Search FQXi


If you are aware of an interesting new academic paper (that has been published in a peer-reviewed journal or has appeared on the arXiv), a conference talk (at an official professional scientific meeting), an external blog post (by a professional scientist) or a news item (in the mainstream news media), which you think might make an interesting topic for an FQXi blog post, then please contact us at forums@fqxi.org with a link to the original source and a sentence about why you think that the work is worthy of discussion. Please note that we receive many such suggestions and while we endeavour to respond to them, we may not be able to reply to all suggestions.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Contests Home

Current Essay Contest


Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fnd.

Previous Contests

Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics
Contest Partners: Nanotronics Imaging, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, and The John Templeton Foundation
Media Partner: Scientific American

read/discusswinners

How Should Humanity Steer the Future?
January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014
Contest Partners: Jaan Tallinn, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, The John Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American
read/discusswinners

It From Bit or Bit From It
March 25 - June 28, 2013
Contest Partners: The Gruber Foundation, J. Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American
read/discusswinners

Questioning the Foundations
Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?
May 24 - August 31, 2012
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, SubMeta, and Scientific American
read/discusswinners

Is Reality Digital or Analog?
November 2010 - February 2011
Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation and Scientific American
read/discusswinners

What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?
May - October 2009
Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams
read/discusswinners

The Nature of Time
August - December 2008
read/discusswinners

Forum Home
Introduction
Terms of Use

Order posts by:
 chronological order
 most recent first

Posts by the author are highlighted in orange; posts by FQXi Members are highlighted in blue.

By using the FQXi Forum, you acknowledge reading and agree to abide by the Terms of Use

 RSS feed | RSS help
RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

Héctor Gianni: on 3/22/17 at 23:02pm UTC, wrote Dear Christian I invite you and every physicist to read my work “TIME...

Peter Jackson: on 3/22/17 at 21:18pm UTC, wrote Hi Chris The link is here; Tidal Prediction Tables My point is that do...

Christian Corda: on 3/22/17 at 11:41am UTC, wrote Hi Tom, I am happy to re-meet you here in FQXi. We are honored that you...

Vladimir Tamari: on 3/22/17 at 1:46am UTC, wrote Dear Christian Mathematical ingenuity can establish equivalence between...

Thomas Ray: on 3/22/17 at 0:21am UTC, wrote Christian, et al, It's a great time to be a relativist, isn't it? ...

Christian Corda: on 3/21/17 at 9:47am UTC, wrote Dear Satyavarapu, My pleasure. Cheers, Ch.

Christian Corda: on 3/21/17 at 9:46am UTC, wrote Thanks for your appreciation, dear Jim. We will see if we will detect what...

Christian Corda: on 3/21/17 at 9:42am UTC, wrote Dear Vladimir, Thanks for your kind comments. I do not see your vision of...


RECENT FORUM POSTS

leonae gonzales: "This seems to be very interesting site. Professionally i am a writer at the..." in Quantum Replicants:...

James Putnam: "Quoting Gary D. Simpson: "If you disapprove of one-bombing and wish to..." in FQXi Essay Contest 2016:...

Steven Andresen: "It might be that I have come to know where the hidden variable is, to..." in 80 Years of EPR —...

Lawrence Crowell: "The choice for anonymous commenting is a good idea. A person scoring less..." in FQXi Essay Contest 2016:...

dieu le: "The Creation of Momentum From the gigantic Milky Way Galaxy to the..." in Alternative Models of...

dieu le: "What causes Things Move in Universe? Things move when encountering a..." in Alternative Models of...

leonae gonzales: "I would like to prepare a review of this topic with the help of research..." in Quantum Replicants:...

Thewitcher: "Đến với dịch vụ chữ ký số giachukyso.net bạn sẽ được..." in Riding the Rogue Quantum...


RECENT ARTICLES
click titles to read articles

Quantum Replicants: Should future androids dream of quantum sheep?
To build the ultimate artificial mimics of real life systems, we may need to use quantum memory.

Painting a QBist Picture of Reality
A radical interpretation of physics makes quantum theory more personal.

The Spacetime Revolutionary
Carlo Rovelli describes how black holes may transition to "white holes," according to loop quantum gravity, a radical rewrite of fundamental physics.

Riding the Rogue Quantum Waves
Could giant sea swells help explain how the macroscopic world emerges from the quantum microworld? (Image credit: MIT News)

Rescuing Reality
A "retrocausal" rewrite of physics, in which influences from the future can affect the past, could solve some quantum quandaries—saving Einstein's view of reality along the way.


FQXi FORUM
March 23, 2017

CATEGORY: Wandering Towards a Goal Essay Contest (2016-2017) [back]
TOPIC: Interferometric detection of gravitational waves: how can a wild roam through mindless mathematical laws really be a trek towards the goal of unification? by Christian Corda, Reza Katebi, and Nathan O. Schmidt [refresh]
Bookmark and Share
Login or create account to post reply or comment.

This essay's rating: Community = 5.7; Public = 5.7


Author Christian Corda wrote on Mar. 6, 2017 @ 16:52 GMT
Essay Abstract

The event GW150914 was the first historical detection of gravitational waves (GWs). The emergence of this ground-breaking discovery came not only from incredibly innovative experimental work, but also from a centennial of theoretical analyses. Many such analyses were performed by pioneering scientists who had wandered through a wild territory of mathematical laws. We explore such wandering and explain how it may impact the grand goal of unification in physics.

Author Bio

C. Corda is Professor of Astrophysics and Theoretical Physics at the Scuola Superiore di Studi Universitari e Ricerca "Santa Rita", Roma, Italy and Contract Professor of Astrophysics at the Research Institute for Astronomy and Astrophysics of Maragha, Iran. R. Katebi and N. O. Schmidt are two students in physics (R. Katebi) and mathematics (N. O. Schmidt) who collaborate with the research group of C.Corda in writing various papers in international peer reviewed journals in the fields of of Astrophysics, Theoretical Physics and Mathematics.

Download Essay PDF File




George Kirakosyan wrote on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 06:29 GMT
Hi dear Christian

It is nice to see you (and co-authors) in the contest. I have read your interesting article and have got there some valuable for me information. Particularly, I have impressed with that dramatic situation of Einstein that was linked with creation of GW. I had felt that it could not be accepted by Einstein so easy because there are one deep (and obvious) logical contradiction between GW and one of basic principle GR. It was very important to me to know that Einstein has some doubt in soul on the existence GW in generally! For this, mainly I am very thankful from your article.

I never hide that I did not trust in the existence of GW and I have continue say this even there was announce on the detection of GW by LIGO group. This let be remain up on their conscience.

I will call your attention only on the next argument; GR was based on the close - action principle, and GW, however, assume the existence of a far - action, let it be explained as a current of gravitons or, as the action trough the field etc. So, GW should be not there, otherwise this valuable – important principle of GR become broken in fact! I think Einstein was so doubtful on GW on this namely. There goes on the more powerful LISA project. I hope it can be realized and there will be finally established …. the absence of GW!

Thus, I can welcome only your article as high valuable for me and evaluate it accordingly.

With best regards

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 10:26 GMT
Hi dear George,

Thanks for your kind words on our Essay.

Differently from your opinion, I am instead sure that GWs really exist and I am curious to see the LISA results.

Good luck in the Contest, I will read, comment and score your Essay asap.

Cheers, Ch.




Member George F. R. Ellis wrote on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 06:35 GMT
Dear authors

this is a nice essay on gravitational wave detection. However I am having difficulty seeing how it relates to the theme set for this competition, namely "How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?"

Can you please enlighten me?

regards

report post as inappropriate

George Kirakosyan replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 07:59 GMT
Dear professor Ellis,

As I understand your question addressed to me because I am one only here up to now. You are right of course and I can say you sorry, because I have gone on a little bit side to my favorable theme.

Then let me ask you contrary question.

Why you somewhat changed contest question?

There was - "How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?"

And you hawe openly replaced it as - "How can a universe that is ruled by natural laws give rise to aims and intentions?"

Is this same this two questions in your opinion?

And you narrate your nice tractate .... about microbiology!

I hope we are gents and we will not touch each to other, as a continuation.

Regards

report post as inappropriate

Member George F. R. Ellis replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 08:53 GMT
I replied on my own thread. I addressed three of the subthemes specified in the essay goals.

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 10:43 GMT
Dears Georges (Ellis and Kirakosyan).

Thanks for your kind comments.

In our Essay aims and intention are detection of GWs, realization of a GW astronomy and potential implications on the research of the unification of physics. Concerning the theme set for this competition, this is a very particular case for an important reason. For a long time, the correct identification of aims and intention has been a very controversial issue based on the large debate, characterized by wandering through a wild territory of mathematical laws, which involved various scientists, included the same Einstein. That debate focused about the potential existence-non existence of GWs. Thus, in the current case, a big amount of mindless mathematical laws has been needed, not only in order to give rise to aims and intention, but, in a very long preliminary way (about 40 years), also in order to correctly identify such aims and intention.

Cheers, Ch.




William L Stubbs wrote on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 15:18 GMT
C. Corda, et al.

Congratulations on your work in detecting gravity waves. I am not convinced of their existence yet, but perhaps more research will shift my position. Besides, your case is very compelling to the jury that counts, of which, I am not a member.

You have submitted a very interesting essay, but it does not seem to align with the theme of the contest. What is even more perplexing is that, at the issuance of this post, it is the highest rate essay out of over 150 submitted. I am curious about your motivation for submitting it.

Again, congratulations on your efforts and much success in your future endeavors with regard to them. (Maybe you will even convince me one day.)

Regards,

Bill Stubbs.

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 16:07 GMT
Dear Bill,

Thanks for your comments.

As we previously told in reply to a similar comment by Prof. Ellis, in our analysis aims and intention are detection of GWs, realization of a GW astronomy and potential implications on the research of the unification of physics. Concerning the theme set for this competition, this is a very particular case for an important reason. For a long time, the correct identification of aims and intention has been a very controversial issue based on the large debate, characterized by wandering through a wild territory of mathematical laws, which involved various scientists, included the same Einstein. That debate focused about the potential existence-non existence of GWs. Thus, in the current case, a big amount of mindless mathematical laws has been needed, not only in order to give rise to aims and intention, but, in a very long preliminary way (about 40 years), also in order to correctly identify such aims and intention.

In addition, I would like to stress a remarkable observation of Jack Hamilton James. He argues that our Essay is a unique and opposite way into the essay contest. In fact, the other Essays start with the external world and try to show how it produces intention. In our Essay we point out to start with maths and try and work it to fit the external world. In all honesty, I do not know if our case is very compelling to the FQXi jury. We will see this in the future.

In any case, our Essay is no more the highest rate essay out of over 150 submitted. It seems that some troll gave us a "1" in order to decrease our score. Finally, I do not understand why the issue that our Essay was the highest rate essay out of over 150 submitted should make you perplexed.

In any case, I will read, comment and score your Essay in next days. Good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 15:30 GMT
Corda, Katebi, and Schmidt,

This is a pretty good essay. The detection of gravitational radiation does potentially lead to some deeper results. The BMS symmetry, or the subsymmetry of abelian translations, can leads to understanding the physics of soft gravitons.

Cheers LC

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 16:12 GMT
Hi LC,

It is a pleasure re-meeting you here in FQXi Contest. Thanks for your congrats, it will be my pleasure to read, comment and score your Essay soon.

Cheers, Ch.



Lawrence B. Crowell replied on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 22:25 GMT
Dang! I gave you a decent score this morning and now you have dropped terribly. I was early on near the top and fell to 5.6 and then climbed up.

We were kicking around a year and a half ago an idea with solitons and tunneling states with rotating black holes. I came up with a bit of something recently that might feed life into that. The idea was that the Kerr frame dragging around a black hole was quantum mechanically analogous to the Josephson junction. I have found this connects with S-duality.

It looks as if you affiliation has changed. It looks a little more solid than what you had. I too need to get myself better situated.

Cheers LC

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 9, 2017 @ 10:46 GMT
Hi LC,

Thanks for your decent score. As usual there are some trolls giving a "1" for decreasing the total score of the Essays. This is not a new in the FQXi Essay Contest...

Send me via private email your new insights on solitons and tunneling states with rotating black holes. We will discuss the situation and we attempt to write a new research paper.

Cheers, Ch.




James Arnold wrote on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 16:07 GMT
Although I too am perplexed about the relevance, I'm happy to pose a question about the theoretical basis of radiant (as opposed to geometric) gravitational waves.

It seems to me that there are two incompatible theories of gravitation, the quantum theory having been introduced without bothering to refute Einstein's earlier geometric theory.

If gravitation is due to the warping of spacetime geometry, it's easy to imagine an imbalanced binary radiating ripples of warping intensity, and if kinetic/potential energy is being lost to the system, then it is being gained by the universe at large... but the theoretical introduction of radiation by analogy with electromagnetism is an added complication that as far as I know has never been justified, except possibly to bring gravitation into the department of quantum physics.

You can see my argument at http://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/article/view/1692 if you like.

Jim

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 9, 2017 @ 10:42 GMT
Hi Jim,

Thanks for your comment.

Concerning your being perplexed about the relevance of our Essay you can read the below comment of my co-author Nathan O. Schmidt. I will bring back to you soon concerning your question about the theoretical basis of radiant (as opposed to geometric) gravitational waves.

Cheers, Ch.




Author Christian Corda wrote on Mar. 9, 2017 @ 10:37 GMT
COMMENT OF THE AUTHOR NATHAN O. SCHMIDT

Hello all!

Thanks for your comments and discussions. For those of you who may be confused about the relevance of this essay, I will attempt an additional clarification.

Numerous scientists (ex. Einstein, Rosen, and others, etc.) were aimed at the goal of establishing a unified field theory of physics; they spent decades trying to...

view entire post





Cristinel Stoica wrote on Mar. 9, 2017 @ 10:52 GMT
Dear Christian, Reza, and Nathan,

I enjoyed reading your well-written and instructive essay about gravitational waves and the foundational role of general relativity for the entire physics and other fields. We know from Galilei and Einstein that the fundamental laws of physics are the same everywhere, at any scale, and for any observer. The role of the observer is paramount both in relativity and quantum mechanics, being immersed in a world which in its turn affects, and as Wheeler says, the universe is participatory. This can be seen in many modern approaches to inflationary cosmology, quantum mechanics, and the problem of why these particular fundamental laws and constants are at the basis of our universe. It appears miraculous how mindless laws gave rise to intelligences who were able to predict and measure the gravitational waves, or, if I don't exaggerate too much by saying this, to detect the EEG of these brainwaves of the brain of the God of Einstein and Spinoza, or, as Einstein put it, to know His thoughts. Good luck with the contest!

Best regards,

Cristi

The Tablet of the Metalaw

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 10, 2017 @ 08:30 GMT
Dear Cristi,

We are very honored by your kind words on our Essay, thanks a lot. Wheeler's statement that "the universe is participatory" is wonderful. Maybe the nascent GW astronomy could help in "knowing God's thoughts".

We well read, comment and score you Essay soon.

Thanks again and good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Mar. 11, 2017 @ 02:36 GMT
Thanks for the good word on my essay over at my site. Sorry to see that your essay seems to have dropped a lot. I have you a high score the other day. I think it was a 9, with 1 deducted for seeming a bit off from the central point of the essay prompt. I wrote the following in response to your statement about unitarity and equivalence principle.

My sense is that the equivalence principle and the unitarity principle are versions of the same thing. Because of this they do not generally hold completely for general experimental conditions. It is really similar to the duality between reality and locality in Bell's theorem. You can have one, but not the other. The same I think happens here in that if you can measure all quantum states in a nondestructive way (weak measurements, etc) you then have some small deformation of the equivalence principle. On the other hand if you measures the EP to complete accuracy this is traded off by some inability to account for quantum states in a unitary manner.

Cheers LC

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 11, 2017 @ 08:35 GMT
Hi LC,

If you are correct on the duality between the equivalence principle and the unitarity principle this is a very intriguing issue.

Concerning the point that our Essay seems a bit off from the central point of the essay prompt, give a look to the above comment of my co-author Nathan O. Schmidt.

Our essay has dropped a lot because, as usual, in the Contest there are some trolls which give "1" in order to drop Essays having a score higher than their proper ones.

Cheers, Ch.



Lawrence B. Crowell replied on Mar. 11, 2017 @ 13:53 GMT
I got bombed with a 2 yesterday. I will say the essays near the top are pretty good, with one notable exception IMO.

I am not that wedded to any particular thoery or paradigm. I tend to wear different hats at various times. By doing that I am freer to think about things. The one person who most often restricts a person's freedom is themselves.

In physics the so called fine tuning...

view entire post


report post as inappropriate


Joe Fisher wrote on Mar. 11, 2017 @ 16:52 GMT
Dear Professor Christian Corda,

Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.

I merely wish to point out that “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.

Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.

The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and perhaps comment on its merit.

Joe Fisher, Realist

report post as inappropriate


Wilhelmus de Wilde wrote on Mar. 12, 2017 @ 16:34 GMT
Dear Christian,

Thanks a lot for your comment on my essay.

I have read with great interest the work of yourself and the co-authors.

The gravitational waves trembled through the text.

The goal of any wave is insecure, it goes on and on.

You also deserve a high rating.

best regards

Wilhelmus

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 08:18 GMT
Dear Wilhelmus,

Thanks for your kind words and for thinking that we deserve a high rating. Your sentence "The gravitational waves trembled through the text" is marvelous.

Thanks again and good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Edwin Eugene Klingman wrote on Mar. 12, 2017 @ 20:09 GMT
Dear Christian Corda,

When I first read your essay, I too thought that you had missed the point of the essay. But after reading your comments I now understand that you simply placed another interpretation on the question and you actually answered extremely well from that perspective. After all, the mindless math did make predictions for over a century, and gave rise to considerable aims and intentions necessary to evaluate the model.

I think it's also relevant to focus as you do on development of the 'mindless math', with logical mistakes made along the way and consequent changes in predictions and interpretations.

So congratulations on finding a unique but relevant perspective and handling it well!

My best regards,

Edwin Eugene Klingman

report post as inappropriate


Author Christian Corda wrote on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 08:22 GMT
Dear Edwin,

Thanks for your comments. We are happy that you understands our interpretation of the question of the Contest and that you like the way we answered from that perspective. We are honored by your congrats.

Thanks again, we wish you good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Steve Dufourny wrote on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 11:36 GMT
Hi to you 3,

Mr Corda,

I am happy to see your participation to this contest.Hope you are well.

Congratulations for your relevant papper.

All the best from Belgium

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 13:32 GMT
Hi Steve,

Nice to re-meet you in FQXi Essay Contest. Thanks for your comments, I am fine. I hope you are well too. We will read, comment and score your Essay soon. Good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.



Steve Dufourny replied on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 18:41 GMT
You are welcome.I am fine thanks.For the essay,unfortunately I have not made this contest.

All the best

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 15, 2017 @ 08:55 GMT
Sorry Steve. Then, I hope to re-meet you in next Essay Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Mar. 13, 2017 @ 14:21 GMT
Nice essay Prof Corda,

Congratulations on detection of Gravitational Waves. In Novae and supernovae explosions there will be gravitational disturbances and a possibility of GW generation.

………………………… At this point I want you to ask you to please have a look at my essay, where ……………reproduction of Galaxies in the Universe is described. Dynamic...

view entire post


report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 14, 2017 @ 10:10 GMT
Dear Satyavarapu,

Thanks for your comment with kinds congratulations. I am happy to know that you think that our Essay is nice.

We will read, comment and score your Essay on Dynamic Universe Model soon. Good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.



Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on Mar. 15, 2017 @ 11:04 GMT
Thank you Very much Corda,

For your kindness and support.

Best Regards

=snp.gupta

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 09:47 GMT
Dear Satyavarapu,

My pleasure.

Cheers, Ch.




Jonathan J. Dickau wrote on Mar. 14, 2017 @ 18:15 GMT
There is a lot to like about this paper..

I had heard the story about Einstein's vacillation, and his ire at the rejection of his GW paper with Rosen - at a GR21 plenary lecture - but this is a great intro for those who did not have that privilege. There is indeed a lot we can learn about or test in theories of gravity, by studying gravitational waves. I too am an advocate that we need to...

view entire post


report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 15, 2017 @ 09:06 GMT
Hi dear Jonathan,

Thanks for your valuable comments.

On one hand, I agree with your point of view that that strict general relativists try to carry things a bit too far and maybe we need some modification to make gravity work as we see it in nature. On the other hand, solar system tests are extremely precise. Thus, it seems that such a modification of general relativity should be very weak, see this technical paper of mine. Thanks for signaling the recent papers talking about an echo in BH merger GWs, I will read them soon.

Concerning your and Ellis' criticism on the issue that the subject matter is somewhat off topic, I still emphasize the remarkable observation of Jack Hamilton James. He argues that our Essay is a unique and opposite way into the essay contest. In fact, the other Essays start with the external world and try to show how it produces intention. In our Essay we point out to start with maths and try and work it to fit the external world.

Cheers, Ch.




Don Limuti wrote on Mar. 15, 2017 @ 20:48 GMT
Hi Christian,

1. You essay is on topic. If I may summarize: Mathematics + a lot of hard work = reality

2. The essay was a fascinating read about the current events and history of gravity waves. And I did not needed aspirin and a nap after reading it! It is not as short as my essay, but that is OK.

3. I will vote for your essay as many times as it takes to defeat the trolls :)

4. I stumbled onto a way calculate the precession of Mercury without using GR. Created two papers that were recently published. I did not believe I could make this calculation, and not completely clober GR. Yes, very strange. Would you take a look ....I think it may generate some ideas. I will e-mail to you.

Thanks for being in the contest.

Don Limuti

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 16, 2017 @ 11:46 GMT
Hi Don,

Thanks for your message with kind words. We are honored by your judgment on our Essay. Concerning the way to calculate the precession of Mercury without using GR, I know that there is some way which involves the equivalence principle. In that case, combining the equivalence principle with the precision of solar system tests, the strong implication is that the correct theory of gravity must be GR or some weak modification of GR, independently by the precession of Mercury. In any case, I will reply you by email.

Cheers,

Ch.




James Lee Hoover wrote on Mar. 19, 2017 @ 19:42 GMT
Christian, Reza and Nathan,

I checked out your essay and noted your response to questions about GR connections to the contest theme. I have been following the desire to go beyond observation of the BB with light using GR, and it now seems possible to do this with more resonance with LIGO upgrades and more than 2 stations. Such an achievement certainly connects our parochial world with the ultimate beginning. Perhaps you should have emphasized the ultimate BB potential more.

Hope you get a chance to check out my approach.

Regards,

Jim Hoover

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 20, 2017 @ 09:55 GMT
Hi Jim,

Thanks for your interesting comments. Concerning the possibility to observing the BB through GWs with LIGO upgrades and more than 2 stations, give a look to this paper of mine.

Thanks again, I will read, comment and score your Essay soon.

Cheers, Ch.



Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 20, 2017 @ 09:57 GMT
Sorry Jim, wrong link. This should work



Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 20, 2017 @ 09:58 GMT
There is something wrong in the link help page today. In any case, here is the paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/1110.1772




Peter Jackson wrote on Mar. 20, 2017 @ 17:31 GMT
Christian, et al,

I found your essay clear, well written and nice to read and interesting too. I knew Einstein had changed his mind on GW's (and many things) but not quite how much! OK the links with the topic were a touch homeopathic, but frankly I blame the topic, pregnant with quintupletaly poor assumptions and able to link to anything in physics!

On GW's. I agree they exist and...

view entire post


report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 09:28 GMT
Dear Peter,

Thanks for your kind words and for appreciating our Essay.

Concerning your proposal to detect GWs, the key point is that the effect of a propagating GW on a fluid is should be very weak. Thus, how can one extract the 'flow' corresponding to the motions from the various noises which are, in principle, present? I cannot see your sets of 'tidal prediction' tables because the link that you inserted does not work. Can you kindly re-insert it?

Thanks again and good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.

P.S.

As usual, lots of us are having the problem of trolls who give various 1's...



Peter Jackson replied on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 21:18 GMT
Hi Chris

The link is here;

Tidal Prediction Tables My point is that do the weakness of the effect we need a massive body of water. We happen to have natural bodies of water that big (I have one outside my Kent office), AND a handy moon to pass across it in a 13hr cycle (on top of the Suns 24hr cycle, a lower magnitude effect, but the same 'change in position' wrt any point on earth is then due to our rotation). The only problem we then have is that it's all so big and familiar that nobody has NOTICED what it is!! It just needs re-thinking about afresh.

The induced motion is 'UP and DOWN' as well as a flow' 'background effects' are all easy to calculate and allowed for (as far as Mars anyway) in the prediction tables. We just need to record and adjust for relative interface medium vector and density (air pressure) each time. (We call that 'wind' in the trade!).

I keep a set of the prediction tables on my yacht as they're essential for racing. Height is the more direct and useful scalar as the Lagrangian flows are slower where water depth is less due to drag. I can report that the height predictions are very precise.

Do you now see my point? I'm suggesting there's NO fundamental difference in the 'wave' effect from a distant large mass in motion than from nearby small ones!

The tables also account for epigee etc so can be a useful scientific tool.

Very best.

Peter

report post as inappropriate


Anonymous wrote on Mar. 20, 2017 @ 20:09 GMT
Dear Christian, et al,

I have read with a great interest your essay which certainly deserves an appreciation and first of all for its ontological orientation.

I did not doubt the experimental proof of the wave nature of gravitation, since it confirms my theoretical researches and conclusions concerning the mechanism of interactions. I consider all interactions (including gravitational) as wave reaction to the disturbance of material system caused by change of energy.

I wish you further creative successes.

Vladimir Rodin

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 09:33 GMT
Dear Vladimir,

Thanks for your appreciation of our Essay.

Your idea to consider interactions as wave reaction to the disturbance of material system caused by change of energy is interesting, but I think that it could work for the propagation of the interactions. When one analyzes the sources of the interaction, I think that one needs to go beyond the linear approximation.

Thanks again and good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.




Vladimir F. Tamari wrote on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 08:12 GMT
Dear Christian and fellow authors,

Thank you for reading (and bemoaning) my assault on Einstein's physics which I defended on my page. Somebody (could be me) said Einstein was right although he arrived at his results in the wrong way. Anyway your essay is very well written and interesting which made a pleasant reading.

Permit me to use the assumptions of my Beautiful Universe Model (BU), which is a sort of Cellular Automata description of physics, to speculate about gravitational waves.

From my diffraction research I have concluded that gravity is akin to the distortion of the dielectric ether around matter - creating a density field that has a gradient index of refraction that - for example- bends light - an idea that also goes back to Thomas Young then Eddington . From there it is an easy step to say that de Broglie-like wave fields surrounding matter are associated with gravitational fields, and that when disturbed by motion this field generates waves.

So you see that once one is free from the fetters of spacetime formulations physics seems lighter and freer to proceed to new horizons!

Before dismissing CA theories please consider Gerard 't Hooft's new book showing Quantum Mechanics can emerge from CA. Can relativity be far behind?

Cheers

Vladimir

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 09:42 GMT
Dear Vladimir,

Thanks for your kind comments.

I do not see your vision of gravitation so different with respect to Einstein's vision. Replacing "dielectric ether" with "space-time" one finds an analogy.

In addition, I do not want to dismiss CA theories. Gerard 't Hooft's approach is an attempt to insert determinism in quantum mechanics, and I agree with him.

Thanks again and good luck in the Contest.

Cheers, Ch.



Vladimir F. Tamari replied on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 01:46 GMT
Dear Christian

Mathematical ingenuity can establish equivalence between different physical assumptions - so yes a density field can be equated in its effects to that of a field of flexible space-time. My big concern is that some scenarios are nearer to how Nature actually works. What would an alien visitor to Earth choose - a fancy complicated scheme involving the changing of the very substance of the Universe -space and time - locally requiring complicated tensors to describe and depending on nearby masses, or a simple linear density field leaving space, time, and most importantly, observers, out of the picture? Many are aware that Einstein's theories, however they facilitate calculations, lead to a false image of the fundamental workings of Nature, and hence act to block further progress such as Unification of GR with QM.

Cheers

Vladimir

report post as inappropriate


Thomas Howard Ray wrote on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 00:21 GMT
Christian, et al,

It's a great time to be a relativist, isn't it? :-)

You've written a marvelous essay, expertly exposing the importance of LIGO, and the challenges ahead, deserving my highest mark.

Please allow me to focus on:

“ … if a GW propagates in a region of space-time where two free-falling test masses are present, the GW effect will drive the masses to oscillate.”

In fact, only the phenomenon of oscillation allows us to know that a mass is present.

“Concerning the previously cited possibility of ultimately discriminating between the general theory of relativity and extended theories of gravity, only a perfect knowledge of the motion of the test masses, which are the beam-splitter and the mirrors of the interferometer, will permit one to determine if the general theory of relativity is the definitive theory of gravity.”

General relativity was never intended to be the definitive theory of gravity. It was, as you imply, an intermediate step on the way to a unified field theory. If the test particles are falling in a positively curved trajectory (the geodesic of a positive curvature), they will interact. If in a negative trajectory, they won’t. What could one possibly mean, however, by a ‘negative trajectory'? Einstein said he thought of a quantum “… as a singularity, surrounded by a large vector field. With a large number of quanta a vector field can be composed that differs little from the one we presume for radiation.”

What better candidate for the mother of all fields than the neutrino field? What better source of consciousness than spacetime itself, compelling us to remember a trajectory we can never return to, and which perhaps never existed? I hope you get a chance to read my essay.

All best,

Tom

report post as inappropriate

Author Christian Corda replied on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 11:41 GMT
Hi Tom,

I am happy to re-meet you here in FQXi.

We are honored that you think our Essay being marvelous, thanks a lot!

Yes, it is indeed a great time to be a relativist. Neutrino field as the fundamental field is intriguing but a bit speculative.

Thanks also for the other interesting comments, we will read, comment and score your Essay soon. Good luck in the Contest!

Cheers, Ch.




Héctor Daniel Gianni wrote on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 23:02 GMT
Dear Christian

I invite you and every physicist to read my work “TIME ORIGIN,DEFINITION AND EMPIRICAL MEANING FOR PHYSICISTS, Héctor Daniel Gianni ,I’m not a physicist.

How people interested in “Time” could feel about related things to the subject.

1) Intellectuals interested in Time issues usually have a nice and creative wander for the unknown.

2) They usually enjoy this wander of their searches around it.

3) For millenniums this wander has been shared by a lot of creative people around the world.

4) What if suddenly, something considered quasi impossible to be found or discovered such as “Time” definition and experimental meaning confronts them?

5) Their reaction would be like, something unbelievable,… a kind of disappointment, probably interpreted as a loss of wander…..

6) ….worst than that, if we say that what was found or discovered wasn’t a viable theory, but a proved fact.

7) Then it would become offensive to be part of the millenary problem solution, instead of being a reason for happiness and satisfaction.

8) The reader approach to the news would be paradoxically adverse.

9) Instead, I think it should be a nice welcome to discovery, to be received with opened arms and considered to be read with full attention.

11)Time “existence” is exclusive as a “measuring system”, its physical existence can’t be proved by science, as the “time system” is. Experimentally “time” is “movement”, we can prove that, showing that with clocks we measure “constant and uniform” movement and not “the so called Time”.

12)The original “time manuscript” has 23 pages, my manuscript in this contest has only 9 pages.

I share this brief with people interested in “time” and with physicists who have been in sore need of this issue for the last 50 or 60 years.

Héctor

report post as inappropriate


Login or create account to post reply or comment.

Please enter your e-mail address:

And select the letter between 'K' and 'M':


Note: Joining the FQXi mailing list does not give you a login account or constitute membership in the organization.