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How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?
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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

sussan betcher: on 4/21/17 at 6:48am UTC, wrote It is not an easy thing to write essays. You should be aware of the format...

sussan betcher: on 4/21/17 at 6:46am UTC, wrote It is not an easy thing to write essays. You should be aware of the format...

Aron Barco: on 4/14/17 at 23:17pm UTC, wrote Dear Edwin, Thank you for your comment and congratulations on finishing...

lami leese: on 4/10/17 at 8:47am UTC, wrote Thank you for your post, There are good post! Developed the Common Rail ...

Willy K: on 4/10/17 at 5:19am UTC, wrote Hi Yafet Thanks for reviewing my essay. Appreciate your effort. I have...

Edwin Klingman: on 4/7/17 at 23:03pm UTC, wrote Dear Yafet, I'm glad you liked my essay; thanks for responding. Quoting...

Aron Barco: on 4/7/17 at 21:05pm UTC, wrote Dear Willy, Thank you for your comments. The Mohapatra essay as you point...

Dizhechko Semyonovich: on 4/7/17 at 8:43am UTC, wrote Dear Sirs! Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of...


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FQXi FORUM
July 23, 2017

CATEGORY: Wandering Towards a Goal Essay Contest (2016-2017) [back]
TOPIC: From non-sentient stardust to home sapiens sapiens by Aron Barco and Yafet Sanchez Sanchez [refresh]
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Author Aron Barco wrote on Mar. 3, 2017 @ 17:29 GMT
Essay Abstract

In this article we explore the relationship between intentionality, mathematics, and natural laws. We argue that natural laws expressed in a mathematical language can not be the cause of our intentionality. Moreover, we propose two problems that must be solved by any theory that explains human intention.

Author Bio

Aron Barco is a postgraduate researcher in Philosophy at the University of Southampton. His thesis studies and expands some insights from Wittgenstein's remarks on the foundations of mathematics to resolve Benacerraf's Dilemma. Yafet Sanchez Sanchez obtained his Phd in Mathematics from the University of Southampton in January, 2017. The subject of his thesis is a characterisation of singularities in general relativity.

Download Essay PDF File




Joe Fisher wrote on Mar. 8, 2017 @ 17:37 GMT
Dear Drs. Aron Barco and Yafet Sanchez Sanchez [,

Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.

I merely wish to point out that “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.

Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.

The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and perhaps comment on its merit.

Joe Fisher, Realist

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Author Aron Barco replied on Apr. 5, 2017 @ 22:53 GMT
Dear Joe,

Thank you for your comment. We will try to read your essay and comment.

Kind Regards,

Yafet




Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Mar. 9, 2017 @ 06:34 GMT
Nice essay Barco,

Your ideas and thinking are excellent on Cognitive sciences and AI. Some of the good words I am quoting below…

1. Perhaps if we program a weak AI with enough conditionals (if A then B), it could learn how to respond to all inferential connections that govern our use of language.

2. The first may be called doxastic intentionality, as it is related to what...

view entire post


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Author Aron Barco replied on Apr. 5, 2017 @ 22:56 GMT
Dear Satyavarapu,

Thank you for your kind comments. I will comment in your essay thread about your essay.

Kind Regards,

Yafet




Willy K wrote on Mar. 22, 2017 @ 08:45 GMT
Hi Barco/Sanchez

I think you are correct in identifying the two questions that are necessary for solving the issue of human intentionality. The two questions suggested by you parallels the latter two of the three phase transitions suggested in the essay of Mohapatra.

Although the domain of extrinsic intelligence (Constitutional nation state) may be far removed from that of intrinsic intelligence (brains), there may be some minor commonalities between the two that allows my essay to also suggest a possible solution.

In order to do this, Sentience is being understood as Constitutional Democracy and Normativity is being understood as the technological prowess of the nation state. If that is assumed to be true, then the nine stage model in my essaycould offer a way to solve the sentience and normativity problems in two stages. First, there is a seven stage model within the nine stages (fourth and seventh levels are dropped) that creates Constitutional Democracy (parallels sentience) and then the two dropped levels are added back to the model to create the technological prowess of the nation state (parallels normativity).

I really liked your essay. I am rating it highly. Perhaps, I should also clarify that I expect the brain to be completely different from the Constitutional nation state in almost all respects other than what is discussed above.

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Author Aron Barco replied on Apr. 7, 2017 @ 21:05 GMT
Dear Willy,

Thank you for your comments. The Mohapatra essay as you point out, seems to coincide with us that there is a qualitative difference between linguistic abilities and consciousness. Moreover, their suggestion that information maybe underlines both is very appealing.

Also, I read your essay and love your starting point by considering the biomass. Regarding "higher" structures such as nation states and society. Aron and me definitely agree that there is a possibility to extend our ideas further and we will be interested in discussing them with you when they are more solid.

At the moment, I have a bit of problem understanding how "Sentience is being understood as Constitutional Democracy and Normativity is being understood as the technological prowess of the nation state." If it is possible would you mind expanding a little bit about that.

I will comment in a more detailed manner in your essay.

Kind Regards,

Yafet



Willy K replied on Apr. 10, 2017 @ 05:19 GMT
Hi Yafet

Thanks for reviewing my essay. Appreciate your effort. I have responded to your queries on my page. The four steps mentioned there can also be understood as : 1 Personal space 2. Social space 3. Political space 4. Economic space.

Basically, the third step (political space) parallels sentience in intrinsic intelligence and fourth step (economic space) parallels linguistic capability of intrinsic intelligence. Of course, it goes without saying that the nation state does not become 'sentient' in any sense of that word. I am speaking merely of a structural parallel with the earlier intelligence level. The two intelligence levels are probably different in every other way.

I expect the brain to be modeled differently from the nation state because of its bio-chemical underpinnings, which are completely absent at the social/political/economic level. We will definitely need a new model for explaining the functioning of the brain. Hope I am making sense!

Cheers, Willy

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Don Limuti wrote on Mar. 27, 2017 @ 05:38 GMT
Hi Aron,

I finally got to your sane essay. Sorry it took me so long.

"Our conclusion is not that mathematical laws give rise to our intentions, but actually the other way around" Yes, Yes, Yes!

One of the questions that needs to be answered is: "How can non-linguistic abilities constitute linguistic ones?" My essay goes into the linguistic aspects of Choice vs. Determinist..... Linguistic quicksand.

Take a look at my essay....I think you will like it.

Your essay is terribly underrated by this community...I will do my best to rectify it.

Thanks

Don Limuti

PS: If you have any interest in gravity check out:

http://prespacetime.com/index.php/pst/article/view/1188/1163


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Author Aron Barco replied on Apr. 5, 2017 @ 22:58 GMT
Hi Don,

I have read your essay and I like the linguistic form your essay has ;)

I will comment there in more detail.

Kind Regards,

Yafet




Dizhechko Boris Semyonovich wrote on Apr. 7, 2017 @ 08:43 GMT
Dear Sirs!

Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of Newton returned as the New Cartesian Physic and promises to be a theory of everything. To tell you this good news I use «spam».

New Cartesian Physic based on the identity of space and matter. It showed that the formula of mass-energy equivalence comes from the pressure of the Universe, the flow of force which on the corpuscle is equal to the product of Planck's constant to the speed of light.

New Cartesian Physic has great potential for understanding the world. To show it, I ventured to give "materialistic explanations of the paranormal and supernatural" is the title of my essay.

Visit my essay, you will find there the New Cartesian Physic and make a short entry: "I believe that space is a matter" I will answer you in return. Can put me 1.

Sincerely,

Dizhechko Boris

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Edwin Eugene Klingman wrote on Apr. 7, 2017 @ 23:03 GMT
Dear Yafet,

I'm glad you liked my essay; thanks for responding.

Quoting Weckbach, Godel's conclusion is not mathematically formalizable, serving as an argument against "the complete formalizability of all that exists."

You read Godel's theorem as saying that mathematics is more than formalization… I confess to not knowing how to interpret that. I could make a guess, but as I am sure you prefer an informed answer, I would suggest that you ask Stefan Weckbach this question, as he is more capable than I on this subject.

Having just read your essay (which is excellent) it is Gadamer's split between subjective and objective that I attempt to solve with the physical field of consciousness. The split has occasionally been healed through religious and/or psychedelic experiences, but never treated physically to my knowledge. The nature of self-awareness will always be a mystery, but I propose that the field possessing self-awareness couples to the real world and thus becomes part of the real physical world.

I like that you say "expressions of laws do not directly cause anything, mathematical or otherwise. What causes the sun to rise every morning are natural mechanisms, not our laws; these are just human heuristic artifacts…", and (later on) "are not created in a historical vacuum."

I generally agree with your conclusion, and offer the consciousness field as a solution to your problem #1, and, interacting with a sufficient neural net plus history, to problem #2.

I realize that more details of the physical field are required to be taken seriously and plan to provide those details in future.

Thank you for reading and commenting and participating in this contest.

My best wishes,

Edwin Eugene Klingman

PS. As I have been working with a friend who has now spent several years working on singularities in general relativity, I would be interested in your recent thesis. If it is not on arXiv, could you point me to it. Thanks.

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Author Aron Barco replied on Apr. 14, 2017 @ 23:17 GMT
Dear Edwin,

Thank you for your comment and congratulations on finishing 1st.

I have not uploaded my thesis to Arxiv, but some of the following links are results that appear on my thesis.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1702.00315.pdf

https://arxiv.org
/pdf/1507.06463.pdf

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.03584.pdf

Kind Regards,

Yafet Sanchez Sanchez




lami leese wrote on Apr. 10, 2017 @ 08:47 GMT
Thank you for your post, There are good post! Developed the Common Rail fuel system for heavy duty vehicles and turned it into practical use on their ECD-U2 common-rail system.Modern common rail systems, whilst working on the same principle sensor are governed by an engine control unit (ECU). The design was acquired by the German Common Rail Shim & Gasket kit companyRobert Bosch GmbH for completion of development and refinement for mass-production Common Rail Nozzle . In hindsight,As the new technology proved to be highly profitable. The Common Rail Injector Valve had little choice but to sell, however,In 1997 they extended its use for passenger cars Common Rail Injector .The first passenger car that used the common rail system.

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sussan betcher wrote on Apr. 21, 2017 @ 06:46 GMT
It is not an easy thing to write essays. You should be aware of the format and have a knowledge about the particular topic to write on the same. I was looking forward some sites which can help me with the oren loni essay topics. I am glad to find your site and get a large list of topics.

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sussan betcher wrote on Apr. 21, 2017 @ 06:48 GMT
It is not an easy thing to write essays. You should be aware of the format and have a knowledge about the particular topic to write on the same. I was looking forward some sites which can help me with the oren loni essay topics. I am glad to find your site and get a large list of topics.

report post as inappropriate


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