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RECENT POSTS IN THIS TOPIC

Pentcho Valev: on 2/22/15 at 9:05am UTC, wrote Heat Engines Violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics Violations of the...

Pentcho Valev: on 1/14/15 at 7:21am UTC, wrote The dissociation-association reaction above is: A = B + C A dissociates...

Pentcho Valev: on 1/13/15 at 19:27pm UTC, wrote The second law of thermodynamics is almost obviously false for chemical...

Pentcho Valev: on 1/12/15 at 18:11pm UTC, wrote Again: Published descriptions of perpetual motion machines of the second...

Pentcho Valev: on 11/20/14 at 17:24pm UTC, wrote Perpetual motion machines of the second kind published in prestigious...

Pentcho Valev: on 11/18/14 at 17:19pm UTC, wrote Sadi Carnot : Why Is a Cold Body Necessary ? If a heat engine converts...

Pentcho Valev: on 5/8/14 at 16:05pm UTC, wrote The second law of thermodynamics is no longer valid but... who cares? ...

Pentcho Valev: on 5/6/14 at 19:24pm UTC, wrote Is Thermodynamics Dead? Electricity generated from ambient heat across a...



FQXi FORUM
March 25, 2017

ARTICLE: Video Article: Embracing Complexity [back to article]
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S Halayka wrote on Nov. 7, 2012 @ 00:57 GMT
Maybe the Hutterites are on to something ...

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Allan and Sonia Hills wrote on Nov. 12, 2012 @ 01:31 GMT
Congratulations Raissa. This sounds wonderful! Please let us know when the stock market is about to transition and in which direction. Seriously though, climate change might be a good field for this kind of analysis. Cheers, Allan & Sonia

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Georgina Parry wrote on Nov. 12, 2012 @ 03:45 GMT
Really interesting talk, lots to think about. The fleeting comments on exponential population growth and of wild fluctuations near the end is the really important bit, never mind people getting bored with their Facebook information overload. Vast impending problems. Seems it is in part the uniformity that permits connection that is also a vulnerability. Like agricultural monocultures that have lost the resilience to disease afforded by natural variation.

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Georgina Parry replied on Nov. 23, 2012 @ 20:55 GMT
I like the association of time with the growth of the complexity of the systems.

It seems to me there is that kind of time associated with any kind or growth or senescence and decay, or dismantling. It is a very different kind of time to the time dimension of space-time though. As it does not have the same association with space that forms the 'fabric of space-time'. It could be imagined as a time line where the structures (or systems) are arranged in increasing or decreasing complexity, giving the historical sequence of arrangements. However only the youngest arrangement still exists. (Though it may incorporate an 'older' arrangement as part of its structure.) That historical time line is an imaginary thing and not something melded with space.

Which means there are two importantly different kinds of time that are parts of different aspects, or types, of reality and should not be muddled. There are not two different geometric time dimensions. There is only one. That one is associated with the potential sensory data in the environment from which space-time manifestations can be produced. There is continual change associated with the material aspect of the Universe, giving passage of time and the effect of a one way arrow of time (which are missing from the space-time continuum).

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Georgina Parry replied on Nov. 26, 2012 @ 23:10 GMT
Cambridge University is to launch a centre for the study of existential risks to the human race Quote: "But new hazards are emerging that could be so catastrophic that even a tiny probability is disquieting. For instance, global society depends on elaborate networks - electricity grids, air traffic control, international finance, just-in-time delivery and so forth. Unless these systems are highly resilient, their manifest benefits could be outweighed by catastrophic (albeit rare) breakdowns cascading through the system." The Guardian

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Thomas Howard Ray wrote on Nov. 19, 2012 @ 16:03 GMT
"So we're at the point where we can begin to analyze systems of systems," says D'Souza, each evolving on its own timescale, with feedbacks between these systems."

Exactly so. And I think we're finding further -- as Raissa's research suggests -- that assuring the independence of systems within systems is becoming increasingly important to avoid the kind of out of control degradation of an interdependent system that Battiston's group identified.

It's long been presumed that " ... bounded rationality -- i.e., individual human (or, abstractly, individual node)limitations to acquire sufficient information for central control decisions might be solved or mitigated by information technology integrated vertically into the system (hierarchical up and down, rather than lateral, communication ).

"Bar-Yam reveals that distributed control -- lateral information -- increases variety. Increased variety increases the coordination strength of the network; i.e., 'In considering the requirements of multi-scale variety more generally, we can state that for a system to be effective, it must be able to coordinate the right number of components to serve each task, while allowing the independence of other sets of components to perform their respective tasks without binding the actions of one such set to another.' * [Ray, T. NECSI ICCS 2007, "Time, Change and Self Organization] * Bar-Yam, Y. "Multiscale Variety in Complex Systems." Complexity vol 9, no 4, pp 37-45

Thanks, Grace, Raissa and FQXi for another great informative article on the leading edge of research.

Tom

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DR. EDWARD SIEGEL wrote on Nov. 6, 2013 @ 21:59 GMT
SO-MISCALLED "COMPLEXITY" IS UTTER-SIMPLICITY!!! (VERSUS COMPLICATEDNESS)

UNIVERSALLY OBSERVED IN SO-MISCALLED "COMPLEXITY" ARE 1/f-"NOISE" ~(FLUCTUATION-DISSIPATION THEOREM) ~ GENERALIZED-SUSCEPTIBILITY POWER-SPECTRUM AND SCALE-INVARIANCE.

PARAPHRASING(SEE FIRST ATTACHMENT!!!) SIEGEL'S 1993 DEFINITION OF SO-MISCALLED "COMPLEXITY" AS UTTER-SIMPLICITY!!!:

(d/dx)log x = 1/x

HENCE

(d/dw)log w = 1/w

BUT THE LOGARITHM-FUNCTION IS BY DEFINITION SCALE-INVARIANCE. SO

(d/dw)[SCALE-INVARIANCE SYMMETRY-RESTORING](w) = 1/w

HENCE BY NOETHER'S-THEOREM RELATING CONTINUOUS-SYMMETRIES TO CONSERVATION-LAWS

(d/dw)[EINSTEIN SUMMATION CONVENTION{d[sub-mu]J[super-mu;sub-SCALE](w)}] = 1/w

THUS SO-MISCALLED "COMPLEXITY" IS THE 1/f POWER-SPECTRUM INSURANCE THAT SCALE-INVARIANCE IS CONSERVED; FROM MICRO VIA MESO TO MACRO AND FROM MACRO VIA MESO TO MICRO. UTTER-SIMPLICITY!!!

ANYTHING ELSE SUCH AS ONE'S MOTHER-IN-LAW AND 1/f POWER-SPECTRUM AND SCALE-INVARIANCE IS COMPLICATEDNESS!!!

attachments: 1_FULL_PAPER_on_so_MIScalled_COMPLEXITY_IS_UTTER-SIMPLICITY_vs._COMPLICATEDNESS.pdf, FULL_PAPER_on_NEWTONS-LAW_INVERSE-TRANSFORM_IN_1-OVER-f_NOISE.pdf

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Pentcho Valev wrote on Dec. 11, 2013 @ 19:10 GMT
Emergence of Macroscopic Directed Motion in Water Systems

"A team of researchers from several facilities in France has devised a means for modeling coordinated swarming behavior in a controlled environment. (...) To get the balls moving the researchers applied a small electric charge. Doing so caused chaotic movement at first, but as time passed, the researchers observed that the balls formed a swarm that moved around the track as a single entity."

Emergence of macroscopic directed motion in populations of motile colloids, Antoine Bricard, Jean-Baptiste Caussin, Nicolas Desreumaux, Olivier Dauchot, Denis Bartolo, Nature 503, 9598 (07 November 2013)

I suggest that the microscopic mechanism triggering the swarm moving "around the track as a single entity" may be similar to that triggering the "waterfall" described in an old paper of mine:

August 12, 2004, Biased Thermal Motion and the Second Law of Thermodynamics, Pentcho Valev: "What if one punches a small hole in one of the plates, just above the surface of the pool? Will the lifted water leak through the hole and fall, thereby dissipating its potential energy as heat? If this happens, one will have a perpetual macroscopic cycle capable of producing work. Needless to say, such a cycle contradicts the second law of thermodynamics. No matter how weak the waterfall is, theoretically it can rotate a waterwheel..."

The "floating water bridge" is based on the same molecular mechanism:

Floating Water Bridge - Elmar Fuchs (SETI Talks)

Pentcho Valev

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Pentcho Valev replied on Dec. 12, 2013 @ 08:50 GMT
Emergence of Macroscopic Directed Motion in Water Systems II

AIP Conf. Proc. 643, pp. 430-435, Pentcho Valev, 2002: "...as two vertical constant-charge capacitor plates partially dip into a pool of a liquid dielectric (e.g. water), the liquid between them rises high above the surface of the rest of the liquid in the pool. Evidently, if one punches a macroscopic hole in one of the plates,...

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Pentcho Valev replied on Dec. 14, 2013 @ 18:40 GMT
There is a problem in physics that acts like the face of Medusa the Gorgon - on seeing it, physicists get petrified and remain so until the problem is completely forgotten. If a constant-charge parallel-plate capacitor is totally immersed in a liquid dielectric, e.g. water, the force of attraction between the plates SHARPLY DECREASES - for water, it becomes 80 times weaker. However, if instead of...

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Pentcho Valev wrote on Dec. 19, 2013 @ 20:45 GMT
An Easily Refutable Version of the Second Law of Thermodynamics

For a closed system (exchanges energy but not matter with the surroundings) the first law of thermodynamics defines the internal energy change, dU, to be:

dU = dQ - dW = dQ - FdX /1/

where dQ is the heat absorbed, dW is the work done by the system on the surroundings, F>0 is the work-producing force and dX...

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Pentcho Valev replied on Dec. 22, 2013 @ 18:15 GMT
An Easily Refutable Version of the Second Law of Thermodynamics II

In 1824 Sadi Carnot deduced the second law of thermodynamics from a postulate that went against the future law of conservation of energy (the first law of thermodynamics). Here is an oversimplified but consonant with the quotations below presentation of (part of) Carnot's 1824 argument:

Postulate: Heat is an...

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Pentcho Valev wrote on Mar. 7, 2014 @ 16:06 GMT
Perpetuum Mobile of the Second Kind ?

Consider FIG. 1 and FIG. 2 in:

Can. J . Phys., 60. 449 (1982), Fluids in electric and magnetic fields: Pressure variation and stability, I. BREVIK: "FIG. 1. Two charged condenser plates partly immersed in a dielectric liquid. (...) FIG. 2. The hydrostatic pressure variation from point 1 to point 5 in Fig. 1."

FIG. 2 shows that the hydrostatic pressure between the plates of the capacitor is much greater than that in the rest of the liquid. Therefore, if we punch a small hole in one of the plates, somewhere between "3" and "2" in FIG. 1, water will constantly flow through the hole, pushed by the pressure between the plates. The resulting waterfall outside the capacitor can, in principle, rotate a wheel...

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Pentcho Valev replied on Apr. 18, 2014 @ 16:20 GMT
Perpetuum mobile of the second kind published in a respectable journal:

Electricity generated from ambient heat across a silicon surface, Guoan Tai, Zihan Xu and Jinsong Liu, Appl. Phys. Lett. 103, 163902 (2013). ABSTRACT: "We report generation of electricity from the limitless thermal motion of ions across a two-dimensional (2D) silicon (Si) surface at room temperature. (...) This finding provides a self-charging technology for energy harvesting from ambient heat."

An earlier version of the paper:

"However, this finding does not agree with the second law of thermodynamics, which limits the utilization of the random thermal motion of ions to be spontaneously collected to produce electricity. We cannot explain why either this experiment or the previous experiment of graphene did not agree with the traditional theory. More research will be required to fully understand this phenomenon."

Pentcho Valev

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Pentcho Valev replied on May. 6, 2014 @ 19:24 GMT
Is Thermodynamics Dead?

Electricity generated from ambient heat across a silicon surface, Guoan Tai, Zihan Xu, and Jinsong Liu, Appl. Phys. Lett. 103, 163902 (2013): "We report generation of electricity from the limitless thermal motion of ions across a two-dimensional (2D) silicon (Si) surface at room temperature. (...) ...limitless ambient heat, which is universally present in the form of...

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Pentcho Valev replied on May. 8, 2014 @ 16:05 GMT
The second law of thermodynamics is no longer valid but... who cares?

"...electronic devices can charge their batteries through various methods without being plugged into a source of electricity. What all the different methods have in common is that they absorb energy that is in some other form (heat, light, vibrations, radio waves, etc.) from the external environment and then convert the energy into electrochemical energy that is stored in the device's batteries. (...) The ambient heat in the natural environment can be captured and converted to electricity. There are many ways to do this, but the basic concept is to funnel the random thermal motion of ions or electrons into a more ordered motion of charge, which constitutes an electrical current. This funneling is often accomplished by layering various materials with different thermal and electrical properties. For instance, the researchers Guoan Tai, Zihan Xu, and Jinsong Liu have recently demonstrated the conversion of heat to electricity using the ion layer that forms between silicon and a copper(II) chloride solution."

Needless to say, professors in universities will continue to teach the false second law - the truth may be valuable but money is more valuable.

Pentcho Valev

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Pentcho Valev wrote on Nov. 18, 2014 @ 17:19 GMT
Sadi Carnot : Why Is a Cold Body Necessary ?

If a heat engine converts heat into work under isothermal conditions (no cold reservoir, only a hot one), the second law of thermodynamics is violated. Unpublished notes written in the period 1824-1832 reveal that, at the end of his (short) life, Carnot discovered the first law of thermodynamics and immediately started doubting the second:...

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Pentcho Valev replied on Nov. 20, 2014 @ 17:24 GMT
Perpetual motion machines of the second kind published in prestigious journals and no reaction at all from the scientific community (science is dead?):

Electricity generated from ambient heat across a silicon surface, Guoan Tai, Zihan Xu, and Jinsong Liu, Appl. Phys. Lett. 103, 163902 (2013): "We report generation of electricity from the limitless thermal motion of ions across a...

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Pentcho Valev replied on Jan. 12, 2015 @ 18:11 GMT
Again: Published descriptions of perpetual motion machines of the second kind (no reaction at all in the scientific community):

Electricity generated from ambient heat across a silicon surface, Guoan Tai, Zihan Xu, and Jinsong Liu, Appl. Phys. Lett. 103, 163902 (2013): "We report generation of electricity from the limitless thermal motion of ions across a two-dimensional (2D) silicon (Si)...

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Pentcho Valev replied on Jan. 13, 2015 @ 19:27 GMT
The second law of thermodynamics is almost obviously false for chemical systems. Consider the (valid) argument that, if catalysts can shift chemical equilibrium, the second law would be violated:

"In the presence of a catalyst, both the forward and reverse reaction rates will speed up equally, thereby allowing the system to reach equilibrium faster. However, it is very important to keep in mind that the addition of a catalyst has no effect whatsoever on the final equilibrium position of the reaction. It simply gets it there faster. (...) To reiterate, catalysts do not affect the equilibrium state of a reaction. In the presence of a catalyst, the same amounts of reactants and products will be present at equilibrium as there would be in the uncatalyzed reaction. To state this in chemical terms, catalysts affect the kinetics, but not the thermodynamics, of a reaction. If the addition of catalysts could possibly alter the equilibrium state of the reaction, this would violate the second rule of thermodynamics..."

It is evident that, for the dissociation-association reaction

A B + C,

a catalyst cannot speed up both the forward and reverse reaction rates equally, due to the entirely different forward and reverse catalytic mechanisms. In the forward (dissociation) reaction, the catalyst should just meet and split A. In the reverse (association) reaction, the catalyst should first get together B and C, which, if the diffusion factor is predominant, could be highly improbable.

Catalysts do shift chemical equilibrium, in violation of the second law of thermodynamics.

I have started the same discussion (and it has developed in an interesting way) here:

Chemical Thermodynamics - Second Law / Entropy Review

Pentcho Valev

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Pentcho Valev wrote on Jan. 14, 2015 @ 07:21 GMT
The dissociation-association reaction above is:

A = B + C

A dissociates into B and C, and B and C recombine to give A.

Pentcho Valev

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Pentcho Valev wrote on Feb. 22, 2015 @ 09:05 GMT
Heat Engines Violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics

Violations of the second law of thermodynamics would be obvious if it were not for misleading education of this kind:

"A necessary component of a heat engine, then, is that two temperatures are involved. At one stage the system is heated, at another it is cooled."

This is simply not true. There are heat engines...

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