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Anonymous: on 3/22/17 at 6:40am UTC, wrote Dear Jeff, Thanks for clarifying, I appreciate that (your comment and...

Anonymous: on 3/22/17 at 5:21am UTC, wrote Rajiv, I have not yet ranked your essay. None of what I said was from my...

Rajiv Singh: on 3/22/17 at 2:52am UTC, wrote Dear Jeff, Many writers here have taken a position that complete...

Jeffrey Schmitz: on 3/21/17 at 21:56pm UTC, wrote I am Jeff not "Jef".

Jeffrey Schmitz: on 3/21/17 at 21:54pm UTC, wrote All thoughts and information could be mapped in some “idea” space. This...

basudeba mishra: on 3/20/17 at 3:21am UTC, wrote Dear Sir, We have replied to your comments in our thread. It will surely...

Rajiv Singh: on 3/16/17 at 6:34am UTC, wrote Dear Joe, It appears that humor was missed entirely. Let me apologize...

Rajiv Singh: on 3/16/17 at 6:20am UTC, wrote Dear Edwin, Thank you very very much for perusing my essay, and offering...


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March 28, 2017

CATEGORY: Wandering Towards a Goal Essay Contest (2016-2017) [back]
TOPIC: Mathematical laws, a necessity but not sufficient by Rajiv K Singh [refresh]
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This essay's rating: Community = 4.0; Public = 4.0

Author Rajiv K Singh wrote on Mar. 3, 2017 @ 19:55 GMT
Essay Abstract

The laws of physics model the workings of natural phenomena so nearly comprehensively that the physicists have begun to articulate thoughts in terms of 'Theory of Everything'. Yet, there are certain phenomena, in particular, in the domain of our subjective abilities that make those thoughts possible, and our abilities to have purposeful aims and intentions, remain outside the scientific discourse. It is clear then that in the development of modern scientific thinking, certain properties and perspectives of natural function have remained ignored or unexplored. On the other hand, we may ask, does information have an existential reality? Could it exist without having a physical substratum, such as electronic register holding a bit of information, quantum states holding a qubit of information, and neurons representing the whole gamut of semantics of information? If information is not naturally associated with physical substratum, then could it ever emerge by any mechanism? The answer appears to be in the negative. In this article, it is especially worked out, how information is naturally associated with each state description of physical entities, and how natural information processing takes place at each physical interaction. It is further shown, how a self organizing system may evolve by natural processes such that elements of our thoughts and purposeful goals may emerge.

Author Bio

Gained Ph.D (1991) in (Astro)Physics from Tata Institute of Fundamental Research (TIFR). Worked on two major experiments, one, on-board NASA's space shuttle to study certain characteristics of cosmic rays, and another, on Giant Meterwave Radio Telescope (GMRT) in India. When my interest shifted to understanding how a brain functions, and how 'mental' abilities arise form neural, logical, and computational points of views, I left TIFR to devote full-time. While working privately, I have constructed a theoretical framework of natural information processing, form established empirical studies, and created a simulation to demonstrate the same.

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Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote on Mar. 5, 2017 @ 06:50 GMT
hi rajiv,

it would appear that your essay illustrates a formal mathemtical means by which epistemology may be defined and explored, which is great have you encountered demster-shafer (a generalisation of bayes theorem) before?



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Author Rajiv K Singh wrote on Mar. 5, 2017 @ 11:31 GMT
Dear Luke,

Thanks for your comment, and pointing me to Dempster-Shafer theory.

After you mentioned, I did look up dempster-shafer theory. But, what I describe does not relate with any kind of probability theories. No attempt is made to derive any statistical information. In fact, the attempt is directly the opposite, what information could a state of matter naturally correlate with...

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sridattadev kancharla wrote on Mar. 5, 2017 @ 20:50 GMT
Dear Rajiv,

Universe is an i-Sphere and we humans are capable of interpreting it as 4 dimensional dual torus inside a 3-Sphere, which consists of Riemann 2-sphere as Soul as depicted in S=BM^2 diagram in the attached doc. Soul is the simplest of the complex manifolds with in the 3-sphere, Mind and Body constitute the remaining complexity. Soul, Mind and Body are in a toroidal flux in human...

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attachments: 7_zero__i__infinity.docx

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basudeba mishra wrote on Mar. 10, 2017 @ 02:39 GMT
Dear Sir,

In the world of increasing fictionalization of physics, your paper stands apart by its logical consistency. You have rightly observed that “An information always conveys a relation, at least with contextual elements”. We call all objects “padaartha”, for the same reason: a pada – speech form hinting at information about a specific concept and artha – the object having...

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Author Rajiv K Singh replied on Mar. 10, 2017 @ 11:17 GMT
Dear Basudeba,

First thank you for perusing the essay and commenting. I am not well versed with the perspective that you offer, in particular the ancient knowledge, but after you mentioned, I read a bit about such schools of thoughts.

> “If an interaction among physical entities results in an observable state S of a physical entity P, then S of P must reciprocally relate (or...

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Joe Fisher replied on Mar. 10, 2017 @ 16:58 GMT
Dear Dr. Rajiv K Singh,

Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.

I merely wish to point out that “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.

Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.


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Author Rajiv K Singh replied on Mar. 11, 2017 @ 05:35 GMT
Dear Surreal Lord Joe Fisher,

Please excuse me for having all intentions to issue a disparaging remark about no part of your essay.

I incorrectly 'wish to implicate', “Things could be as complex as humans, and only a limited mathematical nature has the ability to create complexity even greater, and endow it with an universal language of expression.", to Lord Joe Fisher, still...

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Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Mar. 11, 2017 @ 20:26 GMT
Nice essay Dr Rajiv K Singh,

Your ideas and thinking are excellent on neural networks. I don’t know much about them, I learned a lot today, very good.

Your words in the appendix ….. “If the description of Nature, as defined by classical physics, and as supported by mathematical expressions with analog functions were to be true and exact, then the states could be described with...

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Edwin Eugene Klingman wrote on Mar. 16, 2017 @ 01:50 GMT
Dear Rajiv K Singh,

Thanks for an interesting essay, and for your response to my essay.

You begin by saying "information must have reality of its own, otherwise it cannot be created."

Many today speak of information as if it were a type of particle. I do not believe this. Energy flows between systems, and if the energy causes a structural change (ink on paper, electronic...

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Author Rajiv K Singh replied on Mar. 16, 2017 @ 06:20 GMT
Dear Edwin,

Thank you very very much for perusing my essay, and offering your views on it. Thank you again for striking on one of the most important contentions of mine that 'information must have a reality of its own'. Yes indeed, I too do not mean it to be something like a particle. I do take it though, as an associated property with a physical entity, almost like charge or mass, but...

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basudeba mishra wrote on Mar. 20, 2017 @ 03:21 GMT
Dear Sir,

We have replied to your comments in our thread. It will surely surprise you.



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Jeffrey Michael Schmitz wrote on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 21:54 GMT
All thoughts and information could be mapped in some “idea” space. This mapping is similar to Hilbert space in quantum mechanics, where each physical property is a ray in complex space. The details of this “idea” space (course code?) are not given, so this could be complex space or something different. This is a time-independent system “the terms ‘causal’ and ‘causality’, as used here, bear no presumption of temporal order.” Effects do not occur before causes, so somehow this temporal relationship must be set-up outside of this “idea” space. Once a proper matrix of information is set up then a solution is some best-fit vector in this space. Learning would be a better-fit vector (unless the attempted vector somehow changes the matrix “learning” would seem to be impossible). Yes, I can see this as a model for bacterium living in certain zone between “attractors” and “repulsion” and this could also be a model for a neural net. We should not assume that this is a model for all possible state just because it includes the simplest and the most complex.

I think this might be a good model for emotions. First, there is a valid evolutionary need for emotions. Anger, sadness, fear, happiness and other emotion change the behavior of an animal in (mostly) useful ways to help conform to conditions. Sad because of a lack of food will slow an animal down to conserve resources, as an example. Emotional state is due to a complex mixture of many factors.

I must note that this essay is not an easy read. The author’s wish to start general and stay general with few examples does not help the reader. Figure 3 with actual size and angular size made me confused until realized the relation to Hilbert space. I read this essay a number of times and I am sure I am still not clear about a number of ideas presented here.

Hope you do well in the contest,


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Jeffrey Michael Schmitz replied on Mar. 21, 2017 @ 21:56 GMT
I am Jeff not "Jef".

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Author Rajiv K Singh replied on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 02:52 GMT
Dear Jeff,

Many writers here have taken a position that complete description of nature is not entirely derivable from mathematics alone. Mine happens to be one of them. In contrast to other essays that base their arguments on emergence of novel properties without having to derive how emergence actually takes place, my essay goes beyond that to actually show the steps. I am sorry that things...

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Anonymous wrote on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 05:21 GMT

I have not yet ranked your essay. None of what I said was from my essay, I was trying to restate your essay in my own words. I am not trying to judge your essay, just understand it.

Some essays are for a general readership and others are not. Your essay (we can both agree) is not for a general readership.

Quantum physics never violates causality.

In figure 3, what does angular size mean? I thought this was some angle in some "idea" space. You talk about p and not p being similar to being at right angles. Can physical entities be at less (or greater) than right angles to each others? Is this that angular size?

In nature, understanding the relationship between cause and effect is very important. How would you relate cause to effect in your system?

You talk about oxidation and fermentation for two different types of bacteria. Can you show a case where one type of bacteria makes a choice between two different pathways?

Sorry for the misunderstanding,


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Anonymous wrote on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 06:40 GMT
Dear Jeff,

Thanks for clarifying, I appreciate that (your comment and rating happened around the same time). By all means, you must raise doubts, and it is my job to attempt to satisfy, or in due course may fail.

I see that you have put forward a notion of 'idea space' that you assert maps onto Hilbert Space. But I attempt to present a case that information is naturally associated...

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