If you are aware of an interesting new academic paper (that has been published in a peer-reviewed journal or has appeared on the arXiv), a conference talk (at an official professional scientific meeting), an external blog post (by a professional scientist) or a news item (in the mainstream news media), which you think might make an interesting topic for an FQXi blog post, then please contact us at forums@fqxi.org with a link to the original source and a sentence about why you think that the work is worthy of discussion. Please note that we receive many such suggestions and while we endeavour to respond to them, we may not be able to reply to all suggestions.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Please also note that we do not accept unsolicited posts and we cannot review, or open new threads for, unsolicited articles or papers. Requests to review or post such materials will not be answered. If you have your own novel physics theory or model, which you would like to post for further discussion among then FQXi community, then please add them directly to the "Alternative Models of Reality" thread, or to the "Alternative Models of Cosmology" thread. Thank you.

Contests Home

Current Essay Contest

Previous Contests

**Wandering Towards a Goal**

How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?

*December 2, 2016 to March 3, 2017*

Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fnd.

read/discuss

**Trick or Truth: The Mysterious Connection Between Physics and Mathematics**

*Contest Partners: Nanotronics Imaging, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, and The John Templeton Foundation*

Media Partner: Scientific American

read/discuss • winners

**How Should Humanity Steer the Future?**

*January 9, 2014 - August 31, 2014*

*Contest Partners: Jaan Tallinn, The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, The John Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**It From Bit or Bit From It**

*March 25 - June 28, 2013*

*Contest Partners: The Gruber Foundation, J. Templeton Foundation, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**Questioning the Foundations**

Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?

*May 24 - August 31, 2012*

*Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation, SubMeta, and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**Is Reality Digital or Analog?**

*November 2010 - February 2011*

*Contest Partners: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Foundation and Scientific American*

read/discuss • winners

**What's Ultimately Possible in Physics?**

*May - October 2009*

*Contest Partners: Astrid and Bruce McWilliams*

read/discuss • winners

**The Nature of Time**

*August - December 2008*

read/discuss • winners

Current Essay Contest

Previous Contests

How can mindless mathematical laws give rise to aims and intention?

Contest Partner: The Peter and Patricia Gruber Fnd.

read/discuss

Media Partner: Scientific American

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

Which of Our Basic Physical Assumptions Are Wrong?

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

read/discuss • winners

Forum Home

Introduction

Terms of Use

RSS feed | RSS help

Introduction

Terms of Use

*Posts by the author are highlighted in orange; posts by FQXi Members are highlighted in blue.*

RSS feed | RSS help

RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

**Lewis Kramer**: *on* 1/19/17 at 9:29am UTC, wrote Health for women, got details on blue waffle information.

**anshu anu**: *on* 1/12/17 at 6:38am UTC, wrote happy valentines day

**Odessa Sabah**: *on* 1/5/17 at 12:50pm UTC, wrote Exquisitely professional thoughts. I merely hit upon this web site and...

**raju ramu**: *on* 12/28/16 at 6:16am UTC, wrote happy new year cards

**Bob Foster**: *on* 12/24/16 at 14:30pm UTC, wrote Not so bad...

**ardiansyah putra**: *on* 12/23/16 at 4:02am UTC, wrote Visited: Obat Osteoporosis Herbal @...

**christmas 2016**: *on* 12/8/16 at 20:26pm UTC, wrote Christmas Images

**Robby Asian**: *on* 11/28/16 at 12:21pm UTC, wrote Terrarium TV Download forget to mention this link. Visit for here

RECENT FORUM POSTS

**Steven Andresen**: "James I've just had a quick read of your message. I'm off in the boat for..."
*in* Alternative Models of...

**James Putnam**: "Steven, Working together on this project aimed toward explaining how a..."
*in* Alternative Models of...

**Lorraine Ford**: "This is my comment on H Chris Ransford’s essay “Where the Question..."
*in* FQXi Essay Contest 2016:...

**Ted Erikson**: "Is anyone aware of a geometric model or mechanism for "panpsychism"? In..."
*in* FQXi Essay Contest 2016:...

**micheal le**: "thuốc bổ thận là bệnh hiếm gặp ở nam giới, tuy nhiên..."
*in* New Podcast: A MICROSCOPE...

**Pentcho Valev**: "Einstein's Greatest Idiocy Einstein informs the gullible world that, as..."
*in* 2016: The Physics Year in...

**Joe Fisher**: "Dear Anonymous, If anybody wishes to know more about me, they are welcome..."
*in* Riding the Rogue Quantum...

**Anonymous**: "Oh i know about this genius guy he has this ukessays students review on him..."
*in* Riding the Rogue Quantum...

RECENT ARTICLES

*click titles to read articles*

**The Spacetime Revolutionary**

Carlo Rovelli describes how black holes may transition to "white holes," according to loop quantum gravity, a radical rewrite of fundamental physics.

**Riding the Rogue Quantum Waves**

Could giant sea swells help explain how the macroscopic world emerges from the quantum microworld? (Image credit: MIT News)

**Rescuing Reality**

A "retrocausal" rewrite of physics, in which influences from the future can affect the past, could solve some quantum quandaries—saving Einstein's view of reality along the way.

**Untangling Quantum Causation**

Figuring out if A causes B should help to write the rulebook for quantum physics.

**In Search of a Quantum Spacetime**

Finding the universe's wavefunction could be the key to understanding the emergence of reality.

RECENT FORUM POSTS

RECENT ARTICLES

Carlo Rovelli describes how black holes may transition to "white holes," according to loop quantum gravity, a radical rewrite of fundamental physics.

Could giant sea swells help explain how the macroscopic world emerges from the quantum microworld? (Image credit: MIT News)

A "retrocausal" rewrite of physics, in which influences from the future can affect the past, could solve some quantum quandaries—saving Einstein's view of reality along the way.

Figuring out if A causes B should help to write the rulebook for quantum physics.

Finding the universe's wavefunction could be the key to understanding the emergence of reality.

FQXi FORUM

January 21, 2017

CATEGORY:
The Nature of Time Essay Contest (2008)
[back]

TOPIC: Does time exist in quantum gravity? by Claus Kiefer [refresh]

TOPIC: Does time exist in quantum gravity? by Claus Kiefer [refresh]

Time is absolute in standard quantum theory and dynamical in general relativity. The combination of both theories into a theory of quantum gravity leads therefore to a `problem of time'. In my essay I shall investigate those consequences for the concept of time that may be drawn without a detailed knowledge of quantum gravity. The only assumptions are the experimentally supported universality of the linear structure of quantum theory and the recovery of general relativity in the classical limit. Among the consequences are the fundamental timelessness of quantum gravity, the approximate nature of a semiclassical time, and the correlation of entropy with the size of the Universe.

CLAUS KIEFER is a professor of theoretical physics at the University of Cologne, Germany. He has earned his PhD from Heidelberg University in 1988. He has held positions at the Universities of Heidelberg, Zurich, and Freiburg, and was an invited visitor to the Universities of Alberta, Bern, Cambridge, Montpellier, and others. His main interests are quantum gravity, cosmology, black holes, and the foundations of quantum theory. He has published several books including the monograph "Quantum Gravity" (second edition: Oxford 2007). He is a member of The Foundational Questions Institute since 2006.

A wonderful essay and beautifully written. (You must have lived for years in an English speaking country, ah, University of Alberta!)

I like that you hang your analysis on linear superposition and the requirement that GR be reached in the limit. Some comments.

(a) The simplest GR situation is the non rotating black hole. By saying "classical limit" do you mean to make a choice of coordinates? If so which? (I like Gullstrand-Painleve.)

(b) The presence of the imaginary unit i in Schroedinger's equation is sometimes said to go away when the situation is made relativistic with Dirac's gamma matrices. But I think David Hestenes' geometric arguments in that case apply and agree that it is significant; the imaginary unit does not go away.

Of your arxiv papers, I like most gr-qc/0406097, on the quasinormal modes of black holes. Lubos Motl proposed that "tripled Pauli statistics" as an explanation for this, you wrote "It could turn out, for example, that the entanglement of the (quantized) gravitational QNMs with the black-hole quantum state gives rise to the Bekenstein–Hawking entropy ..."

I wanted to point out that the mutually unbiased bases (MUBs) of the Pauli algebra are used by quantum information people to define the maximally entangled states (and also complementary states in the sense that knowing the results of one measurement destroys all information about the other). And that, sure enough, the maximum number of MUBs for the Pauli algebra is 3. This is just what is needed to triple Pauli statistics.

I like that you hang your analysis on linear superposition and the requirement that GR be reached in the limit. Some comments.

(a) The simplest GR situation is the non rotating black hole. By saying "classical limit" do you mean to make a choice of coordinates? If so which? (I like Gullstrand-Painleve.)

(b) The presence of the imaginary unit i in Schroedinger's equation is sometimes said to go away when the situation is made relativistic with Dirac's gamma matrices. But I think David Hestenes' geometric arguments in that case apply and agree that it is significant; the imaginary unit does not go away.

Of your arxiv papers, I like most gr-qc/0406097, on the quasinormal modes of black holes. Lubos Motl proposed that "tripled Pauli statistics" as an explanation for this, you wrote "It could turn out, for example, that the entanglement of the (quantized) gravitational QNMs with the black-hole quantum state gives rise to the Bekenstein–Hawking entropy ..."

I wanted to point out that the mutually unbiased bases (MUBs) of the Pauli algebra are used by quantum information people to define the maximally entangled states (and also complementary states in the sense that knowing the results of one measurement destroys all information about the other). And that, sure enough, the maximum number of MUBs for the Pauli algebra is 3. This is just what is needed to triple Pauli statistics.

Dear Dr. keifer,

i read the essay as an experimentalist and found your presentation logical. describing nature is a difficult job, as we individually have our background bias. i feel that concepts and precepts that we happen to choose initially more or less decide what outcome of results we will get.Time invariance and reversability are important in Physics. Thus linearity in time is important. However, we also from the conjugative nature of time with energy that only distortion in time results in energy release, as also distortion in space results in creation of mass. Universe to begin with must have had such space-time distortions. As creations more or less stabilised and subsequently just evolved further, we had a period of steady state. Thus, both change and conservation are the features of the Universe. Chaos has lead to the randomness of the physical processes on a time averaged scale. Order contains chaos but not vice-versa. Thus, somewhere behind the probabilistic considerations of the physical phenomenon lies an unknown order! The non-physical concept of ' consciousness ' appears to arise in the horizon as human behaviour is not entirely governed by physical features. thus, we as observer or cognizer of the process, start invoking this aspect. Duality of quantum mechanics itself provides the basic resistance to approach the Truth. Thus, the later remains a relative quantity in sciences. Measurements restrict science. How to solve such dellima!

attachments: 450pxSocrates_Louvre.jpg

i read the essay as an experimentalist and found your presentation logical. describing nature is a difficult job, as we individually have our background bias. i feel that concepts and precepts that we happen to choose initially more or less decide what outcome of results we will get.Time invariance and reversability are important in Physics. Thus linearity in time is important. However, we also from the conjugative nature of time with energy that only distortion in time results in energy release, as also distortion in space results in creation of mass. Universe to begin with must have had such space-time distortions. As creations more or less stabilised and subsequently just evolved further, we had a period of steady state. Thus, both change and conservation are the features of the Universe. Chaos has lead to the randomness of the physical processes on a time averaged scale. Order contains chaos but not vice-versa. Thus, somewhere behind the probabilistic considerations of the physical phenomenon lies an unknown order! The non-physical concept of ' consciousness ' appears to arise in the horizon as human behaviour is not entirely governed by physical features. thus, we as observer or cognizer of the process, start invoking this aspect. Duality of quantum mechanics itself provides the basic resistance to approach the Truth. Thus, the later remains a relative quantity in sciences. Measurements restrict science. How to solve such dellima!

What is the Source of the Universe ?

===========================.

In the book “Evolution of Physics” Einstein and Infeld wrote:

“ We have the laws, but we are not aware what the body

of reference system they belong to, and all our physical

construction appears erected on sand ”.

They are right. Why?

Because :

The Universe ( as...

view entire post

===========================.

In the book “Evolution of Physics” Einstein and Infeld wrote:

“ We have the laws, but we are not aware what the body

of reference system they belong to, and all our physical

construction appears erected on sand ”.

They are right. Why?

Because :

The Universe ( as...

view entire post

Time and Quantum of Light. / My opinion./

Can Time Exist Without Matter?

1.

According to Newton the answer is “ Yes”.

2.

According to SRT and GRT the answer is “ No”.

3.

Who is right? Who is wrong?

What is the resolution of this apparent paradox?

===========================..

There are two kinds of...

view entire post

Can Time Exist Without Matter?

1.

According to Newton the answer is “ Yes”.

2.

According to SRT and GRT the answer is “ No”.

3.

Who is right? Who is wrong?

What is the resolution of this apparent paradox?

===========================..

There are two kinds of...

view entire post

attachments: 450pxSocrates_Louvre.jpg

Sorry, the last word in my posting 'dilemma' that was wrongly spelled!

It seems to me this essay is simply a rehash of the same ideas as those of Carlo Rovelli (see his essay here earlier), Julian Barbour and others, namely that if the Wheeler-DeWitt equation holds, then time is illusory in a very real sense. But does the Wheeler-DeWitt equation holds in reality, at least at scales larger than the Planck length, as the author claimed? Unfortunately, there's no experimental evidence one way or another, so the author's claim of the Wheeler-DeWitt equation being "the most reliable equation of quantum gravity,

even if it is not the most fundamental one", must be taken with a large grain of salt. The unfortunate fact is that despite decades of research, quantum gravity is still a purely theoretical research with little or no connection to empirical evidence, and even its internal consistency cannot be demonstrated convincingly, so while researchers may have come up with formalisms and theories that are beautiful and elegant as mathematical theories, none of these theories can claim to be closer to reality than any other. It seems to me a bit premature to dictate the physical properties of Time using any of these untested theories.

even if it is not the most fundamental one", must be taken with a large grain of salt. The unfortunate fact is that despite decades of research, quantum gravity is still a purely theoretical research with little or no connection to empirical evidence, and even its internal consistency cannot be demonstrated convincingly, so while researchers may have come up with formalisms and theories that are beautiful and elegant as mathematical theories, none of these theories can claim to be closer to reality than any other. It seems to me a bit premature to dictate the physical properties of Time using any of these untested theories.

Quantum Gravity + Time = $$$$$

Do a search at NSF on "time quantum gravity."

http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/piSearch.do;jsessionid=7

F7E1A09E64B392775A7855BA8211E51?SearchType=piSearch&page=1&Q

ueryText=time+quantum+gravity&PIFirstName=&PILastName=&PIIns

titution=&PIState=&PIZip=&PICountry=&Search=Search#results

Yo

u will see that using quantum gravity to understand time is nothing new.

The research has received millions upon millions of dollars, and yet has produced abosolutely nothing but for aging quantum gravity regimes. NSF is just the tip of the iceberg.

All these millions upon millions, and yet, there is no:

1) graviton

2) consistent theory of quantum gravity, nor anything even close

3) any reason to go on

And yet, as the purpose of fqxi is generally to

1) fund well-funded, institutionalized crackpottery &

2) recreate physics in old physicists' image,

I imagine any essay that mentions time and quantum gravity will receive an award or two from the ruling pseudo-physicists.

Quantum Gravity + Time = $$$$$

Do a search at NSF on "time quantum gravity."

http://nsf.gov/awardsearch/piSearch.do;jsessionid=7

F7E1A09E64B392775A7855BA8211E51?SearchType=piSearch&page=1&Q

ueryText=time+quantum+gravity&PIFirstName=&PILastName=&PIIns

titution=&PIState=&PIZip=&PICountry=&Search=Search#results

Yo

u will see that using quantum gravity to understand time is nothing new.

The research has received millions upon millions of dollars, and yet has produced abosolutely nothing but for aging quantum gravity regimes. NSF is just the tip of the iceberg.

All these millions upon millions, and yet, there is no:

1) graviton

2) consistent theory of quantum gravity, nor anything even close

3) any reason to go on

And yet, as the purpose of fqxi is generally to

1) fund well-funded, institutionalized crackpottery &

2) recreate physics in old physicists' image,

I imagine any essay that mentions time and quantum gravity will receive an award or two from the ruling pseudo-physicists.

Quantum Gravity + Time = $$$$$

Dear Dr. Kiefer,

the canonical quantization of General Relativity certainly leads to a loss of time. Canonical quantization and Schrödinger equation however rely on Newtonin notion of time. Hence it is not too surprising that 4-D general coordinate invariance paradoxically leads to the disappearence of time in general relativity.

I think that 4-D general coordinate invariance (no loss of time!) must be the starting point and dictate the formalism. For instance, my own work originated as a modification of general relativity based on the assumption that space-times are 4-D surfaces in certain higher dimensional space possessing the symmetries of empty Minkowski space and explaining standard model symmetries in terms of isometries and holonomies.

In this framework time is not lost and general coordinate invariance has amazingly strong and unexpectred consequences and leads to a formulation of quantum theory using the counterpart of super-space of Wheeler having strong resemblances to the loop spaces appearing in string models (in the sense that it decomposes to a union of infinite-D symmetric spaces with Kahler metric possessing maximal isometry group).

Thank you for a nice essay,

Matti Pitkanen

the canonical quantization of General Relativity certainly leads to a loss of time. Canonical quantization and Schrödinger equation however rely on Newtonin notion of time. Hence it is not too surprising that 4-D general coordinate invariance paradoxically leads to the disappearence of time in general relativity.

I think that 4-D general coordinate invariance (no loss of time!) must be the starting point and dictate the formalism. For instance, my own work originated as a modification of general relativity based on the assumption that space-times are 4-D surfaces in certain higher dimensional space possessing the symmetries of empty Minkowski space and explaining standard model symmetries in terms of isometries and holonomies.

In this framework time is not lost and general coordinate invariance has amazingly strong and unexpectred consequences and leads to a formulation of quantum theory using the counterpart of super-space of Wheeler having strong resemblances to the loop spaces appearing in string models (in the sense that it decomposes to a union of infinite-D symmetric spaces with Kahler metric possessing maximal isometry group).

Thank you for a nice essay,

Matti Pitkanen

- Time is absolute in Quanta Physics that is to say 'algebraic', but in Einstein's Theories too. Algebraic time, wether it is vectors or arcs of time is always 'absolute'.

- Aristotle in his 'Physics' (III) does explain that there seem to be no reason to deduce a discontinuous Time from Natural phenomenon of Time. Infinity postulate in 'distance', infinity postulate in 'quantity' AND infinity postulate in Time too are just 'approximations' for Aristotle. So the idea of 'non discontinuous' Time is not new.

- Aristotle in his 'Physics' (III) does explain that there seem to be no reason to deduce a discontinuous Time from Natural phenomenon of Time. Infinity postulate in 'distance', infinity postulate in 'quantity' AND infinity postulate in Time too are just 'approximations' for Aristotle. So the idea of 'non discontinuous' Time is not new.

Hello Claus,

Thanks for the paper "Does time exist in quantum gravity?"!

But might not a better title be, "Does quantum gavity exist in time?"

I know it is fashionable to make the real unreal, and the unreal real, in the realm of fundraising, but after awhile money gets boring, and a man's soul yearns for truth, beauty, and physics!

I would have to agree with Ming, "It...

view entire post

Thanks for the paper "Does time exist in quantum gravity?"!

But might not a better title be, "Does quantum gavity exist in time?"

I know it is fashionable to make the real unreal, and the unreal real, in the realm of fundraising, but after awhile money gets boring, and a man's soul yearns for truth, beauty, and physics!

I would have to agree with Ming, "It...

view entire post

What is true in this quoting of F. Dyson is that theoretical Science is dangerous. In my opinion, the LHC Experience is the next coming soon big Scandal in Science: nothing will be discovered and how can you justify to spend billions for nothing?

One can observe that the Scientists who are working on this experience are afraid by the scandal themselves because they try to avoid it already, explaining that if the 'Higgs Boson' does not exist, no matter, the experience would have been a good experience although!!

But what is wrong in Dyson's explanation is that there are two different reasonings. 'Quanta Physics' and Einstein's Theory are both based on the same Idea of Time, seen as an 'event' that one can measure. And obviously simultaneity, events, instants, speed, coincidence can only be measured AFTER and not BEFORE. If Time-Space is relative 'a posteriory', one need before a non-relative Space to measure the simultaneity.

I want just add this: Leon Lederman recently in a French-TV documentary was linking beauty and symmetry: this is a very special idea of 'beauty' coming from music; no human beautiful face or body is symmetric. The sphere is not symmetric too.

One can observe that the Scientists who are working on this experience are afraid by the scandal themselves because they try to avoid it already, explaining that if the 'Higgs Boson' does not exist, no matter, the experience would have been a good experience although!!

But what is wrong in Dyson's explanation is that there are two different reasonings. 'Quanta Physics' and Einstein's Theory are both based on the same Idea of Time, seen as an 'event' that one can measure. And obviously simultaneity, events, instants, speed, coincidence can only be measured AFTER and not BEFORE. If Time-Space is relative 'a posteriory', one need before a non-relative Space to measure the simultaneity.

I want just add this: Leon Lederman recently in a French-TV documentary was linking beauty and symmetry: this is a very special idea of 'beauty' coming from music; no human beautiful face or body is symmetric. The sphere is not symmetric too.

FLR,

Negative results are meaningful. Would you think that money spent on the Michelson-Morley experiment was wasted? Without that negative result, no one would give a second thought to special relativity.

Tom

Negative results are meaningful. Would you think that money spent on the Michelson-Morley experiment was wasted? Without that negative result, no one would give a second thought to special relativity.

Tom

In ‘Special Relativity’, Einstein is translating the discrete motion of a train (on a railway that looks like a scale) in a speed continuous ratio.

One can observe here that ‘Time’ is in the ‘arrow’ or ‘vector’ of speed, in other words that Time is the reference of the translation in algebraic ‘ratio’, which is always ‘a posteriori’ (See Zeno’s cheap experience with a tortoise and a famous athlete.)

In this mood, Achilles cannot rejoin the tortoise and ‘a posteriori’ is becoming ‘a priori’ that is becoming ‘a posteriori’ at its turn on a binary rythm until the ‘Absolute’ or the ‘Infinity’ (Same principle in ‘Quanta physics’ based on statistics and probability theories).

So the paralogism, either the ‘Special Relativity’ paralogism –two speed vectors for one train-, or the paralogism of Michelson and Morley –limited/absolute speed of light- are possible in ‘cognition’ or in an ‘a posteriory’ Time-reference. The question is: does cognition comes from Matter or Matter from Algebra?

Because the Paralogism of Scientists that are driving the ‘LHC experience’ is obviously the same kind of paradox: splitting the particle in two come from the reflexion, especially the waves coming from trigonometry and ‘surfacing’.

(To answer T. Ray I did not say negative results are not meaningful but that Scientists who do doubt of the positive result of their tree billion experience before it started is meaningful too.)

One can observe here that ‘Time’ is in the ‘arrow’ or ‘vector’ of speed, in other words that Time is the reference of the translation in algebraic ‘ratio’, which is always ‘a posteriori’ (See Zeno’s cheap experience with a tortoise and a famous athlete.)

In this mood, Achilles cannot rejoin the tortoise and ‘a posteriori’ is becoming ‘a priori’ that is becoming ‘a posteriori’ at its turn on a binary rythm until the ‘Absolute’ or the ‘Infinity’ (Same principle in ‘Quanta physics’ based on statistics and probability theories).

So the paralogism, either the ‘Special Relativity’ paralogism –two speed vectors for one train-, or the paralogism of Michelson and Morley –limited/absolute speed of light- are possible in ‘cognition’ or in an ‘a posteriory’ Time-reference. The question is: does cognition comes from Matter or Matter from Algebra?

Because the Paralogism of Scientists that are driving the ‘LHC experience’ is obviously the same kind of paradox: splitting the particle in two come from the reflexion, especially the waves coming from trigonometry and ‘surfacing’.

(To answer T. Ray I did not say negative results are not meaningful but that Scientists who do doubt of the positive result of their tree billion experience before it started is meaningful too.)

Just finished reading this essay a second time, and I love it. With few words, Dr. Kiefer is able to reduce the argument to distinct foundational principles (universality and superposition principle of quantum theory), and comes to very intriguing conclusions: The direction of time is defined by the direction of increasing (!) entanglement; and decoherence results in classical appearance of nature. This is quite surprising, to understand the quantum arrow of time this way (as compared to the more traditional irreversibility of observation). IMHO, achieving this simplicity of argument gives the conclusions and their interpretation a lot of weight. I'll be sure to read it again.

This is not 'intriguing'. The entanglement in non-observable phenomenons is the result of an 'ideology of matter'. Water and wave? No, just water.

There is no physical reason to change Space in Time or Time in Space but only a rational one. 'Algebraic geometry' is subjectivity and subjectivity allows every kind of illusion such as travelling in the Future, the Past, or standing on a Present dot.

Why do we think now that motion is real Dynamics? This is the good but awkward question.

There is no physical reason to change Space in Time or Time in Space but only a rational one. 'Algebraic geometry' is subjectivity and subjectivity allows every kind of illusion such as travelling in the Future, the Past, or standing on a Present dot.

Why do we think now that motion is real Dynamics? This is the good but awkward question.

Dear Claus,

Really nice presentation of the problems of time in Quantum Gravity, and ingenious solution for regaining it. Congratulations!

Best regards,

Cristi Stoica

“Flowing with a Frozen River”,

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/322

Really nice presentation of the problems of time in Quantum Gravity, and ingenious solution for regaining it. Congratulations!

Best regards,

Cristi Stoica

“Flowing with a Frozen River”,

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/322

Is this a competition or a wedding-party?

Dear Klaus,

I can not see how is clock time related to the directional derivative you define in Eq- 4 and 5. Indeed, you can not forget that time is defined by means of macroscopic clocks, and clocks are not able to define any space derivative.

I believe it is your charge to demonstrate how clock (macroscopic) time is connected to (microscopic) directional derivative. Please clarify this point in order to restore the meaning of the paper.

John

I can not see how is clock time related to the directional derivative you define in Eq- 4 and 5. Indeed, you can not forget that time is defined by means of macroscopic clocks, and clocks are not able to define any space derivative.

I believe it is your charge to demonstrate how clock (macroscopic) time is connected to (microscopic) directional derivative. Please clarify this point in order to restore the meaning of the paper.

John

Hi Claus,

You wrote: "Time emerges from the separation into two different subsystems: one subsystem (here: the gravitational part) defines the time with respect to which the other subsystem (here: the non-gravitational part) evolves."[footnote 2]

Footnote 2: "More precisely, some of the gravitational degrees of freedom can also remain quantum, while some of the non-gravitational variables can be macroscopic and enter the definition of time."

May I ask you to elaborate on the GR dictum -- 'matter tells spacetime how to curve and spacetime tells matter where to go' -- in the framework of your ideas, as clarified in footnote 2. Thank you very much in advance.

As to the "problem of time", check out a simple Gedankenexperiment in Wikipedia and its discussion here.

Regards,

Dimi

You wrote: "Time emerges from the separation into two different subsystems: one subsystem (here: the gravitational part) defines the time with respect to which the other subsystem (here: the non-gravitational part) evolves."[footnote 2]

Footnote 2: "More precisely, some of the gravitational degrees of freedom can also remain quantum, while some of the non-gravitational variables can be macroscopic and enter the definition of time."

May I ask you to elaborate on the GR dictum -- 'matter tells spacetime how to curve and spacetime tells matter where to go' -- in the framework of your ideas, as clarified in footnote 2. Thank you very much in advance.

As to the "problem of time", check out a simple Gedankenexperiment in Wikipedia and its discussion here.

Regards,

Dimi

Dear Professor Kiefer,

While you very convincingly explained your problem with time, thank you, I am worried by your reference to Schroedinger. You gave Ann. Phys. VI 384, 489-527 (1926). Is this correct?

If I recall correctly, I found that Schroedinger wrote the famous equation in his 4th Mitteilung Quantisierung als Eigenwertproblem in Ann. Phys. (1926), not in vol. 384 but already in vol. 81 (4), 109-172.

In order to make sure we refer to the same text, I quote what he wrote below the equation I refer to: "... one may

consider the real part of psi the real wave function, if necessary."

Notice, according to 100 years of Planck's Quantum by Duck and Sudarshan, p. 176, Heisenberg wrote in Z. Phys. 33, 879 (1925): Re{A(n,n-alpha)exp(i omega(n,n-alpha)t}. The authors added a note: The erroneous 'Re' - real part - immediately vanished from Heisenberg's work.

Everybody knows, the also real squared magnitude psi psi* has been preferred instead of the real part. Can you tell me please who introduced this twist from real part to magnitude?

What about your effort to reestablish an arrow of time, do you consider it enough to have a directed time, and do you share Einstein's belief that there is no difference between past and future?

Sincerely,

Eckard Blumschein

While you very convincingly explained your problem with time, thank you, I am worried by your reference to Schroedinger. You gave Ann. Phys. VI 384, 489-527 (1926). Is this correct?

If I recall correctly, I found that Schroedinger wrote the famous equation in his 4th Mitteilung Quantisierung als Eigenwertproblem in Ann. Phys. (1926), not in vol. 384 but already in vol. 81 (4), 109-172.

In order to make sure we refer to the same text, I quote what he wrote below the equation I refer to: "... one may

consider the real part of psi the real wave function, if necessary."

Notice, according to 100 years of Planck's Quantum by Duck and Sudarshan, p. 176, Heisenberg wrote in Z. Phys. 33, 879 (1925): Re{A(n,n-alpha)exp(i omega(n,n-alpha)t}. The authors added a note: The erroneous 'Re' - real part - immediately vanished from Heisenberg's work.

Everybody knows, the also real squared magnitude psi psi* has been preferred instead of the real part. Can you tell me please who introduced this twist from real part to magnitude?

What about your effort to reestablish an arrow of time, do you consider it enough to have a directed time, and do you share Einstein's belief that there is no difference between past and future?

Sincerely,

Eckard Blumschein

Hi Claus,

I very much hope to hear from you. To explain my request posted on Dec. 3, 2008 @ 11:47 GMT, may I quote from your essay (p. 2): The Schrödinger equation (1) is, with respect to t, deterministic and time-reversal invariant. As was already emphasized by Wolfgang Pauli, the presence of both t and i are crucial for the probability interpretation of quantum mechanics, in particular for the conservation of probability in time."

But if we accept your belief that time emerges only as some “semiclassical time”, and is (p. 6) "only an approximate concept", how would you address the Hilbert space problem? In your words: "What is the appropriate inner product that encodes the probability interpretation and that is conserved in time?" (C. Kiefer, arXiv:gr-qc/9906100v1, p. 15)

I wonder if you can solve the Hilbert space problem with some “semiclassical time”, given your speculation that (Essay, p. 6): "... the Hilbert-space structure, too, is an approximate structure and that different mathematical structures are needed for full quantum gravity."

For if you can't solve the Hilbert space problem, your prerequisites from the Schrödinger equation (p. 2) may not be relevant at all, and you will have to start from scratch, by replacing the Hilbert-space structure with ... well, something else (perhaps "different mathematical structures", as you put it).

I believe Schrödinger provided a viable hint to this 'something else' in November 1950; check out 'Quantum Mechanics 101'.

Regards,

Dimi

I very much hope to hear from you. To explain my request posted on Dec. 3, 2008 @ 11:47 GMT, may I quote from your essay (p. 2): The Schrödinger equation (1) is, with respect to t, deterministic and time-reversal invariant. As was already emphasized by Wolfgang Pauli, the presence of both t and i are crucial for the probability interpretation of quantum mechanics, in particular for the conservation of probability in time."

But if we accept your belief that time emerges only as some “semiclassical time”, and is (p. 6) "only an approximate concept", how would you address the Hilbert space problem? In your words: "What is the appropriate inner product that encodes the probability interpretation and that is conserved in time?" (C. Kiefer, arXiv:gr-qc/9906100v1, p. 15)

I wonder if you can solve the Hilbert space problem with some “semiclassical time”, given your speculation that (Essay, p. 6): "... the Hilbert-space structure, too, is an approximate structure and that different mathematical structures are needed for full quantum gravity."

For if you can't solve the Hilbert space problem, your prerequisites from the Schrödinger equation (p. 2) may not be relevant at all, and you will have to start from scratch, by replacing the Hilbert-space structure with ... well, something else (perhaps "different mathematical structures", as you put it).

I believe Schrödinger provided a viable hint to this 'something else' in November 1950; check out 'Quantum Mechanics 101'.

Regards,

Dimi

Although I like your essay very much -- I think, particularly, that it is very clear and set at almost precisely the level requested -- I am reluctant to vote for it because I cannot see that it has any novelty. A novelty of clear presentation is perhaps worthwhile enough -- indeed sometimes more to be cherished than anything technical -- but is there something in your paper that has a technical novelty that you have not emphasized?

Like many established academics who have submitted essays, you have preferred not to reply to any comments. I would be grateful if you would reply briefly to this. I think your essay could have more fully described in what way it is novel. Academics who specialize in QG will of course know full well in what your essay is novel, but for someone who specializes in QFT it is not obvious.

Like many established academics who have submitted essays, you have preferred not to reply to any comments. I would be grateful if you would reply briefly to this. I think your essay could have more fully described in what way it is novel. Academics who specialize in QG will of course know full well in what your essay is novel, but for someone who specializes in QFT it is not obvious.

Godfather or the Engineer's Physics French R. Descartes is 'forgetting Time' in Ballistic Science for at least two reasons:

-Force of a burden on a string is the same two days after than two days before;

-Because Descartes knows too that 'Speed idea' cannot be cutted from Metaphysics and he does not think it is a good idea to put Metaphysics in an essay about Statics.

Contrarily Einstein and Poincaré decided to put Time again (H. Bergson too in Biology fighting against Descartes' method more frankly than Einstein.)

Today fluctuations in Algebraic Geometry between 'block Time' or 'Flow Time' or 'Vector Time', between two dimensions or n-dimensions are coming from this.

Obviously Descartes' Empiricism is too 'dry' for Einstein, Poincaré and Bergson. Their illusion is to think that the trigonometric wave is more fresh than Descartes' arrow although it is just a concave arrow (or a boomerang).

'Block Time' is just an arrangement between the arrow and the flow.

Worm is in the apple from the beginning because Descartes does not understand what some Scientists before him knew (Euclid for instance), i.e. that Time is the Frame of the Algebraic Geometry. Either you forget the Time AND the algebraic Geometry but you cannot split them as he did (and Rovelli on this fq(x)i forum after him).

After Descartes his followers Helmholtz or Beltrami, Riemann are not even aware that there is a difference between Geometry and Algebraic Geometry and that the difference is that there is no Time in Geometry.

Most of Euclid's laws have nothing to do with measurement or geolocalization as Riemann is ignoring it.

And the fight of Bergson, Einstein and Poincaré against Descartes is useless because they share the same paradox, they are catched in the same reference.

The only collision that the LHC experience can involve is the collision between real Physics and algebraic language.

-Force of a burden on a string is the same two days after than two days before;

-Because Descartes knows too that 'Speed idea' cannot be cutted from Metaphysics and he does not think it is a good idea to put Metaphysics in an essay about Statics.

Contrarily Einstein and Poincaré decided to put Time again (H. Bergson too in Biology fighting against Descartes' method more frankly than Einstein.)

Today fluctuations in Algebraic Geometry between 'block Time' or 'Flow Time' or 'Vector Time', between two dimensions or n-dimensions are coming from this.

Obviously Descartes' Empiricism is too 'dry' for Einstein, Poincaré and Bergson. Their illusion is to think that the trigonometric wave is more fresh than Descartes' arrow although it is just a concave arrow (or a boomerang).

'Block Time' is just an arrangement between the arrow and the flow.

Worm is in the apple from the beginning because Descartes does not understand what some Scientists before him knew (Euclid for instance), i.e. that Time is the Frame of the Algebraic Geometry. Either you forget the Time AND the algebraic Geometry but you cannot split them as he did (and Rovelli on this fq(x)i forum after him).

After Descartes his followers Helmholtz or Beltrami, Riemann are not even aware that there is a difference between Geometry and Algebraic Geometry and that the difference is that there is no Time in Geometry.

Most of Euclid's laws have nothing to do with measurement or geolocalization as Riemann is ignoring it.

And the fight of Bergson, Einstein and Poincaré against Descartes is useless because they share the same paradox, they are catched in the same reference.

The only collision that the LHC experience can involve is the collision between real Physics and algebraic language.

Response from the author

First of all, I would like to thank all persons who

have commented on my essay. In the following I shall briefly try

to respond on some of the questions and comments

in a collective way.

Since I have published in the past various papers on time in

quantum gravity, the question arose what is novel in my essay.

Firstly, the...

view entire post

First of all, I would like to thank all persons who

have commented on my essay. In the following I shall briefly try

to respond on some of the questions and comments

in a collective way.

Since I have published in the past various papers on time in

quantum gravity, the question arose what is novel in my essay.

Firstly, the...

view entire post

Dear DR. Klaus

for time tu understand Einstein and Buddha are needed.

Time exists in quantum gravity when we measure it.

Until time is not measured, time do not exist.

yours amrit

attachments: Time_Searching_of_Einstein_and_Buddha___Sorli__2009.doc

for time tu understand Einstein and Buddha are needed.

Time exists in quantum gravity when we measure it.

Until time is not measured, time do not exist.

yours amrit

attachments: Time_Searching_of_Einstein_and_Buddha___Sorli__2009.doc

Dear Claus,

You wrote (Dec. 23, 2008 @ 17:05 GMT) that you "want to advocate a novel perspective on the interpretation of the Wheeler-DeWitt equation and its timeless nature: being very conservative and imposing only two principles (universal validity of the Schr"odinger equation and the semiclassical correctness of Einstein's theory)..."

The first principle you decided to employ, the alleged "universal validity of the Schr"odinger equation", may be wrong, as I tried to argue since I read Ch. 10, 'Quantum gravity and the interpretation of quantum theory', in the first edition of your monograph "Quantum Gravity" (May 2004).

Please check out my essay 'Quantum Mechanics 101'; the link was in my posting from Dec. 11, 2008 @ 14:01 GMT above.

You also wrote (Dec. 23, 2008 @ 17:05 GMT): "In the quantum theory, on the other hand, spacetime has disappeared completely as a consequence of the uncertainty relations, ..."

I believe it is safe to say that, while quantum theory has been empirically established, there could be many *artifacts* from the "filter" we impose on the quantum realm with the 'spacetime of facts' of STR: please check out the KS Theorem in the essay on QM mentioned above.

If you disagree, please explain your arguments.

If you agree, please notice that the Hilbert space problem (C. Kiefer, Quantum geometrodynamics: whence, whither?", arXiv:0812.0295v1 [gr-qc]) may be solved along with the 'problem of time' en bloc , as it should be done.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Dimi

You wrote (Dec. 23, 2008 @ 17:05 GMT) that you "want to advocate a novel perspective on the interpretation of the Wheeler-DeWitt equation and its timeless nature: being very conservative and imposing only two principles (universal validity of the Schr"odinger equation and the semiclassical correctness of Einstein's theory)..."

The first principle you decided to employ, the alleged "universal validity of the Schr"odinger equation", may be wrong, as I tried to argue since I read Ch. 10, 'Quantum gravity and the interpretation of quantum theory', in the first edition of your monograph "Quantum Gravity" (May 2004).

Please check out my essay 'Quantum Mechanics 101'; the link was in my posting from Dec. 11, 2008 @ 14:01 GMT above.

You also wrote (Dec. 23, 2008 @ 17:05 GMT): "In the quantum theory, on the other hand, spacetime has disappeared completely as a consequence of the uncertainty relations, ..."

I believe it is safe to say that, while quantum theory has been empirically established, there could be many *artifacts* from the "filter" we impose on the quantum realm with the 'spacetime of facts' of STR: please check out the KS Theorem in the essay on QM mentioned above.

If you disagree, please explain your arguments.

If you agree, please notice that the Hilbert space problem (C. Kiefer, Quantum geometrodynamics: whence, whither?", arXiv:0812.0295v1 [gr-qc]) may be solved along with the 'problem of time' en bloc , as it should be done.

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Dimi

Welcome to David Fishwick Van and [url=http://www.davidfishwick.net/]minibus sales[/url] - theUK's fastest growing supplier of supplementary and reconditioned vans, minibuses and minicoaches.

We are No.1 in our greensward because of commitment to consumer service. When we pledge, we deliver. Our headquarters in Colne, Lancashire, and our Birmingham plot are stocked with hundreds of high point prominence lantern commercial vehicles including conversion vans, Mercedes, Volkswagen and Iveco. We are at the present time Europe's leading supplier of minibuses, many customised before our bespoke engineers in Manchester. David Fishwick offers irascible and affordable customised minibuses with a view schools, sports teams, community groups and close by authorities.

We father the largest selection of minibuses recompense sale and hand-me-down mini buses for salethe country. We also eat an huge stockpile of pick-up vans and motorhomes. In summing-up to selling uncharted vehicles frank improbable the putting out silhouette, we try not at home a top rank acquainted with minibus and other commercial vans. Our team of trained mechanics and mini tutor builders subjects each and every channel to a 200-point inspection and any peccadillo - structural, mechanical or cosmetic - is secure before leaving our garage facility. An all-embracing picking of manage parts is stocked on purlieus to escape any delays. Exclusively when we are fully satisfied inclination we man concluded the minibus or van keys to the fellow - that's the David Fishwick promise.

We are No.1 in our greensward because of commitment to consumer service. When we pledge, we deliver. Our headquarters in Colne, Lancashire, and our Birmingham plot are stocked with hundreds of high point prominence lantern commercial vehicles including conversion vans, Mercedes, Volkswagen and Iveco. We are at the present time Europe's leading supplier of minibuses, many customised before our bespoke engineers in Manchester. David Fishwick offers irascible and affordable customised minibuses with a view schools, sports teams, community groups and close by authorities.

We father the largest selection of minibuses recompense sale and hand-me-down mini buses for salethe country. We also eat an huge stockpile of pick-up vans and motorhomes. In summing-up to selling uncharted vehicles frank improbable the putting out silhouette, we try not at home a top rank acquainted with minibus and other commercial vans. Our team of trained mechanics and mini tutor builders subjects each and every channel to a 200-point inspection and any peccadillo - structural, mechanical or cosmetic - is secure before leaving our garage facility. An all-embracing picking of manage parts is stocked on purlieus to escape any delays. Exclusively when we are fully satisfied inclination we man concluded the minibus or van keys to the fellow - that's the David Fishwick promise.

Nothing against the article, but I disagree with a couple of points to some extenct. I’m probably a minority though, lol. Thanks for sharing.

perfect design thanks

This article gives the light in which we can observe the reality.

I absolutely adore reading your blog posts, the variety of writing is smashing.This blog as usual was educational, I have had to bookmark your site and subscribe to your feed in i feed. Your theme looks lovely.Thanks for sharing. Regards

Connections

The binding of existence

This is a story, built upon knowledge, intuition, and speculation. In the end, it is built upon some known theoretically successfully tested truths, and some unknowns conveyed in a formula that I consider trumps any objections – as we ponder the scope of existence. First we know of existence, by way of our self-awareness, coupled with scientific...

view entire post

The binding of existence

This is a story, built upon knowledge, intuition, and speculation. In the end, it is built upon some known theoretically successfully tested truths, and some unknowns conveyed in a formula that I consider trumps any objections – as we ponder the scope of existence. First we know of existence, by way of our self-awareness, coupled with scientific...

view entire post

[Sorry for triple post, something cuts my text into parts]

Hello,

I well am a complete ignorant in this field (as a number-theory mathematician, not a physicist), but I have some 'philosophical' questions regarding this matter:

Assuming general relativity holds, we know that there is no 'time', just event sequence ordering (causality).

Assuming quantum mechanics holds, we know that there is no 'event' without the act of observation, through which a concrete state emerges from probability distribution.

So.. if we speak about 'time', we speak about event sequence ordering, only if we have some events, only if we perform some observation.

I am pretty sure it makes quite no sense in physics, but here is my idea:

* Maybe inexistence of time parameter in Wheeler–DeWitt equation is coherent with the above.. in that direct observation of gravitons is not possible.

I might be wrong in so many ways with this primary-school understanding, so please explain it to me:

* How can time be defined without observation?

* Isn't event sequence ordering (causality) derived from event observation?

* Isn't time an emergent phenomenon caused by observation?

* Can't lack of time mean inability to observe something?

* Would the assumption that gravity can be observed only indirectly change the principles of QFT/QM?

I apologize for my ignorance.

Hello,

I well am a complete ignorant in this field (as a number-theory mathematician, not a physicist), but I have some 'philosophical' questions regarding this matter:

Assuming general relativity holds, we know that there is no 'time', just event sequence ordering (causality).

Assuming quantum mechanics holds, we know that there is no 'event' without the act of observation, through which a concrete state emerges from probability distribution.

So.. if we speak about 'time', we speak about event sequence ordering, only if we have some events, only if we perform some observation.

I am pretty sure it makes quite no sense in physics, but here is my idea:

* Maybe inexistence of time parameter in Wheeler–DeWitt equation is coherent with the above.. in that direct observation of gravitons is not possible.

I might be wrong in so many ways with this primary-school understanding, so please explain it to me:

* How can time be defined without observation?

* Isn't event sequence ordering (causality) derived from event observation?

* Isn't time an emergent phenomenon caused by observation?

* Can't lack of time mean inability to observe something?

* Would the assumption that gravity can be observed only indirectly change the principles of QFT/QM?

I apologize for my ignorance.

Russ,Jacek, time cannot occur without gravity and space.

I wanted to thank you for this excellent read!! I definitely loved every little bit of it. I have you bookmarked your site to check out the new stuff you post.

[URL="http://192-168-1.org/"]192.168.1.1[/URL]

192.168.1

.1

[URL=http://192-168-1.org/]192.168.1.1[/URL]

http://192-168

-1.org/

report post as inappropriate

[URL="http://192-168-1.org/"]192.168.1.1[/URL]

192.168.1

.1

[URL=http://192-168-1.org/]192.168.1.1[/URL]

http://192-168

-1.org/

report post as inappropriate

I haven’t any word to appreciate this post.....Really i am impressed from this post....the person who create this post it was a great human..thanks for shared this with us.

192.168.1.1

report post as inappropriate

192.168.1.1

report post as inappropriate

I would advise to find beste online gokkasten because they might provide the solution to this issue.

report post as inappropriate

report post as inappropriate

There is lots of interesting stuff to read i really like this. so you wanna get the best discount on web hosting from Godaddy coupons then you can get easily only Visit us thanks.

report post as inappropriate

report post as inappropriate

I havent any word to appreciate this post.....Really i am impressed from this post....the person who create this post it was a great human..thanks for shared this with us. usamm discount code

report post as inappropriate

report post as inappropriate

In order to fight with the need of free pokemon go coins we are deciding to launch a webite.

report post as inappropriate

report post as inappropriate

Make sure to take a look at the bottom of the Love your version of this pattern!

Make sure to take a look at the bottom of the homepage.

.Check out the most dangerous disease blue waffle you mostly find in women and partially in men

where it is a

would you rather questions the movie watching online program

movie hd

.It is informative blog.

powerplan is important for all.I think this is the best site amongst of above sites. Great tips and very easy to understand.I love volunteering here.

new year 2017

Happy diwali

report post as inappropriate

Make sure to take a look at the bottom of the homepage.

.Check out the most dangerous disease blue waffle you mostly find in women and partially in men

where it is a

would you rather questions the movie watching online program

movie hd

.It is informative blog.

powerplan is important for all.I think this is the best site amongst of above sites. Great tips and very easy to understand.I love volunteering here.

new year 2017

Happy diwali

report post as inappropriate

Make sure to take a look at the bottom of the Love your version of this pattern!

Make sure to take a look at the bottom of the homepage.

.Check out the most dangerous disease blue waffle you mostly find in women and partially in men

where it is a

would you rather questions the movie watching online program

movie hd

.It is informative blog.

powerplan is important for all.I think this is the best site amongst of above sites. Great tips and very easy to understand.I love volunteering here.

new year 2017

Happy diwali

report post as inappropriate

Make sure to take a look at the bottom of the homepage.

.Check out the most dangerous disease blue waffle you mostly find in women and partially in men

where it is a

would you rather questions the movie watching online program

movie hd

.It is informative blog.

powerplan is important for all.I think this is the best site amongst of above sites. Great tips and very easy to understand.I love volunteering here.

new year 2017

Happy diwali

report post as inappropriate

It is very nice to read such a wonderful blog with the informative post.I like the way you present the content and your interest on this thing.Flekstore is the latest app to get paid apps for free.Flekstore for ios 9.3.2 to customize ios device without jailbreaking your device.

report post as inappropriate

report post as inappropriate

Kunjungi Kami ::

Agen Ace Maxs @ http://ardiherbal.com/

Obat Batu Empedu @ http://obatbatuempedu.net/

Obat Lepra Tradisional @ http://obatlepratradisional.com/

Obat Kelenjar Getah Bening Di Leher @ http://obatkelenjargetahbeningdileher.web.id/

Obat Luka Borok Bernanah Dan Berair @ http://www.obatlukaborokbernanahdanberair.com/

Pusat Produk Herbal @ http://www.pusatprodukherbal.com/

Penjual QnC Jelly Gamat @ http://www.penjualqncjellygamat.com/

Thanks.....

report post as inappropriate

Agen Ace Maxs @ http://ardiherbal.com/

Obat Batu Empedu @ http://obatbatuempedu.net/

Obat Lepra Tradisional @ http://obatlepratradisional.com/

Obat Kelenjar Getah Bening Di Leher @ http://obatkelenjargetahbeningdileher.web.id/

Obat Luka Borok Bernanah Dan Berair @ http://www.obatlukaborokbernanahdanberair.com/

Pusat Produk Herbal @ http://www.pusatprodukherbal.com/

Penjual QnC Jelly Gamat @ http://www.penjualqncjellygamat.com/

Thanks.....

report post as inappropriate

show my article:

Cara Menghilangkan Bintik Merah Pada Kulit Sampai Tuntas @ http://www.pusatprodukherbal.com/cara-menghilangkan-bintik-m

erah-pada-kulit-sampai-tuntas/

Pengobatan Alternatif Jantung Lemah Sampai Tuntas @ http://nitaagenjellygamatqnc7.blogspot.com/2016/10/pengobata

n-alternatif-jantung-lemah.html

Obat Tradisional Penurun Lemak Darah Cepat dan Aman @ http://kedaiginkgobilobapluscapsule7.blogspot.com/2016/09/ob

at-tradisional-penurun-lemak-darah.html

Obat Benjolan di atas payudara @ http://www.obatlukaborokbernanahdanberair.com/2016/03/obat-b

enjolan-di-atas-payudara-terampuh.html

Cara paling ampuh mengempeskan benjolan di vagina @ http://obatkelenjargetahbeningdileher.web.id/cara-paling-amp

uh-mengempeskan-benjolan-di-vagina/

Obat tradisional lambung berarah yang manjur @ http://www.penjualqncjellygamat.com/obat-tradisional-lambung

-berdarah-yang-manjur/

Thanks.......

report post as inappropriate

Cara Menghilangkan Bintik Merah Pada Kulit Sampai Tuntas @ http://www.pusatprodukherbal.com/cara-menghilangkan-bintik-m

erah-pada-kulit-sampai-tuntas/

Pengobatan Alternatif Jantung Lemah Sampai Tuntas @ http://nitaagenjellygamatqnc7.blogspot.com/2016/10/pengobata

n-alternatif-jantung-lemah.html

Obat Tradisional Penurun Lemak Darah Cepat dan Aman @ http://kedaiginkgobilobapluscapsule7.blogspot.com/2016/09/ob

at-tradisional-penurun-lemak-darah.html

Obat Benjolan di atas payudara @ http://www.obatlukaborokbernanahdanberair.com/2016/03/obat-b

enjolan-di-atas-payudara-terampuh.html

Cara paling ampuh mengempeskan benjolan di vagina @ http://obatkelenjargetahbeningdileher.web.id/cara-paling-amp

uh-mengempeskan-benjolan-di-vagina/

Obat tradisional lambung berarah yang manjur @ http://www.penjualqncjellygamat.com/obat-tradisional-lambung

-berdarah-yang-manjur/

Thanks.......

report post as inappropriate

My article:

Cara Menyembuhkan Asam Lambung Berlebih Sampai Tuntas @ http://www.pusatprodukherbal.com/cara-menyembuhkan-asam-lamb

ung-berlebih-sampai-tuntas/

Khasiat Gastric Health Untuk Menurunkan Asam Lambung @ http://www.obatasamuratalami.net/khasiat-gastric-health-untu

k-menurunkan-asam-lambung/

Cara Menyembuhkan Infeksi Kurap Di Kaki Secara Alami @ http://www.penjualqncjellygamat.com/cara-menyembuhkan-infeks

i-kurap-di-kaki-secara-alami/

Obat Paling Ampuh Mengatasi Perut Kembung @ http://ardiherbal.com/obat-paling-ampuh-mengatasi-perut-kemb

ung/

Obat Gagal Ginjal Dari Bahan Herbal @ http://obatkelenjargetahbeningdileher.web.id/obat-gagal-ginj

al-dari-bahan-herbal/

Cara Pesan QnC Jelly Gamat @ http://www.obatlukaborokbernanahdanberair.com/p/cara-pesan-q

nc-jelly-gamat.html

Thanks.......

report post as inappropriate

Cara Menyembuhkan Asam Lambung Berlebih Sampai Tuntas @ http://www.pusatprodukherbal.com/cara-menyembuhkan-asam-lamb

ung-berlebih-sampai-tuntas/

Khasiat Gastric Health Untuk Menurunkan Asam Lambung @ http://www.obatasamuratalami.net/khasiat-gastric-health-untu

k-menurunkan-asam-lambung/

Cara Menyembuhkan Infeksi Kurap Di Kaki Secara Alami @ http://www.penjualqncjellygamat.com/cara-menyembuhkan-infeks

i-kurap-di-kaki-secara-alami/

Obat Paling Ampuh Mengatasi Perut Kembung @ http://ardiherbal.com/obat-paling-ampuh-mengatasi-perut-kemb

ung/

Obat Gagal Ginjal Dari Bahan Herbal @ http://obatkelenjargetahbeningdileher.web.id/obat-gagal-ginj

al-dari-bahan-herbal/

Cara Pesan QnC Jelly Gamat @ http://www.obatlukaborokbernanahdanberair.com/p/cara-pesan-q

nc-jelly-gamat.html

Thanks.......

report post as inappropriate

My article:

http://www.pusatprodukherbal.com/cara-menyembuhkan-asam-lamb

ung-berlebih-sampai-tuntas/

http://www.obatasamuratalami.net/khasiat-gastric-health-untu

k-menurunkan-asam-lambung/

http://www.penjualqncjellygamat.co

m/cara-menyembuhkan-infeksi-kurap-di-kaki-secara-alami/

http:

//ardiherbal.com/obat-paling-ampuh-mengatasi-perut-kembung/

h

ttp://obatkelenjargetahbeningdileher.web.id/obat-gagal-ginja

l-dari-bahan-herbal/

http://www.obatlukaborokbernanahdanberai

r.com/p/cara-pesan-qnc-jelly-gamat.html

Thanks.......

report post as inappropriate

http://www.pusatprodukherbal.com/cara-menyembuhkan-asam-lamb

ung-berlebih-sampai-tuntas/

http://www.obatasamuratalami.net/khasiat-gastric-health-untu

k-menurunkan-asam-lambung/

http://www.penjualqncjellygamat.co

m/cara-menyembuhkan-infeksi-kurap-di-kaki-secara-alami/

http:

//ardiherbal.com/obat-paling-ampuh-mengatasi-perut-kembung/

h

ttp://obatkelenjargetahbeningdileher.web.id/obat-gagal-ginja

l-dari-bahan-herbal/

http://www.obatlukaborokbernanahdanberai

r.com/p/cara-pesan-qnc-jelly-gamat.html

Thanks.......

report post as inappropriate

It's very nice to see my all creative mates here in this fantastic blog. WhatsApp is now top the market with latest whatsapp video calling. Get Latest WhatsApp Video Calling Apk to make awesome super quality calls in world most messaging application whatsapp.

report post as inappropriate

report post as inappropriate

Nice to see such a wonderful stuff here. Terrarium TV App is the latest best app to watch latest movies for free. Terrarium TV Download from here to get unlimited movies stuff.

report post as inappropriate

report post as inappropriate

Thanks for sharing the post. This is a wonderful and amazing article.I am very glad to be here.Thanks for sharing.

Vmware Coupon codes

report post as inappropriate

Vmware Coupon codes

report post as inappropriate

Great information it is very useful for our house.I really impress to reading this article thanks for sharing this nice article.

Vmware Coupon codes

report post as inappropriate

Vmware Coupon codes

report post as inappropriate

That superb informative post you have given to us. Hipstore is paid apps store app like vShare. HiPStore app is much better than any app as its facing very less issues than any other app. Download HiPStore for iOS 10 to download and install paid apps for free.

report post as inappropriate

report post as inappropriate

Terrarium tv, the streaming app for android smartphone to download and stream online movies and tv shows for free in full HD quality.

Regard

Terrarium TV App Download

report post as inappropriate

Regard

Terrarium TV App Download

report post as inappropriate

[url=http://terrariumtv.org]Terrarium TV Download[/url] forget to mention this link. Visit for here

report post as inappropriate

report post as inappropriate

Visited:

Obat Osteoporosis Herbal @ http://obat1jutapenyakit.blogspot.com/2013/06/obat-herbal-os

teoporosis.html

Obat Mioma Tradisional @ http://obatbronkitistradisionalpalingampuh19.blogspot.com/20

13/09/obat-mioma-tradisional.html

Obat Abses Anus Tradisional @ http://www.penjualqncjellygamat.com/obat-abses-anus-tradisio

nal-termanjur/

Thanks...

report post as inappropriate

Obat Osteoporosis Herbal @ http://obat1jutapenyakit.blogspot.com/2013/06/obat-herbal-os

teoporosis.html

Obat Mioma Tradisional @ http://obatbronkitistradisionalpalingampuh19.blogspot.com/20

13/09/obat-mioma-tradisional.html

Obat Abses Anus Tradisional @ http://www.penjualqncjellygamat.com/obat-abses-anus-tradisio

nal-termanjur/

Thanks...

report post as inappropriate

Exquisitely professional thoughts. I merely hit upon this web site and desired to enunciate that I've definitely delighted in reckoning your blog articles or blog posts. Rest assured I'll subsist pledging to your RSS and I wish you write-up after much more shortly 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.1

report post as inappropriate

report post as inappropriate

Login or create account to post reply or comment.