If you are aware of an interesting new academic paper (that has been published in a peer-reviewed journal or has appeared on the arXiv), a conference talk (at an official professional scientific meeting), an external blog post (by a professional scientist) or a news item (in the mainstream news media), which you think might make an interesting topic for an FQXi blog post, then please contact us at forums@fqxi.org with a link to the original source and a sentence about why you think that the work is worthy of discussion. Please note that we receive many such suggestions and while we endeavour to respond to them, we may not be able to reply to all suggestions.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Contests Home

Current Essay Contest

Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fnd.

Previous Contests

**Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics**

*Contest Partners: Nanotronics Imaging, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, and The John Templeton Foundation*

Media Partner: Scientific American

read/discuss • winners

**How Should Humanity Steer the Future?**

*January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014*

*Contest Partners: Jaan Tallinn, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, The John Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**It From Bit or Bit From It**

*March 25 - June 28, 2013*

*Contest Partners: The Gruber Foundation, J. Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**Questioning the Foundations**

Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?

*May 24 - August 31, 2012*

*Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, SubMeta, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**Is Reality Digital or Analog?**

*November 2010 - February 2011*

*Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?**

*May - October 2009*

*Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams*

read/discuss • winners

**The Nature of Time**

*August - December 2008*

read/discuss • winners

Current Essay Contest

Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fnd.

Previous Contests

Media Partner: Scientific American

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

Forum Home

Introduction

Terms of Use

RSS feed | RSS help

Introduction

Terms of Use

*Posts by the author are highlighted in orange; posts by FQXi Members are highlighted in blue.*

RSS feed | RSS help

RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

**Dizhechko Semyonovich**: *on* 4/7/17 at 8:50am UTC, wrote Dear Sirs! Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of...

**James Hoover**: *on* 4/4/17 at 5:27am UTC, wrote Shankaranarayanan, Time grows short, so I am reviewing those I've read to...

**James Hoover**: *on* 3/29/17 at 17:13pm UTC, wrote Shankaranarayanan S and Swastik Bhattacharya: I can't pretend to...

**SHANKARANARAYANAN S**: *on* 3/8/17 at 18:02pm UTC, wrote Hi, Thanks for your message. We will send our comments to your essay asap....

**SHANKARANARAYANAN S**: *on* 3/8/17 at 17:59pm UTC, wrote Hi Steve, Thanks for your kind message. Best, Shanki

**Joe Fisher**: *on* 3/8/17 at 17:20pm UTC, wrote Dear Swastik Bhattacharya and S. Shankaranarayanan, Please excuse me...

**Satyavarapu Gupta**: *on* 3/8/17 at 15:50pm UTC, wrote Nice essay Bhattacharya, Shankaranarayanan , Your essay is basically about...

**Steve Dufourny**: *on* 3/8/17 at 11:33am UTC, wrote Hello to both of you, I liked a lot your papper and how you analyse these...

RECENT FORUM POSTS

**Steve Agnew**: "The universe is finite and not infinite. The notion of infinity or..."
*in* Watching the Observers

**Anonymous**: ""According to quantum mechanics, a vacuum isn't empty at all. It's actually..."
*in* Manipulating the Quantum...

**Lorraine Ford**: "Dear Rajiv, I have already addressed your 3 points, but I will put it to..."
*in* FQXi Essay Contest 2016:...

**Joe Fisher**: "Dear Georgina, That is very interesting, but please remember that the..."
*in* Watching the Observers

**Peter Morgan**: "An e-mail sent to me by Springer Nature today tells me that because I am at..."
*in* Manipulating the Quantum...

**munized ward**: "Variety exists inside all populaces of life forms. This happens somewhat in..."
*in* Natural Selection in...

**Pentcho Valev**: "Not Even Wrong Concepts in Physics: Entropy The following argument is..."
*in* We Are All Connected

**Rajiv Singh**: "Dear Lorraine, Oh! I did not check your recent responses. Let me address..."
*in* FQXi Essay Contest 2016:...

RECENT ARTICLES

*click titles to read articles*

**Watching the Observers**

Accounting for quantum fuzziness could help us measure space and time—and the cosmos—more accurately.

**Bohemian Reality: Searching for a Quantum Connection to Consciousness**

Is there are sweet spot where artificial intelligence systems could have the maximum amount of consciousness while retaining powerful quantum properties?

**Quantum Replicants: Should future androids dream of quantum sheep?**

To build the ultimate artificial mimics of real life systems, we may need to use quantum memory.

**Painting a QBist Picture of Reality**

A radical interpretation of physics makes quantum theory more personal.

**The Spacetime Revolutionary**

Carlo Rovelli describes how black holes may transition to "white holes," according to loop quantum gravity, a radical rewrite of fundamental physics.

RECENT FORUM POSTS

RECENT ARTICLES

Accounting for quantum fuzziness could help us measure space and time—and the cosmos—more accurately.

Is there are sweet spot where artificial intelligence systems could have the maximum amount of consciousness while retaining powerful quantum properties?

To build the ultimate artificial mimics of real life systems, we may need to use quantum memory.

A radical interpretation of physics makes quantum theory more personal.

Carlo Rovelli describes how black holes may transition to "white holes," according to loop quantum gravity, a radical rewrite of fundamental physics.

FQXi FORUM

June 23, 2017

CATEGORY:
Wandering Towards a Goal Essay Contest (2016-2017)
[back]

TOPIC: Does the future determine the dynamics of horizons in quantum gravity? by Shankaranarayanan S and Swastik Bhattacharya [refresh]

TOPIC: Does the future determine the dynamics of horizons in quantum gravity? by Shankaranarayanan S and Swastik Bhattacharya [refresh]

General Relativity predicts the existence of black-holes. Access to the complete space-time manifold is required to describe black-holes. This strange feature necessitates that black-hole dynamics is specified by future or teleological boundary condition. Here we demonstrate that the statistical mechanical description of black-holes, as required by the laws of black-hole thermodynamics, also requires teleological boundary condition. It is known for three decades that the Einstein's equations when projected on space-time horizons resemble Navier-Stokes equation of a fluid. Within this paradigm, we show that the specific heat and the coefficient of bulk viscosity of the horizon-fluid are negative only if the teleological boundary condition is taken into account. We argue that in quantum theory of gravity, the future boundary condition plays a crucial role and discuss its implications.

Shankaranarayanan obtained his Ph.D. in 2002 from IUCAA, Pune, India. After postdoctoral work at the University of Azores, ICTP-Trieste, Italy and Albert Einstein Institute-Golm, Germany; he was a Marie Curie Fellow at the ICG, Portsmouth, UK. Since 2009, he is a faculty at ISER-Thiruvananthapuram and heads Max Planck Partner Group on Cosmology and Gravity. His interests is Early-Universe Cosmology and Gravity. Bhattacharya did his PhD from TIFR, Mumbai, India. His current research interests are understanding the physics of black holes and exploring the challenges in putting together the Quantum theory and Gravity. Currently he is a postdoctoral fellow at IISER-Thiruvananthapuram.

Dear Swastik Bhattacharya and S. Shankaranarayanan,

Your essay is well-written and very interesting. The fluid approach to the black hole thermodynamics has relevant implications, not only to the problem itself, but also to the utility of future boundary conditions. Indeed, it appears that not only the definition of the horizon requires such a view, but also the statistical descriptions of black hole entropy and temperature. I think your approach and the corresponding paradigm which relates the projection of Einstein equation on the horizon to the Navier-Stokes equation of a fluid is very promising to say the least, since it allows the study of the black hole thermodynamics without having to assume much about the quantum gravity level and the Plank scale. So whatever these may be, I think some of the fundamental properties can already be captured in this method.

Best regards,

Cristi Stoica

The Tablet of the Metalaw

report post as inappropriate

Your essay is well-written and very interesting. The fluid approach to the black hole thermodynamics has relevant implications, not only to the problem itself, but also to the utility of future boundary conditions. Indeed, it appears that not only the definition of the horizon requires such a view, but also the statistical descriptions of black hole entropy and temperature. I think your approach and the corresponding paradigm which relates the projection of Einstein equation on the horizon to the Navier-Stokes equation of a fluid is very promising to say the least, since it allows the study of the black hole thermodynamics without having to assume much about the quantum gravity level and the Plank scale. So whatever these may be, I think some of the fundamental properties can already be captured in this method.

Best regards,

Cristi Stoica

The Tablet of the Metalaw

report post as inappropriate

Dear Prof. Stoica,

Thank you for your detailed reply. It is very much appreciated.

Best,

Shanki

Thank you for your detailed reply. It is very much appreciated.

Best,

Shanki

I read your interesting article, but it seems to me one of two things occurred. You cut it to fit the FQXi page requirements and that made it hard to read, or you wrote it for a very specific audience that is understanding of the finer points you bring up. To give you and example. You give a bunch of equations, but most do not include definitions of the variables. On page 9 of your article you give the equation P = nk_BT n = N/V. I'm guessing k_B is Boltzmann's constant, T is temperature, but I'm not sure about N and V. If you have a longer version of this article somewhere on the web I might be interested in reading it to see the finer points that I am missing in this article.

Anyway, good luck in the contest.

Jim Akerlund

report post as inappropriate

Anyway, good luck in the contest.

Jim Akerlund

report post as inappropriate

Dear Dr. Akerlund,

Thanks for the comments. Sorry for being brief with the defintions. You guess about $k_B$, $T$ is correct. $N$ is the number of particles and $V$ is the volume.

You can look our earlier works that are in the arxiv:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1702.03682

https://arxiv.org/abs/1607.0

6222

https://arxiv.org/abs/1512.03680

Thanks, once again, for your comments.

Best,

Shanki

Thanks for the comments. Sorry for being brief with the defintions. You guess about $k_B$, $T$ is correct. $N$ is the number of particles and $V$ is the volume.

You can look our earlier works that are in the arxiv:

https://arxiv.org/abs/1702.03682

https://arxiv.org/abs/1607.0

6222

https://arxiv.org/abs/1512.03680

Thanks, once again, for your comments.

Best,

Shanki

Hello to both of you,

I liked a lot your papper and how you analyse these BHs and the horizons.The BEC also seems very relevant.I consider that dark matter, gravitation and BHs are in the cold.This zero absolute seems very relevant considering the equilibrium between gravity and electromagntism.Thanks for sharing your works and good luck in this contest.You are going to be well ranked.

Regards

report post as inappropriate

I liked a lot your papper and how you analyse these BHs and the horizons.The BEC also seems very relevant.I consider that dark matter, gravitation and BHs are in the cold.This zero absolute seems very relevant considering the equilibrium between gravity and electromagntism.Thanks for sharing your works and good luck in this contest.You are going to be well ranked.

Regards

report post as inappropriate

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your kind message.

Best,

Shanki

Thanks for your kind message.

Best,

Shanki

Nice essay Bhattacharya, Shankaranarayanan ,

Your essay is basically about Blackholes, Bigbang and CMB etc… As for Bigbang and Blackholes are mathematical singularities. As for CMB, they have not accounted for the microwave radiation emitted from Galaxies, Globular clusters and stars etc… see the essay on CMB in previous FQXi... There was no provision to eliminate this radiation in the...

view entire post

Your essay is basically about Blackholes, Bigbang and CMB etc… As for Bigbang and Blackholes are mathematical singularities. As for CMB, they have not accounted for the microwave radiation emitted from Galaxies, Globular clusters and stars etc… see the essay on CMB in previous FQXi... There was no provision to eliminate this radiation in the...

view entire post

report post as inappropriate

Dear Swastik Bhattacharya and S. Shankaranarayanan,

Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.

I merely wish to point out that “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.

Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.

The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and perhaps comment on its merit.

P.S. My essay, THE SIMPLEST UNIVERSE was sent out for review by the editor of the Indian Institute Journal of Current Science on December 28, 2016. The email address for inquiries at the site cannot be accessed by my rr email server. Could you possibly advise me as to how I might find out about the delay?

Joe Fisher, Realist

report post as inappropriate

Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.

I merely wish to point out that “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.

Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.

The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and perhaps comment on its merit.

P.S. My essay, THE SIMPLEST UNIVERSE was sent out for review by the editor of the Indian Institute Journal of Current Science on December 28, 2016. The email address for inquiries at the site cannot be accessed by my rr email server. Could you possibly advise me as to how I might find out about the delay?

Joe Fisher, Realist

report post as inappropriate

Hi,

Thanks for your message. We will send our comments to your essay asap.

Regarding Current Science: We are part of a different organization and we do not

know about the Procedures followed in Current Science.

Thanks,

Shanki

Thanks for your message. We will send our comments to your essay asap.

Regarding Current Science: We are part of a different organization and we do not

know about the Procedures followed in Current Science.

Thanks,

Shanki

Shankaranarayanan S and Swastik Bhattacharya:

I can't pretend to understand esoteric BH concepts, but gather that temperature and viscosity differentials are driving factors in the mysteriously inscrutable black hole environment. Does the Navier-Stokes equation of a fluid relate to "fluid in a universe modeling:

https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140212-big-bang-secrets-swi

rling-in-a-fluid-universe/? -- Something I reference in my essay. Does your "future influencing the present" relate to lookback time?

Hope you get a chance to comment on my essay as well.

Regards,

Jim Hoover

report post as inappropriate

I can't pretend to understand esoteric BH concepts, but gather that temperature and viscosity differentials are driving factors in the mysteriously inscrutable black hole environment. Does the Navier-Stokes equation of a fluid relate to "fluid in a universe modeling:

https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140212-big-bang-secrets-swi

rling-in-a-fluid-universe/? -- Something I reference in my essay. Does your "future influencing the present" relate to lookback time?

Hope you get a chance to comment on my essay as well.

Regards,

Jim Hoover

report post as inappropriate

Shankaranarayanan,

Time grows short, so I am reviewing those I've read to see if I have rated them. Yours I did on 3/27.

Hope you enjoyed the interchange of ideas as much as I did.

Jim Hoover

report post as inappropriate

Time grows short, so I am reviewing those I've read to see if I have rated them. Yours I did on 3/27.

Hope you enjoyed the interchange of ideas as much as I did.

Jim Hoover

report post as inappropriate

Dear Sirs!

Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of Newton returned as the New Cartesian Physic and promises to be a theory of everything. To tell you this good news I use «spam».

New Cartesian Physic based on the identity of space and matter. It showed that the formula of mass-energy equivalence comes from the pressure of the Universe, the flow of force which on the corpuscle is equal to the product of Planck's constant to the speed of light.

New Cartesian Physic has great potential for understanding the world. To show it, I ventured to give "materialistic explanations of the paranormal and supernatural" is the title of my essay.

Visit my essay, you will find there the New Cartesian Physic and make a short entry: "I believe that space is a matter" I will answer you in return. Can put me 1.

Sincerely,

Dizhechko Boris

report post as inappropriate

Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of Newton returned as the New Cartesian Physic and promises to be a theory of everything. To tell you this good news I use «spam».

New Cartesian Physic based on the identity of space and matter. It showed that the formula of mass-energy equivalence comes from the pressure of the Universe, the flow of force which on the corpuscle is equal to the product of Planck's constant to the speed of light.

New Cartesian Physic has great potential for understanding the world. To show it, I ventured to give "materialistic explanations of the paranormal and supernatural" is the title of my essay.

Visit my essay, you will find there the New Cartesian Physic and make a short entry: "I believe that space is a matter" I will answer you in return. Can put me 1.

Sincerely,

Dizhechko Boris

report post as inappropriate

Login or create account to post reply or comment.