoughts".

We well read, comment and score you Essay soon.

Thanks again and good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Mar. 11, 2017 @ 02:36 GMT
Thanks for the good word on my essay over at my site. Sorry to see that your essay seems to have dropped a lot. I have you a high score the other day. I think it was a 9, with 1 deducted for seeming a bit off from the central point of the essay prompt. I wrote the following in response to your statement about unitarity and equivalence principle.

My sense is that the equivalence principle and the unitarity principle are versions of the same thing. Because of this they do not generally hold completely for general experimental conditions. It is really similar to the duality between reality and locality in Bell's theorem. You can have one, but not the other. The same I think happens here in that if you can measure all quantum states in a nondestructive way (weak measurements, etc) you then have some small deformation of the equivalence principle. On the other hand if you measures the EP to complete accuracy this is traded off by some inability to account for quantum states in a unitary manner.

Cheers LC

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 11, 2017 @ 08:35 GMT
Hi LC,

If you are correct on the duality between the equivalence principle and the unitarity principle this is a very intriguing issue.

Concerning the point that our Essay seems a bit off from the central point of the essay prompt, give a look to the above comment of my co-author Nathan O. Schmidt.

Our essay has dropped a lot because, as usual, in the Contest there are some trolls which give "1" in order to drop Essays having a score higher than their proper ones.

Cheers, Ch.



Lawrence B. Crowell replied on Mar. 11, 2017 @ 13:53 GMT
I got bombed with a 2 yesterday. I will say the essays near the top are pretty good, with one notable exception IMO.

I am not that wedded to any particular thoery or paradigm. I tend to wear different hats at various times. By doing that I am freer to think about things. The one person who most often restricts a person's freedom is themselves.

In physics the so called fine tuning...

view entire post


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Joe Fisher wrote on Mar. 11, 2017 @ 16:52 GMT
Dear Professor Christian Corda,

Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.

I merely wish to point out that “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.

Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.

The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and perhaps comment on its merit.

Joe Fisher, Realist

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Wilhelmus de Wilde wrote on Mar. 12, 2017 @ 16:34 GMT
Dear Christian,

Thanks a lot for your comment on my essay.

I have read with great interest the work of yourself and the co-authors.

The gravitational waves trembled through the text.

The goal of any wave is insecure, it goes on and on.

You also deserve a high rating.

best regards

Wilhelmus

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 08:18 GMT
Dear Wilhelmus,

Thanks for your kind words and for thinking that we deserve a high rating. Your sentence "The gravitational waves trembled through the text" is marvelous.

Thanks again and good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Edwin Eugene Klingman wrote on Mar. 12, 2017 @ 20:09 GMT
Dear Christian Corda,

When I first read your essay, I too thought that you had missed the point of the essay. But after reading your comments I now understand that you simply placed another interpretation on the question and you actually answered extremely well from that perspective. After all, the mindless math did make predictions for over a century, and gave rise to considerable aims and intentions necessary to evaluate the model.

I think it's also relevant to focus as you do on development of the 'mindless math', with logical mistakes made along the way and consequent changes in predictions and interpretations.

So congratulations on finding a unique but relevant perspective and handling it well!

My best regards,

Edwin Eugene Klingman

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Author Christian Corda wrote on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 08:22 GMT
Dear Edwin,

Thanks for your comments. We are happy that you understands our interpretation of the question of the Contest and that you like the way we answered from that perspective. We are honored by your congrats.

Thanks again, we wish you good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Steve Dufourny wrote on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 11:36 GMT
Hi to you 3,

Mr Corda,

I am happy to see your participation to this contest.Hope you are well.

Congratulations for your relevant papper.

All the best from Belgium

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 13:32 GMT
Hi Steve,

Nice to re-meet you in FQXi Essay Contest. Thanks for your comments, I am fine. I hope you are well too. We will read, comment and score your Essay soon. Good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.



Steve Dufourny replied on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 18:41 GMT
You are welcome.I am fine thanks.For the essay,unfortunately I have not made this contest.

All the best

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 15, 2017 @ 08:55 GMT
Sorry Steve. Then, I hope to re-meet you in next Essay Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 14:21 GMT
Nice essay Prof Corda,

Congratulations on detection of Gravitational Waves. In Novae and supernovae explosions there will be gravitational disturbances and a possibility of GW generation.

………………………… At this point I want you to ask you to please have a look at my essay, where ……………reproduction of Galaxies in the Universe is described. Dynamic...

view entire post


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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 14, 2017 @ 10:10 GMT
Dear Satyavarapu,

Thanks for your comment with kinds congratulations. I am happy to know that you think that our Essay is nice.

We will read, comment and score your Essay on Dynamic Universe Model soon. Good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.



Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on Mar. 15, 2017 @ 11:04 GMT
Thank you Very much Corda,

For your kindness and support.

Best Regards

=snp.gupta

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 09:47 GMT
Dear Satyavarapu,

My pleasure.

Cheers, Ch.




Jonathan J. Dickau wrote on Mar. 14, 2017 @ 18:15 GMT
There is a lot to like about this paper..

I had heard the story about Einstein's vacillation, and his ire at the rejection of his GW paper with Rosen - at a GR21 plenary lecture - but this is a great intro for those who did not have that privilege. There is indeed a lot we can learn about or test in theories of gravity, by studying gravitational waves. I too am an advocate that we need to...

view entire post


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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 15, 2017 @ 09:06 GMT
Hi dear Jonathan,

Thanks for your valuable comments.

On one hand, I agree with your point of view that that strict general relativists try to carry things a bit too far and maybe we need some modification to make gravity work as we see it in nature. On the other hand, solar system tests are extremely precise. Thus, it seems that such a modification of general relativity should be very weak, see this technical paper of mine. Thanks for signaling the recent papers talking about an echo in BH merger GWs, I will read them soon.

Concerning your and Ellis' criticism on the issue that the subject matter is somewhat off topic, I still emphasize the remarkable observation of Jack Hamilton James. He argues that our Essay is a unique and opposite way into the essay contest. In fact, the other Essays start with the external world and try to show how it produces intention. In our Essay we point out to start with maths and try and work it to fit the external world.

Cheers, Ch.




Don Limuti wrote on Mar. 15, 2017 @ 20:48 GMT
Hi Christian,

1. You essay is on topic. If I may summarize: Mathematics + a lot of hard work = reality

2. The essay was a fascinating read about the current events and history of gravity waves. And I did not needed aspirin and a nap after reading it! It is not as short as my essay, but that is OK.

3. I will vote for your essay as many times as it takes to defeat the trolls :)

4. I stumbled onto a way calculate the precession of Mercury without using GR. Created two papers that were recently published. I did not believe I could make this calculation, and not completely clober GR. Yes, very strange. Would you take a look ....I think it may generate some ideas. I will e-mail to you.

Thanks for being in the contest.

Don Limuti

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 16, 2017 @ 11:46 GMT
Hi Don,

Thanks for your message with kind words. We are honored by your judgment on our Essay. Concerning the way to calculate the precession of Mercury without using GR, I know that there is some way which involves the equivalence principle. In that case, combining the equivalence principle with the precision of solar system tests, the strong implication is that the correct theory of gravity must be GR or some weak modification of GR, independently by the precession of Mercury. In any case, I will reply you by email.

Cheers,

Ch.




James Lee Hoover wrote on Mar. 19, 2017 @ 19:42 GMT
Christian, Reza and Nathan,

I checked out your essay and noted your response to questions about GR connections to the contest theme. I have been following the desire to go beyond observation of the BB with light using GR, and it now seems possible to do this with more resonance with LIGO upgrades and more than 2 stations. Such an achievement certainly connects our parochial world with the ultimate beginning. Perhaps you should have emphasized the ultimate BB potential more.

Hope you get a chance to check out my approach.

Regards,

Jim Hoover

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 20, 2017 @ 09:55 GMT
Hi Jim,

Thanks for your interesting comments. Concerning the possibility to observing the BB through GWs with LIGO upgrades and more than 2 stations, give a look to this paper of mine.

Thanks again, I will read, comment and score your Essay soon.

Cheers, Ch.



Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 20, 2017 @ 09:57 GMT
Sorry Jim, wrong link. This should work



Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 20, 2017 @ 09:58 GMT
There is something wrong in the link help page today. In any case, here is the paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/1110.1772




Peter Jackson wrote on Mar. 20, 2017 @ 17:31 GMT
Christian, et al,

I found your essay clear, well written and nice to read and interesting too. I knew Einstein had changed his mind on GW's (and many things) but not quite how much! OK the links with the topic were a touch homeopathic, but frankly I blame the topic, pregnant with quintupletaly poor assumptions and able to link to anything in physics!

On GW's. I agree they exist and...

view entire post


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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 09:28 GMT
Dear Peter,

Thanks for your kind words and for appreciating our Essay.

Concerning your proposal to detect GWs, the key point is that the effect of a propagating GW on a fluid is should be very weak. Thus, how can one extract the 'flow' corresponding to the motions from the various noises which are, in principle, present? I cannot see your sets of 'tidal prediction' tables because the link that you inserted does not work. Can you kindly re-insert it?

Thanks again and good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.

P.S.

As usual, lots of us are having the problem of trolls who give various 1's...



Peter Jackson replied on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 21:18 GMT
Hi Chris

The link is here;

Tidal Prediction Tables My point is that do the weakness of the effect we need a massive body of water. We happen to have natural bodies of water that big (I have one outside my Kent office), AND a handy moon to pass across it in a 13hr cycle (on top of the Suns 24hr cycle, a lower magnitude effect, but the same 'change in position' wrt any point on earth is then due to our rotation). The only problem we then have is that it's all so big and familiar that nobody has NOTICED what it is!! It just needs re-thinking about afresh.

The induced motion is 'UP and DOWN' as well as a flow' 'background effects' are all easy to calculate and allowed for (as far as Mars anyway) in the prediction tables. We just need to record and adjust for relative interface medium vector and density (air pressure) each time. (We call that 'wind' in the trade!).

I keep a set of the prediction tables on my yacht as they're essential for racing. Height is the more direct and useful scalar as the Lagrangian flows are slower where water depth is less due to drag. I can report that the height predictions are very precise.

Do you now see my point? I'm suggesting there's NO fundamental difference in the 'wave' effect from a distant large mass in motion than from nearby small ones!

The tables also account for epigee etc so can be a useful scientific tool.

Very best.

Peter

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 31, 2017 @ 07:29 GMT
Sorry Peter, but still the link on the Tidal Prediction Tables does not work. Can you send me them privately via e-mail at the address cordac.galilei@gmail.com?

Thanks and regards, Ch.




Anonymous wrote on Mar. 20, 2017 @ 20:09 GMT
Dear Christian, et al,

I have read with a great interest your essay which certainly deserves an appreciation and first of all for its ontological orientation.

I did not doubt the experimental proof of the wave nature of gravitation, since it confirms my theoretical researches and conclusions concerning the mechanism of interactions. I consider all interactions (including gravitational) as wave reaction to the disturbance of material system caused by change of energy.

I wish you further creative successes.

Vladimir Rodin

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 09:33 GMT
Dear Vladimir,

Thanks for your appreciation of our Essay.

Your idea to consider interactions as wave reaction to the disturbance of material system caused by change of energy is interesting, but I think that it could work for the propagation of the interactions. When one analyzes the sources of the interaction, I think that one needs to go beyond the linear approximation.

Thanks again and good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Vladimir F. Tamari wrote on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 08:12 GMT
Dear Christian and fellow authors,

Thank you for reading (and bemoaning) my assault on Einstein's physics which I defended on my page. Somebody (could be me) said Einstein was right although he arrived at his results in the wrong way. Anyway your essay is very well written and interesting which made a pleasant reading.

Permit me to use the assumptions of my Beautiful Universe Model (BU), which is a sort of Cellular Automata description of physics, to speculate about gravitational waves.

From my diffraction research I have concluded that gravity is akin to the distortion of the dielectric ether around matter - creating a density field that has a gradient index of refraction that - for example- bends light - an idea that also goes back to Thomas Young then Eddington . From there it is an easy step to say that de Broglie-like wave fields surrounding matter are associated with gravitational fields, and that when disturbed by motion this field generates waves.

So you see that once one is free from the fetters of spacetime formulations physics seems lighter and freer to proceed to new horizons!

Before dismissing CA theories please consider Gerard 't Hooft's new book showing Quantum Mechanics can emerge from CA. Can relativity be far behind?

Cheers

Vladimir

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 09:42 GMT
Dear Vladimir,

Thanks for your kind comments.

I do not see your vision of gravitation so different with respect to Einstein's vision. Replacing "dielectric ether" with "space-time" one finds an analogy.

In addition, I do not want to dismiss CA theories. Gerard 't Hooft's approach is an attempt to insert determinism in quantum mechanics, and I agree with him.

Thanks again and good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.



Vladimir F. Tamari replied on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 01:46 GMT
Dear Christian

Mathematical ingenuity can establish equivalence between different physical assumptions - so yes a density field can be equated in its effects to that of a field of flexible space-time. My big concern is that some scenarios are nearer to how Nature actually works. What would an alien visitor to Earth choose - a fancy complicated scheme involving the changing of the very substance of the Universe -space and time - locally requiring complicated tensors to describe and depending on nearby masses, or a simple linear density field leaving space, time, and most importantly, observers, out of the picture? Many are aware that Einstein's theories, however they facilitate calculations, lead to a false image of the fundamental workings of Nature, and hence act to block further progress such as Unification of GR with QM.

Cheers

Vladimir

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Thomas Howard Ray wrote on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 00:21 GMT
Christian, et al,

It's a great time to be a relativist, isn't it? :-)

You've written a marvelous essay, expertly exposing the importance of LIGO, and the challenges ahead, deserving my highest mark.

Please allow me to focus on:

“ … if a GW propagates in a region of space-time where two free-falling test masses are present, the GW effect will drive the masses to oscillate.”

In fact, only the phenomenon of oscillation allows us to know that a mass is present.

“Concerning the previously cited possibility of ultimately discriminating between the general theory of relativity and extended theories of gravity, only a perfect knowledge of the motion of the test masses, which are the beam-splitter and the mirrors of the interferometer, will permit one to determine if the general theory of relativity is the definitive theory of gravity.”

General relativity was never intended to be the definitive theory of gravity. It was, as you imply, an intermediate step on the way to a unified field theory. If the test particles are falling in a positively curved trajectory (the geodesic of a positive curvature), they will interact. If in a negative trajectory, they won’t. What could one possibly mean, however, by a ‘negative trajectory'? Einstein said he thought of a quantum “… as a singularity, surrounded by a large vector field. With a large number of quanta a vector field can be composed that differs little from the one we presume for radiation.”

What better candidate for the mother of all fields than the neutrino field? What better source of consciousness than spacetime itself, compelling us to remember a trajectory we can never return to, and which perhaps never existed? I hope you get a chance to read my essay.

All best,

Tom

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 11:41 GMT
Hi Tom,

I am happy to re-meet you here in FQXi.

We are honored that you think our Essay being marvelous, thanks a lot!

Yes, it is indeed a great time to be a relativist. Neutrino field as the fundamental field is intriguing but a bit speculative.

Thanks also for the other interesting comments, we will read, comment and score your Essay soon. Good luck in the Contest!

Cheers, Ch.




Héctor Daniel Gianni wrote on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 23:02 GMT
Dear Christian

I invite you and every physicist to read my work “TIME ORIGIN,DEFINITION AND EMPIRICAL MEANING FOR PHYSICISTS, Héctor Daniel Gianni ,I’m not a physicist.

How people interested in “Time” could feel about related things to the subject.

1) Intellectuals interested in Time issues usually have a nice and creative wander for the unknown.

2) They usually enjoy this wander of their searches around it.

3) For millenniums this wander has been shared by a lot of creative people around the world.

4) What if suddenly, something considered quasi impossible to be found or discovered such as “Time” definition and experimental meaning confronts them?

5) Their reaction would be like, something unbelievable,… a kind of disappointment, probably interpreted as a loss of wander…..

6) ….worst than that, if we say that what was found or discovered wasn’t a viable theory, but a proved fact.

7) Then it would become offensive to be part of the millenary problem solution, instead of being a reason for happiness and satisfaction.

8) The reader approach to the news would be paradoxically adverse.

9) Instead, I think it should be a nice welcome to discovery, to be received with opened arms and considered to be read with full attention.

11)Time “existence” is exclusive as a “measuring system”, its physical existence can’t be proved by science, as the “time system” is. Experimentally “time” is “movement”, we can prove that, showing that with clocks we measure “constant and uniform” movement and not “the so called Time”.

12)The original “time manuscript” has 23 pages, my manuscript in this contest has only 9 pages.

I share this brief with people interested in “time” and with physicists who have been in sore need of this issue for the last 50 or 60 years.

Héctor

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Eckard Blumschein wrote on Mar. 23, 2017 @ 08:00 GMT
Dear Christian Corda,

To Vladimir Tamari you wrote: "You realized my worst scientific nightmare! I DO NOT WANT TO LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE EINSTEIN'S THEORIES DO NOT WORK!!!!!!!"

This sounds too emotional to me. I would rather hope for a distinction between correct or at least useful theories on the other hand and untenable or even misleading ones on the other hand. In my essay, I dealt with evolution and used a rational criterion: non-arbitrariness. My results are definitely unwelcome not just to you. Feel challenged.

Sincerely

Eckard

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Avtar Singh wrote on Mar. 23, 2017 @ 15:27 GMT
Dear Christian Corda:

I enjoyed reading your paper. You present an eloquent approach to achieve unification based on GWs. I would like your views on my contest paper on achieving unification -- FROM LAWS TO AIMS & INTENTIONS - A UNIVERSAL MODEL INTEGRATING MATTER, MIND, CONSCIOUSNESS, AND PURPOSE-A. Singh elaborated below. The paper tests and vindicates the hypothesis of the spontaneous...

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Author Christian Corda wrote on Mar. 24, 2017 @ 09:17 GMT
Dear Avtar,

Thanks for your kind comments. We are happy that you enjoyed reading our Essay. We will read, comment and score your Essay soon. Good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Colin Walker wrote on Mar. 25, 2017 @ 18:18 GMT
Dear Christian, Reza and Nathan

I read your essay with great interest. A space-borne experiment called LATOR (Laser Astrometric Test Of Relativity) was proposed more than a decade ago. The experiment would use the International Space Station as a base for interferometry. The solar panels on the ISS point towards the Sun with a high degree of accuracy. A pair of satellites orbiting the Sun would reflect laser light back to the ISS, allowing gravitational parameters to be deduced from changes in path length.

A variation on this experiment would put the base at a Lagrange point, but even the ISS orbiting Earth is supposed to provide sufficient accuracy to discriminate second-order terms in the various gravitational models. For example, take the dimensionless quantity GM/Rc^2 for the Sun to be about 10^-6, one part in a million, which corresponds to the first-order term in power series expansions. The second-order term is on the order 10^-12. It is only at this level of accuracy that new information about gravitation can be acquired.

Given the success of LIGO, it seems strange that LATOR has not been supported. The only objection that has come to my attention is the possibility that helium gas could refract the laser beam.

Do you know if LATOR, or some variation, is being considered for a second-order test of general relativity?

Best regards,

Colin

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 27, 2017 @ 11:17 GMT
Dear Colin,

Thanks for your interesting comments. We are happy to know that your have read our essay with great interest.

Concerning LATOR, I was informed on the existence of this experiment some years ago, but I must confess that I did not deepened about it. Thus, I cannot tell you if LATOR, or some variation, is being considered for a second-order test of general relativity, which should be of enormous interest. Yes, I agree that it is strange that LATOR has not been supported and not only based on the success of LIGO. In any case, I will take infos on this issue soon.

Good luck in the Contest, we will read, comment and score your Essay in next days.

Cheers, Ch.




Vladimir Nikolaevich Fedorov wrote on Mar. 25, 2017 @ 21:02 GMT
Dear Christian,

Many thanks for the kind words about my "provocative" essay .

I pleasure read your essay, gave him high mark, and understood why many people have questions to him.

But I'm not embarrassed «confused about the relevance of this essay».

This dispute about gravity and gravitational waves has the deep roots of the dispute between Descartes and Newton and the dispute is still not resolved.

"Today it is hard to believe, but contemporaries accused Newton that his theory "returns science in the Middle Ages" Thomas S. Kuhn The Structure of Scientific Revolutions. (1970) . If the bodies are attracted one toonher, then they should spend energy, but from the theory it is not visible, where does the energy come from and how does it replenish? ... There was no (and is no now) a cycle of energy in the theory, and this happened after Descartes, After Descartes introduced the principle of conservation of momentum, which natural science took literally as a life-giving sip of water." L.E. Fedulayev (2009).

The dispute that you raised about the gravitational waves will allow adequately answer the questions of this contest. The theory of gravitational waves is the key theory of self-organization of matter, therefore we observe gravitational attraction as a mechanism for its realization, which is still to be understood in detail.

I wish you success in the contest.

Kind regards,

Vladimir

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 27, 2017 @ 12:16 GMT
Dear Vladimir,

Thanks for your kind message. We are happy that you pleasured reading our essay, and we are honored that you gave it a high mark. Thanks a lot. We are also happy to know that you thinks that the dispute that we raised about the gravitational waves will allow adequately answer the questions of this contest. This is a key point. Claiming that Newton's theory "returns science in the Middle Ages" is very wrong. Without Newton we should not have had Einstein! Thanks again and good luck in the Contest!

Cheers, Ch.




Michael Alexeevich Popov wrote on Mar. 26, 2017 @ 11:25 GMT
Dear Authors,

Please, some refinements and judgment:

Both Poincare and Einstein's Relativity theories are based on Kantian heuristics and Poincare's " Lorentz invariant". However, only Poincare's gravity theory discovered a whole family of consistent theories which cannot be geometrized in a Riemann manifold... Hence, Poincare's relativistic gravity was not able to predict an existence of gravitational waves.

In historical Kantian context, Poincare 's Relativity is connected with Eddington's Kantianism of a priori constants and later Matvey Bronstein's brilliant physics( author of the first dissertation on quantum gravity and detection of gravitational waves, Leningrad University, Russia, 1934-5 )... Matvey showed that the next step from gravitational waves to quantum gravity of some future unified physics is needed real Post - Kantian Revolution in Space - and - Time geometric algebra ( Eddington developed prototype in the form of so- called " E - Algebra ").

However, as I showed in my essay recently ( " Kantian Answers "), popular analytical attitude against Kantian transcendental aesthetics represents main difficulties for Physics Unification.

Best

Michael

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 27, 2017 @ 12:34 GMT
Dear Michael,

Thanks for your comments. I am not expert on the historical Kantian context, but, from the physical point of view, Poincare's gravity theory and the whole family of consistent theories which cannot be geometrized in a Riemann manifold are ultimately ruled out by the Equivalence Principle, which is today tested with a precision of order 10^-13. The same authors of this Essay, i.e. myself, Nathan and Reza, ultimately clarified this issue - which is also stressed in various works of Weinberg, Will and other famous scientists - in this paper.

Thanks for signaling the work of Matvey Bronstein, I were not aware of it. Instead, I were aware of the remarkable work of the Soviet physicists Mikhail Gertsenshtein and Vladislav Pustovoit in 1962, who were the first to propose LIGO’s approach, using laser interferometry, to detect GWs.

We wish you good luck in the Contest, we will read, comment and score your Essay soon.

Cheers, Ch.




Bayarsaikhan Bayarsaikhan Choisuren wrote on Mar. 28, 2017 @ 00:21 GMT
Dear Dr. Christian Corda and others,

I have read your scientific essay and there are scientific seriously innovative ideas written.

I so appreciate your research works on the ground-breaking detection of GW150914 by LIGO.

Gravitational waves carry completely different information about phenomena in the universe.

Gravitational waves generated from distant sources throughout the universe are as a disturbance, or ripple effect, as the generated water waves, which were first anticipated by Albert Einstein a century ago.

But, I think that this imagination about gravitational waves maybe little bit different from the reality of nature.

The speed of gravitational waves in the general theory of relativity is equal to the speed of light in vacuum. (but, I think that it might be instantaneous action at a distance)

As you said, in order to develop the interferometric GW detectors using the seismic noise, the general theory of relativity must be extended for an ultimately clarify of gravitational interaction.

If someone consider whether the foundation of the nature is a physical vacuum medium or an elementary particle, it must be defined more definitely, as close as possible to the reality of nature.

Of course, it is a big question.

“Law of gravity is valid only near the surfaces of celestial bodies of the solar system”, but, it is impossible to be definable at plank scale and around supermassive black holes in the center of many galaxies, unless an exact mechanism of gravitational interaction is discovered.

Thank you so much, again

Cheers for success in your research achievements.

With Best Regards,

Ch.Bayarsaikhan

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Author Christian Corda wrote on Mar. 29, 2017 @ 08:24 GMT
Dear Ch.Bayarsaikhan,

Thanks for you interesting in our Essay. We are happy and honored that you appreciate our research work.

Concerning your interesting comments, maybe that GWs maybe little bit different from the reality of nature. Let us hope in consolidating the GW astronomy which started with the LIGO detections in order to have more infos. We agree that considering whether the foundation of the nature is a physical vacuum medium or an elementary particle is a very important issue. We also think that discovering an exact mechanism of gravitational interaction if fundamental also concerning the big hope to unify physics laws.

Thanks again, we wish you good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Robert Groess wrote on Mar. 30, 2017 @ 04:07 GMT
Dear Christian Corda, et al.,

Thank you for your essay. As an astrophysicist working on cosmology initiatives I find this essay fascinating and interesting. I am not entirely sure how it relates to the core question at hand though? Perhaps I have missed a key point and may need to have another look. In any event I wanted to wish you well in the contest and let you know that topic notwithstanding how much I have enjoyed your essay.

Regards,

Robert

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Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 31, 2017 @ 07:25 GMT
Dear Robert,

Thanks for your comments. We are happy to know that you find our Essay fascinating and interesting. Concerning the issue of how it relates to the core question at hand though, I past below a complete clarification by my co-author Nathan Schmidt. We will read, comment and score your Essay soon. Good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.

COMMENT OF THE AUTHOR NATHAN O....

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Robert Groess replied on Mar. 31, 2017 @ 16:46 GMT
Dear Authors,

Thank you very much for your clarification. I appreciate your interesting and creative interpretation of the question posed by this essay contest. As mentioned before, I enjoyed the work you have done in your essay on GW150914 and see the example you give of how the "mindless" Einstein Field Equations lead people to construct LIGO to perform an experimental verification. (Without the EFE, there would be no LIGO.)

Thank you also for commenting on my essay on my forum and I really appreciate the time you have taken to read and rate it.

Regards,

Robert

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Anonymous wrote on Apr. 2, 2017 @ 06:49 GMT
Dear Christian Corda, Reza Katebi, and Nathan O. Schmidtl

If you believed in the principle of identity of space and matter of Descartes, then your essay would be even better. There is not movable a geometric space, and is movable physical space. These are different concepts.

I inform all the participants that use the online translator, therefore, my essay is written badly. I participate in the contest to familiarize English-speaking scientists with New Cartesian Physic, the basis of which the principle of identity of space and matter. Combining space and matter into a single essence, the New Cartesian Physic is able to integrate modern physics into a single theory. Let FQXi will be the starting point of this Association.

Don't let the New Cartesian Physic disappear! Do not ask for himself, but for Descartes.

New Cartesian Physic has great potential in understanding the world. To show potential in this essay I risked give "The way of the materialist explanation of the paranormal and the supernatural" - Is the name of my essay.

Visit my essay and you will find something in it about New Cartesian Physic. After you give a post in my topic, I shall do the same in your theme

Sincerely,

Dizhechko Boris

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Author Christian Corda replied on Apr. 2, 2017 @ 09:14 GMT
Dear Boris,

Sorry, but I cannot find your Essay. Please, can you kindly give us a link?

Cheers, Ch.



Author Christian Corda replied on Apr. 3, 2017 @ 08:52 GMT
Dear Dizhechko Boris,

Now, I have found your Essay under your surname, i.e., Semyonovich. We will read, comment and score your Essay soon.

Cheers, Ch.



Dizhechko Boris Semyonovich replied on Apr. 3, 2017 @ 16:13 GMT
Dear Christian Corda!

New Cartesian Physic, which studies the movement of space-matter, gives you the opportunity to visually describe the origin of gravitational waves. She claims that the planets play the role of reference points indicating the rotation around the Sun all circumsolar space. This follows from the fact that the radius of the circular orbit does not depend on the mass of a body revolving in orbit – it can be as in space, is zero. Our Solar system is radiating gravitational wave, it is necessary first to increase its size and then reduce them to the size smaller than the original. This rare phenomenon may occurs at the end of the life of a star. A gravitational wave carries away energy from the dying star to the other place arose another. It is possible that the energy of the gravitational wave is scattered in space and it is possible that it is absorbed from the coincidence of the period of its oscillations with a period of space in orbit.

I wish you success in seeing not only gravitational waves, but in movement spaces.

Dizhechko Boris

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Vladimir Rogozhin wrote on Apr. 2, 2017 @ 16:25 GMT
Dear Christian, Reza, and Nathan,

You have presented one professional work where however the non-specialists also can comprehend for himself the whole importance of the ongoing events in the advanced edge of theoretical and experimental physics. I believe that we will be able to overcome the crisis of understanding in fundamental science through the creation of a new comprehensive picture of the world, uniform for physicists, mathematicians, poets and musicians filled with meanings of the "LifeWorld" (E.Husserl). I see your work as very important to overcome the crisis of understanding, the creation of the ontological basis of knowledge. I invite you to read my ideas of the ontological unification of matter (absolute forms of existence), including the ontological (absolute) wave, integrating all the waves of the Universum as holistic process of generation of structures.

Best regards,

Vladimir

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Author Christian Corda replied on Apr. 3, 2017 @ 08:55 GMT
Dear Vladimir,

Thanks for your comments with kind words. We are happy and honored that you have found our Essay as very important to overcome the crisis of understanding, the creation of the ontological basis of knowledge. Thanks a lot. We will read, comment and score your Essay soon. Good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Member Tejinder Pal Singh wrote on Apr. 5, 2017 @ 17:41 GMT
Dear Ch. and coauthors,

I enjoyed reading your historical account, especially Einstein's own zig-zag on the matter, which I suppose is part of what you meant by wandering. Incidentally, Einstein's following response to the referee report of Robertson forwarded by the Editor of Physical review [which I am sure you know of] is rather amusing:

"

Dear Sir,

We (Mr. Rosen and I) had sent you our manuscript for publication and had not authorized you to show it to specialists before it is printed. I see no reason to address the — in any case erroneous — comments of your anonymous expert. On the basis of this incident I prefer to publish the paper elsewhere.

Respectfully,

P.S. Mr. Rosen, who has left for the Soviet Union, has authorized me to represent him in this matter.

"

Thus implying that the paper was submitted for publication, not for refereeing.

My best regards,

Tejinder

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Author Christian Corda replied on Apr. 6, 2017 @ 09:27 GMT
Dear Tejinder,

Thanks for your kind comments. We are happy and honored that you enjoyed reading our Essay. Yes, you are correct on the issue that Einstein's own zig-zag on the matter is part of what we meant by wandering. We also knew Einstein's response to the referee report of Robertson forwarded by the Editor of Physical Review. It was indeed very amusing not only for its meaning, but also because Einstein was so mad with the Editor of Physical Review that he wrote such a reply (that you reported being correctly translated) in German instead of in English!!

Thanks again, we wish you success in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




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