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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

Steve Agnew: on 2/26/17 at 23:15pm UTC, wrote Aethertime is a discrete quantum aether and discrete quantum action. Any...

Peter Jackson: on 2/26/17 at 13:48pm UTC, wrote Steve, OK, yes I better understand the problem. Nobody who'se convinced...

Steve Agnew: on 2/25/17 at 21:48pm UTC, wrote Thanks again for the Singh link. Had not yet read it, but Singh is really...

Steve Agnew: on 2/25/17 at 19:58pm UTC, wrote Thanks for the Singhs link...I have not yet run across this one....

Peter Jackson: on 2/25/17 at 17:41pm UTC, wrote Steve, Thank you, but you did the same thing; started from half way down...

Anonymous: on 2/25/17 at 16:24pm UTC, wrote You and many others on this blog have very good intuition and feeling about...

Peter Jackson: on 2/24/17 at 9:03am UTC, wrote Steve, I agree, the quanta is key. My last 3 years and essay have been...

Steve Agnew: on 2/24/17 at 5:25am UTC, wrote Very good. I like it when people really think hard about physical reality....


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FQXi FORUM
February 28, 2017

CATEGORY: Wandering Towards a Goal Essay Contest (2016-2017) [back]
TOPIC: Math Laws and Observer Wandering by Steve Agnew [refresh]
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This essay's rating: Community = 4.3; Public = 5.0


Author Steve Agnew wrote on Jan. 10, 2017 @ 21:50 GMT
Essay Abstract

An observer of a source has two really different ways to predict that source's future. This is really too bad and there should be by all rights and measures just one way to predict the future of a source. Science is really not that far away from the truth, but science really has to stop arguing about the wrong things. This essay attempts to argue about the right thing; quantum phase noise.

Author Bio

Dr Agnew is a professional but not academic scientist. He earned a Ph.D. in chemical physics from Washington State University in 1981 and has used both quantum and classical physics and chemistry his whole career. Yet he considers himself a quantum hobbyist and is simply really disappointed that mainstream science has not yet united gravity and charge forces...so he went ahead and did it himself. Aethertime is a meager ten year effort to finally unite a quantum gravity with quantum charge that seems to work, but only future more precise measurements will tell for certain...

Download Essay PDF File




Author Steve Agnew wrote on Jan. 12, 2017 @ 05:16 GMT
Please, please, please, please...keep my score at 0. Zero is a good number for me and I appreciate zero more than any other thing so let's keep my essay at zero. Thanks. Steve Agnew.



basudeba mishra replied on Feb. 16, 2017 @ 14:57 GMT
Dear Sir,

Zero is something that does not exist at here-now, but exists elsewhere. So you imply that your thought is at a different level and not coinciding with the mainstream, which is evident from your post.

Best wishes and regards,

basudeba

report post as inappropriate


Gary D. Simpson wrote on Jan. 16, 2017 @ 13:48 GMT
Steve,

Good to see you in the forum.

Your definition for entropy as a sum of several logarithms is interesting to me ... matter and action. If you read my essay, you should think about that as I discuss 4-vectors.

Best Regards,

Gary Simpson

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Author Steve Agnew wrote on Jan. 17, 2017 @ 04:17 GMT
It is such a joy for me...to forever remain at the very bottom of the list...please do read my essay but do not bother to vote.

My essay attempts to connect to forces way beyond those of acclaim. My essay attempts to approach truth...



Joe Fisher replied on Jan. 17, 2017 @ 17:18 GMT
Dear Dr. Agnew,

The truth about the real observable Universe am not an approximation.

Simple natural reality has nothing to do with any abstract complex musings such as the ones you effortlessly indulge in. As I have thoughtfully pointed out in my brilliant essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY, the real Universe consists only of one unified visible infinite surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light. Reality am not as complicated as theories of reality are.

Joe Fisher, Realist

report post as inappropriate


Author Steve Agnew wrote on Jan. 18, 2017 @ 04:29 GMT
Ahh...yes...I remain at zero. I really like zero and so encourage all to read my essay but discourage any voting. I like to write, I like to be read, and I like to read others...the voting seems to me to be beside the point.

Thanks to all for nothing at all...




Author Steve Agnew wrote on Jan. 19, 2017 @ 05:20 GMT
The bottom is the very best place to be mon ami...




Steve Dufourny wrote on Jan. 19, 2017 @ 09:21 GMT
Hi Steve ,

Happy to see your papper.Like said gary it is relevant.Regards

report post as inappropriate


Author Steve Agnew wrote on Jan. 20, 2017 @ 05:44 GMT
I do appreciate those who bother to read my essay. Thank-you very much. Please do not feel the need to vote since I like to remain at zero...zero has much meaning for me since zero means that people comment without expecting an reciprocation. That is discourse...




Author Steve Agnew wrote on Jan. 21, 2017 @ 05:48 GMT
Oh blast it...somebody voted for my essay...

It is not that I do not want people to read what I write...it is that my desire is to have people have pleasure in what I write and not read because it is assigned by the teacher.

I like reading and commenting on essays, but ranking them is simply without meaning for me. The Yellow Emperor essay last time still remains with me because of my knowledge of Chinese history and it had little meaning for others.

There is a way to unite physical reality...but noone seems to even care...



Steve Dufourny replied on Jan. 21, 2017 @ 10:18 GMT
but Steve you merit good points.Accept the recognizings of people.Your works are relevant and general about aethertime and this and that.Regards

report post as inappropriate


Author Steve Agnew wrote on Jan. 21, 2017 @ 20:42 GMT
I do appreciate thoughtful comments, but rote comments seem capricious. Essay voting seems rather like a silent auction to me, especially since there are so many different ways to like one essay over another.

In the end, it is really only thoughtful comments that really count for anything from the essay effort, not some spurious vote...




Author Steve Agnew wrote on Jan. 24, 2017 @ 04:30 GMT
It is nice to see the notions of aethertime infusing into the surreality of quantum entanglement...




Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta wrote on Feb. 8, 2017 @ 09:21 GMT
Dear Agnew,

You have nicely differentiated about the roles of classical and quantum observers

In page3 in last line, you took ” a decreasing entropy for shrinking mass and increasing entropy for expanding action”. Probably you are considering red- shifted Galaxies only. You may be knowing that the red-shifted Galaxies are only 40 percent.

I request you to reconsider your thinking and modify your equations accordingly…

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Author Steve Agnew replied on Feb. 15, 2017 @ 04:20 GMT
Of course, in aethertime, it is force that expands and not space and matter shrinks just as force expands. What this means is that in a shrinking universe, galaxy light actually blue shifts due to that shrinkage.

It is expanding force that makes distant galaxies show red shifts. I don't know what you mean by 40%...



Satyavarapu Naga Parameswara Gupta replied on Feb. 17, 2017 @ 12:51 GMT
Dear Steve Agnew,

You considered only red shifted Galaxies only. You may be knowing that the red-shifted Galaxies are only 40 percent. In the remaining 60 percent Galaxies in the Universe; there are "Blue shifted Galaxies + Quasars (also Blue shifted)" are 40 percent and final remaining 20 percent dont show any shift....

Please see the (4 th) Book on blue shifted Galaxies from Dynamic Universe Model blog, which is available for a free down load, for further details.....

Have a look at my paper also............

So Request you to reconsider with this fundamental data.

Best Regards

=snp. gupta

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Author Steve Agnew replied on Feb. 18, 2017 @ 19:05 GMT
Since I am not an astronomer, I leave interpretations of galaxy red shifts to those who do the observations. I am a spectroscopist, though, and so do know how to interpret spectra. You have taken the red shift spectral data of hundreds of thousands of galaxies and reinterpreted spectral red shifts as blue shifts.

I have looked at the same dataset and see the red shift spectra as very good spectral information. However, my expanding force and shrinking mass aethertime universe does posit a different reason for the spectral red shifts. Denying the large body of evidence for spectral redshifts of increasingly distant galaxies seems futile to me.

Measurements are key to making sense out of the observer-source quantum bond and the measurements of galaxy spectra are how science makes sense out of the universe. Since the SDSS redshift spectra data is very certain, there is no reason to change that view.




basudeba mishra wrote on Feb. 16, 2017 @ 14:54 GMT
Dear Sir,

You have made a brilliant analysis using modern views. But can we go a little out of box and analyze the facts?

What is the fundamental difference between classical physics and quantum physics? It is basically the motions of the collective versus the individual. In classical physics, the bonding of quantum particles makes the interaction non-linear. In case of quantum...

view entire post


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Author Steve Agnew replied on Feb. 18, 2017 @ 17:43 GMT
Your comments are quite detailed and well appreciated. Your questions seem to have more classical than quantum bias and it is certainly true that the chaos of classical noise usually overwhelms any of the effects of quantum phase noise, even for science.

You mention in particular the without the hidden knowledge of an initial condition, prediction of action is of course impossible. However, this is a distinctly classical view that presumes that all causes are in principle knowable. There are quantum causes that are not knowable and that means there are things about the universe in which we must simply believe.

The double slit experiment represents one of many examples of how quantum phase noise determines the path of either a photon, electron, or indeed any particle. Recent experiments have actually shown that even large molecules show interference effects where a single molecule interferes with itself. In other words, a single particle's many possible futures represent uncertain paths and no single path is knowable.

The one big hole in mainstream science is the lack of an acceptable quantum gravity. By supposing an inherent role for quantum decoherence, aethertime posits just such a quantum gravity and that is the basis of the entropy flow noted in this essay.



basudeba mishra replied on Feb. 19, 2017 @ 23:54 GMT
Dear Sir,

We find similar echoes in your reply with our views. We have also made distinctions between classical and quantum aspects. Majority people accept that these are different. But are they really different? Every micro phenomena has a macro equivalent. In 2003, we told Leggett about this. Our inability to know does not change the rule of Nature. Just like hydrogen and oxygen have properties different from water, micro world shows different behavior from macro world. But it is not random - there is order behind such coupling. Hence, theoretically, it is knowable. Can you please list a few quantum causes that are not knowable?

Regarding the double slit experiment, when you say “even large molecules show interference effects where a single molecule interferes with itself”, are you not proving my statement – the macro world is a composite of the micro world?

When you say: “a single particle's many possible futures represent uncertain paths and no single path is knowable”, are you not expressing our inability to know? The same initial conditions will lead to the same final outcome – the same future. If we accept that it has a possibility to lead to different futures, can we have science at all? All equations will have different solutions, which cannot be known? We agree that we are talking against mainstream science. But are we wrong? Should we accept majority view without proper analysis? Is majority always right?

Regards,

basudeba

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Author Steve Agnew replied on Feb. 20, 2017 @ 18:43 GMT
...of course, what I meant is that any particle path is not precisely knowable, but that does not mean that we do not know anything about the path. It simply means that there are limits to what we can know.

It also means that given precisely the same initial conditions, a similar but not exactly the same future occurs. Thus, science works just fine, but the quantum uncertainty principle does limit the knowledge of science and so that means that quantum phase noise is different from the chaos of classical noise.

The Schrodinger equation only admits probabilistic solutions, not the determinate solutions of the Hamilton-Jacobi action equation of gravity and relativity. However, there is a quantum Hamilton-Jacobi action equation that describes the determinism of gravity's relativity as well and the probability of quantum charge.




basudeba mishra wrote on Feb. 17, 2017 @ 02:14 GMT
Dear Sir,

As we understand, entropy is a measure of disorder in a system, whereas information is a measure of order in the system. Thus, entropy is not unidirectional. Negantropy or negative entropy is already known, though we do not fully agree with that interpretation – we believe in reversible cycles of time. You also talk of two entropies, though reversible in a different way. It is...

view entire post


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Author Steve Agnew replied on Feb. 18, 2017 @ 18:17 GMT
You offer once again the classical notion that the future is solely determined by knowable causes. However, quantum phase noise represents a cause that is not knowable and that is the point of my essay.

You also note that there are some questions about universe expansion and my essay is based on a shrinking matter and expanding action universe. Therefore, the fact that the Andromeda galaxy...

view entire post





basudeba mishra wrote on Feb. 17, 2017 @ 03:08 GMT
Dear Sir,

You have brought in a very important aspect involving ATP etc. which we wish you could have elaborated. The same mechanism that energizes the sodium-potassium pump also energizes the senses to receive and send external impulses to the brain.

The nervous system uses electrical and chemical means to help all parts of the body to communicate with each other. The brain and...

view entire post


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Author Steve Agnew replied on Feb. 18, 2017 @ 18:42 GMT
Neural action potentials are the chemical ion pulses that excite and inhibit action for many organisms including, of course, human consciousness. What truly surprised me was that quantum gravity would play any role at all in neural action. However, it is not really quantum gravity per se, it is rather the underlying aether exchange that defines all quantum action.

The action of ATP provides the basic energy for all of life and that includes neural life. The core concept of neural action is that a pulse-echo neural pair forms a particle of aware matter just like two atoms as observer and source form a transient bond by exchanging a photon. But there is both phase and amplitude information in a photon exchange and that is true for a neural exchange as well.

Mainstream science presumes that neural action of ion charge phase decay is much too fast for any quantum neural effects like interference or entanglement. However, with quantum aether, this statement is no longer true. While it is true that the phase decay of quantum charge is very fast for neurons, the phase decay of a neural pulse-echo pair is what defines each moment of thought.

In other words, the current loop of a neural pair results in a magnetic field that couples aware matter particles as a quantum aether into moments of thought. Science measures these neural couplings as the EEG spectra of consciousness, but there is not a theory of the mind that yet understands what EEG spectra really mean.

Once again, thanks for your thoughtful comments.



basudeba mishra replied on Feb. 23, 2017 @ 00:57 GMT
Dear Sir,

Modern scientists bring in many imaginary concepts without properly understanding it. One is extra-dimensions, which is used for over a century, even though it has never been observed. In our paper we have proved all modern notions in this regard as wrong and given physical explanations of 10 dimensions. Similarly, complex numbers, or quaternions, etc. are wrong mathematics, because square of i is treated as -1, whereas, mathematically, square of any positive or negative number is always positive. It can never be -1. After writing a beautiful essay, you are leading towards the trap. While other fundamental forces are intra-body forces, gravity is an inter-body polygamous force that acts throughout the universe. This implies that it cannot be quantized. Hence graviton will never be found. So why bring in absurd concepts like quantum gravity, when you can explain life mechanism without it? What you have missed is equating the process of observation with the observer. Life mechanism is different from consciousness. The same mechanism continues during life time, but ceases to operate at death. This implies the mechanism is not consciousness, but only a process. We can observe the same process in all objects, except that there is freewill in conscious beings. So your search should be directed towards freewill and consciousness – not quantum gravity.

Regards,

basudeba

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Author Steve Agnew replied on Feb. 24, 2017 @ 05:09 GMT
Obviously you have thought a lot about quantum physics and that I like. You mention complex numbers and then disparage them, but complex numbers are just a convenient way to keep track of quantum phase coherence.

So using the Euler method, sqrt(-1) is just a phase shift of pi and so what is the big deal? My quantavangelism is to make both gravity and charge quantum aether and so far, that...

view entire post





Jonathan J. Dickau wrote on Feb. 17, 2017 @ 22:30 GMT
Interesting essay Steve...

I like the way you contrast the effects of classical and quantum noise. In any confined sample of a gas, at room temperature, we note the increase of thermodynamic entropy and a co-existence of quantum and classical chaos. I have wondered if whether the formulation of entropy involving microstates is inherently quantum mechanical - given its dependency on n, the number of gas molecules - or is it just statistical mechanics? I think we see both a superposition of states, and the presence of alternate paths, so it gets complicated. You might want to check out J. Miguel Rubi, as his work offers some interesting insights.

I examined a question related to the decoherence issues you bring up, for my presentation at FFP10. I thought that perhaps QM non-locality and Thermodynamic Entropy might have a common basis. Erich Joos was pretty emphatic in correspondence that decoherence is not dissipation, and it would appear that you take the view it contributes to self-organizing dynamics instead of disorder; is this correct? Finally; I see some connection of your work with the Continuous Spontaneous Localization folks. I had some correspondence years ago with Philip Pearle, regarding Statevector Reduction. But it would appear that you are saying the wavefunction collapse brings order out of chaos. Care to comment?

All the Best,

Jonathan

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Author Steve Agnew replied on Feb. 18, 2017 @ 22:21 GMT
What a really nice comment...indeed, it would appear that wavefunction collapse brings order out of chaos, but it is important to stipulate: When quantum phase noise drives wavefunction collapse, that is distinct from the wavefunction collapes driven by the noise of classical chaos.

Of course, an isolated compressed gas does not change classical entropy unless heat or mass exchanges with...

view entire post





Peter Jackson wrote on Feb. 21, 2017 @ 17:26 GMT
Hi Steve, Good essay.

As we tend to come at things from different angles I was pleasantly surprised about how much I was fundamentally in agreement with. In particular I agree your P4 recycling description as very consistent with my published paper on the subject, identifying a pattern reproduced at CMB scale so extending to the universe.

But of course scores anyway shouldn't be based on 'agreement with' content, and we do need all disparate viewpoints. Yours was well written, organized and argued so should be far higher than it presently is.

I hope you may also enjoy reading mine and look forward to your response. In particular I wonder if your 'quantum phase noise' is as similar as I suspect to the squared sine curve distribution I show can be derived classically.

Very best of luck

Peter

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Author Steve Agnew replied on Feb. 22, 2017 @ 12:57 GMT
Thanks. I have really been encouraging a null vote even though I appreciate thoughtful comments. I do not know how to rate the very different notions in all of the essays so I do no bother to.

I do differentiate between classical and quantum with the notion of quantum phase noise. Although there are many ways to generate the chaos of classical noise, quantum phase noise shows superposition, entanglement, and interference. Classical noise does not show these effects.



Peter Jackson replied on Feb. 22, 2017 @ 22:35 GMT
Steve,

If you check the scoring criteria they exclude rating 'notions' or whether or not you like or agree with actual content. It seems most people have (again) entirely missed the point on that! That should make valid scoring a lot easier.

Thanks for confirming my understanding of your QFN. I asked because my essay describes a logical Classical explanation for each of the effects you describe, all from the very simplest mechanism we know; a spinning sphere. It's too important and 'simple' (elephant in the room) for most here to even 'see' but I did have you marked down as one who may.

I hope you get a chance to read it as I'd value you thoughts.

Very Best

Peter

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Author Steve Agnew replied on Feb. 23, 2017 @ 04:33 GMT
I must admit that I do like many aspects of the DFM approach...but quantum stuff does trump classical stuff and so quantum owns the issue today. Maybe that will change, but right not, quantum owns the day...




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